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NHL 20 - Goalie threat Analysis

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EA_Roger
1483 posts EA Community Manager
edited July 2019
In EA SPORTS NHL 20 goaltenders now have the tools they need to take control of the game.

In NHL 19, goalies did not have an expansive tool set to control the puck - too often resulting in soft rebounds and scoring chances. In NHL 20, goalies in position and in control, will have the ability to take over the game with all-new controlled saves, redirects and a whole new suite of covers. Additionally, AI controlled goalies are more aware of threats on the ice, impacting their positioning and how they handle the puck.


NEW CONTROLLED SAVES AND REDIRECTS
In the past goalies would play blocking saves with their body regardless of how easy the puck was to handle or how prepared they were. Now based on a goalie’s skill (attributes), how in control/position they are before a shot arrives and the reaction time they have (speed/distance of the shot) they can make controlled saves to hang on to a puck, pinning it against their chest, collapsing in to hang on in their mid-section or making a more controlled glove save so that they can avoid giving up a rebound and control the play. Goalies can then choose to hang on or play the puck if they have enough control and it’s viable from where/how they pinned/hung onto the puck.

nhl20-rinne-wm-1920x1080.jpg.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.jpg

In addition to controlled saves, goalies now have the ability to control the outcome and redirect a puck depending on the situation. The ability to redirect the puck with control will be based on a goalies attributes, how in control they are, and the reaction time they have in each situation. In the past goalies could kick out juicy rebounds, even on pucks that were slower on net that they could have controlled. You will now see goalies use their sticks, leg pads and blocker to control and send the rebound away from danger (i.e. a stick redirect up into the corner glass, a blocker punching the puck out away from danger, or a leg pad kicking the puck out to the corner or out in front depending on where the incoming opponent threat is).

With these new tools, goalie differentiation by skill will be even more apparent. Some of the best goalies will be able to hang on to or direct harder shots with little reaction time away while weaker goalies may still give up juicy rebounds on shots they could have handled.

NEW COVER SYSTEM
NHL 20 introduces a whole new suite of covers for goalies, adding to their overall coverage by giving them the ability to cover the puck out of more positions. Goalies can also now resolve covers without having to reset and start again, making them more responsive in the mechanic. They are more authentic and responsive in their animations by being increasingly direct to the puck, and in the postures they use to protect the puck and themselves.

Goalies also have unique covers from butterfly, dropping down from standing set positions, reverse VH on both sides, VH from both sides, hug post from both sides, and new covers from various desperation saves. Additionally, goalies can cover the puck with their glove or pin the puck against the side of the net with their stick or blocker.

THREAT ANALYSIS
AI goaltenders in NHL 20 are more aware of threats around them, impacting their positioning and their ability to deal with different scenarios. AI goalies will be more aware of the threat of the puck carrier to score, impacting when and how they challenge the shooter vs. stay deeper in their net. This will lessen the chance of over-committing when the only threat is a pass or shot for a rebound. As the puck carrier becomes more dangerous, getting in closer to the middle of the ice and the net, especially if the player is on their forehand, you will see goalies challenge them more aggressively, increasing the need for the puck carrier to move the puck to open up a better scoring chance.

nhl20-quick-wm-1920x1080.jpg.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.jpg

Goalies positioning and aggressiveness to track the puck and cut down on shooting angles will also be impacted by their teammates defensive positioning. Defensive AI has been updated to add more logic to identify the threat of the puck carrier to have a good chance to score with a shot. This may change their defensive positioning to stay closer to goal side than the direct passing lane. This allows them to gauge whether a rebound threat is more dangerous than a pass to a player with a weaker one-timer. As the one timer threat becomes more viable, the defensive players position will be tighter and heavily favor the direct passing lane.

These improvements will narrow the windows in which the offense has to make choices and will increase the need to work for good shooting positions and passing lanes, ultimately leading to more earned goals.

Replies

  • How well does this translate to Human controlled netminders? Has any work been done specifically in terms of human goalie improvements?
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    One would think the improved deflections and covers would work for human goalies too?
  • Socair
    2737 posts Game Changer
    edited July 2019
    How well does this translate to Human controlled netminders? Has any work been done specifically in terms of human goalie improvements?
    Human G’s will have same changes 😁. Well, aside from the threat analysis.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    One would think the improved deflections and covers would work for human goalies too?

    It should, yes. However, that isn't really the issue with human goalies for the most part except for the cheesy rebound that we all know.

    The issue is how clunky human goalies move around and that we can't move after a save until the goalie has completely recovered from his initial save. We cannot follow through with our rebounds to better track the puck after a save.

    I too am super curious how all this or anything else affects human goalies, but for some reason they never talk about it or include any of it in their trailers. If you are gonna talk about goalies, then please encompass all it entails and not just a cherry picked portion of it....
  • RayFinkle1515
    352 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    One would think the improved deflections and covers would work for human goalies too?

    Not necessarily an automatic relation though. For example: Puck covers for human goalies were atrocious in 19. I changed between auto and manual covers a few times this year to try and get it right. Too many times with auto on my goalie would jump down to cover and just completely miss the puck. Same thing with manual, or you would get the hungry hungry hippo animation when the puck was right by your pad. Rebound control had a lot to do with positioning but a lot of times it was a toss up too.

    Saying they reworked goalies is great, but it doesnt mean it 100% translates well to a human G. I wanted to know if any work was done specifically with human goalies and these changes. Or if these changes translated well to human goalies. My first impression is that playing goalie won't feel much different from 19 to 20 because I get a sense a lot of these changes were geared to AI goalies.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    One would think the improved deflections and covers would work for human goalies too?

    Not necessarily an automatic relation though. For example: Puck covers for human goalies were atrocious in 19. I changed between auto and manual covers a few times this year to try and get it right. Too many times with auto on my goalie would jump down to cover and just completely miss the puck. Same thing with manual, or you would get the hungry hungry hippo animation when the puck was right by your pad. Rebound control had a lot to do with positioning but a lot of times it was a toss up too.

    Saying they reworked goalies is great, but it doesnt mean it 100% translates well to a human G. I wanted to know if any work was done specifically with human goalies and these changes. Or if these changes translated well to human goalies. My first impression is that playing goalie won't feel much different from 19 to 20 because I get a sense a lot of these changes were geared to AI goalies.

    Well, human goalies get all the same animations as AI goalies, so I am not too worried about covering up the puck like past years. I am more worried about general movement and fluidity than anything else. Animation and/or save selection is slightly worrisome too, but a little less than general movement.
  • Follisimo
    1120 posts Member
    While the rebound control should be a nice feature for human goalies I still feel with the fixing of shot animations for players that is gonna open up another bag of worms to bring havoc. Now gotta fear the backhand tap in goals on cross creases more.

    As for CPU goalies...especially in HUT. Aggression ruins so many high overall goalies because they play too crazy. Low aggression seems to allow them for cross creases easier. High aggression allows for more snipe shots imo. 80-90 is around like ideal aggression for a goalie and hopefully next year in HUT the goalies who are actually 90+ will play like the studs they are supposed to play like.

  • As an offline only player, these improvements to the goalies sound fantastic.
    Just wish they would add goalie injuries in Franchise....
  • As an offline only player, these improvements to the goalies sound fantastic.
    Just wish they would add goalie injuries in Franchise....

    They have them, but only in simmed games. I would like to see the odd goalie injury during a played game.
  • As an offline only player, these improvements to the goalies sound fantastic.
    Just wish they would add goalie injuries in Franchise....

    If I compare nhl19+FinalGoldenSliders+tuner1.02 there is the same goalie reaction. Trailer is not showing nothing more. It is not bad, because the goalie from nhl19 is the best, I love him :)
    The problem with nhl19 is only with the speed of the game is changing the game absolutely.
    My slider for speed of the game is on number 5+ slider with speed of the shot is 35. With this combination you can see the same goalie reaction how nhl20 is do present+more polish .The same you can not rebound any puck so easy now. The same you can see the same saves sometimes.
    Nothing new with the offline gameplay sounds good for me.

    I think, the gameplay can be better more if the nhl20 is include double slider set. Yes, the game need more sliders if there is more animations added.
  • Socair wrote: »
    How well does this translate to Human controlled netminders? Has any work been done specifically in terms of human goalie improvements?
    Human G’s will have same changes 😁. Well, aside from the threat analysis.

    Have an idea when anyone will be allowed to talk about this? Or when EA will release some info about it?

    And please, don't say the changes are going to be like 200 new pads or something along those lines :tongue:
  • EA_Roger wrote: »
    In EA SPORTS NHL 20 goaltenders now have the tools they need to take control of the game.

    In NHL 19, goalies did not have an expansive tool set to control the puck - too often resulting in soft rebounds and scoring chances. In NHL 20, goalies in position and in control, will have the ability to take over the game with all-new controlled saves, redirects and a whole new suite of covers. Additionally, AI controlled goalies are more aware of threats on the ice, impacting their positioning and how they handle the puck.


    NEW CONTROLLED SAVES AND REDIRECTS
    In the past goalies would play blocking saves with their body regardless of how easy the puck was to handle or how prepared they were. Now based on a goalie’s skill (attributes), how in control/position they are before a shot arrives and the reaction time they have (speed/distance of the shot) they can make controlled saves to hang on to a puck, pinning it against their chest, collapsing in to hang on in their mid-section or making a more controlled glove save so that they can avoid giving up a rebound and control the play. Goalies can then choose to hang on or play the puck if they have enough control and it’s viable from where/how they pinned/hung onto the puck.

    nhl20-rinne-wm-1920x1080.jpg.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.jpg

    In addition to controlled saves, goalies now have the ability to control the outcome and redirect a puck depending on the situation. The ability to redirect the puck with control will be based on a goalies attributes, how in control they are, and the reaction time they have in each situation. In the past goalies could kick out juicy rebounds, even on pucks that were slower on net that they could have controlled. You will now see goalies use their sticks, leg pads and blocker to control and send the rebound away from danger (i.e. a stick redirect up into the corner glass, a blocker punching the puck out away from danger, or a leg pad kicking the puck out to the corner or out in front depending on where the incoming opponent threat is).

    With these new tools, goalie differentiation by skill will be even more apparent. Some of the best goalies will be able to hang on to or direct harder shots with little reaction time away while weaker goalies may still give up juicy rebounds on shots they could have handled.

    NEW COVER SYSTEM
    NHL 20 introduces a whole new suite of covers for goalies, adding to their overall coverage by giving them the ability to cover the puck out of more positions. Goalies can also now resolve covers without having to reset and start again, making them more responsive in the mechanic. They are more authentic and responsive in their animations by being increasingly direct to the puck, and in the postures they use to protect the puck and themselves.

    Goalies also have unique covers from butterfly, dropping down from standing set positions, reverse VH on both sides, VH from both sides, hug post from both sides, and new covers from various desperation saves. Additionally, goalies can cover the puck with their glove or pin the puck against the side of the net with their stick or blocker.

    THREAT ANALYSIS
    AI goaltenders in NHL 20 are more aware of threats around them, impacting their positioning and their ability to deal with different scenarios. AI goalies will be more aware of the threat of the puck carrier to score, impacting when and how they challenge the shooter vs. stay deeper in their net. This will lessen the chance of over-committing when the only threat is a pass or shot for a rebound. As the puck carrier becomes more dangerous, getting in closer to the middle of the ice and the net, especially if the player is on their forehand, you will see goalies challenge them more aggressively, increasing the need for the puck carrier to move the puck to open up a better scoring chance.

    nhl20-quick-wm-1920x1080.jpg.adapt.crop16x9.1455w.jpg

    Goalies positioning and aggressiveness to track the puck and cut down on shooting angles will also be impacted by their teammates defensive positioning. Defensive AI has been updated to add more logic to identify the threat of the puck carrier to have a good chance to score with a shot. This may change their defensive positioning to stay closer to goal side than the direct passing lane. This allows them to gauge whether a rebound threat is more dangerous than a pass to a player with a weaker one-timer. As the one timer threat becomes more viable, the defensive players position will be tighter and heavily favor the direct passing lane.

    These improvements will narrow the windows in which the offense has to make choices and will increase the need to work for good shooting positions and passing lanes, ultimately leading to more earned goals.

    Just the new cover system alone is going to be huge. Massively needed and was more than due.

    Thanks @NHLDev for all the work done on goalies this year. We have yet to play it, but it seems like this alone will bring a much needed breath of fresh air to the series. Combined with the new pickups and pass receiving should make for much more fluid games.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Socair wrote: »
    How well does this translate to Human controlled netminders? Has any work been done specifically in terms of human goalie improvements?
    Human G’s will have same changes 😁. Well, aside from the threat analysis.

    I would be lying if I were to say that THIS doesn't scare the bejeebus outta me.

    As human goalies we don't have control over our limbs, only our positioning. Why WOULDN'T the game be using the SAME threat assessment as the AI goalies to determine what type of (correct) save animation to give us in any given situation?

    Already human goalies get boned because the game engine can't recognize the situation properly and ends up giving us the wrong save animation. Now in NHL 20 the AI goalies will but the human goalies won't, if I understand what you're saying?

    If this is true it's looking like a hard pass for me. More so because it's almost guaranteed that they will get nerfed within weeks of the game dropping, if not sooner.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Socair wrote: »
    How well does this translate to Human controlled netminders? Has any work been done specifically in terms of human goalie improvements?
    Human G’s will have same changes 😁. Well, aside from the threat analysis.

    I would be lying if I were to say that THIS doesn't scare the bejeebus outta me.

    As human goalies we don't have control over our limbs, only our positioning. Why WOULDN'T the game be using the SAME threat assessment as the AI goalies to determine what type of (correct) save animation to give us in any given situation?

    Already human goalies get boned because the game engine can't recognize the situation properly and ends up giving us the wrong save animation. Now in NHL 20 the AI goalies will but the human goalies won't, if I understand what you're saying?

    If this is true it's looking like a hard pass for me. More so because it's almost guaranteed that they will get nerfed within weeks of the game dropping, if not sooner.

    The threat analysis cannot transfer over to humans. Humans decide the threat therefore deep in the crease, or challenge the shooter. That is essentially what this new AI will do.

    Rebound control is where I am slightly worried. I am assuming we won't know when or how it will kick in. Just like when your goalie throws the puck behind the net with his stick, we have no warning when it will happen. It just happens when it does, which is annoying.

    There is supposedly some human goalie changes yet to be announced that a mod dropped here a couple days ago. I am pretty anxious to see when we get that info, if we do indeed get it before the beta.

    I am also very worried about the most probable goalie nerf that will ensue.


    Anyways, welcome back bud. Missed your input.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Well, to me threat assessment is part of the whole package, not just positioning, but the goalie engine's ability to decide what type of save to give us, which is something we just can't control.

    How many times have you been square to the shooter and the goalie just crumples like wet tissue paper and let the puck through? Or you're on one side of the net, you see the pass so you try to slide to the open side trying to block the shot only to have the goalie go into blocking save animation instead of throwing out an arm or a leg? Those type of things are part of the "threat assessment" human goalies need to have. Unless they decided to throw in my idea of allowing for a 'PRO' goalie control setup where we can use LS to move and RS to make direction saves? That would be cool and I'd welcome the challenge it would present: sure it'd be hard at first to time saves, but it would allow the human much more freedom to pick a save type rather than waiting for the game to pick one that's (mostly) wrong on most occasions.

    One thing I do like is the mention that goalies will be using their sticks more to make saves and redirect pucks safely out of harms way. I've been screaming for so long about this, it's nice if they finally put it in the game. As a real life goalie, I can't tell you how much more I've used my stick than my pads to stop pucks, so seeing this finally implemented gets a thumbs up from me (if it's done right).

    I don't know that I'm happy to "be back", but I'm here... for now.
  • I have zero faith in it. Especially with the stupid pre build classes that we are forced to use & useless perks that don't even do anything.
  • Bassani_97 wrote: »
    I have zero faith in it. Especially with the stupid pre build classes that we are forced to use & useless perks that don't even do anything.

    Way to be positive. Are you even going to try it out?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    There's positivity, and then there's naivety... Look, we've all seen this before time and time again. New game comes out, there's enough of a difference from last year's game, we all get really excited... And then a few weeks in we realize it's the same ol', same ol'.

    I mean, there IS a small chance that this is actually going to be THE year EA turns this around. But if you look back at the history of this game, chances are it's not going to happen. Not by a long shot.

    I'll give it a go when or if the BETA drops. But that's about it. I'm not gonna be like last year and get suckered into making a purchase because of it. Heck, even if the game DOES turn out to be good, NHL 19 left a VERY, very sour taste in my mouth. To the point where I'm going to wait this time. I couldn't wait to uninstall NHL 18 right after Christmas of that year. NHL 19, I seriously just UNINSTALLED the game in November, stopped playing LG for it for two month and a half. Came back to it late February... And done uninstalled it again two weeks ago, quit LG (again) because I just can't anymore...

    I'm going to give the devs time to either A) make the game better or B) completely ruin the game (again) through multiple patches. Let's see how it goes after a few months, then re-evaluate things. Because a 4 day BETA build and then a 10 hour pre-launch build test, is NOT going to give ME enough information to make an educated guess on where I'm going to spend my money.

    Any other game, I would put my money down NO question. Whether that's Formula One or NBA 2K or Gears of War. EA's NHL? Yeah, I'm gonna sit on it for a while... No sense in jumping the gun only to be disappointed. Again...

    I know the Devs work hard on the game, and it's a shame. But I gotta speak with my wallet this time. NHL 15, 16, 17, 18 I refused to purchase with my own money. I either got it as a gift, or I got it for free somehow (which I was very grateful for). NHL 19 was the first time since NHL 14 that I actually purchased the game full price on (or before) launch day. And I completely regretted it. It's not a thing about the devs skill or devotion to the game, but EA's commitment (or lack thereof) to this franchise. To the sport of Hockey. That's what I'm upset about.

    And I guess a lot of other people are too.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    There's positivity, and then there's naivety... Look, we've all seen this before time and time again. New game comes out, there's enough of a difference from last year's game, we all get really excited... And then a few weeks in we realize it's the same ol', same ol'.

    I'm going to give the devs time to either A) make the game better or B) completely ruin the game (again) through multiple patches. Let's see how it goes after a few months, then re-evaluate things. Because a 4 day BETA build and then a 10 hour pre-launch build test, is NOT going to give ME enough information to make an educated guess on where I'm going to spend my money.

    I am not buying every year from nhl14 too...
    I love nhl19 after time spended with sliders. I love offline season only.
    Online games are still not funny because no one is playing hockey.
    If anybody is playing still the same situation there is no different between CPU opponent. It is reason for offline season play only.

    I agree if the nhl20 devs will not build stabile, functional version little bit better nhl19. Until I will not buy this game.



  • Bassani_97 wrote: »
    I have zero faith in it. Especially with the stupid pre build classes that we are forced to use & useless perks that don't even do anything.

    Way to be positive. Are you even going to try it out?

    I've tried to be positive. But when the game literally gets worse every year, I mean, it speaks for itself does it not?
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