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NHL 20 CHEL NOTES - Deep dive


Follow Gurn Sumal, game modes producer for NHL 20 on his deep dive, check it out & discuss it here.

Serious feedback: open dialogue as this community wants this series to get back to its roots.

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I posted this feedback on my nhl 20 beta survey in the forums but just wanted to bring it here to open up discussion and hopefully have more of a chance for the developers to see this and recognize what is happening with the loyal fans and consumers of the Nhl series. The beta surveys that have been posted on the forums are overwhelmingly negative and most of the comments along with them show that fans have the same issues with this series and have had these issues for years with no effort put forth to address them.

I think you guys need to go back to your feedback for the last few years and implement some changes for many of the issues that the community has pointed out that hasn’t been addressed at all. Issues such as the coding in online vs/hut modes that changes team AI, stats and luck for one team positively and negatively for another team; checking a player twice, poke checking multiple times and stick lifting multiple times with no effect on the opposing player; Bouncing off of an attacking player when going in for a hit as if they had a magnetic force field around them because they are shielding the puck (especially near the boards, i don’t care how much the player is protecting the puck if you hit them right next to the boards they’re gonna lose the puck); the coding issue is obviously in play where team stats are increased or boosted and it is obvious when one can dominate on face offs in the first period then in the second period all of a sudden the same person can’t win a single face off and all of the sudden the opposing team is blocking every shot and the game seems like it’s doing everything to give the opposing player a chance to win or tie up the game and then the third period the face offs go back to the player dominating in the first period. It is entirely too predictable and it does not make for an enjoyable experience. The coding comes into play even more if you just hold onto the puck and stay behind your net or skate around with it increasing your puck possession time which boosts your teams offensive AI and allows you easier access to the offensive zone on a rush and your team offensive AI increases and 90% of the time you end up scoring because of the exploitation of the games coding that increases team stats mid game. It makes for a cheap experience and makes me not want to play this game anymore. It has been like this for many years now and the development team does not listen or is unwilling to change the coding of the game. You are losing customers this way. I think the last nhl games that i really enjoyed were nhl 14 where you actually had to be creative and it didn’t feel too much like you knew you were going to lose from the 8 minute mark of the first period because every single play was broken up and blocked by the AI or you put 48 shots on goal with the other player only registering 9 and you either lose or end up in a shootout because of the ridiculous coding and stat modifications mid game

Replies

  • NHL has the worst Ice Tilt of all sports games. Yes EA I said tilt. But to tell you the truth I am starting to believe maybe they are not lying when they said the game has no tilt. Why I believe that is because I dont think they code correctly a thing of tilt towards the weaker team. They cant fix issues this game has had since 2013. They have amazingly made this game worse every year so give a big round of applause for that success. EA go back and look at what EASHL great in 2009 til 2012. I had a facebook memory from 2013 on PS3 of a funny glitch video that happened and the games graphics barely look any different from 2019 on PS4. I'm done with this series until I see attributes brought back and Legend Card 3 and the game has a completely new Engine and is actually playable.
  • sgiz1
    509 posts Member
    The game was phenomenal up thru 2012, largest community ever, a cult! The game was flat out FUN! to play.

    Been a disaster ever since 2013 and here we are 7 years after going into 2020 and all this talk about new RPM tech skating, more control, better responsiveness, etc. = Lie!

    The game played sluggish, slow, delayed responses, etc. The only way to play this game is to head up ice early looking for turnovers and breakaways, that's not hockey!
  • G1ll1es
    38 posts Member
    Its not about ice tilt.. Its about a bad A.I system that helps provide fair play... Or as you all know it as game difficulty..

    Its impossible to change.. The game ans A.I will always choose to do what it thinks should happen on the cpu or even user controlled player..

    Just take a look at playing online vs.. Let go of your controller and watch your a.i change its style.. Im done..
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Its not about ice tilt.. Its about a bad A.I system that helps provide fair play... Or as you all know it as game difficulty..

    Its impossible to change.. The game ans A.I will always choose to do what it thinks should happen on the cpu or even user controlled player..

    Just take a look at playing online vs.. Let go of your controller and watch your a.i change its style.. Im done..


    Ok and that is really exploitable all you have to do is float around with one skater for a minute and not do anything and the game will begin to compensate (and over compensate) and your opponent will get shut down and because frustrated leaving you to just get the puck and score with your enhanced team. I’m done with the series until something can be done and less control is given to the AI. I can play all five of my skaters and play defense and break up plays all by myself i don’t need the computer AI doing it all and thats what i see my opponents doing until the AI gets them the puck and they have possession without any work
  • walsh8755
    22 posts Member
    edited July 29
    rblaze1988 wrote: »
    I posted this feedback on my nhl 20 beta survey in the forums but just wanted to bring it here to open up discussion and hopefully have more of a chance for the developers to see this and recognize what is happening with the loyal fans and consumers of the Nhl series. The beta surveys that have been posted on the forums are overwhelmingly negative and most of the comments along with them show that fans have the same issues with this series and have had these issues for years with no effort put forth to address them.

    I think you guys need to go back to your feedback for the last few years and implement some changes for many of the issues that the community has pointed out that hasn’t been addressed at all. Issues such as the coding in online vs/hut modes that changes team AI, stats and luck for one team positively and negatively for another team; checking a player twice, poke checking multiple times and stick lifting multiple times with no effect on the opposing player; Bouncing off of an attacking player when going in for a hit as if they had a magnetic force field around them because they are shielding the puck (especially near the boards, i don’t care how much the player is protecting the puck if you hit them right next to the boards they’re gonna lose the puck); the coding issue is obviously in play where team stats are increased or boosted and it is obvious when one can dominate on face offs in the first period then in the second period all of a sudden the same person can’t win a single face off and all of the sudden the opposing team is blocking every shot and the game seems like it’s doing everything to give the opposing player a chance to win or tie up the game and then the third period the face offs go back to the player dominating in the first period. It is entirely too predictable and it does not make for an enjoyable experience. The coding comes into play even more if you just hold onto the puck and stay behind your net or skate around with it increasing your puck possession time which boosts your teams offensive AI and allows you easier access to the offensive zone on a rush and your team offensive AI increases and 90% of the time you end up scoring because of the exploitation of the games coding that increases team stats mid game. It makes for a cheap experience and makes me not want to play this game anymore. It has been like this for many years now and the development team does not listen or is unwilling to change the coding of the game. You are losing customers this way. I think the last nhl games that i really enjoyed were nhl 14 where you actually had to be creative and it didn’t feel too much like you knew you were going to lose from the 8 minute mark of the first period because every single play was broken up and blocked by the AI or you put 48 shots on goal with the other player only registering 9 and you either lose or end up in a shootout because of the ridiculous coding and stat modifications mid game

    I agree with all of this! I wanna know the sales of the series from like 2008 to now, none of my friends buy the games anymore who were complete diehards years ago, the night the game released we used to hook up 4 TVs, buy a ton of packs and it’d be amazing, last year I sat in my living room alone and pulled a Crosby on opening night having no one to loose my mind with lol it’s so sad man, this beta is just plain not fun, all the points you made about god awful AI, people becoming gods when they hold the puck to their backhand/forehead or protect the puck is insanity, I was controlling Chara the other day and the guy I was up against was controlling Johnny Hockey and I bounced off him and it didn’t even effect him, that’s soooo stupid lol the AI are the dumbest hockey players I’ve seen, they have no idea how to play hockey, I turn the puck over in the center and then they just charge me and my AI have no idea they play has changed, I played two games last night and hoped over to Fortnite, was just too sick of it.

    [Socair - edited for profanity]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • zingaa1
    347 posts Member
    edited July 30
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    The game was phenomenal up thru 2012, largest community ever, a cult! The game was flat out FUN! to play.

    Been a disaster ever since 2013 and here we are 7 years after going into 2020 and all this talk about new RPM tech skating, more control, better responsiveness, etc. = Lie!

    The game played sluggish, slow, delayed responses, etc. The only way to play this game is to head up ice early looking for turnovers and breakaways, that's not hockey!

    100%...Back in those days I used to go to work so busted from saying "last game" for 10 games in a row, staying up until 2:00 am and going to work at 4:00 am.....
  • zingaa1 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    The game was phenomenal up thru 2012, largest community ever, a cult! The game was flat out FUN! to play.

    Been a disaster ever since 2013 and here we are 7 years after going into 2020 and all this talk about new RPM tech skating, more control, better responsiveness, etc. = Lie!

    The game played sluggish, slow, delayed responses, etc. The only way to play this game is to head up ice early looking for turnovers and breakaways, that's not hockey!

    100%...Back in those days I used to go to work so busted from saying "last game" for 10 games in a row, staying up until 2:00 am and going to work at 4:00 am.....

    LOL. Sad that those days are gone....
  • fastguy2124
    32 posts Member
    edited July 30
    What really bugs me is that fact that EA comes here and reads all the complaints we have about the game but doesn’t do anything about it except edit our posts to remove words 6 year olds classify as swears. Every year I’ve had the same complaints about gameplay, ai, and presentation and the complaints just get worse every year it seems.

    Like they have crowds in their game that don’t do the chant they do in real life (Rogers place specifically.) Not only that, but the crowds are god awful nowadays. A game in the Stanley cup finals at home should feel the part, but it doesn’t. You lay a big hit and it’s like every single person was on their phone and missed it. They should explode. The crowd should be helping put the other team on its heels, especially early. I think the worst part is they’re just as quiet after the home team scores as they are after a huge hit.

    Nashville has a weird panther growl after their goal horn. I’ve never heard that in real life before? Maybe back in like 07 or something lol.

    And every year the presentation gets worse, you don’t even see the teams walk down the tunnel anymore. What’s the point of entrance props if they never get used and hang from the ceiling 24/7?

    [Removed profanity]
    Post edited by EA_Roger on
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    The game was phenomenal up thru 2012, largest community ever, a cult! The game was flat out FUN! to play.

    Been a disaster ever since 2013 and here we are 7 years after going into 2020 and all this talk about new RPM tech skating, more control, better responsiveness, etc. = Lie!

    The game played sluggish, slow, delayed responses, etc. The only way to play this game is to head up ice early looking for turnovers and breakaways, that's not hockey!

    I had fun with NHL14 & 15 (PS3), lots of late nights. Back when in EASHL you had full customization of your players attributes, hitting was great (even a bit OP) but bump checks were not a thing, dekes/dangles had more range, manual goalie movement was smoother, and you had 12 man lobbies which was basically like having a server browser... ahhh the good old days.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    The game was phenomenal up thru 2012, largest community ever, a cult! The game was flat out FUN! to play.

    Been a disaster ever since 2013 and here we are 7 years after going into 2020 and all this talk about new RPM tech skating, more control, better responsiveness, etc. = Lie!

    The game played sluggish, slow, delayed responses, etc. The only way to play this game is to head up ice early looking for turnovers and breakaways, that's not hockey!

    I had fun with NHL14 & 15 (PS3), lots of late nights. Back when in EASHL you had full customization of your players attributes, hitting was great (even a bit OP) but bump checks were not a thing, dekes/dangles had more range, manual goalie movement was smoother, and you had 12 man lobbies which was basically like having a server browser... ahhh the good old days.

    Lobbies / Server Browser needs to come back if they're not going to do any sort of advancement in Drop Ins. Drop In Lobbies and an Online EASHL Team Practice would make this an instant buy for me, despite gameplay not advancing.
    EASHL player
  • G1ll1es
    38 posts Member
    Guys.

    We didnt want nhl 15 for ps4. We have gotten almost nothing ea nhl 14 did well except for scouting and a progressively better looking nhl 15.

    This game is alllll about selling these days and not much about actual HOCKEY. Its an NHL branded hockey game that at its core probably pays the NHL logo a large sum of money and cuts down production costs for programmers and coders.

  • twoorb
    52 posts Member
    G1ll1es wrote: »
    Guys.

    We didnt want nhl 15 for ps4. We have gotten almost nothing ea nhl 14 did well except for scouting and a progressively better looking nhl 15.

    This game is alllll about selling these days and not much about actual HOCKEY. Its an NHL branded hockey game that at its core probably pays the NHL logo a large sum of money and cuts down production costs for programmers and coders.

    Agreed.
    Stop buying this garbage people!!
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Guys.

    We didnt want nhl 15 for ps4. We have gotten almost nothing ea nhl 14 did well except for scouting and a progressively better looking nhl 15.

    This game is alllll about selling these days and not much about actual HOCKEY. Its an NHL branded hockey game that at its core probably pays the NHL logo a large sum of money and cuts down production costs for programmers and coders.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL is giving EA some sort of subsidy to keep the franchise alive.
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Guys.

    We didnt want nhl 15 for ps4. We have gotten almost nothing ea nhl 14 did well except for scouting and a progressively better looking nhl 15.

    This game is alllll about selling these days and not much about actual HOCKEY. Its an NHL branded hockey game that at its core probably pays the NHL logo a large sum of money and cuts down production costs for programmers and coders.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL is giving EA some sort of subsidy to keep the franchise alive.

    LOL, Bettman will never give what he can sell. EA pays the NHL, not the other way around.
  • VeNOM2099
    2414 posts Member
    edited August 3
    rblaze1988 wrote: »
    G1ll1es wrote: »
    Its not about ice tilt.. Its about a bad A.I system that helps provide fair play... Or as you all know it as game difficulty..

    Its impossible to change.. The game ans A.I will always choose to do what it thinks should happen on the cpu or even user controlled player..

    Just take a look at playing online vs.. Let go of your controller and watch your a.i change its style.. Im done..


    Ok and that is really exploitable all you have to do is float around with one skater for a minute and not do anything and the game will begin to compensate (and over compensate) and your opponent will get shut down and because frustrated leaving you to just get the puck and score with your enhanced team. I’m done with the series until something can be done and less control is given to the AI. I can play all five of my skaters and play defense and break up plays all by myself i don’t need the computer AI doing it all and thats what i see my opponents doing until the AI gets them the puck and they have possession without any work

    Here's the thing, you can only control ONE player at a time. Which means the other 5 players HAVE to be moved by the CPU.

    It's just simple logic. The devs already took away the AI's ability to pressure the puck holder. It doesn't stick lift (except when it's behind you). It doesn't pin on the boards. It doesn't bump. Now you just want it to stand around like a lemon?

    Why not make this game into CHESS? You can only move ONE piece at a time, ONE side at a time. Would that make you happy?
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Guys.

    We didnt want nhl 15 for ps4. We have gotten almost nothing ea nhl 14 did well except for scouting and a progressively better looking nhl 15.

    This game is alllll about selling these days and not much about actual HOCKEY. Its an NHL branded hockey game that at its core probably pays the NHL logo a large sum of money and cuts down production costs for programmers and coders.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL is giving EA some sort of subsidy to keep the franchise alive.

    LOL, Bettman will never give what he can sell. EA pays the NHL, not the other way around.

    E-sports is a billion dollar business and the NHL is starting to get their feet wet in it, holding EA NHL tournaments at the awards show, cover reveal and all that stuff. It's in their best interest to keep the game alive.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    rblaze1988 wrote: »
    G1ll1es wrote: »
    Its not about ice tilt.. Its about a bad A.I system that helps provide fair play... Or as you all know it as game difficulty..

    Its impossible to change.. The game ans A.I will always choose to do what it thinks should happen on the cpu or even user controlled player..

    Just take a look at playing online vs.. Let go of your controller and watch your a.i change its style.. Im done..


    Ok and that is really exploitable all you have to do is float around with one skater for a minute and not do anything and the game will begin to compensate (and over compensate) and your opponent will get shut down and because frustrated leaving you to just get the puck and score with your enhanced team. I’m done with the series until something can be done and less control is given to the AI. I can play all five of my skaters and play defense and break up plays all by myself i don’t need the computer AI doing it all and thats what i see my opponents doing until the AI gets them the puck and they have possession without any work

    Here's the thing, you can only control ONE player at a time. Which means the other 5 players HAVE to be moved by the CPU.

    It's just simple logic. The devs already took away the AI's ability to pressure the puck holder. It doesn't stick lift (except when it's behind you). It doesn't pin on the boards. It doesn't bump. Now you just want it to stand around like a lemon?

    Why not make this game into CHESS? You can only move ONE piece at a time, ONE side at a time. Would that make you happy?

    Wow dude you completely missed what i am talking about...no i just don’t think that the computer AI and attributes should be enhanced if the game realizes that you are not controlling any of the play. This happens 90% of the games now because people realize that’s all they have to do to swing momentum in their favor. I can control all 5 skaters on the ice and break up plays by myself and that’s when the game realizes that i am more skilled but if i just stayed on one skater and just stood there and didn’t move or input any actions the game would ramp up my team AI and attributes to compensate and it would shut down all of my opponents plays and that’s just not right. It is too easy to exploit and it happens almost every game now.

  • VeNOM2099
    2414 posts Member
    No. No you can't control all 5 players on the ice because AGAIN, that would mean that they would just stand in place until you activated them. The game would look like a game of chess or checkers with only the active played moving while the rest stand around in place on the ice. So the AI needs to be in control of the other players while you are in control of the one.

    The game doesn't ENHANCE anything. The game doesn't have any momentum or ice tilt or anything ridiculous like that. The problem isn't even with that, but with how the game acts like the user isn't even there most of the time. It does this REGARDLESS of your inputs. Even when you're in position and guarding the puck handler from getting to your net, the AI will encroach on your space (even bumping into you) because it was programmed that way.

    I see a lot of people (especially the "elites") go on and on about skill. Here's a question for all of you: what setting is their/your Pass Aim Assist set to? Here's another question about "skill"; how many passes do they/you take on the breakout? When they're/you're in the offensive zone? Do they/you only pass when the AI inevitably leaves the back door shot open for the easy one-t? On defense, do you care about your positioning or do you just b-line it to the puck holder and ram him off the puck? Do you use the DSS on defense?

    If the pass aim assist is set to anything above 10%. If they make anything below 3 passes to break out of their zone. If the puck only touches 1 or 2 of their players on offense (mostly the forwards)... Then how is that "skilled"?? Sounds to me people should be complaining more about THAT then about the AI which is programmed to be dumber than spilled milk.

    I can beat the AI on All-Star. Easily. And I am BAD!! You people with all your skill should be destroying the AI.

    So why are you complaining that it's overpowered? Something is not logical... Ask yourself this last question: every video game that has a competitive scene will instantly patch out any exploits that the community finds to try to balance the gameplay. EA's NHL series is the ONLY competitive game out there that doesn't do this. In fact the competitive scene thrives on glitch goals and exploits. Why? Is that this "skill" everyone keeps talking about?
  • Ask yourself this how come i have won 3 games in a row with TPS Turku of the Finnish league (probably a 70’s rated team) against all time all star and 2 nhl teams meanwhile I’m constantly getting screwed when I’m using nhl teams. There definitely is an ice tilt/programming going on in this game because my no name goalie took on messier Gretzky and other legends and nearly shut them out while my 60-70 rated forwards had more speed strength and skill and scored 3 goals against hasek. If there was no assist or programming i don’t care how bad you are at the game you should be skating circles around my team and be more accurate and stronger in every facet. The game assists players in online play and there isn’t a more convincing piece of evidence of that then when someone stops controlling their player and his team sees an overall boost in forecheck, back check ,defensive AI, goalie AI and awareness, check stick lifting all done by the computer. Then when you start controlling your player again the team AI comes down to earth and goes back to playing average hockey. This gets exploited by my opponents on an almost daily basis.

    I don’t know why you keep talking about a chess match but that’s not what i meant what i mean is that i can switch between all five players in a sequence and play team defense by controlling all teammates in some way during a sequence instead of just staying on one player the whole time. I never said that the AI shouldn’t control the team it’s the fact that it is so obvious that there are stat boosts and deficits that impact games mid-game. I’m talking about the fact that when the opponent team AI is godlike in all facets your team AI is almost always sub par and you have to work your butt off to make literally the smallest of plays work while your opponent doesn’t really do much and has his team AI do all the heavy lifting to get him great opportunities to just walk in and score a weak goal or a goal where you poke the puck while he’s carrying it multiple times where it gets jarred but still ends up on his stick he then recovers from a successful stick lift regaining the puck bounces off a body check and is still able to walk in a score a goal. That is fundamentally broken gameplay and obvious favoring by the games progrmaming and coding.
  • VeNOM2099
    2414 posts Member
    edited August 4
    It's all in your head dude. How come I can win with the Ottawa Senators consistantly in VS even though they are the WORST rated team in the game, by far?

    Maybe because I play better knowing I have a less "skilled" team on the ice.

    As the old saying goes: "A Master with a Stone will always defeat a Novice with a Sword..."
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