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NHL 20 Content Update October 1st


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K.I.S.S.

sgiz1
535 posts Member
Keep it simple Stupid

A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

Replies

  • This game does have too many things going on in the background right now that go very bad when your internet isn't nearly perfect in every way. I don't know what the solution is either. Do you go backwards and get rid of all the extra stuff that weighs down the game? Do you keep innovating? Do you pour resources into figuring out why the internet has such an ill effect on this game and then fix it (that's my suggestion)?

    This game will continue to be a nightmare to play and enjoy for those whose internet isn't up to the task, period. I can only speculate, but it seems like EA does their game testing offline in a vacuum or something, because the issues that happen to me all the time online don't seem to ever happen offline.

    I would seriously LOVE to see how this game would play online if all the online problems didn't exist.
  • Dixonyu
    649 posts Member
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple
  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple

    This is a fantastic point. There's several strategies that EA doesn't have in the game and it's a little frustrating. But it's not a major thing in the grand scheme of things.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple

    This is a fantastic point. There's several strategies that EA doesn't have in the game and it's a little frustrating. But it's not a major thing in the grand scheme of things.

    EA isnt qualified to attempt at adding more strategies; they cant even get the easy stuff right... the easiest thing they could start doing is listen to their client base.
  • net_rogue1 wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple

    This is a fantastic point. There's several strategies that EA doesn't have in the game and it's a little frustrating. But it's not a major thing in the grand scheme of things.

    EA isnt qualified to attempt at adding more strategies; they cant even get the easy stuff right... the easiest thing they could start doing is listen to their client base.

    Double edge sword. They do listen to a good deal of feedback. The problem is the community is split on sim vs arcade and they have been kind of blending both. Whether you agree or disagree on what the right path is there will always be those who wont like the direction. Only thing you can do is vote with your wallet.
  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple

    This is a fantastic point. There's several strategies that EA doesn't have in the game and it's a little frustrating. But it's not a major thing in the grand scheme of things.

    Watching the Poweplay in all zones is either amazingly frustrating or the biggest comedy hit of the year depending on your mood lol. I’ve gotten more enjoyment offline this year than ever before, but that part of the game is really hard to stomach which is sad because that should be a fun, intense part of the experience. Between the uninmersive crowd and your AI looking like clothes on a rinse cycle in a washing machine while you’re trying to setup, the PP is very much underwhelming and unenjoyable in this game.
  • WainGretSki
    2883 posts Member
    edited July 30
    net_rogue1 wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Keep it simple Stupid

    A well known saying because of the common sense factor.

    EA is making this too complicated, we don't need complexity, we need a simple game that is FUN to play, that's it, FUN!!!

    NHL08 thru 12, these games were flat out fun to play, we had the largest NHL community, a cult following, EASHL exploded, online leagues exploded, it was the glory days of this game.

    Over the years complexity crept into this game, high level programming for realism, etc. that's bogged down the game, making it slow, clunky, wonky, hard to control, too many animation, delayed and non responsive to control/play.

    EA need to get back to K.I.S.S.

    You're saying hockey is a simple game ?? As that's part of the problem , they don't embrace the strategy side of hockey... Ea already keeps it simple

    This is a fantastic point. There's several strategies that EA doesn't have in the game and it's a little frustrating. But it's not a major thing in the grand scheme of things.

    EA isnt qualified to attempt at adding more strategies; they cant even get the easy stuff right... the easiest thing they could start doing is listen to their client base.

    No, they should not listen to their client base because that is the exact reason the game is in the state it is in. When 19 launched goalies actually made you work for your goals. Well boohoo, a few streamers didn't like it and guess what... EA listened to them.

    This franchise is very far from growing and its vision doesn't change. New consoles, new versions, new modes, in the end, it always feels the same. It always ends up getting tuned the same.

    There is no definitive game mode. Not a single thing that is polished or finished. Not even the menus.... Everything feels "good enough". I also have seen many references that NHL was on a 5 year plan since 15. Thing is, this game is turning more and more into Fortnite Hockey last 2 years and Fortnite wasn't a thing 5 years ago. So, is the 5 year plan out the door, or was this it??

    I appreciate all the feedback and input from Ben, and I seriously hope that EA considers giving him the reigns. I agree with alot of his insight, explanations and he seems to want to bring this game more in a direction that I want to see the game go. I am sure he fights many a losing battles to try and steer this game to a more hockey logic than what we've gotten in the past. Real shame actually, but I appreciate that he seems to not give up on us, even though he doesn't have the final word.

    It is with a heavy heart I see myself getting further and further away from the desire to play these hockey games. It is infuriating to see what is a priority, or where resources are allocated. I mean, who is the target consumer? What are you guys aiming for?? Is it hockey fans, or cartoon dressup fans?

    Hockey is a niche sport, we get it. It's sales and revenue are a joke compared to most professional sports. So the question is, since it's such a niche sport, should your targeted consumer base be hockey fans? People that actually watch and appreciate the sport? Those are the ones that will sustain sales for years to come as opposed to the "Fortnite" crowd that have a short attention span and move on to the next greatest thing the moment it appears. I don't know, I mean, I don't have all the sales numbers and who buys what, but seems logical to me to target hockey fans first and foremost, especially long term. If not, at least give us 1 single game mode specifically catered to pure hockey fans..... Why isn't this not done yet???? Is it that hard to add an option to connect to a pure sim lobby that this couldn't be done in the last 7 years????

    Those that cry they can't score, and somehow their voice is heard.... Why is this even being considered a worthy listen in a team sport?? For those that want to be a one-man show, then for the love of God, leave that for the 1 player modes. There are plenty of them, and you even have Arcade 3s for that. Yet, we still see a one man show mentality in a 6v6 team mode. I still don't understand how a team-oriented, multi-player mode still allows for players to negate physical play by simply curling a stick away from a defender instead of encouraging and enforcing a team-play mentality to get success. Sure, team play does get rewarded, but selfish players have it all too easy in 6v6. It should be incredibly hard to have success as a selfish player in a 6v6 mode.....

    I am a hockey fan. I love every aspect of the sport. It is fast, explosive and physical. Somehow it is pretty much everything EASHL isn't. Yea sure there are insane saves, miraculous dekes, one-handed tucks, sick passes through 3 people, etc... But they don't happen every 3 minutes and that's what makes them awesome to see and why we appreciate those moments so much. It's like this game tries to be a highlight reel all the time....

    Sadly, it infuriates me to see that coaching strategies, AI logic both offensively and defensively, goalie logic, menu response time, simulation response time, boardplay, faceoffs, general control of our player on the ice, and overall feel of the game all take a back seat to presentation and Fortniting our players. Where playing Walmart Customer Dressup is more important than the actual sport and how it is portrayed. I get to yet again play a 6v6 team sport game on a pond or in the mountains with my black or white hoody because face it, who wants to play in an arena atmosphere with full gear like every competitive league on the planet does? Would rather have an option of choosing from 600 shirts and parkas, but be forced to wear the same 2 hoodies rather than having full team gear that better suits a team and multiplayer setting....

    [Removed call out]
    Post edited by EA_Roger on
  • @WainGretSki I share your frustrations. It's been obvious for a loooong time now that EA doesn't believe that making or promoting a "team play" focused game will lead to sales. They're convinced that "wow moments" are what sells. We don't have access to the sales data so it's impossible to say if they're right or not, but that's obviously what they believe. So that's what we get.

    It was never so obvious as with the NHL 18 teaser. "Who needs fundamentals? It's time to dangle, snipe, celly bruh!"

  • WFWR26
    45 posts Member
    managed to dig this up somehwere...seems pretty obvious that the debacle that '15 was began the skid and rightfully so. Nothing about this game has been worthy of the next gen console or innovative. they dumbed down the dekes from ps3 to ps4 for one...the last great NHL innovation was the skill stick to stickhandle...

    NHL 15 - 273,029 Units
    NHL 16 - 226,537 Units
    NHL 17 - 206,937 Units
    NHL 12 - 192,443 Units
    NHL 18 - 175,367 Units
    NHL 10 - 145,439 Units
    NHL 11 - 144,465 Units
    NHL 13 - 139,727 Units
    NHL 14 - 130,053 Units
    NHL 09 - 82,348 Units
  • sgiz1
    535 posts Member
    "This game will continue to be a nightmare to play and enjoy for those whose internet isn't up to the task, period."

    It's not even our internet that's the problem, you don't need 100 mbps speed to play online, you only need about 2 mbps.

    The issue is EA side, net code, servers, routing, etc. depending on where you live you get a good connection to EA or other users on P2P or you have multiple hops resulting in high latency and delay, and no amount of internet speed will fix the hops.

    I have all the latest and greatest equipment and internet speed but get about 64 ping on every online NHL game and some of the people I play with get less than 10 and they have slower internet!

  • sgiz1
    535 posts Member
    There are too many layers of programming, automation, animation in the NHL game. It's just too sensitive to quality of connection to EA servers, etc.

    Gripe all you want about the floating on ice of NHL 09 thru NHL 12, but the series was gaining in community each of those years (not dying like it has since NHL 13). Those games were extremely satisfying and fun to play, people would play for 6 to 10 hours each and every night, people are lucky to play for an hour now a days or maybe a few games a week now.
  • WFWR26 wrote: »
    managed to dig this up somehwere...seems pretty obvious that the debacle that '15 was began the skid and rightfully so. Nothing about this game has been worthy of the next gen console or innovative. they dumbed down the dekes from ps3 to ps4 for one...the last great NHL innovation was the skill stick to stickhandle...

    NHL 15 - 273,029 Units
    NHL 16 - 226,537 Units
    NHL 17 - 206,937 Units
    NHL 12 - 192,443 Units
    NHL 18 - 175,367 Units
    NHL 10 - 145,439 Units
    NHL 11 - 144,465 Units
    NHL 13 - 139,727 Units
    NHL 14 - 130,053 Units
    NHL 09 - 82,348 Units

    To be fair, those VG charts are not that accurate and as far as I know digital sales are not taken into account. More and more people are buying it online and most probably the HUT players as they get bonus packs which you don't get when buying the physical copy. Don't read too much into those numbers. Also, a dev stated last year that sales are very similar year to year and over several years.
  • WFWR26 wrote: »
    managed to dig this up somehwere...seems pretty obvious that the debacle that '15 was began the skid and rightfully so. Nothing about this game has been worthy of the next gen console or innovative. they dumbed down the dekes from ps3 to ps4 for one...the last great NHL innovation was the skill stick to stickhandle...

    NHL 15 - 273,029 Units
    NHL 16 - 226,537 Units
    NHL 17 - 206,937 Units
    NHL 12 - 192,443 Units
    NHL 18 - 175,367 Units
    NHL 10 - 145,439 Units
    NHL 11 - 144,465 Units
    NHL 13 - 139,727 Units
    NHL 14 - 130,053 Units
    NHL 09 - 82,348 Units

    It's too bad that NHL 15 is the highest selling game of them all. Because it was the worst game of them all. At least in my opinion it is.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • @WainGretSki I share your frustrations. It's been obvious for a loooong time now that EA doesn't believe that making or promoting a "team play" focused game will lead to sales. They're convinced that "wow moments" are what sells. We don't have access to the sales data so it's impossible to say if they're right or not, but that's obviously what they believe. So that's what we get.

    It was never so obvious as with the NHL 18 teaser. "Who needs fundamentals? It's time to dangle, snipe, celly bruh!"


    Yea I know, it is what it is. I mean fine, I'm not the target audience. I get it. But can we at least get an EASHL mode that is targeted for pure hockey? Where it is more realistic and not as arcade as now? 1 mode is not too much to ask I would think and it would even show how many players connect to it. If it is really really not popular, I will concede and move on.
  • sgiz1
    535 posts Member
    I believe sales NHL 14 and earlier were just two consoles (PS3 and Xbox)

    NHL 15 included (4) PS3/xbox and PS4/xbox1 which can explain why it was high.

    NHL 16 and newer back to two consoles PS4/xbox1
  • @WainGretSki I share your frustrations. It's been obvious for a loooong time now that EA doesn't believe that making or promoting a "team play" focused game will lead to sales. They're convinced that "wow moments" are what sells. We don't have access to the sales data so it's impossible to say if they're right or not, but that's obviously what they believe. So that's what we get.

    It was never so obvious as with the NHL 18 teaser. "Who needs fundamentals? It's time to dangle, snipe, celly bruh!"


    If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it also the year (or was it 17?) that they said "This year the focus is to make every position fun to play"

    Call my Mr. Negativity, but I consider this an epic fail just based on goalies alone....
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "This game will continue to be a nightmare to play and enjoy for those whose internet isn't up to the task, period."

    It's not even our internet that's the problem, you don't need 100 mbps speed to play online, you only need about 2 mbps.

    The issue is EA side, net code, servers, routing, etc. depending on where you live you get a good connection to EA or other users on P2P or you have multiple hops resulting in high latency and delay, and no amount of internet speed will fix the hops.

    I have all the latest and greatest equipment and internet speed but get about 64 ping on every online NHL game and some of the people I play with get less than 10 and they have slower internet!

    I feel as though I'm in the same situation as you are here. I have done everything possible three times over and nothing fixes the problem. I have exactly one high-speed internet option here (Charter Spectrum) so it's not like I can change that part up either to see if it's better. Right now the best I've seen here is 44ms and that's playing on the servers, otherwise it's usually 60-100ms average.
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    I believe sales NHL 14 and earlier were just two consoles (PS3 and Xbox)

    NHL 15 included (4) PS3/xbox and PS4/xbox1 which can explain why it was high.

    NHL 16 and newer back to two consoles PS4/xbox1

    Just a note regarding this statement...NHL 16 was actually on all four consoles just like NHL 15 was. The only thing is that the PS3/360 version was titled NHL Legacy, but was still released the same time as NHL 16 was on PS4/XB1. I don't know how much that matters though, because my limited time playing Legacy didn't show very many players online ever.
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