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NHL 20 Patch Details April 3rd

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Check out our April 3rd patch details here.

Fat-Man Lag still in full effect!!

I really wish somebody at EA would put some time into this situation rather than simply dismissing it as "it's on your end."

So EA, 400Meg/20Meg internet isn't enough for your game to work properly?? I have the choice of one provider here (Charter Spectrum.) I have experimented with five or so modems and five to ten routers and everything is purely random as to when the game isn't playable. I even had new lines run to the house.

What more do you suggest EA?? Please note that no matter how good or bad the game plays all of the internet stats are always the same for me. Speed, Ping, Jitter, Bufferbloat....EVERYTHING.

I won't be buying your game any more, and I also recommend anybody else who ever has this problem to steer clear of NHL 20, because it's the same hot mess as it ever was.

Replies

  • I really wish somebody at EA would put some time into this situation rather than simply dismissing it as "it's on your end."

    So EA, 400Meg/20Meg internet isn't enough for your game to work properly?? I have the choice of one provider here (Charter Spectrum.) I have experimented with five or so modems and five to ten routers and everything is purely random as to when the game isn't playable. I even had new lines run to the house.

    What more do you suggest EA?? Please note that no matter how good or bad the game plays all of the internet stats are always the same for me. Speed, Ping, Jitter, Bufferbloat....EVERYTHING.

    I won't be buying your game any more, and I also recommend anybody else who ever has this problem to steer clear of NHL 20, because it's the same hot mess as it ever was.

    You can have a million mb/sec download speed, but if something is wrong between you and ea, along the path your connection is taking, problems can arise.

    Not saying ea has the best servers, or your internet is bad. Just, everything in between can also have an effect. Try a traceroute. Someone more savvy can post a link. But you can at least rule the in between out.
  • Confusion2000
    137 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    I really wish somebody at EA would put some time into this situation rather than simply dismissing it as "it's on your end."

    So EA, 400Meg/20Meg internet isn't enough for your game to work properly?? I have the choice of one provider here (Charter Spectrum.) I have experimented with five or so modems and five to ten routers and everything is purely random as to when the game isn't playable. I even had new lines run to the house.

    What more do you suggest EA?? Please note that no matter how good or bad the game plays all of the internet stats are always the same for me. Speed, Ping, Jitter, Bufferbloat....EVERYTHING.

    I won't be buying your game any more, and I also recommend anybody else who ever has this problem to steer clear of NHL 20, because it's the same hot mess as it ever was.

    You can have a million mb/sec download speed, but if something is wrong between you and ea, along the path your connection is taking, problems can arise.

    Not saying ea has the best servers, or your internet is bad. Just, everything in between can also have an effect. Try a traceroute. Someone more savvy can post a link. But you can at least rule the in between out.

    I forgot to specify that the traceroute to EA is consistent all of the time as well. The route appears to be the exact same route every time I run it and there doesn't appear to be anything awry there. My final latency is usually 50-60ms. Whatever is causing things appears to be something outside of my ability or knowledge to measure.

    I'm also speaking of all years of NHL since they made the jump to PS4/XB1, not just this 20 Beta.

    Another thing here is who do you even contact about an issue like this? Is there even anybody a consumer can speak with that has the ability to dive deep into the issue and figure it out? I've tried the support team via chat and phone call in the past and got absolutely nowhere with them.
    Post edited by Confusion2000 on
  • well, I solved my issue.

    it was introduced when I switched to another carrier that was offering gig fiber for a stupid low price.

    what I observed:

    lag would introduce mid game after a spike. the degree of lag would be dependent on the lag spike severity. fat man lag (input delay) would subside with cut scene / face off. bottom line, I would become out of sync and delayed until a point in the game where consoles could resync.

    took some captures and verified what I was "feeling".

    I work from home and diagnosed some other issues with VoIP and Citrix and had enough.

    called my previous carrier, moved back. no lag at all.

    so, keep in mind that my lag WAS introduced by latency spikes and cleared with cut scenes / face offs / etc. then would re-introduce itself with ever subsequent spike.

    not all cases / symptoms / triggers are the same. but, mine was caused by latency spikes back to EA so the issue was either with my local connection, local carrier, carrier buffering / latency upstream or issues with upstream peering between my carrier and other peers.
  • well, I solved my issue.

    it was introduced when I switched to another carrier that was offering gig fiber for a stupid low price.

    what I observed:

    lag would introduce mid game after a spike. the degree of lag would be dependent on the lag spike severity. fat man lag (input delay) would subside with cut scene / face off. bottom line, I would become out of sync and delayed until a point in the game where consoles could resync.

    took some captures and verified what I was "feeling".

    I work from home and diagnosed some other issues with VoIP and Citrix and had enough.

    called my previous carrier, moved back. no lag at all.

    so, keep in mind that my lag WAS introduced by latency spikes and cleared with cut scenes / face offs / etc. then would re-introduce itself with ever subsequent spike.

    not all cases / symptoms / triggers are the same. but, mine was caused by latency spikes back to EA so the issue was either with my local connection, local carrier, carrier buffering / latency upstream or issues with upstream peering between my carrier and other peers.

    Hmm, that is interesting to say the least.
  • G1ll1es
    38 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    Wth is fat man lag. Lag is lag bruh. They arent spending millions on servers to run ea nhl pick up hockey.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    G1ll1es wrote: »
    Wth is fat man lag. Lag is lag bruh. They arent spending millions on servers to run ea nhl pick up hockey.

    There's two types of lags more or less in these hockey games. You very rarely hear people complain about spikes or the screen freezing for a second or two and catching up. That is why I say two types, more or less.

    One is you see you are obviously behind on the play. You turn left and a second or two later, your player turns left.

    The second is fatman lag. You inputs aren't delayed, but everything feels sluggish, as if your skater was a fat man on skates. Alot of people also say it feels like turning an 18 wheeler. Sluggish.
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Wth is fat man lag. Lag is lag bruh. They arent spending millions on servers to run ea nhl pick up hockey.

    There's two types of lags more or less in these hockey games. You very rarely hear people complain about spikes or the screen freezing for a second or two and catching up. That is why I say two types, more or less.

    One is you see you are obviously behind on the play. You turn left and a second or two later, your player turns left.

    The second is fatman lag. You inputs aren't delayed, but everything feels sluggish, as if your skater was a fat man on skates. Alot of people also say it feels like turning an 18 wheeler. Sluggish.

    To expand on this, the "first type" can be easily measured and seen by a naked eye for the most part. You can physically see the screen freezing momentarily. You could pause the game right after that and see the freeze indicated in EA's network graph by a drastic increase in latency. The graph looks like mountains basically.

    The "third type" which wasn't mentioned is basically input delay where all of your actions are delayed by a certain amount of time. The game is still crispy in this state, just delayed a little more. You can see this in the network graph as well by a higher than normal plateau. Less than 100ms is green (good), over 100ms is yellow (fair), and I'm not sure what number is for poor, but it shows up red. This is EA's basis for deciding your "quality of connection"

    The "second type" is what I was speaking of, and it's been nicknamed fat-man lag because it basically feels like you are laboring a 500 pound skater around the ice all game long. This lag is usually not obvious by just looking at the gameplay, unless you are the one fighting against it.

    An easy way to simplify what it feels like is to nerf every single attribute every player on your team has (not just the one you are controlling, but especially the one you are controlling) and give a boost to everybody on your opponent's team.

    There are things that you will notice when you are suffering from fat-man lag. The "hustle" doesn't make you hustle AT ALL, EVER, no matter how rested your lines are. All animations involving your skater take longer to complete than normal. That means the actions of being bumped, stick-lifted, retrieving puck, accelerating from stop, passing, shooting, body checking, etc...all take longer than they should and WEAKER than they should.

    You ever have a game where your team feels gassed/slow/weak all game long no matter what you do? That has nothing to do with your skill or your opponent's skill. That's what this fat-man lag is all about. People that have it know exactly what your talking about. I have not been able to figure out how to measure it or what causes it. EA's graph could be a perfect green flatline with 0% packet loss and your up/down speeds consistently high (EA's graph doesn't show speeds) and you could still have it bad.

    This has been a thing since at least NHL 16 on current consoles. It happens and nobody I've spoken with at EA seems to know anything.
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Wth is fat man lag. Lag is lag bruh. They arent spending millions on servers to run ea nhl pick up hockey.

    There's two types of lags more or less in these hockey games. You very rarely hear people complain about spikes or the screen freezing for a second or two and catching up. That is why I say two types, more or less.

    One is you see you are obviously behind on the play. You turn left and a second or two later, your player turns left.

    The second is fatman lag. You inputs aren't delayed, but everything feels sluggish, as if your skater was a fat man on skates. Alot of people also say it feels like turning an 18 wheeler. Sluggish.

    To expand on this, the "first type" can be easily measured and seen by a naked eye for the most part. You can physically see the screen freezing momentarily. You could pause the game right after that and see the freeze indicated in EA's network graph by a drastic increase in latency. The graph looks like mountains basically.

    The "third type" which wasn't mentioned is basically input delay where all of your actions are delayed by a certain amount of time. The game is still crispy in this state, just delayed a little more. You can see this in the network graph as well by a higher than normal plateau. Less than 100ms is green (good), over 100ms is yellow (fair), and I'm not sure what number is for poor, but it shows up red. This is EA's basis for deciding your "quality of connection"

    The "second type" is what I was speaking of, and it's been nicknamed fat-man lag because it basically feels like you are laboring a 500 pound skater around the ice all game long. This lag is usually not obvious by just looking at the gameplay, unless you are the one fighting against it.

    An easy way to simplify what it feels like is to nerf every single attribute every player on your team has (not just the one you are controlling, but especially the one you are controlling) and give a boost to everybody on your opponent's team.

    There are things that you will notice when you are suffering from fat-man lag. The "hustle" doesn't make you hustle AT ALL, EVER, no matter how rested your lines are. All animations involving your skater take longer to complete than normal. That means the actions of being bumped, stick-lifted, retrieving puck, accelerating from stop, passing, shooting, body checking, etc...all take longer than they should and WEAKER than they should.

    You ever have a game where your team feels gassed/slow/weak all game long no matter what you do? That has nothing to do with your skill or your opponent's skill. That's what this fat-man lag is all about. People that have it know exactly what your talking about. I have not been able to figure out how to measure it or what causes it. EA's graph could be a perfect green flatline with 0% packet loss and your up/down speeds consistently high (EA's graph doesn't show speeds) and you could still have it bad.

    This has been a thing since at least NHL 16 on current consoles. It happens and nobody I've spoken with at EA seems to know anything.
    Perfectly explained. I have nothing to add.
  • I do wish somebody at EA would give us a full explanation or have a discussion about this at least. This is a real legitimate problem for some people. I'm not sure what percentage of players suffer from this even.
  • Kuus2
    213 posts Member
    ...

    The "second type" is what I was speaking of, and it's been nicknamed fat-man lag because it basically feels like you are laboring a 500 pound skater around the ice all game long. This lag is usually not obvious by just looking at the gameplay, unless you are the one fighting against it.

    An easy way to simplify what it feels like is to nerf every single attribute every player on your team has (not just the one you are controlling, but especially the one you are controlling) and give a boost to everybody on your opponent's team.

    There are things that you will notice when you are suffering from fat-man lag. The "hustle" doesn't make you hustle AT ALL, EVER, no matter how rested your lines are. All animations involving your skater take longer to complete than normal. That means the actions of being bumped, stick-lifted, retrieving puck, accelerating from stop, passing, shooting, body checking, etc...all take longer than they should and WEAKER than they should.

    You ever have a game where your team feels gassed/slow/weak all game long no matter what you do? That has nothing to do with your skill or your opponent's skill. That's what this fat-man lag is all about. People that have it know exactly what your talking about. I have not been able to figure out how to measure it or what causes it. EA's graph could be a perfect green flatline with 0% packet loss and your up/down speeds consistently high (EA's graph doesn't show speeds) and you could still have it bad.

    This has been a thing since at least NHL 16 on current consoles. It happens and nobody I've spoken with at EA seems to know anything.

    This is a very accurate description of the connection issue I’ve been suffering from on-off for a long time. I can have a solid 25ms connection but still suffer from this.

    I experience it as all my players being extremely fatigued from the puck drop, but yet the physics thinks everyone is going 80mph all the time.
  • FindowsXP
    8 posts New member
    Agree with this thread and posters here. Wanted to just leave a comment to show I am one of many that suffers from this issue and I support this thread and such poor accountability/effort EA has done about any of this repeating game ruining issue.
  • G1ll1es wrote: »
    Wth is fat man lag. Lag is lag bruh. They arent spending millions on servers to run ea nhl pick up hockey.

    There's two types of lags more or less in these hockey games. You very rarely hear people complain about spikes or the screen freezing for a second or two and catching up. That is why I say two types, more or less.

    One is you see you are obviously behind on the play. You turn left and a second or two later, your player turns left.

    The second is fatman lag. You inputs aren't delayed, but everything feels sluggish, as if your skater was a fat man on skates. Alot of people also say it feels like turning an 18 wheeler. Sluggish.

    To expand on this, the "first type" can be easily measured and seen by a naked eye for the most part. You can physically see the screen freezing momentarily. You could pause the game right after that and see the freeze indicated in EA's network graph by a drastic increase in latency. The graph looks like mountains basically.

    The "third type" which wasn't mentioned is basically input delay where all of your actions are delayed by a certain amount of time. The game is still crispy in this state, just delayed a little more. You can see this in the network graph as well by a higher than normal plateau. Less than 100ms is green (good), over 100ms is yellow (fair), and I'm not sure what number is for poor, but it shows up red. This is EA's basis for deciding your "quality of connection"

    The "second type" is what I was speaking of, and it's been nicknamed fat-man lag because it basically feels like you are laboring a 500 pound skater around the ice all game long. This lag is usually not obvious by just looking at the gameplay, unless you are the one fighting against it.

    An easy way to simplify what it feels like is to nerf every single attribute every player on your team has (not just the one you are controlling, but especially the one you are controlling) and give a boost to everybody on your opponent's team.

    There are things that you will notice when you are suffering from fat-man lag. The "hustle" doesn't make you hustle AT ALL, EVER, no matter how rested your lines are. All animations involving your skater take longer to complete than normal. That means the actions of being bumped, stick-lifted, retrieving puck, accelerating from stop, passing, shooting, body checking, etc...all take longer than they should and WEAKER than they should.

    You ever have a game where your team feels gassed/slow/weak all game long no matter what you do? That has nothing to do with your skill or your opponent's skill. That's what this fat-man lag is all about. People that have it know exactly what your talking about. I have not been able to figure out how to measure it or what causes it. EA's graph could be a perfect green flatline with 0% packet loss and your up/down speeds consistently high (EA's graph doesn't show speeds) and you could still have it bad.

    This has been a thing since at least NHL 16 on current consoles. It happens and nobody I've spoken with at EA seems to know anything.

    Thanks for expanding on my explanation. This is pretty much what I wanted to type up, but was too lazy to go into that much detail lol.

    No sarcasm here, just a simple thank-you for expanding on it. Good job.
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