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Supposedly the game is "in a good state"

So I've read many threads and topics and after contemplating these topics I'm wondering how on earth it's possible for this game to be declared in a good state.

I'm not a cheeser and proud of that. Way back the mass route to score easy goals was to skill up to 99 and do the left-right deke. One year its all cross crease. This year seems it's one timers. If you like this mass frenzy approach great but I do not. I try to go for team play, strategies and passing. So let's discuss how the game is now declared "to be in a good state"

Let's start off by saying the strategy settings seemingly do very little if anything to the ai. The game seems 90% controlled by the tuner or momentum engine. Don't believe me then set your strategies full on one way, play for 5-10 games then with the same team exactly set your strategies completely opposite and see if you can detect anything.

I want to play dump and chase does my team go for the puck? No. I want my team to forecheck hard can I make that happen? Nope.

Ok so strategies can now be ignored.

Great ignoring strategies I'm playing umbrella just in case it does that formation. I'm down low wanting to play it back to my point...I'd say up to 30% of the time it does not pass to my d man it will instead pass towards the player in the slot, or across even to the opposite d man. This is not my aim I presume it's the game engine trying to make the game exciting with break aways..... as a double whammy here is the other bad news ---are my icon cards already nerfed? I'm using Tim Horton on the point chosen for NP synergy with my forward line crashing the net. When he gets the puck from the pass and I'm wanting to blast a slap shot 70% of the time he does a toe drag or lame flip towards the net. So much for those slap shot stats. I should mention that this problem just started. He was slapping bombers well up to a week ago. I'm not sure if this is an adaptation for NP deflections but honestly this is ruining my gameplay, seeing an open side of the net then wanting to blast one home only to get those two unwanted effects in his gameplay style. He's an untradable icon so I can't sell the card. Why is he doing the toe drag that's a skill play and I'm not using L1. Oh well let's forget the strategies x 2 mindset.

Ok let's move on. We all know the interceptions up ice were 100% even with backs turned. Properly the community complains and now it's gone. I ask the question why is it 100% one way and now completely reversed the other way. Should this not be controlled by the defensive or passing stats? Should not 90% passing players get the puck through and lesser passers maybe not so? Or defence stats controlling this. Are the stats not even involved in the meta gameplay decisions? I guess not. So I think we can presume now that the software engine/tuning/momentum engine again is not allowing proper gameplay.

So third what are prime player cards all about? Well my theory is we've all complained about tilt in previous years almost unanimously no community member wants lesser cards performing as well as elite player cards. Guess what here is a great way to dupe people into believing lesser cards are legitimately performing better. What a fantastic idea to cover up and lay that longstanding debate to rest.

So all in all this game is playable but it's a real disaster in my opinion. I can't make effective use of strategies. I can't rely on accurate passing. I can't predict the tuner changes for reliable gameplay. And I can't believe the overalls of the cards

So how it it even possible to even suspect the game is "in a good place?"

Maybe possibly financially but certainly not gameplay wise. I've played about 150 games already and say I've had 3-5 games where both sides AI seemed fully controllable and provided a very good game. That's about 2-3 % so I'm pondering how it's even close to possible the game is as it is. I'm thinking that declaration should provide me with at least 40-60%.

Replies

  • boumbidiboum
    446 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    IWDTCG wrote: »
    So I've read many threads and topics and after contemplating these topics I'm wondering how on earth it's possible for this game to be declared in a good state.

    I'm not a cheeser and proud of that. Way back the mass route to score easy goals was to skill up to 99 and do the left-right deke. One year its all cross crease. This year seems it's one timers. If you like this mass frenzy approach great but I do not. I try to go for team play, strategies and passing. So let's discuss how the game is now declared "to be in a good state"

    Let's start off by saying the strategy settings seemingly do very little if anything to the ai. The game seems 90% controlled by the tuner or momentum engine. Don't believe me then set your strategies full on one way, play for 5-10 games then with the same team exactly set your strategies completely opposite and see if you can detect anything.

    I want to play dump and chase does my team go for the puck? No. I want my team to forecheck hard can I make that happen? Nope.

    Ok so strategies can now be ignored.

    Great ignoring strategies I'm playing umbrella just in case it does that formation. I'm down low wanting to play it back to my point...I'd say up to 30% of the time it does not pass to my d man it will instead pass towards the player in the slot, or across even to the opposite d man. This is not my aim I presume it's the game engine trying to make the game exciting with break aways..... as a double whammy here is the other bad news ---are my icon cards already nerfed? I'm using Tim Horton on the point chosen for NP synergy with my forward line crashing the net. When he gets the puck from the pass and I'm wanting to blast a slap shot 70% of the time he does a toe drag or lame flip towards the net. So much for those slap shot stats. I should mention that this problem just started. He was slapping bombers well up to a week ago. I'm not sure if this is an adaptation for NP deflections but honestly this is ruining my gameplay, seeing an open side of the net then wanting to blast one home only to get those two unwanted effects in his gameplay style. He's an untradable icon so I can't sell the card. Why is he doing the toe drag that's a skill play and I'm not using L1. Oh well let's forget the strategies x 2 mindset.

    Ok let's move on. We all know the interceptions up ice were 100% even with backs turned. Properly the community complains and now it's gone. I ask the question why is it 100% one way and now completely reversed the other way. Should this not be controlled by the defensive or passing stats? Should not 90% passing players get the puck through and lesser passers maybe not so? Or defence stats controlling this. Are the stats not even involved in the meta gameplay decisions? I guess not. So I think we can presume now that the software engine/tuning/momentum engine again is not allowing proper gameplay.

    So third what are prime player cards all about? Well my theory is we've all complained about tilt in previous years almost unanimously no community member wants lesser cards performing as well as elite player cards. Guess what here is a great way to dupe people into believing lesser cards are legitimately performing better. What a fantastic idea to cover up and lay that longstanding debate to rest.

    So all in all this game is playable but it's a real disaster in my opinion. I can't make effective use of strategies. I can't rely on accurate passing. I can't predict the tuner changes for reliable gameplay. And I can't believe the overalls of the cards

    So how it it even possible to even suspect the game is "in a good place?"

    Maybe possibly financially but certainly not gameplay wise. I've played about 150 games already and say I've had 3-5 games where both sides AI seemed fully controllable and provided a very good game. That's about 2-3 % so I'm pondering how it's even close to possible the game is as it is. I'm thinking that declaration should provide me with at least 40-60%.

    The gameplay was in a good place at the release of the game. There was some little things here and there that needed to be fixed, but other than that it was alright. It went down after October 1st update fixing some of the bugs.

    Then for the strategies, they work. There’s no magical setup that fits every game/opponent. You can start all the games the same way (how ever you prefer), but you always need to check how your opponent AI react (not the human) and adjust your strategies to give you the best chances. If you use the same strategies all the time and you play against a decently good player, he will notice it and adjust his setting or how he play to stop you. That being said, strategies are not miraculous and AI make mistakes, they don’t always do what you want. It depends on their attributes. And at the end, it depends on your skills with the controller and your awareness.

    For the pass and shoot, it is probably cause by bad aim or movement of the joystick. Most people tend to aim directly at the player where they want to pass and it works most of the time, thanks to Pass Assist. You need to pass where the player will be, you need to lead your passes (like in real life). Pass Assist will help you if you don’t lead them enough or too much (within a certain range), but if you get out of the range it will just use no pass assist and send it directly where you aimed. You can practice passing with no pass assist in the practice mode so that you can understand how to lead the pass if you have never played hockey in real life. Sometimes though, if two of your players are pretty line up or close, you might aim a little bit to much toward the wrong player and pass assist will send the pass toward the closest player. Sometimes it corrected your pass incorrectly, a little bit like the autocorrect function on the phone might change words for other.

    For the attributes, they are all used somewhere so they matter. For the interception, they mostly change the flexibility of the players (I don’t remember what is the term they used, it was something about limbs) so that the players are slower/harder to twist their body around to grab the puck behind them. They are still possible, just less than before the update. I think that the passing stats only applies to how much pass assist you get so the higher it is, the bigger radius of mistake you have. And for the interception, it depends on your poke stats. The higher they are, the quicker and more precise your player is at poking/reaching for the puck.
  • The PowerPlay strategies are abysmal. Sure, they “work” for 1 second after the faceoff, but then they turn into a washing machine cycle. The AI can’t handle that a player is .00000001 inches “out of position” according to them, so everyone has to “cover” for each other, leading to absolutely no consistent or predictable passing plays.

    In an overload, I want to start the puck at the half boards. I want to cut middle to pull a defender, pass it low, then send it either back to my player on a give and go, or send it guy who has to the initial man in the slot who should kick-out towards the backdoor once he sees the past go low. In the game though, you skate to the middle, your low pass guy actually starts skating to the half boards to “cover” for you, and the guy in-front starts skating to the near post in an attempt to “cover” for the low guy who has started moving towards the half boards!! It’s comically bad, and its been comically bad since NHL 09.

    Onto the umbrella. This PP should be pretty static, relying on quick passing to setup one-timers. The QB on this play is the point man. The Capitals (who run a 1-3-1 but we’ll say umbrella for arguments sake here) run this play beautifully. JC74 has free reign to walk the entire blue line in hopes of drawing a defender. When he does draw a defender, he either dishes it to Kuzy or Ovi (side board guys WHO DONT MOVE TO THE POINT TO COVER JC) who can either shoot it or look for the cross ice pass to one another. These two guys are constantly going a little higher or lower depending on where the passing lane is. Normally, if JC walks right towards Kuzy, Ovi slides a bit up because it opens up the lane for either JC to hit him, or JC can quick pass it to Kuzy who can one-touch it over to Ovi. The low guy (Backstrom) always sets up on the right (this should be something we should be able to set in our strategies) and he hangs right below the goaline in-between the dot and the crease width-wise. He is used by Kuzy and will immediately one-touch to Oshie (in-front) or back to Kuzy. HE IS VERY STATIONARY! He’s a passing outlet 100% of the time, there’s no reason for him to move other than in more complex situations that don’t need to be covered by the video game. Lastly, Oshie sits in-front and faces the puck at all times by pivoting. He is horizontally stationary (mostly) but he will move vertically depending on the scenario. He is slightly lower and screening when JC has it, he’s a littler high and facing kuzy/Ovi when it’s on the side boards, and then he pivots and moves a little higher when Backstrom has it low as he’s now a one-timer threat (Ovi also slides low to the backdoor).

    I know that was a huge, ugly paragraph, but the point is that every players plays in their “zone” if you will. The movements aren’t big on the PP and they’re not worried about “covering” or filling positions. It’s my biggest gripe with this series as there’s such an over-abundance of “covering” that it completely ruins offensive plays, especially on the PowerPlay. We absolutely need to have the PowerPlay revamped, because you can’t set up the PowerPlay as intended, especially with how aggressive the CPU is when defending it. You naturally need to move to escape pressure and find your open man. This makes setting up plays next to impossible when my guys are constantly in a washing machine cycle trying to “cover” because nothing opens up. No 2-on-1 scenarios happen because your guys constantly have their momentum going the wrong way, and are actually constantly going towards covered ice rather than open.

    This is about my 30th post on this topic alone. I haven’t even begun on forechecking and NZ blunders that happen ROUTINELY in this game. If the AI isn’t given the love like shooting, checking, skating, and goalies have soon, then the solid base these devs have built will be all for nothing as the AI’s egregious errors will continue to take away from an almost really solid game experience. 19 and especially 20 are even below-average AI play away from being an incredible experience. Imagine if they get the TLC to actually be average or good! This game would be amazing!
  • boumbidiboum
    446 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    The PowerPlay strategies are abysmal. Sure, they “work” for 1 second after the faceoff, but then they turn into a washing machine cycle. The AI can’t handle that a player is .00000001 inches “out of position” according to them, so everyone has to “cover” for each other, leading to absolutely no consistent or predictable passing plays.

    In an overload, I want to start the puck at the half boards. I want to cut middle to pull a defender, pass it low, then send it either back to my player on a give and go, or send it guy who has to the initial man in the slot who should kick-out towards the backdoor once he sees the past go low. In the game though, you skate to the middle, your low pass guy actually starts skating to the half boards to “cover” for you, and the guy in-front starts skating to the near post in an attempt to “cover” for the low guy who has started moving towards the half boards!! It’s comically bad, and its been comically bad since NHL 09.

    Onto the umbrella. This PP should be pretty static, relying on quick passing to setup one-timers. The QB on this play is the point man. The Capitals (who run a 1-3-1 but we’ll say umbrella for arguments sake here) run this play beautifully. JC74 has free reign to walk the entire blue line in hopes of drawing a defender. When he does draw a defender, he either dishes it to Kuzy or Ovi (side board guys WHO DONT MOVE TO THE POINT TO COVER JC) who can either shoot it or look for the cross ice pass to one another. These two guys are constantly going a little higher or lower depending on where the passing lane is. Normally, if JC walks right towards Kuzy, Ovi slides a bit up because it opens up the lane for either JC to hit him, or JC can quick pass it to Kuzy who can one-touch it over to Ovi. The low guy (Backstrom) always sets up on the right (this should be something we should be able to set in our strategies) and he hangs right below the goaline in-between the dot and the crease width-wise. He is used by Kuzy and will immediately one-touch to Oshie (in-front) or back to Kuzy. HE IS VERY STATIONARY! He’s a passing outlet 100% of the time, there’s no reason for him to move other than in more complex situations that don’t need to be covered by the video game. Lastly, Oshie sits in-front and faces the puck at all times by pivoting. He is horizontally stationary (mostly) but he will move vertically depending on the scenario. He is slightly lower and screening when JC has it, he’s a littler high and facing kuzy/Ovi when it’s on the side boards, and then he pivots and moves a little higher when Backstrom has it low as he’s now a one-timer threat (Ovi also slides low to the backdoor).

    I know that was a huge, ugly paragraph, but the point is that every players plays in their “zone” if you will. The movements aren’t big on the PP and they’re not worried about “covering” or filling positions. It’s my biggest gripe with this series as there’s such an over-abundance of “covering” that it completely ruins offensive plays, especially on the PowerPlay. We absolutely need to have the PowerPlay revamped, because you can’t set up the PowerPlay as intended, especially with how aggressive the CPU is when defending it. You naturally need to move to escape pressure and find your open man. This makes setting up plays next to impossible when my guys are constantly in a washing machine cycle trying to “cover” because nothing opens up. No 2-on-1 scenarios happen because your guys constantly have their momentum going the wrong way, and are actually constantly going towards covered ice rather than open.

    This is about my 30th post on this topic alone. I haven’t even begun on forechecking and NZ blunders that happen ROUTINELY in this game. If the AI isn’t given the love like shooting, checking, skating, and goalies have soon, then the solid base these devs have built will be all for nothing as the AI’s egregious errors will continue to take away from an almost really solid game experience. 19 and especially 20 are even below-average AI play away from being an incredible experience. Imagine if they get the TLC to actually be average or good! This game would be amazing!

    I agree with what you’re saying, AI are not so intelligent and shouldn’t always cover other players. It doesn’t make the game realistic at all.

    I believe that they don’t put more strategies setup to keep it more simple for less experienced users. They should though, it would make the game more realistic and mostly help creating a gap between less technical players and the more experienced players. I think they try to reduce that gap though, so that may explain why they don’t. I don’t understand why though, if a player is better at placing his players (strategies) and utilizing every player attributes, shouldn’t he be rewarded? Right now, the only important thing seems to be your skills with the controller and almost nothing else. I don’t think it reflects what real hockey is all about, we can all see that deking talents are quite useless if you don’t play as a team (Connor McDavid is a pretty good exemple).

    EDIT: I would add that it would be cool if there was a way to setup some kind of audibles plays to certain combinations or sequence of buttons, so that when you press those buttons, a specific preset strategy is activated and your AI does that until you press it again or loose possession of the puck. Something in that vein.
  • Devs are wearing rose coloured glasses when it comes to gameplay.
  • Devs are wearing rose coloured glasses when it comes to gameplay.

    Yea. But I think they are blinders, not glasses. When I read what EA said, I think my jaw did a cartoon drop to the floor. I don't think game companies are held accountable as much as other product developing companies.

    Look at how many games in the past few years have been released "unfinished" or are riddled with bugs. Heck, use WWE 2k20 for a huge example. That game is a bug ridden mess. But it was still released because profits overwhelm quality. Just like EA does, the community becomes the "free" testers. Patch a few things...release a new version next year with promise for a improved version hoping the previous unaddressed issues are forgotten...rinse and repeat.

    Saying the game is in a "good state" is not a good statement. It sounds as though EA has now washed their hands of any game play issues and we have to deal with what we have.
  • HurricaneFza
    466 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Devs are wearing rose coloured glasses when it comes to gameplay.

    Yea. But I think they are blinders, not glasses. When I read what EA said, I think my jaw did a cartoon drop to the floor. I don't think game companies are held accountable as much as other product developing companies.

    Look at how many games in the past few years have been released "unfinished" or are riddled with bugs. Heck, use WWE 2k20 for a huge example. That game is a bug ridden mess. But it was still released because profits overwhelm quality. Just like EA does, the community becomes the "free" testers. Patch a few things...release a new version next year with promise for a improved version hoping the previous unaddressed issues are forgotten...rinse and repeat.

    Saying the game is in a "good state" is not a good statement. It sounds as though EA has now washed their hands of any game play issues and we have to deal with what we have.

    Hahaha, you're right, they are definitely wearing blinders, made out of Vantablack lol.

    The devs commented on my thread a little while ago and imo there was a bit of nonsense. He claimed their philosophy is a balanced sim and 19 had the same tuner as the last week of the beta throught the year. I don't believe any of that. This game is far from balanced and far from a sim. The difference between the beta/initial release and about 3 weeks after that is night and day. The beginning of 19 was great, actual hockey, then they tuned it back to the garbage that was 18, which is the garbage we have today.
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