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New Gameplay Leadership

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Sorry to say, but it’s time. We need some fresh blood, man. This game feels about dead. Id like to see someone who:

-doesn’t ignore the community and the sport of hockey to favor the preferences of the few twitch streaming puck raggers

-can see how current puck possession is absurdly overpowered for a game purporting to resemble professional hockey

-understands that hockey is a physical sport and hits, shoves, and in-close body contact are not in fact shoulder massages

-learns the lessons of past directional missteps, like those made just LAST YEAR by nerfing hitting and discouraging passing

-cares about not enabling LT abuse (which clearly should have been handled last year and seems like it could be easy to tune out, but instead spiraled further out of control due to ambivalence)

-doesn’t think defensive stick use is illegal in 9/10 instances of contact with anything

-cares about the rules of physics—even when they might disfavor more offense

-is ready to actually move on from the same old breakaway glitch goals

-is ready to be done making excuses for no stick collisions (it’s almost 2020, there are self driving cars)

What other qualities do you guys want?
How are we stuck in this dreadful cycle of fighting the same battles? Who’s ready to apply?

Replies

  • I hate to see people lose their jobs but sometimes a stagnant product can re revitalized by fresh minds, new blood and new thought leaders. It is so easy for people in general to become comfortable and almost 'bored' with what they do. We need some excitement and new ideas injected into this series.
  • GrundleDemon333
    96 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Yeah not necessarily calling for anyone to go unemployed. Even a re-org of who calls the shots for gameplay could suffice. It’s all about having the right sense of direction and progress. We saw some bright flashes with the beta last year then the reversion to it after the surveys, only to be undone and take 3 steps back in both team play and balance. The merry go round and/or inaction on the same issues is what feels like monopolist apathy.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Sorry to say, but it’s time. We need some fresh blood, man. This game feels about dead. Id like to see someone who:

    -doesn’t ignore the community and the sport of hockey to favor the preferences of the few twitch streaming puck raggers

    -can see how current puck possession is absurdly overpowered for a game purporting to resemble professional hockey

    -understands that hockey is a physical sport and hits, shoves, and in-close body contact are not in fact shoulder massages

    -learns the lessons of past directional missteps, like those made just LAST YEAR by nerfing hitting and discouraging passing

    -cares about not enabling LT abuse (which clearly should have been handled last year and seems like it could be easy to tune out, but instead spiraled further out of control due to ambivalence)

    -doesn’t think defensive stick use is illegal in 9/10 instances of contact with anything

    -cares about the rules of physics—even when they might disfavor more offense

    -is ready to actually move on from the same old breakaway glitch goals

    -is ready to be done making excuses for no stick collisions (it’s almost 2020, there are self driving cars)

    What other qualities do you guys want?
    How are we stuck in this dreadful cycle of fighting the same battles? Who’s ready to apply?

    Completely agree, but would add the following:

    Stop with the shot rebounds going right on the stick of an opposing player. Also tired of seeing so many successful pokechecks yet again going to the stick of an opposing player.

    Feels cheap and fake and has been around for way too many years.
    Post edited by WainGretSki on
  • Well, I don’t think new gameplay devs would help at all.
    I am convinced EA knows exactly what they are doing, and that this game plays on par with their companywide policy on how their sportstitles should play.
    If you check out Metacritics userscore for FIFA and Madden, you will find something all too familiar:
    FIFA (User Score 1,2):
    «The defense changes of fifa 20 are absolutely stupid. The players dont react to anything in the defense so you can just run and shoot....»
    «I am not a hater, but this game is so bad. Unrealistic gameplay, scripted gameplay....»
    Madden (User Score 1,6):
    «The animation seems to be smoother, yet still glitchy as can be...
    ... Even if I have a 89 overall receiver when the game drops, somehow a guys 73 gold corners blanket him....
    ... Man coverage doesn’t work, safeties miss their assignments all the time. Players can just motion a receiver to the other side of the field and nobody will man up on him...»

    EA has their formula on how to make as many as possible open their wallets, and they are succeeding.
    Here’s one guy spending 14 200 over two years: https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLHUT/comments/dxu7hc/for_those_that_have_followed_the_story_how_i_have/

    In this thread people have spent from 0 – 1 500 over the two months the game has been out:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLHUT/comments/dxdnjy/if_you_spend_real_money_on_hut_how_deep_you_in_so/
    Guess my $ 60 worth of a protest just doesn’t cut it.
    It’s really interesting to see what they are saying to their investors: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2019/10/29/electronic-arts-ea-q2-2020-earnings-call-transcrip.aspx
    For Madden, unique players were up 12%. New players to FIFA were up 7%. Appearantly they are on to something with the no D games.
    I guess NHL didn’t go up, but we got a little nod: «We also saw growth across our broader EA SPORTS portfolio with innovations in NHL 20 delivering for hockey fans, Hockey Ultimate Team grew year-over-year in Q2»
    That last bit is the important one, right? If you read through the transcript, you’ll see they are spouting numbers like unique players for Ultimate Team. Meaning, when they gut all the other modes (outdoor games in clown gear, VS still P2P), they are succeeding.
    They brag about number of Ultimate Team Games being played, while their players are saying that their weekend leagues, and what not, are just too much.
    EA dosen’t care, in fact it’s another success factor for them.
    Nah, a new dev team wouldn’t help at all. If that were to happen, it would be because HUT sales were lagging. Any dev team hired under those circumstances would not benefit gameplay.
    They ARE making money, thus the game play is in a good place.

  • A company that doesn’t ignore an entire game mode since they severely downgraded said game mode 6 years ago would be amazing to see.

    Or one that understands the game of hockey and how it is played and the rules.

    And your first point is definitely one that every company should have, especially the million dollar ones like EA
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    Well, I don’t think new gameplay devs would help at all.
    I am convinced EA knows exactly what they are doing, and that this game plays on par with their companywide policy on how their sportstitles should play.
    If you check out Metacritics userscore for FIFA and Madden, you will find something all too familiar:
    FIFA (User Score 1,2):
    «The defense changes of fifa 20 are absolutely stupid. The players dont react to anything in the defense so you can just run and shoot....»
    «I am not a hater, but this game is so bad. Unrealistic gameplay, scripted gameplay....»
    Madden (User Score 1,6):
    «The animation seems to be smoother, yet still glitchy as can be...
    ... Even if I have a 89 overall receiver when the game drops, somehow a guys 73 gold corners blanket him....
    ... Man coverage doesn’t work, safeties miss their assignments all the time. Players can just motion a receiver to the other side of the field and nobody will man up on him...»

    EA has their formula on how to make as many as possible open their wallets, and they are succeeding.
    Here’s one guy spending 14 200 over two years: https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLHUT/comments/dxu7hc/for_those_that_have_followed_the_story_how_i_have/

    In this thread people have spent from 0 – 1 500 over the two months the game has been out:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLHUT/comments/dxdnjy/if_you_spend_real_money_on_hut_how_deep_you_in_so/
    Guess my $ 60 worth of a protest just doesn’t cut it.
    It’s really interesting to see what they are saying to their investors: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2019/10/29/electronic-arts-ea-q2-2020-earnings-call-transcrip.aspx
    For Madden, unique players were up 12%. New players to FIFA were up 7%. Appearantly they are on to something with the no D games.
    I guess NHL didn’t go up, but we got a little nod: «We also saw growth across our broader EA SPORTS portfolio with innovations in NHL 20 delivering for hockey fans, Hockey Ultimate Team grew year-over-year in Q2»
    That last bit is the important one, right? If you read through the transcript, you’ll see they are spouting numbers like unique players for Ultimate Team. Meaning, when they gut all the other modes (outdoor games in clown gear, VS still P2P), they are succeeding.
    They brag about number of Ultimate Team Games being played, while their players are saying that their weekend leagues, and what not, are just too much.
    EA dosen’t care, in fact it’s another success factor for them.
    Nah, a new dev team wouldn’t help at all. If that were to happen, it would be because HUT sales were lagging. Any dev team hired under those circumstances would not benefit gameplay.
    They ARE making money, thus the game play is in a good place.

    Very interesting read. Extremely worrisome, but interesting.
  • Dont hold your breath.
  • EA has an unprecedented control over their playerbase. And by playerbase I mean the HUT crowd.
    Their old playerbase, the sportsfans looking for a good representation of their favorite sports seems to be dwindling away. Who cares, though? HUT sales are going up every year.
    Seems like EA can do whatever they want. Put up a weekly tournament requiring you to play 40 games every weekend? No problem, players will eat that up.
    Set up a grindmachine like squad battles? Sure, you can even let it be a mindnumbing offline mode.
    Put up one player for $100? Yeah, that’s easy money, honey!
    Looking at this circus from an investors point of view, it’s amazing. These games are the most brilliant ever to be made. Outlooks are good too - EA are saying they will double down on the ultimate team modes. Only thing missing is monetization of the vanity items. For now, EA are saying «not this year», but it’s in the pipeline. Rating? A strong buy recommendation.
    As a player from the old customer base, this is disheartening to watch. I think they are destroying the game. Yet, sales are going up.
    Sure, the user ratings are dismal. One would think that games rating at 1.2 and 1.6 would suffer a quiet death. Still, EA can report of an increase in sales? I really don’t get this. Must be the old playerbase giving the ratings, while the new ones are busy looking up their CC number.
    If EA would only leave the gameplay itself alone, I would have had no problem with any of this. If only the game played fair, they could be pricing their packs however they wanted, set up tournaments demanding every last minute of your spare time and reqiure you to log in 4 times a day, to get the next ultra diamond super duper pack.
    I wouldn’t be buying packs or trying to squeeze 40 games out of a weekend. But I would be there, happily chugging along in division 8, enjoying the great challenge of going up against all the players on the crazy wagon. And by doing so, raising the number of HUT games being played, creating a deeper pool of players for the CC warriors to beat and widen the base for both Vs and EASHL.
    I think there are a lot of players out there like me. The only thing we need, is a fair playing game, where defence actually matters.
    As of now, whenever I get the urge, I watch Twitch for a few minutes and I’m instantly cured.
    Please EA! Look into your gameplay. You could have both your old playerbase back and keep on focusing on the spenders in HUT, if only the game felt like it was playing fair.


  • Who says that Hut sales going up every year ? You have any serious information about that sales or profit ?
  • Sorry to say, but it’s time. We need some fresh blood, man. This game feels about dead. Id like to see someone who:

    -doesn’t ignore the community and the sport of hockey to favor the preferences of the few twitch streaming puck raggers

    -can see how current puck possession is absurdly overpowered for a game purporting to resemble professional hockey

    -understands that hockey is a physical sport and hits, shoves, and in-close body contact are not in fact shoulder massages

    -learns the lessons of past directional missteps, like those made just LAST YEAR by nerfing hitting and discouraging passing

    -cares about not enabling LT abuse (which clearly should have been handled last year and seems like it could be easy to tune out, but instead spiraled further out of control due to ambivalence)

    -doesn’t think defensive stick use is illegal in 9/10 instances of contact with anything

    -cares about the rules of physics—even when they might disfavor more offense

    -is ready to actually move on from the same old breakaway glitch goals

    -is ready to be done making excuses for no stick collisions (it’s almost 2020, there are self driving cars)

    What other qualities do you guys want?
    How are we stuck in this dreadful cycle of fighting the same battles? Who’s ready to apply?

    1.) The community is fickle and a great deal of the time shouldn't be listened to. Now if you posting real life footage and detailing how things should play out proper in the game then sure listen to that, but if it's things like no helmet whining then those can be thrown under the bus.

    2.) Puck possession is fine as it is. I play as a 6ft 178 twf and I can bump people off the puck just fine. If they steer away and/or have high puck control and keep the puck that is just good on their part.

    3.) Overall hitting isn't really in too bad of a position overall. Just be smart and you can succeed easily with hitting.

    4.) Yeah got no answer for their reasons behind not so smart changes (improved goalies) lol

    5.) Should have been dealt with more harshly before the game even came out, but obviously they seem to think it's OK as it is.

    6.) There is no pressure sensitive buttons to really determine what are light and hard actions with the stick when it comes to poking. Trust me for years I have asked for a system where tapping would be a baby type move that works with low success and holding down for a more powerful and sometimes dangerous poke. (stats depending since we know they account into where you poke at times)

    7.) Physics aren't as bad as we would like to believe. It could be worse

    8.) Glitch goals will ALWAYS exist because people simply learn patterns of the AI. Each year they could fix a move and people just find another move that works. If they bring back spider-man goalies then the complaints would just get it nerfed to the ground in little to no time and lots of legit chances then also get robbed

    9.) Not a fan of stick collisions becoming a thing. We don't have 100% control over the stick. I mean if it were a thing I'd just run into defense so their sticks wouldn't interfere with a person cutting to the net because there is no interference for running into people as long as you don't push up to hit.

    My thoughts is this.... People will always find a way to abuse mechanics in a game. We all want a better hockey experience but trust me when I say this.... there are some terrible people at this game and EA has to think about how to also appease them with stupid gimmicks and things built in to make them feel good so they keep buying the game.

    All the EA Sports titles have become worse and worse as the years go on. FIFA their bread and butter seller has so many complaints also. NBA Live...well that didn't even come out for whatever reason. Madden is doing Ok-ish I guess. It's obvious their focus is more on Ultimate Team related things because that is the shareholders moneymakers.

    Hockey won't ever see any competition either because fighting over 1mil people just isn't worth the investment. I mean it gets no love at E3 because it's probably deemed as a niche title. If they truly wanted to create an amazing experience of a hockey game I believe they could do it in 3-4yrs time.

  • Froommey wrote: »
    Who says that Hut sales going up every year ? You have any serious information about that sales or profit ?

    It's in the earnings call transcript I linked to earlier in this thread: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2019/10/29/electronic-arts-ea-q2-2020-earnings-call-transcrip.aspx

    Here's some outtakes for you from Blake Jorgensen -- Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer
    «Live service strength in Ultimate Team, The Sims 4, Apex Legends and FIFA Online drove performance significantly above last year. I'll report our results on a GAAP basis then use our operational measure of net bookings»
    «Looking at each of the components of this year's digital -- for this quarter's digital net bookings, in turn, live service net bookings were up 50% year-on-year, to $493 million, another new Q2 record. The increase was driven by Apex Legends, Ultimate Team in Madden, FIFA and NHL, the Sims 4, and FIFA Online...»
    «Ultimate Team net bookings grew strongly this year...»


    I recommend reading the whole transcript, though. Gives you a great look into how EA view their games, they are also touching on future plans.
  • Froommey
    800 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Have read above your post now. Sad to see about such people which are out of control to spend money for such useless thing. It’s an addiction, same as you went to Casino to play with a Slot machine. Maybe worser than with this cards you can win nothing. Many of them maybe can never stop and getting into a financial Desaster.
  • Froommey wrote: »
    Have read above your post now. Sad to see about such people which are out of control to spend money for such useless thing. It’s an addiction, same as you went to Casino to play with a Slot machine.
    Yes, addiction out of control is an ugly thing. That's why we normally have regulations on gambling, alcohol and such. These lootboxes, however, fall into a grey area of the law.
    Authorities around the world are slowly catching up, and there are discussions regarding if and how to regulate this fairly new, but huge market.
    Froommey wrote: »
    Maybe worser than with this cards you can win nothing.
    Exactly! Believe it not, but that's one of the arguments why this is not gambling:
    "France – ARJEL, the Regulatory Authority for Gaming, ruled that loot boxes do not fall within the legal definition of gambling, its reasoning being that items obtained through loot boxes have no value in the real-world" link
    For Denmark:
    Loot boxes must - like other forms of gambling - have a license if the following three criteria are met
    There must be a deposit
    There must be an element of coincidence
    There must be a win (if the prize is a virtual item, it should be able to translate it into financial terms)
    link
    The gaming companies have managed to pull off something no one thought possible. To have people spend a lot of money, without any chance of recieving anything of value. Our laws aren't made for this level of stupid carelesness around money. ;)
    I say that with a little wink, because what makes this situation seem like a well crafted scam, performed on a mentally challenged victim, is the notion that a virtual item can't have any value in it self. Of course it can!

    Until our lawmakers embraces that fact, I fear we are stuck with neglected modes and questionable gameplay.
  • Froommey
    800 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    SpillGal wrote: »
    Froommey wrote: »
    Have read above your post now. Sad to see about such people which are out of control to spend money for such useless thing. It’s an addiction, same as you went to Casino to play with a Slot machine.
    Yes, addiction out of control is an ugly thing. That's why we normally have regulations on gambling, alcohol and such. These lootboxes, however, fall into a grey area of the law.
    Authorities around the world are slowly catching up, and there are discussions regarding if and how to regulate this fairly new, but huge market.
    Froommey wrote: »
    Maybe worser than with this cards you can win nothing.
    Exactly! Believe it not, but that's one of the arguments why this is not gambling:
    "France – ARJEL, the Regulatory Authority for Gaming, ruled that loot boxes do not fall within the legal definition of gambling, its reasoning being that items obtained through loot boxes have no value in the real-world" link
    For Denmark:
    Loot boxes must - like other forms of gambling - have a license if the following three criteria are met
    There must be a deposit
    There must be an element of coincidence
    There must be a win (if the prize is a virtual item, it should be able to translate it into financial terms)
    link
    The gaming companies have managed to pull off something no one thought possible. To have people spend a lot of money, without any chance of recieving anything of value. Our laws aren't made for this level of stupid carelesness around money. ;)
    I say that with a little wink, because what makes this situation seem like a well crafted scam, performed on a mentally challenged victim, is the notion that a virtual item can't have any value in it self. Of course it can!

    Until our lawmakers embraces that fact, I fear we are stuck with neglected modes and questionable gameplay.

    I see you are well informed. It’s a pity that the law doing, can or want not doing something against. It is destroying life’s
  • Do you mean offline modes are dead? No innovation, no upgrade?

    In my opinion current building team do not know how profi hockey play.
    There are so much differents with puck speed, passes system is absolutely bad too, horrible shooting system do not accept any different between elite snipers. Goalies are absolutely dumb on many cases.
    Yes, of course the Fifa is not real too.

    EA sports games are good. Many times before it was quality product + respect brand. This time is quality product only. It is very good standard for many peoples who do not know about hockey nothing. On otherhand it is not the same title as StarWars where you can use your fantasy, because scifi is fantasy always. The bring new starwars jedi from EA is very good game, I am now playing this. It is not only about money. EA sports are missing any better AI project.

    If any proffessional player will not help directly to development this game will not better in the future, I think.
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    Froommey wrote: »
    Have read above your post now. Sad to see about such people which are out of control to spend money for such useless thing. It’s an addiction, same as you went to Casino to play with a Slot machine.
    Yes, addiction out of control is an ugly thing. That's why we normally have regulations on gambling, alcohol and such. These lootboxes, however, fall into a grey area of the law.
    Authorities around the world are slowly catching up, and there are discussions regarding if and how to regulate this fairly new, but huge market.
    Froommey wrote: »
    Maybe worser than with this cards you can win nothing.
    Exactly! Believe it not, but that's one of the arguments why this is not gambling:
    "France – ARJEL, the Regulatory Authority for Gaming, ruled that loot boxes do not fall within the legal definition of gambling, its reasoning being that items obtained through loot boxes have no value in the real-world" link
    For Denmark:
    Loot boxes must - like other forms of gambling - have a license if the following three criteria are met
    There must be a deposit
    There must be an element of coincidence
    There must be a win (if the prize is a virtual item, it should be able to translate it into financial terms)
    link
    The gaming companies have managed to pull off something no one thought possible. To have people spend a lot of money, without any chance of recieving anything of value. Our laws aren't made for this level of stupid carelesness around money. ;)
    I say that with a little wink, because what makes this situation seem like a well crafted scam, performed on a mentally challenged victim, is the notion that a virtual item can't have any value in it self. Of course it can!

    Until our lawmakers embraces that fact, I fear we are stuck with neglected modes and questionable gameplay.

    Not too hard to understand. All these loot box stories are based on the exact same formula that preys on gamblers. Don't understand why those governments don't realize this....
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    Froommey wrote: »
    Have read above your post now. Sad to see about such people which are out of control to spend money for such useless thing. It’s an addiction, same as you went to Casino to play with a Slot machine.
    Yes, addiction out of control is an ugly thing. That's why we normally have regulations on gambling, alcohol and such. These lootboxes, however, fall into a grey area of the law.
    Authorities around the world are slowly catching up, and there are discussions regarding if and how to regulate this fairly new, but huge market.
    Froommey wrote: »
    Maybe worser than with this cards you can win nothing.
    Exactly! Believe it not, but that's one of the arguments why this is not gambling:
    "France – ARJEL, the Regulatory Authority for Gaming, ruled that loot boxes do not fall within the legal definition of gambling, its reasoning being that items obtained through loot boxes have no value in the real-world" link
    For Denmark:
    Loot boxes must - like other forms of gambling - have a license if the following three criteria are met
    There must be a deposit
    There must be an element of coincidence
    There must be a win (if the prize is a virtual item, it should be able to translate it into financial terms)
    link
    The gaming companies have managed to pull off something no one thought possible. To have people spend a lot of money, without any chance of recieving anything of value. Our laws aren't made for this level of stupid carelesness around money. ;)
    I say that with a little wink, because what makes this situation seem like a well crafted scam, performed on a mentally challenged victim, is the notion that a virtual item can't have any value in it self. Of course it can!

    Until our lawmakers embraces that fact, I fear we are stuck with neglected modes and questionable gameplay.

    Not too hard to understand. All these loot box stories are based on the exact same formula that preys on gamblers. Don't understand why those governments don't realize this....

    You nail it to 100%. Governments need to check this again.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4436 posts EA Community Manager
    Let's try to remain on topic with OP's feedback about game features. If this discussions continues to go off-topic (gambling, government policies) that will result in this post being closed.

    Thanks.
  • Seems like the contact and nudging people off the puck is indeed fixed on the PS4. i played last night and contact seems alot better than it was a month ago. It is more effective. I was nudging people pretty decently with my Sniper. Even laid out a few that didn't get out of the way in time. Improved over 19 imo.
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    Do you mean offline modes are dead? No innovation, no upgrade?

    In my opinion current building team do not know how profi hockey play.
    There are so much differents with puck speed, passes system is absolutely bad too, horrible shooting system do not accept any different between elite snipers. Goalies are absolutely dumb on many cases.
    Yes, of course the Fifa is not real too.

    EA sports games are good. Many times before it was quality product + respect brand. This time is quality product only. It is very good standard for many peoples who do not know about hockey nothing. On otherhand it is not the same title as StarWars where you can use your fantasy, because scifi is fantasy always. The bring new starwars jedi from EA is very good game, I am now playing this. It is not only about money. EA sports are missing any better AI project.

    If any proffessional player will not help directly to development this game will not better in the future, I think.

    If you're speaking offline you can certainly make difference between players tangible and make elite shooters play like elite shooters.
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