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NHL 20 Gameplay Discussion

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  • NHLDev wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    For myself, I'd like to see auto-saucers toned down. I mean, we already have a saucer pass function (RB/R1). Why does it also have to be on the LT/L1? At the very least, make "auto-saucers" be a trait you can either equip, or that certain "special" players noted for their superior passing ability (like Gretzky) have activated on their HUT cards.

    The saucer on RT is essentially a trait. In HUT and VS, the base rating for that threshold is slightly lower but it does behave better the better your players passing rating and is used as a player differentiation piece rather than to just help people make passes easier.

    The problem is that auto-saucering doesn't always make passes better. Sometimes it makes them much much worse, even though the user has no control over when the effect kicks in.

    Here, what should be an easy pass freeing my center to break in on the goalie alone instead gets turned into a saucer pass to the weak-side winger, even though he's not where I was aiming and even though I just flicked RT:



    Here you can see the auto-saucer in action:




    This is my general problem with the way passing has worked in this series since the leap to new-gen: the way the game manipulates your passing inputs is totally inconsistent, and it sabotages you (by forcing your pass in a direction you're not aiming, or auto-saucering when you don't want it to) way more often than it should.


  • @WainGretSki

    The way I see it, if people were punished for not facing the play and/or standing still the game would open up a lot more and FORCE players to play correctly rather than receiving a handicap. I do not like this. When I play offline, I have a decent slider set-up. When we play online, we play like a real hockey team and never use exploits to win. It is very frustrating to possess the puck for 45 seconds, take a shot, and have the defending team effortlessly, while standing still and not playing real hockey, get rewarded for what they are doing.

    I agree. For online I would really like it if there was alot more class separation. A playmaker should be able to do certain passes, or passes in certain situations that other classes couldn't really do. Using an Defensive D man should be much more useful in his zone than just being a slightly more mobile Enforcer, etc etc...
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    @NHLDev

    I was curious about something and was wondering what/if anything was going to change in this regard.

    Interceptions:

    Are there going to be any changes to the frequency/cleanliness of players making interceptions when they are not facing the puck/play and/or when hard shots are taken? The team and I have been playing 6's a lot more recently, mainly due to us having more than 4 guys on at once. 6's does require more patience and dedication to puck control which is pretty fun. However, I am sure I am not alone here, we have been noticing how completely unfair it is for players to be able to cleanly intercept hard passes/hard shots and go the other way seamlessly. In those instances, the puck should be deflecting off sticks rather than clean interceptions. Plus, when people run at you going for big hits, their hands are up, and they still are able to block passes too frequently.

    A few examples:

    1. Brad takes a slap shot from the point, the puck is on the ice, it is definitely not a muffin, the defending center intercepts the pass as if it was a soft pass and heads the other way on the counter attack. In a situation like this, while it is a defensive play, it is overpowering offence because the defending team is getting a counter attack when the puck should be deflected causing a loose puck rather than a clean steal. I mean, at the very least, the puck should be bobbled or something. Brad, our Dman, is still stuck in his animation and they get an odd man rush. It is very frustrating because it is nearly impossible to stop this from happening.
    2. I play center and often possess the puck down low. Sometimes, of course, I get the puck and have only a few moments to make a play. A defender is coming at me going for a big hit, his hands are up, and I recognize this. I prepare to make a pass along the boards or to an open teammate. However, this defender gets the luxury of basically doing nothing and blocking my pass plus I get laid out. That is not fair, in my opinion. I should (and would) pass it around him in real life hockey.
    3. We are rushing up the ice, I get the puck from Brad and see my left winger breaking towards the middle. The defender covering him has now turned his back to me. In real life hockey, this is a sure fire outlet pass. In NHL 20, the defender can still intercept the puck cleanly. At the very least, should the puck not deflect off of his stick rather than just going the other way?

    Edit:

    Point 4: The way to defend as a team in this game is to stand still in the middle of the Dzone. That is fine. However, shots are blocked and almost always go the other way seamlessly. Should shots not be deflecting and going different directions rather than being glued to sticks?

    Saucer passes, elevated shots, both hit sticks and stop dead for the defender to carry the puck on the counter attack. This just does not happen.

    There is always subjectivity when it comes to tuning and how things play out in different hands. There are others saying that after the update, too many pucks are getting through the defense. It all depends on the reaction time and attributes of the players. We also hear players say that we artificially make all rebounds go to the offensive sticks so at least you are balancing out that perspective =)

    If a player is facing the other way, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't intercept a pass. Players receive pucks looking over their shoulder all the time. It may make some pickups more awkard but it depends where the puck crosses you. Some of those pickups from those angles are going to take longer than a pass from your front where you just need to move your stick blade a couple inches on your forehand though so that aspect is modeled. In real life, as you describe, the higher the relative speed of the puck the softer your hands need to be for sure and receiving on your backhand is commonly more difficult than your forehand, etc. but that is something we haven't gone back and tuned in for this year.

    We are however looking at more of that grey area for the future on both offense and defense. Right now both offense and defense benefit from having 'softer hands' on competitive game style in scenarios that it may be a bit over the top. This does promote team play and equally promotes well positioned defenders. It just means that on offense, you need to consider the reaction time and open passing lanes a bit more or otherwise take on more risk than what may be a bobbled puck by the defense in real life -- but again, if we did that, many of the offensive passes should be bobbled more often as well. For 4 minute periods, we already have quite a lot of loose pucks relatively considering the tuning has to be a bit more forgiving and 'heightened' overall on both sides of the puck to play a tighter short period game.

    The latest update addressed overly quick reaction time and inconsistencies as well as made sure how defensive awareness works is more consistent and means more relatively. We also looked at specific pickups that in the best scenarios were able to scale too fast (i.e. ones such as the behind the back one hand pickups).

    As far as when a player is going for a hit and they still block your pass, if the puck hits them with a physics reaction, it is just that. They aren't able to intercept when asking for a hit and their stick on stick contact doesn't register during those situations either for incidental puck loss. So if you do see that happening and want to get a pass through, the best thing is to pull the puck to your forehand or backhand or changing your angle slightly to your pass lane before making the pass. Other than that, the puck may or may not hit them if you try to put it through them.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    @NHLDev

    I was curious about something and was wondering what/if anything was going to change in this regard.

    Interceptions:

    Are there going to be any changes to the frequency/cleanliness of players making interceptions when they are not facing the puck/play and/or when hard shots are taken? The team and I have been playing 6's a lot more recently, mainly due to us having more than 4 guys on at once. 6's does require more patience and dedication to puck control which is pretty fun. However, I am sure I am not alone here, we have been noticing how completely unfair it is for players to be able to cleanly intercept hard passes/hard shots and go the other way seamlessly. In those instances, the puck should be deflecting off sticks rather than clean interceptions. Plus, when people run at you going for big hits, their hands are up, and they still are able to block passes too frequently.

    A few examples:

    1. Brad takes a slap shot from the point, the puck is on the ice, it is definitely not a muffin, the defending center intercepts the pass as if it was a soft pass and heads the other way on the counter attack. In a situation like this, while it is a defensive play, it is overpowering offence because the defending team is getting a counter attack when the puck should be deflected causing a loose puck rather than a clean steal. I mean, at the very least, the puck should be bobbled or something. Brad, our Dman, is still stuck in his animation and they get an odd man rush. It is very frustrating because it is nearly impossible to stop this from happening.
    2. I play center and often possess the puck down low. Sometimes, of course, I get the puck and have only a few moments to make a play. A defender is coming at me going for a big hit, his hands are up, and I recognize this. I prepare to make a pass along the boards or to an open teammate. However, this defender gets the luxury of basically doing nothing and blocking my pass plus I get laid out. That is not fair, in my opinion. I should (and would) pass it around him in real life hockey.
    3. We are rushing up the ice, I get the puck from Brad and see my left winger breaking towards the middle. The defender covering him has now turned his back to me. In real life hockey, this is a sure fire outlet pass. In NHL 20, the defender can still intercept the puck cleanly. At the very least, should the puck not deflect off of his stick rather than just going the other way?

    Edit:

    Point 4: The way to defend as a team in this game is to stand still in the middle of the Dzone. That is fine. However, shots are blocked and almost always go the other way seamlessly. Should shots not be deflecting and going different directions rather than being glued to sticks?

    Saucer passes, elevated shots, both hit sticks and stop dead for the defender to carry the puck on the counter attack. This just does not happen.

    There is always subjectivity when it comes to tuning and how things play out in different hands. There are others saying that after the update, too many pucks are getting through the defense. It all depends on the reaction time and attributes of the players. We also hear players say that we artificially make all rebounds go to the offensive sticks so at least you are balancing out that perspective =)

    If a player is facing the other way, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't intercept a pass. Players receive pucks looking over their shoulder all the time. It may make some pickups more awkard but it depends where the puck crosses you. Some of those pickups from those angles are going to take longer than a pass from your front where you just need to move your stick blade a couple inches on your forehand though so that aspect is modeled. In real life, as you describe, the higher the relative speed of the puck the softer your hands need to be for sure and receiving on your backhand is commonly more difficult than your forehand, etc. but that is something we haven't gone back and tuned in for this year.

    We are however looking at more of that grey area for the future on both offense and defense. Right now both offense and defense benefit from having 'softer hands' on competitive game style in scenarios that it may be a bit over the top. This does promote team play and equally promotes well positioned defenders. It just means that on offense, you need to consider the reaction time and open passing lanes a bit more or otherwise take on more risk than what may be a bobbled puck by the defense in real life -- but again, if we did that, many of the offensive passes should be bobbled more often as well. For 4 minute periods, we already have quite a lot of loose pucks relatively considering the tuning has to be a bit more forgiving and 'heightened' overall on both sides of the puck to play a tighter short period game.

    The latest update addressed overly quick reaction time and inconsistencies as well as made sure how defensive awareness works is more consistent and means more relatively. We also looked at specific pickups that in the best scenarios were able to scale too fast (i.e. ones such as the behind the back one hand pickups).

    As far as when a player is going for a hit and they still block your pass, if the puck hits them with a physics reaction, it is just that. They aren't able to intercept when asking for a hit and their stick on stick contact doesn't register during those situations either for incidental puck loss. So if you do see that happening and want to get a pass through, the best thing is to pull the puck to your forehand or backhand or changing your angle slightly to your pass lane before making the pass. Other than that, the puck may or may not hit them if you try to put it through them.

    Personally, I like the update, @NHLDev, Ben. The puck is more loose, it seems like back skating is less effective. I think it was awesome in a lot of ways.

    I am not saying not facing the puck prevents you from making a play. I am saying that for there to be clean interceptions all the time is a stretch. If the puck deflects into the corner, I rescind my plea here. I know and you are right, 4 minute periods makes time and tuning a challenge but, at the end of the day, I don't see why people need 6-4 games. Like, what happened to enjoying a scoreless, defensive game through two periods? It's like everyone wants to score roller hockey goals all the time.

    I am also saying that defenders intercepting a slap shot from the point cleanly is a stretch too. If you can bunch up in front of your own net and prevent everything from getting through it just doesn't make sense. Why can't the puck take weird bounces off the defenders standing in front of the net?

    To some degree, you target your passes in this game. Giving defenders the time to get ready to smash you because you usually have to turn in the direction you are passing. That means the time I have to make the stick adjustment is almost non existent. I have no problem with taking a hit to make a play. I do have a problem with me knowing what is about to happen and have no control over how to counter it.
  • Man, this game makes me shake my head sometimes. There's really no right way to play defense other than every, single defensive play you make needing to be picture perfect.

    nDKzzlX.gif
  • Steven5470
    355 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    Just another example of that awesome AI logic in this game:

    My AI player (Washington) has a breakaway....will he shoot?? Nope. He decides to pass it back. Even though he had a clear path to the goal. This happens all the time.



    Seriously...he had a clear path...unless there was some invisible defense in front of him we can't see.......ugh.

    Oh, and yes, BOTH players were computer controlled.

    Same game...few minutes later. New Jersey loses the puck...my AI controlled player gets the puck in the middle and will he shoot??? Nope. Passes back again. All the AI does is pass the puck back for no reason. This AI is so bad.



    What else is amazing is how scripted the game felt. I was up 2-1 and, I know, shockingly, the CPU gets a powerplay. I should have recorded it, but I said out loud to myself, the CPU is going to score with a few seconds left on the PP at some weird angle. Guess what, 13s left on the PP, the CPU scores from a hard angle impossible shot.

    3rd period, tied at 2...I even said the CPU will score with under 2mins to play. Guess what? At 1:53 left of the 3rd, CPU scores the same hard angle impossible shot.

    Penalty wise you ask? Yup. Those are still messed up too. The CPU had 5 PP to my...wait for it.......ZERO. So, in 5 games, that puts the CPU PP count at 23+ to my 9 PP. Yes, there is a problem with your penalties. Especially if I'm playing position lock. And I will bet you, if I switch team mid game, you'll see my previous team get all the PPs.
    Post edited by Steven5470 on
  • The AI in this game is absolutely terrible. I’ve spent more than enough time trying to get his game to look at minimum, as realistic as 6s hockey and I just can’t get there completely through sliders alone. The game has some serious under-the-hood issues that need to be addressed.

    Can any of you EA people here explain why your CPU dmen on the weak side routinely skate into the corner to stare at the crowd?

    Can you explain why your weak side dmen on 2-on-X’s stop at the top of the circles and allow their man a free pass at the net?

    Can any of the EA people here explain why you have AI defensemen on both the CPU team and the user team playing 20+ foot gaps in the neutral zone? Is this you wanting to create a super back and forth game, or is this because you actually believe that real NHL defensemen play atrocious gaps like that?

    Why can the CPU defenders not use DSS? Why do they let me walk-in on 2-on-2s or even 2-on-3s and let me get a shot off while gliding? Would that happen in real life? I highly doubt I’d be able to set my feet in a glide and pick a corner if the numbers are even at best on a rush. Speaking of that, why are the CPU dmen so aggressive when they’re outnumbered lol? It’s completely backwards. Super passive to a fault when they have numbers, and super aggressive in spots where they should really be picking their spot to commit wisely.

    Why are goalies so inconsistent in this game? I feel like goalies save way too many quality scoring chances when reaction time is between 35-50. Anything lower than 35 though, goalies start giving up super soft goals from far out. Is there an expected save arch or something you can modify? It’s 1-0 or 7-4 games with your goalies. There’s no happen medium offline without severely limited your players via shot accuracy and reception ease. Why can’t I just have a consistent goalie experience?

    What year do you plan on taking on the AI in this game? Aren’t you sick of watching the same scripted break-ins, break-outs, and neutral zone stalls (you know, the one where the CPU skates side boards to side boards on their own blue line until one of your CPU wings in the 1-4 sprints across the ice for no reason, opening up a zone entry lane) that we’ve seen since NHL 09? I gotta be honest, the super boosts, unreal puck pickups, drawing trips without touching their legs, and heir tendency to make 478 consecutive no-look, one-touch, backhanded passes at 67 mph to setup a scoring chance in the offensive zone is getting rather old to watch.

    Will a relevant PP strategy be added anytime soon? 1-3-1 anyone?? On the PP note, cane we get AI that will actually stay put and setup some plays. I mean, as great as it is watching my team look like they’re in a wash machine cycle when trying the umbrella (closest to the 1-3-1 your game offers) I’d like to see a little more static positioning in the PP as setting up quick passing plays using 0 assist is hard when my four other teammates are trying out for national figure skating team.

    On that note, can us offline players get competent AI teammates again? I know the HUT kiddos like the AI to be nothing but pylons you have to babysit, but I’d like to actually see my teammates attempt to retrieve loose pucks when I knock the carrier of the puck or pin him to the boards (you know, like the CPU AI already does).

    One last thing for now, why do offline slider sets appear to not affect the gameplay every 5th game or so? Game gets incredibly fast, CPU hits everything that moves (well not you team’s AI, they continue to stand still and be useless) pass receptions become automatic. It’s just nuts when it happens and it makes us slider-set guy’s jobs harder. Oh and on that note, why so many patches this year? Can’t ever nail down a set because I have to change it every month.
  • Definitely a huge gripe with this game is AI related. A lot can be tuned out but right now with my tuning I have to really increase the AI aggression so that they challenge shots and put sticks where they should be more, otherwise they just let you walk in and shoot. On the backcheck, the AI never pokes the puck. They'll throw a hit but unless you turn into them they're not getting ya because you're skating away from them.

    One of the most dire fixes is definitely the AI using their sticks properly. They should use DSS when skating backwards to try to steer you, they should be poking when it looks like you're about to shoot, etc.
  • Yeah, I too wouldn't mind some answers to those questions regarding the horrible A.I.
    The AI in this game is absolutely terrible. I’ve spent more than enough time trying to get his game to look at minimum, as realistic as 6s hockey and I just can’t get there completely through sliders alone. The game has some serious under-the-hood issues that need to be addressed.

    Can any of you EA people here explain why your CPU dmen on the weak side routinely skate into the corner to stare at the crowd?

    Can you explain why your weak side dmen on 2-on-X’s stop at the top of the circles and allow their man a free pass at the net?

    Can any of the EA people here explain why you have AI defensemen on both the CPU team and the user team playing 20+ foot gaps in the neutral zone? Is this you wanting to create a super back and forth game, or is this because you actually believe that real NHL defensemen play atrocious gaps like that?

    Why can the CPU defenders not use DSS? Why do they let me walk-in on 2-on-2s or even 2-on-3s and let me get a shot off while gliding? Would that happen in real life? I highly doubt I’d be able to set my feet in a glide and pick a corner if the numbers are even at best on a rush. Speaking of that, why are the CPU dmen so aggressive when they’re outnumbered lol? It’s completely backwards. Super passive to a fault when they have numbers, and super aggressive in spots where they should really be picking their spot to commit wisely.

    Why are goalies so inconsistent in this game? I feel like goalies save way too many quality scoring chances when reaction time is between 35-50. Anything lower than 35 though, goalies start giving up super soft goals from far out. Is there an expected save arch or something you can modify? It’s 1-0 or 7-4 games with your goalies. There’s no happen medium offline without severely limited your players via shot accuracy and reception ease. Why can’t I just have a consistent goalie experience?

    What year do you plan on taking on the AI in this game? Aren’t you sick of watching the same scripted break-ins, break-outs, and neutral zone stalls (you know, the one where the CPU skates side boards to side boards on their own blue line until one of your CPU wings in the 1-4 sprints across the ice for no reason, opening up a zone entry lane) that we’ve seen since NHL 09? I gotta be honest, the super boosts, unreal puck pickups, drawing trips without touching their legs, and heir tendency to make 478 consecutive no-look, one-touch, backhanded passes at 67 mph to setup a scoring chance in the offensive zone is getting rather old to watch.

    Will a relevant PP strategy be added anytime soon? 1-3-1 anyone?? On the PP note, cane we get AI that will actually stay put and setup some plays. I mean, as great as it is watching my team look like they’re in a wash machine cycle when trying the umbrella (closest to the 1-3-1 your game offers) I’d like to see a little more static positioning in the PP as setting up quick passing plays using 0 assist is hard when my four other teammates are trying out for national figure skating team.

    On that note, can us offline players get competent AI teammates again? I know the HUT kiddos like the AI to be nothing but pylons you have to babysit, but I’d like to actually see my teammates attempt to retrieve loose pucks when I knock the carrier of the puck or pin him to the boards (you know, like the CPU AI already does).

    One last thing for now, why do offline slider sets appear to not affect the gameplay every 5th game or so? Game gets incredibly fast, CPU hits everything that moves (well not you team’s AI, they continue to stand still and be useless) pass receptions become automatic. It’s just nuts when it happens and it makes us slider-set guy’s jobs harder. Oh and on that note, why so many patches this year? Can’t ever nail down a set because I have to change it every month.

    Good questions.
  • Steven5470 wrote: »
    Just another example of that awesome AI logic in this game:

    My AI player (Washington) has a breakaway....will he shoot?? Nope. He decides to pass it back. Even though he had a clear path to the goal. This happens all the time.



    Seriously...he had a clear path...unless there was some invisible defense in front of him we can't see.......ugh.

    Oh, and yes, BOTH players were computer controlled.

    Same game...few minutes later. New Jersey loses the puck...my AI controlled player gets the puck in the middle and will he shoot??? Nope. Passes back again. All the AI does is pass the puck back for no reason. This AI is so bad.



    What else is amazing is how scripted the game felt. I was up 2-1 and, I know, shockingly, the CPU gets a powerplay. I should have recorded it, but I said out loud to myself, the CPU is going to score with a few seconds left on the PP at some weird angle. Guess what, 13s left on the PP, the CPU scores from a hard angle impossible shot.

    3rd period, tied at 2...I even said the CPU will score with under 2mins to play. Guess what? At 1:53 left of the 3rd, CPU scores the same hard angle impossible shot.

    Penalty wise you ask? Yup. Those are still messed up too. The CPU had 5 PP to my...wait for it.......ZERO. So, in 5 games, that puts the CPU PP count at 23+ to my 9 PP. Yes, there is a problem with your penalties. Especially if I'm playing position lock. And I will bet you, if I switch team mid game, you'll see my previous team get all the PPs.

    Can't you call for the shot? I'm almost certain you can.
  • Can't you call for the shot? I'm almost certain you can.

    By pressing R1/RB you can tell them to shoot but 1/2 the time they ignore you (just like calling for passes) - if a miracle happens and they actually do shoot it, it will be a twitch flub shot; they'll never deke it in that situation.

    Calling for a shot can also get you into trouble when your selected character is near an opposing player since the button you call AI shots with is mapped to poke checks, meaning you can easily get a tripping penalty for your efforts.

    Seriously though, AI, when your human master commands you to pass or shoot, you do it. period.

  • Steven5470 wrote: »
    Just another example of that awesome AI logic in this game:

    My AI player (Washington) has a breakaway....will he shoot?? Nope. He decides to pass it back. Even though he had a clear path to the goal. This happens all the time.



    Seriously...he had a clear path...unless there was some invisible defense in front of him we can't see.......ugh.

    Oh, and yes, BOTH players were computer controlled.

    Same game...few minutes later. New Jersey loses the puck...my AI controlled player gets the puck in the middle and will he shoot??? Nope. Passes back again. All the AI does is pass the puck back for no reason. This AI is so bad.



    What else is amazing is how scripted the game felt. I was up 2-1 and, I know, shockingly, the CPU gets a powerplay. I should have recorded it, but I said out loud to myself, the CPU is going to score with a few seconds left on the PP at some weird angle. Guess what, 13s left on the PP, the CPU scores from a hard angle impossible shot.

    3rd period, tied at 2...I even said the CPU will score with under 2mins to play. Guess what? At 1:53 left of the 3rd, CPU scores the same hard angle impossible shot.

    Penalty wise you ask? Yup. Those are still messed up too. The CPU had 5 PP to my...wait for it.......ZERO. So, in 5 games, that puts the CPU PP count at 23+ to my 9 PP. Yes, there is a problem with your penalties. Especially if I'm playing position lock. And I will bet you, if I switch team mid game, you'll see my previous team get all the PPs.

    Can't you call for the shot? I'm almost certain you can.

    Certainly you can, but the question here is: should you have to explicitly tell your AI teammates to NOT pass up a wide open breakaway chance with space? The answer is a definite “no” because that’s simply ridiculous.

    I haven’t logged in here in awhile because I see we still are needing to produce more video proof of problems that have existed since NHL 15. As venom recently stated, trust needs to be earned, it’s not simply given. When players like bmh provide constant video evidence of where the AI players constantly lack awareness and make awful decisions, and we are simply asked to give more and more and more, it makes you skeptical that these problems will ever be remediated.

    “Skill gap” is a constant buzzword used here by both EA’ites and users, yet the AI in this game promote anything but in 1v1 modes. You’re rewarded for not passing, gliding a ton and making really slow decisions, taking the same two shots, spinning in the corner until you pull enough AI players out of position for no reason, then making the one pass you need to clap home a 1T.

    On defense, because your AI is either super passive, super aggressive, and without a doubt unable to cover a stationary offensive player on the weakside, you promote user players playing off the puck. But oh wait, your AI have been tuned to be human pylons in HUT/VS so you’re actually promoting on-puck defense while simultaneously providing AI that can’t handle their off-puck responsibilities.

    So these factors all obviously leak into offline play which is which why I bring them up because the online players here will agree with me. Where is the “skill gap” direction in this game? Can someone from EA please explain to me how I’m supposed to play your game? What strats am I supposed to use. Am I supposed to be passive to a fault to make your AI make the right decision even 50% of the time, or am I supposed to be overly aggressive so they understand who to cover, preventing the weakside crowd staring episodes?

    I see so many “if the user runs around, the AI gets confused” explanations when people complain about the AI this game, yet I experience these issues when playing scenarios exactly how I (and any other player who has played or coached at a high level) would I’m real life.

    Have you ever considered making your AI more static, because they clearly can’t handle “reading” scenarios. It’s on honest question, and it’s the reason why I think older games still have a playable charm to them. Sure, the AI is a little more predictable, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing considering high-level hockey is rather “predictable” in a sense. Take for example, a weakside defender covering someone in the slot. Nothing will happen on the strong-side of the ice that will make them skate away from their assignment and go stare at the corner, you know? Or take a 2-on-1 zone entry with back pressure on the puck carrier. The back pressure forces the puck carrier to the boards, and the carrier in-turn throws a slow-moving, 55 foot saucer “area” pass to the slot. In no scenario, will the defender playing the weakside, off-puck man ever stop at the top of the circle to lose all their momentum, nor will they ever shade to the weakside of the guy crashing the net. These are very simple scenarios for anyone who even remotely understands hockey, yet your off-puck AI can’t handle these scenarios. Actually, I’d say they’re flirting around 50% when it comes to not making the play that would be considered a catastrophic mental error for any real hockey player over the age of 12 on those two scenarios.

    So, back to making the AI more static, I see not only a improvement in the AI play which is a huge bonus for all 1v1/1vCPU users who play this game, but it’d also promote more of a skill gap as users could actually play on-puck defense again in 1v1 modes without having to worry that PK is staring at his fiancé in the corner instead of playing hockey, you know?

    I get that the AI “reading” plays is a really cool concept in theory, but they’re reading hockey plays with about the same success as a three year-old tasked with reading an AP modern history book. I just don’t see how a more static AI wouldn’t provide infinitely more immersion for us offliners, nor do I see a con for online users, as glitch goals and other fairly predictable outcomes are always responded to with a “git gud” line by community members that leaves me cringing every time. I mean, clearly the community is content with fairly static/predictable outcomes in certain scenarios, and honestly when it comes to defensive zone coverage, I’d be absolutely head over heels to be able to finally predict what my supposed teammates, who are supposedly supposed to be supporting my play and the puck, are going to do.

    We need more hockey players and less neck beard streamers playtesting this game. It’s painfully obvious that there’s a huge lack of hockey knowledge influencing this game. please, sometime in the next ten years, can you attempt to make the AI even remotely passable/immersive for us people who actually understand the sport? The AI is really really really painful to watch. At least give us some even more in-depth strategy adjustments like FIFA has if a full update is too hard.
  • The whole CPU ignores your request for pass is so damn annoying and old.
  • [

    I see so many “if the user runs around, the AI gets confused” explanations when people complain about the AI this game, yet I experience these issues when playing scenarios exactly how I (and any other player who has played or coached at a high level) would I’m real life.

    This is the crux of the matter right here.

    If you play this game using basic hockey knowledge, the AI seemingly does whatever it wants regardless of where you are or what you're doing on the ice. Both on offense and defense. It's ridiculous! The AI plays like I see most people play this game online: mindless, oblivious and dumb.

    And this game decides Tournaments for 20K$??? Just give people a scratch ticket instead for all the difference it'll make.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    [

    I see so many “if the user runs around, the AI gets confused” explanations when people complain about the AI this game, yet I experience these issues when playing scenarios exactly how I (and any other player who has played or coached at a high level) would I’m real life.

    This is the crux of the matter right here.

    If you play this game using basic hockey knowledge, the AI seemingly does whatever it wants regardless of where you are or what you're doing on the ice. Both on offense and defense. It's ridiculous! The AI plays like I see most people play this game online: mindless, oblivious and dumb.

    And this game decides Tournaments for 20K$??? Just give people a scratch ticket instead for all the difference it'll make.

    It goes beyond the AI and a basic understanding of hockey. There also seems to be a lack of a basic understand of physics along with causality in terms of how certain decisions impact other ones. The number of problems with this game is staggering. Take a look at the debacle that was the WWE game. Enough people rose up and complained online and fixes were made (I believe) part of the problem and why this game is still broken is because we limit ourselves to here and reddit. That's it. If there was more outrage on social media (twitter) then maybe our voices would actually be hear. Until that happens, it's going to more of the "get good", "show me some video", "it's because of the connection", and "there is no god mode".
  • lphabsfan wrote: »
    ...It goes beyond the AI and a basic understanding of hockey. There also seems to be a lack of a basic understand of physics along with causality in terms of how certain decisions impact other ones. The number of problems with this game is staggering. Take a look at the debacle that was the WWE game. Enough people rose up and complained online and fixes were made (I believe) part of the problem and why this game is still broken is because we limit ourselves to here and reddit. That's it. If there was more outrage on social media (twitter) then maybe our voices would actually be hear. Until that happens, it's going to more of the "get good", "show me some video", "it's because of the connection", and "there is no god mode".

    Only disagreement I have here is you can't really compare the WWE2k20 release with this game. That release has been nominated as one of the worse release games in history. This game suffers major AI logic, yes, but the WWE2k20 game was 1/4 completed when released. Character models were from PS3, wrestlers literally flying around the arena, etc, etc. Unfortunately, I was one of people Sony refused to give a refund for because it was "pre-order" or whatever. Chalk it up for a loss.

    This game is playable if you ignore basic hockey logic, but it is playable. The frustration is when EA said they were happy with the game play, yet there were and are so many logic issues that one has to wonder how it made it past EA quality control. While I appreciate them coming in here talking with us, the constant asking for videos is bothersome considering we've been providing the same videos for years now. It feels like a typical rinse and repeat blanket statement from them to satisfy the "EA is listening".

    I know they can't snap their fingers and fix it all or make it perfect. But when the same issues appear each year and EA focuses on adding things like mascots, or three's instead of fixing the AI, it's annoying and hard to believe anything they say.

    A lot of the game seems to be clouded in mystery. I've asked on a few occasions what they (devs) use for slider settings to create a more "real" and "balanced" game based on player ratings. After all, they are the ones who created the game, so they would know the ins and outs, right? I've yet to hear anything and this includes asking the same question last year.

    I've mentioned it before and I stick with it. It feels as though EA is trying to recreate one exciting hockey game in every game played here. In one game you have your last minute comebacks, the amazing breakaway goal, the goal scored due to a bad turnover, the amazing pinpoint AI passing, etc. The game does not feel organic. In the last game I played, I literally said out loud to myself what was about to happen in the game, both times I did that I was right. When you can predict what will happen in a sports video game, there is something wrong.

    I want to enjoy this game. I do. But the AI issues, the penalty issues, lack of offline features, pushes me to other hockey game alternatives.

  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    TTZ_Dipsy wrote: »
    Can't you call for the shot? I'm almost certain you can.

    By pressing R1/RB you can tell them to shoot but 1/2 the time they ignore you (just like calling for passes) - if a miracle happens and they actually do shoot it, it will be a twitch flub shot; they'll never deke it in that situation.

    Calling for a shot can also get you into trouble when your selected character is near an opposing player since the button you call AI shots with is mapped to poke checks, meaning you can easily get a tripping penalty for your efforts.

    Seriously though, AI, when your human master commands you to pass or shoot, you do it. period.

    You won't get a tripping call when calling for a shot from an AI teammate as you can only take those against the player that is carrying the puck. So, even if you were close to the player with the puck, you're not going to trip an opposing player because they don't have the puck.
  • skillz26
    21 posts Member
    Game needs a complete overhaul.
    Every year all modes get worse everytime. Too much focus on nonsense and money making and not on what hockey is about.

    Poke checks should actually poke the puck and not always a tripping penalty and the AI is complete garbage both online and offline and to many glitch goals with no effort or creativity what's so ever required. So many people online taking penalty shots just skate to one side of the ice bounce off the boards and go forehand and all the goalie does is sit in the butterfly position and watch the puck go in.

    Come on EA fix these things and put out a decent product.
  • Can you guys please just simply make it so you can see every player that has played for your team that season on the player stats page for the year in Franchise Mode? I don't know why this was taken out of the game, but it shouldn't have. It's great to see the entire list of like 26, 29, maybe 32 players that all played for your NHL team that specific season. Now, if a player is in the AHL, he just doesn't show up on your team stats for the year. It's only the 20 current players on your NHL roster. This is one of the little things that Franchise Mode people love.
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