EA Forums - Banner

NHL 20 Gameplay Discussion

Replies

  • SpillGal wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    If it was DDA, then it wouldn't be this bad. Remember, the idea of DDA is to offer a level playing field for players of all skill levels.
    This is where I think you are too kind to EA. The idea of DDA is not to offer a level playing field. It is to push players towards spending money.

    The traditional player are spending $60 every year. The guys they are hunting for are spending thousands. This is what the game is made for. This is the reason for them spending $$$ on researching and patenting their system. It's not about staying true to the sport or creating an even playing-field. Doing so wouldn't make a dime more. It would be a waste of time... Right?

    I mean, look at what's going on. Go check out FIFA's forum or Madden's. Or even better, go browse both of them. Users are calling them out on the exact same things.

    I am not able to perform the mental gymnastics required, to look at this as a misfortunate coincidence. When all of the games from the most experienced sports game developer in the world, starts to fail in the same ways... AND the very same developer have researched how a certain pattern of wins and losses, will make players more likely to open their wallets.... AND they are raking in on said players... I am no longer able to defend what used to be my favorite game.

    I think EA are cannibalising their own game in the hunt for their white whale. I also think they are making a terrible mistake and will most likely lose their standing as the best sports game developer in the world. And I think these words ain't worth anything to them, since their busy hunting short-time profits.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Suffice it to say I don't need to be helped. I want to play this videogame on my own merits and skill. I want to be given the tools to use the skills and knowledge I've gained over the years. Especially if I chose to play this game's competitive modes.
    This is all we want!

    It's not that I think DDA is a "good thing" but the idea of a game dynamically adjusting its difficulty sounds like a technological advancement that would benefit videogamers. How often have you played a game and found that the "regular" difficulty was too easy, but turn it one notch up and it's impossibly difficult? Having the game adjust itself in real time depending on how good (or bad) you're doing in your current section of the game would be something great to have.

    Whether NHL used DDA? I'm not convinced... I just think (as I always have) that the game is programmed very poorly and without any consideration for the actual MAJOR SPORT it's trying to represent. Just look at the E-sport seen for Chel. This is the only E-sport where they try to play it as little as possible to actual hockey. Check out the top players and all you see is LT abuse, ballerina dancing with the puck, no passing, no actual set plays. Nothing like hockey.

    Compare it to something like the Formula One E-sport scene. They set the damage models to realistic, they disable assists of any kind. On the race track, they obey the rules of the sport. You don't see them driving BACKWARDS even though they CAN. You don't see them cutting corners and smashing into other cars to take them out. They play as close as possible to recreate an actual F1 Race.

    Even NBA 2K, at the highest level of the e-sport scene, teams will actually play basketball, not NBA JAM.

    This game is a train wreck. It's NOT in a good place gameplay wise. Nothing makes any sense as it pertains to actual hockey. If you try to play it like the sport you're actually punished. it pays more to know what is exploitable in the game and abuse the heck out of it.

    That's not DDA at work. That's just how this game is made. Everybody wants profit, but it pays to understand what your audience is and what they want.

    When Codemasters decided to make F1 for the "casual fan", they forgot that the player that actually plays F1 wants something that is authentic and as realistic as possible. They don't want something that plays like Mario Kart. They don't even want soething Forza or Gran Turismo which is sim-cade. Codies also knew that they would only have a limited audience because F1 is a niche game. At most they have like 2 million people they can reach with this game and they're fine with it. F1 will NEVER sell over 4-5 million copies. Ever.

    EA needs to understand that NHL needs to cater to people that want Hockey. There may not be 10 million of us, but the 1 or 2 million that are here, we'll buy the game if you make it like we want it, not how people who don't necessarily know the sport would like it.
  • Completely agree. I’m playing in career mode. My teammates constantly give the puck away run into our goalie and consistently do stupid things like take the wrong route to the puck. How in the world can this be so one sided?
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    It's not that I think DDA is a "good thing" but the idea of a game dynamically adjusting its difficulty sounds like a technological advancement that would benefit videogamers. How often have you played a game and found that the "regular" difficulty was too easy, but turn it one notch up and it's impossibly difficult? Having the game adjust itself in real time depending on how good (or bad) you're doing in your current section of the game would be something great to have.

    For an offline game - this is all good.
    When you play competitive online, and especially when there's money in the mix - not so much.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Whether NHL used DDA? I'm not convinced... I just think (as I always have) that the game is programmed very poorly and without any consideration for the actual MAJOR SPORT it's trying to represent. Just look at the E-sport seen for Chel. This is the only E-sport where they try to play it as little as possible to actual hockey. Check out the top players and all you see is LT abuse, ballerina dancing with the puck, no passing, no actual set plays. Nothing like hockey.

    Why not both? What makes you think this isn't a poorly programed game - with DDA?
    I know I have, just as you, had too many games, where you pepper the goalie with everything you've got.
    Outside shots, dekes, double one-timers, blue line shots... you name it. Then your opponent just barely makes it across your blueline and throws a wrister for an instant goal.
    Yes, this can happen... It's part of hockey! But 8 out of 10 is just too much. That's DDA for you... Turning the RNG against you.

    Then, to adress the badly programmed game part. There's no good reason, that I can see, behind EA's choice of leaving the glorious first two weeks of 19 behind.
    Personally, I was not gonna buy that game, but the rose garden this forum suddenly turned into, made me go get it. Of course, EA then made a 180 and went back to protecting whoever holds their stick out to the side. I haven't seen anyone thanking them for their choice. Still, they keep with it....? Why?
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Compare it to something like the Formula One E-sport scene. They set the damage models to realistic, they disable assists of any kind. On the race track, they obey the rules of the sport. You don't see them driving BACKWARDS even though they CAN. You don't see them cutting corners and smashing into other cars to take them out. They play as close as possible to recreate an actual F1 Race.

    I think this is why. If you take any reconsideration for the actual game out of the equation, it's a lot easier for EA to control the outcome of a game.
    Now, they can let one team keep the puck, no matter what, while the other team gets swarmed everytime they're near it.
    You ever been up against a puck hog, trying to give him some of his own medicine back, only, it dosen't work? Well, welcome to EA sports - it's in the game!

    This is the problem, right? All we want is a fair playing ground, and it's not being given to us.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    This game is a train wreck. It's NOT in a good place gameplay wise. Nothing makes any sense as it pertains to actual hockey. If you try to play it like the sport you're actually punished. it pays more to know what is exploitable in the game and abuse the heck out of it.

    Well, this goes for any poorly programmed game, dosen't it?
    Apparently, this also goes for both FIFA and Madden. I do not think this is a coincidence. This is exactly what EA consider to be a money making game.
    It would be easy for you, as a long time player, to "abuse the heck" out of the exploitable mechanics of this game. Most likely, you have, just like me, allready tried this. It doesn't work, right? So, why not? Could it be DDA?
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    That's not DDA at work. That's just how this game is made. Everybody wants profit, but it pays to understand what your audience is and what they want.
    That's the general thought and the whole reason for EA to spend money on researching whether the general thought is the truth. They obviously figured something out. If not, there wouldn't be a patent.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    When Codemasters decided to make F1 for the "casual fan", they forgot that the player that actually plays F1 wants something that is authentic and as realistic as possible. They don't want something that plays like Mario Kart. They don't even want soething Forza or Gran Turismo which is sim-cade. Codies also knew that they would only have a limited audience because F1 is a niche game. At most they have like 2 million people they can reach with this game and they're fine with it. F1 will NEVER sell over 4-5 million copies. Ever.

    EA needs to understand that NHL needs to cater to people that want Hockey. There may not be 10 million of us, but the 1 or 2 million that are here, we'll buy the game if you make it like we want it, not how people who don't necessarily know the sport would like it.

    Yup!!!
    Whenever we see a change restricting EA from making money off of HUT, that's the day these arguments will matter.
  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Ok, I am not going to argue or point fingers. However, I feel the need to point out that way too often, or actually,almost every single game, the AI does not play equal on both teams. There is always a team with better AI and it is mostly evident on the goalies. How one goalie will consistently stand on his head and make absolutely amazing saves whereas the other goalie seemingly struggles with routine saves. It does seem fair though in a way as sometimes I have the all-star AI, other times I have the peewee AI.

    To be clear, I will admit I am one of the people that absolutely does not believe in ice-tilt or DDA in any way. That being said, there is absolutely something going on that makes people feel like there is DDA or some form of tilt. I think that enough people complain about it that it warrants a good looking into and see if you guys can find whatever it is that gives players that perception. In my opinion, it is not people that can't accept losing or will not take accountability for their skill. Too many times, things don't feel organic and feel forced.

    Take into account I base all of this solely on EASHL as this is all I play. But I have seen many people in HUT and/or VS where you can clearly see the AI outplaying the AI on the other team. Certainly does not look balanced when you see the AI stepping up on one team while the AI on the other team seems like its wandering around and not sure where to go or what to do on the ice.
  • Taste-D-Rainbow
    2514 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    My argument isnt that things are scripted. Nothing is set in stone and yes player skill trumps all, but why is it that top end players feel more sluggish when playing lower end players? If Allstar is the most even difficulty, why is Marc Borowiecki catching Connor Mcfriggin David on a breakaway when I know he's 100% fresh, with line strategy intensity set to 10? There might not be DDA but the handicap or broken sliders or whatever it is blatantly obvious.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Bad match making, or just people with poor internet or WiFi etc seem to be the cause of most people's perception of DDA/ice tilt, imo.

    If you guys were able to more efficiently deal with cheaters/booters, and move back to p2p, it would probably alleviate a lot of the DDA talk. With servers, there's always someone with the connection advantage, which is what causes the feeling of ice tilt.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Bad match making, or just people with poor internet or WiFi etc seem to be the cause of most people's perception of DDA/ice tilt, imo.

    If you guys were able to more efficiently deal with cheaters/booters, and move back to p2p, it would probably alleviate a lot of the DDA talk. With servers, there's always someone with the connection advantage, which is what causes the feeling of ice tilt.

    I would like to agree with that but the EA Online producer has stated right here that lag does not affect AI in any way whatsoever. So that to me is not the explanation and to be honest, I remember just as much talk of ice-tilt back when HUT was P2P as well.
  • boumbidiboum
    446 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    Yes, the bad connection doesn’t affect AI. It only make the input delay worst.

    What I found out is that if you have too many synergies activated the AI behaviour changes. They start making more mistakes, don’t intercept puck right in front of them, etc... There’s some weird programming also, like when the AI defenseman go up and leave his player alone in the slot and other little things like that. But really try having a team with no synergies or not many (like under 4) vs a team with 8-9 activated and you will see what I am talking about. It seems like when you have too many activated, the game engine have trouble processing all the boosts during the game. So the Human and the AI have delays in their reactions and miss some puck and all. And there’s also not a lot of difference between attributes, the gap need to be really big to make a difference. This explains why the low overall teams play as good as high overall, they make it that way so that you can’t buy a winning team, it becomes all about thumb skills and/or who is the best glitcher (lol).
  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Ok, I am not going to argue or point fingers. However, I feel the need to point out that way too often, or actually,almost every single game, the AI does not play equal on both teams. There is always a team with better AI and it is mostly evident on the goalies. How one goalie will consistently stand on his head and make absolutely amazing saves whereas the other goalie seemingly struggles with routine saves. It does seem fair though in a way as sometimes I have the all-star AI, other times I have the peewee AI.

    To be clear, I will admit I am one of the people that absolutely does not believe in ice-tilt or DDA in any way. That being said, there is absolutely something going on that makes people feel like there is DDA or some form of tilt. I think that enough people complain about it that it warrants a good looking into and see if you guys can find whatever it is that gives players that perception. In my opinion, it is not people that can't accept losing or will not take accountability for their skill. Too many times, things don't feel organic and feel forced.

    Take into account I base all of this solely on EASHL as this is all I play. But I have seen many people in HUT and/or VS where you can clearly see the AI outplaying the AI on the other team. Certainly does not look balanced when you see the AI stepping up on one team while the AI on the other team seems like its wandering around and not sure where to go or what to do on the ice.

    Goalies, and AI players for that matter, are the same on both ends of the ice in EASHL. HUT is a different story as ratings are involved. Regardless, it's not like both teams are taking the exact same shots or are setting up the same plays. There are different strategies involved as well. One thing that never happens would be the game choosing one goalie to play out of his mind and the other like a beer leaguer. Goalies are identical in EASHL, but the guys playing in front of them may not be. One side is probably defending better and not allowing as many quality shots. I've been in plenty of close games. Which means 2 well-matched teams are playing each other. I've also played in blowouts where one team is heavily outmatched. Either way, it's about how the humans are playing and most definitely not the game deciding the outcome for you.

    I get that people can believe there's a mechanism in place for making games more even, but you're talking about 2 very mismatched teams based on what? Why would the game decide to have one team's AI play so much better than the other? It really doesn't make any sense to have that in the game. Especially not EASHL. There's a very heavy amount of confirmation bias. I see it every time I play, which is mostly daily. Whether it's good friends of mine or drop-ins, people are constantly blaming the game when it's quite clear they're own play is at fault. They say that wasn't offside, that wasn't a charge, that wasn't a trip, that shot shouldn't have gone in, etc. What doesn't change is the AI. They're the same every time but will play differently based on how the humans are playing and what strategies you're using. The human-controlled players make a big difference as they could be calling for bad passes, not getting open, playing way out of position, etc. That's going to affect the AI players.

    When you see one team's defense stepping up, think about what's involved. For one, the carrier is most likely in a good position to be hit. The AI aren't chasing for hits. They choose to do so when it's a good option. A lot of times the carrier could negate that play by passing, changing direction, dekeing or dumping the puck. So many would rather play a run and gun offense instead of make smarter plays involving their teammates. They carry the puck right into traffic. You also will see defense step up more when you make the defensive pressure strategy more aggressive.

    Organic vs forced is a good way to put it. A lot of people force plays instead of being patient and looking to set up good breakouts as well as scoring chances. Forwards take off for the neutral zone as soon as there's a turnover and defenders force passes to them or they call for them from the AI when there's no open lane. In the offensive zone they force passes to the slot for one-timers and abandon their defense who are wide open. Some guys insist on trying to deke their way to glory by forcing themselves through multiple defenders. My point is, you can try to force the game to behave how you want it to or you can slow down the play and pull your opponents out of position with good passing which leads to good scoring chances. That feels a lot more organic, but the lack of patience many people have leads to bad decisions that frequently end up being blamed on the game instead of themselves.
  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    My argument isnt that things are scripted. Nothing is set in stone and yes player skill trumps all, but why is it that top end players feel more sluggish when playing lower end players? If Allstar is the most even difficulty, why is Marc Borowiecki catching Connor Mcfriggin David on a breakaway when I know he's 100% fresh, with line strategy intensity set to 10? There might not be DDA but the handicap or broken sliders or whatever it is blatantly obvious.

    We would need to see video of slower players catching faster players. There's a number of variables involved. There is nothing built into the game to force faster players to skate slower than slower players. Nothing more than fatigue at least. The carrier takes a slight penalty to speed. You'll also slow down when turning. Even if they barely turn, it still slows them down. You also have to consider the angles the players are taking. There's just a lot that goes into top speed and acceleration. We need to see it in action to know what's happening. Which is why video would be crucial for this. There is no handicap. We're not aware of any sliders being broken.
  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Bad match making, or just people with poor internet or WiFi etc seem to be the cause of most people's perception of DDA/ice tilt, imo.

    If you guys were able to more efficiently deal with cheaters/booters, and move back to p2p, it would probably alleviate a lot of the DDA talk. With servers, there's always someone with the connection advantage, which is what causes the feeling of ice tilt.

    We've been on dedicated servers for about a year now. The ice tilt theory started long before that. Dedicated servers have been a big improvement for most. Especially when you consider IP booting doesn't happen now. Also, WiFi wouldn't make a difference when it comes to P2P vs. dedicated. WiFi is not a stable connection in general so moving to a wired connection would most likely make a big difference.

    I play on a wired connection. Not the fastest, but it's solid. Games always feel the same. There certainly are ones I lost that I shouldn't have, but I can see why every goal happens and where I gave them the chance to score. Whether it be taking a bad penalty or just giving them a shot on net, it was my fault for letting it happen. I recognize how and why they scored and try to watch for patterns in their play. I adjust my strategies accordingly. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. One thing I'm absolutely sure of is that it's my fault and not the game feeling sluggish. Some guys are definitely better at defending and cutting off your lanes. That's going to make you feel more trapped and not give you as much open ice to get up to speed. I also tend to pass a lot so that helps create space and let my players generate more speed. I think it's more about how you play than there being actual sluggishness. Unless you're on a bad connection, but that is normally noticeable lag.
  • EA_Aljo
    3229 posts EA Community Manager
    Yes, the bad connection doesn’t affect AI. It only make the input delay worst.

    What I found out is that if you have too many synergies activated the AI behaviour changes. They start making more mistakes, don’t intercept puck right in front of them, etc... There’s some weird programming also, like when the AI defenseman go up and leave his player alone in the slot and other little things like that. But really try having a team with no synergies or not many (like under 4) vs a team with 8-9 activated and you will see what I am talking about. It seems like when you have too many activated, the game engine have trouble processing all the boosts during the game. So the Human and the AI have delays in their reactions and miss some puck and all. And there’s also not a lot of difference between attributes, the gap need to be really big to make a difference. This explains why the low overall teams play as good as high overall, they make it that way so that you can’t buy a winning team, it becomes all about thumb skills and/or who is the best glitcher (lol).

    More activated synergies does not force a team to play worse. If low overall teams played as good as high overall teams, there'd be no desire to use high rated players. If someone with a low rating team is beating a high rated one, that's due to a difference in skill. I've lost to weaker teams myself for being outplayed. I've also beat teams that were rated higher than mine. A skilled player with a stacked team is going to be a heck of a challenge.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Yes, the bad connection doesn’t affect AI. It only make the input delay worst.

    What I found out is that if you have too many synergies activated the AI behaviour changes. They start making more mistakes, don’t intercept puck right in front of them, etc... There’s some weird programming also, like when the AI defenseman go up and leave his player alone in the slot and other little things like that. But really try having a team with no synergies or not many (like under 4) vs a team with 8-9 activated and you will see what I am talking about. It seems like when you have too many activated, the game engine have trouble processing all the boosts during the game. So the Human and the AI have delays in their reactions and miss some puck and all. And there’s also not a lot of difference between attributes, the gap need to be really big to make a difference. This explains why the low overall teams play as good as high overall, they make it that way so that you can’t buy a winning team, it becomes all about thumb skills and/or who is the best glitcher (lol).

    More activated synergies does not force a team to play worse. If low overall teams played as good as high overall teams, there'd be no desire to use high rated players. If someone with a low rating team is beating a high rated one, that's due to a difference in skill. I've lost to weaker teams myself for being outplayed. I've also beat teams that were rated higher than mine. A skilled player with a stacked team is going to be a heck of a challenge.

    That’s not what I said though. It seems like the game have problems processing all the boost when you have multiple synergies activated. The boost are there, but delay the reaction of the players. I tried a low overall team with no synergies, it was fine beside the low attributes of the players making them miss more. Then, tried with a higher overall team with only one synergy, and it was better with less mistakes/misses (only because the attributes were higher). The only problem is when you have like 8 active synergies or more, the game seems to have trouble adding all the boosts. Are they added in real-time during the game? Or could it just be slowing down the calculation creating a delay?

    During my tests, I deactivated only TK (Kept SP, 1T, BL, AD, WM, HT, DK) on my beast team and my AI (and also me) started to react normal (Catching pucks passing in front of them, doing all the auto functions, etc...) As soon as I reactivate TK or TN, it starts to be delayed again. My players reactions (automatic and manual inputs) are delayed and it becomes really hard to play.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Bad match making, or just people with poor internet or WiFi etc seem to be the cause of most people's perception of DDA/ice tilt, imo.

    If you guys were able to more efficiently deal with cheaters/booters, and move back to p2p, it would probably alleviate a lot of the DDA talk. With servers, there's always someone with the connection advantage, which is what causes the feeling of ice tilt.

    I would like to agree with that but the EA Online producer has stated right here that lag does not affect AI in any way whatsoever. So that to me is not the explanation and to be honest, I remember just as much talk of ice-tilt back when HUT was P2P as well.

    Ya, I don't think he's right on that. The only time I experience "tilt", is when it's an opponent who's not in the west while I'm on the west server. I mean ya, he's on online producer, but that doesn't mean anything to me.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Bad match making, or just people with poor internet or WiFi etc seem to be the cause of most people's perception of DDA/ice tilt, imo.

    If you guys were able to more efficiently deal with cheaters/booters, and move back to p2p, it would probably alleviate a lot of the DDA talk. With servers, there's always someone with the connection advantage, which is what causes the feeling of ice tilt.

    We've been on dedicated servers for about a year now. The ice tilt theory started long before that. Dedicated servers have been a big improvement for most. Especially when you consider IP booting doesn't happen now. Also, WiFi wouldn't make a difference when it comes to P2P vs. dedicated. WiFi is not a stable connection in general so moving to a wired connection would most likely make a big difference.

    I play on a wired connection. Not the fastest, but it's solid. Games always feel the same. There certainly are ones I lost that I shouldn't have, but I can see why every goal happens and where I gave them the chance to score. Whether it be taking a bad penalty or just giving them a shot on net, it was my fault for letting it happen. I recognize how and why they scored and try to watch for patterns in their play. I adjust my strategies accordingly. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. One thing I'm absolutely sure of is that it's my fault and not the game feeling sluggish. Some guys are definitely better at defending and cutting off your lanes. That's going to make you feel more trapped and not give you as much open ice to get up to speed. I also tend to pass a lot so that helps create space and let my players generate more speed. I think it's more about how you play than there being actual sluggishness. Unless you're on a bad connection, but that is normally noticeable lag.

    So you're suggesting both parties are playing 2 different games? My connection is solid, opponent is poor. Maybe they're twice the distance from the server as I am.

    Are you saying that I'm reacting to something they haven't done yet? Or they're playing in the past? Because I was always under the impression that the server has to sync all players so that everyone is seeing the same thing at the same time.

    Please explain to me how that's possible with 2 connections a second apart in latency. Please explain how a slower connection can see the same thing as the faster connection at the same time? Because it doesn't make any sense if they're independant of each other.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Yes, the bad connection doesn’t affect AI. It only make the input delay worst.

    What I found out is that if you have too many synergies activated the AI behaviour changes. They start making more mistakes, don’t intercept puck right in front of them, etc... There’s some weird programming also, like when the AI defenseman go up and leave his player alone in the slot and other little things like that. But really try having a team with no synergies or not many (like under 4) vs a team with 8-9 activated and you will see what I am talking about. It seems like when you have too many activated, the game engine have trouble processing all the boosts during the game. So the Human and the AI have delays in their reactions and miss some puck and all. And there’s also not a lot of difference between attributes, the gap need to be really big to make a difference. This explains why the low overall teams play as good as high overall, they make it that way so that you can’t buy a winning team, it becomes all about thumb skills and/or who is the best glitcher (lol).

    More activated synergies does not force a team to play worse. If low overall teams played as good as high overall teams, there'd be no desire to use high rated players. If someone with a low rating team is beating a high rated one, that's due to a difference in skill. I've lost to weaker teams myself for being outplayed. I've also beat teams that were rated higher than mine. A skilled player with a stacked team is going to be a heck of a challenge.

    So player skill can make 85 speed faster than 99 speed?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It's been stated time and time again. There is no DDA or ice tilt. None whatsoever. Games are won and lost based on how the humans holding the controllers are playing as well as the ratings of the players on the ice and the strategies being used. This has been mentioned by game developers and community managers. It's also been discussed with other games that have Ultimate Team. In the end, games are not determined by a script that chooses one side to win when they don't deserve it. If that were the case, it would happen when you win as well.

    We play our own game. It would be incredibly frustrating to not feel like you're controlling the outcome. Not to mention it goes against what we want with fair competition. While player ratings help, in the end, more often than not, the player(s) with more skill are going to win. Not always. There are of course times when one team gets dominated but still pulls out the victory. That happens in the real world as well.

    Ok, I am not going to argue or point fingers. However, I feel the need to point out that way too often, or actually,almost every single game, the AI does not play equal on both teams. There is always a team with better AI and it is mostly evident on the goalies. How one goalie will consistently stand on his head and make absolutely amazing saves whereas the other goalie seemingly struggles with routine saves. It does seem fair though in a way as sometimes I have the all-star AI, other times I have the peewee AI.

    To be clear, I will admit I am one of the people that absolutely does not believe in ice-tilt or DDA in any way. That being said, there is absolutely something going on that makes people feel like there is DDA or some form of tilt. I think that enough people complain about it that it warrants a good looking into and see if you guys can find whatever it is that gives players that perception. In my opinion, it is not people that can't accept losing or will not take accountability for their skill. Too many times, things don't feel organic and feel forced.

    Take into account I base all of this solely on EASHL as this is all I play. But I have seen many people in HUT and/or VS where you can clearly see the AI outplaying the AI on the other team. Certainly does not look balanced when you see the AI stepping up on one team while the AI on the other team seems like its wandering around and not sure where to go or what to do on the ice.

    Goalies, and AI players for that matter, are the same on both ends of the ice in EASHL. HUT is a different story as ratings are involved. Regardless, it's not like both teams are taking the exact same shots or are setting up the same plays. There are different strategies involved as well. One thing that never happens would be the game choosing one goalie to play out of his mind and the other like a beer leaguer. Goalies are identical in EASHL, but the guys playing in front of them may not be. One side is probably defending better and not allowing as many quality shots. I've been in plenty of close games. Which means 2 well-matched teams are playing each other. I've also played in blowouts where one team is heavily outmatched. Either way, it's about how the humans are playing and most definitely not the game deciding the outcome for you.

    I get that people can believe there's a mechanism in place for making games more even, but you're talking about 2 very mismatched teams based on what? Why would the game decide to have one team's AI play so much better than the other? It really doesn't make any sense to have that in the game. Especially not EASHL. There's a very heavy amount of confirmation bias. I see it every time I play, which is mostly daily. Whether it's good friends of mine or drop-ins, people are constantly blaming the game when it's quite clear they're own play is at fault. They say that wasn't offside, that wasn't a charge, that wasn't a trip, that shot shouldn't have gone in, etc. What doesn't change is the AI. They're the same every time but will play differently based on how the humans are playing and what strategies you're using. The human-controlled players make a big difference as they could be calling for bad passes, not getting open, playing way out of position, etc. That's going to affect the AI players.

    When you see one team's defense stepping up, think about what's involved. For one, the carrier is most likely in a good position to be hit. The AI aren't chasing for hits. They choose to do so when it's a good option. A lot of times the carrier could negate that play by passing, changing direction, dekeing or dumping the puck. So many would rather play a run and gun offense instead of make smarter plays involving their teammates. They carry the puck right into traffic. You also will see defense step up more when you make the defensive pressure strategy more aggressive.

    Organic vs forced is a good way to put it. A lot of people force plays instead of being patient and looking to set up good breakouts as well as scoring chances. Forwards take off for the neutral zone as soon as there's a turnover and defenders force passes to them or they call for them from the AI when there's no open lane. In the offensive zone they force passes to the slot for one-timers and abandon their defense who are wide open. Some guys insist on trying to deke their way to glory by forcing themselves through multiple defenders. My point is, you can try to force the game to behave how you want it to or you can slow down the play and pull your opponents out of position with good passing which leads to good scoring chances. That feels a lot more organic, but the lack of patience many people have leads to bad decisions that frequently end up being blamed on the game instead of themselves.

    Dear @EA_Aljo , could you please explain, why godlike AI players, especially Malone, Rhodes, Bates or Peters are occurring in EASHL Drop-In game? Have you ever played against these cheaters? Really nice competition when they are winning games and scoring hat tricks for guys who don't even know how to skate. You destroyed the whole Drop-In game! And then we should not think of the DDA/ice tilt being present in the game!
  • There is so much good that people are putting forth in well thought out posts that are getting attention but my god, to hear that the AIs in any game mode play the same from someone who is in the "know" with the NHL Franchise is more than mildly frustrating at best. Want to know the reason that people complain so much? It happens ALL THE TIME. Defense goes on a skate on a 2 on 2 rush giving the team and odd man advantage, AI players going offside for no good reason, your own forwards blocking shots from the point ALL THE TIME and the list goes on and on.

    To say you play the game and you need video proof of what people are talking about is probably a pretty good reason why this absolute nonsense keeps happening. Someone posted a while ago about an AI Dman just skating away and was talked about for a bit but then seemed to die off.

    I was playing HUT yesterday and played some guy who really had no idea what he was doing at all. He didn't even seem to know how to take a face off, passes were all over the place skated around and did absolutely nothing but yet his AI players were all in the right place making play after play, goalie was outstanding and making unreal saves and 5 times just in the 3rd period alone my guys skated offside. No dekes at the line, no players pushing them offside, they just went offside. HE ended up scoring 2 goals because he flicked the puck on his off wing and the goalie on my end didn't even attempt to make a save on either and let in 2 goals on 3 shots. I had 42 shots and scored 4 goals. Was it because the goalies were so different? No because they were both Carey Price standard cards. Was it because of how I played? No I wasn't in the way to screen or tip anything but was in good position even though my AI was the equivalent of a kid playing the outfield picking flowers.

    That wasn't just this game either, this kind of nonsense happens all the time. Every once in a while, you can even enjoy the wins but most of the time even the wins are frustrating because the AI plays different and anyone that says otherwise is either blind or just simply closes their eyes so they don't see it.
  • They were supposed to fix the AI abandoning their position ,also fixing the goalies not being able to cover the puck buy nothing was fixed ....but the biggest joke of all is the new goalie threat analysis
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.