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NHL 20 Content Update December 5th

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  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Dekes in hockey are, for the most part, used in 1 v 1 or when you're alone against the goalie, not to get around 5 players on the ice. LT is being used as a way to negate the defense by removing the effectiveness of their tools, like the poke, stick lift and hitting so that you can just hog the puck and penetrate the zone, or keep the puck in the corner waiting for the AI d-man to leave his post.

    If you're complaint is that by nerfing the LT you will no longer have any tools on offense, then perhaps the ones with "less skill" aren't those that are wanting it to get nerfed... The amount of tools the offense has to create offense is at least double what the defense has to negate it. This series has ALWAYS been about offense, offense, offense. The last thing this game needs is a way for the offense to be even MORE invulnerable.

    It's not even like you need it in this game anyways; goalies are SO BAD, you can just throw the puck on net and it goes in. Even on Superstar, the goalies are abysmally bad. You don't even need to get around the defense, just throw it on net and you'll score. No LT needed...
    Ok so when dekes effectively don’t work in 1v1 situations cause the deke system is effectively broken what then? You can’t put skate dmen that are way bigger then you pinching and bad positioning are rewarded now if you go back to my post I said you either make smaller builds faster you decrease the bumps or you change the deke system back those are non requirements of l2 but for your stand point you think it should be dump bump trap repeat yeaaa that makes for a really fun game doesn’t it? If someone running a chara like build is keeping up with someone who has a Tyler Johnson like Build obviously people need people feel the need to abuse l2 as far as goalies go yes they are noticeably worse then last year which is something I strongly disagree with I would rather be able to feel like I can beat people and have a tendy make a good save then have a dmen blow a coverage but yet still catch my smaller build I’m speaking of world of chel specifically if you know how hockey works you would see how broken this game is plus cr glitching is still in the game? Should prolly take care of that

    Dekes do work. Again, you have to do them when it's proper to do them. Not EVERY carry. Here;



    That's a clip the developer showed me higher up. Do you see any dekes? Any backskating with the puck? Crosby scores because his teammate saw he was open and passed to him. You can do the same in this game.

    "But If I pass, the defense intercepts it".

    See where I said "Pass to the OPEN man"? Just pass to the open man. Lanes are clogged? Look for another open man and cycle. Not EVERY pass has to be a forced through pass for a one timer attempt. Keep cycling and wait for your opportunities. That's how hockey is supposed to be played. This is not NBA basketball where it's constant up and down rush scoring. Be patient. There's three 20 minute periods to play. Shots on net don't always equal scoring chances. Scoring chances don't always result in shots on net.
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?

    I've played in LG. And teams that complain about the trap are usually in the bottom of the rankings. The other ones manage to do just fine. There are ways to defeat the trap. If your teammates are lazy and just wanna skate through everybody with the puck? That's on them.

    I've played with teams that both complained about it and that found ways around it.

    But if you use LG to gauge your "skill levels", then your logic is flawed. Very few people in LG actually have what you can call "skill". Even fewer have an type of hockey sense at all. Like in every other aspect of this game, the top players there have always been those that could abuse the system to their advantage. Now that LT is semi-nerfed, let's see how "skilled" they are... Maybe you'll see other players take the top spots now, players that can actually play the game properly.

    I mean, I at least want a player facing my pass if they're going to intercept my bullet, and not, you know.. stealing the puck when it's literally coming at them from their six o'clock.
  • Kidnoff
    6 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Tylytys wrote: »

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you.
    Here is the truth!

    Saddest thing is we shouldt even be having this conversion. LT was broken mechanic and because ea refused to fix it all "skill" players just kept abusing it.
    Now after couple of years we are actually talking about if hockey is team sport with passing needed or solo ice dance.


    That's why I totally stop playing Online. It's a real circus, and now we don't have the old EASHL mode. We have that arcade thing with celebration stuff.

    It's not Hockey anymore online. But in Be a Pro with good sliders, the game is good.

    [Socair - edited for profanity]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • Kidnoff wrote: »
    Tylytys wrote: »

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you.
    Here is the truth!

    Saddest thing is we shouldt even be having this conversion. LT was broken mechanic and because ea refused to fix it all "skill" players just kept abusing it.
    Now after couple of years we are actually talking about if hockey is team sport with passing needed or solo ice dance.


    That's why I totally stop playing Online. It's a real circus, and now we don't have the old EASHL mode. We have that arcade thing with **** celebration stuff.

    It's not Hockey anymore online. But in Be a Pro with good sliders, the game is good.

    I hear people talking about about "use the pass button" all the time. and they seem to be talking about drop ins.

    I hate to say it but the guys abusing L2 and puck hogging in drop ins aren't the biggest problem. If they know how to do that they are way above the average drop in player. It takes 2 to tango. Its a team sport and playing a team game requires all members to do their jobs. 95% of drop in players dont even grasp the concept of how to play without the puck. How to get open, how to create space, get into passing lanes, shooting areas, etc... 99% of the time you will be lucky to have a single player on a random drop team that knows how to do any of that. So when he has the puck even if he wanted to pass he likely has little to no options and often forced to do "too much".

    now if you are playing team games in club and having these problems well its time to speak up. But also if you are finding yourself playing games where you never get the puck I would make sure you watching the entire ice (not just the puck or yourself) and getting where you need to be. Again if this is drop in the odds are that if you have an IQ 70 the rest of your team mates are way below that. So just deal with it. This game does NOTHING to teach anyone anything about how to play hockey. They could play 1000 games and they are still as clueless.
  • LAG SWITCHING is the biggest problem. Exploit of the L1 or whatever is second.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    There will be absolutely no pity from me for the LT abuse cryers. If that is your main weapon of choice, maybe it's time to accept that either you are not as good at hockey as you thought you were, or maybe this game just isn't for you.

    Either way, LT abuse is the dumbest and most unrealistic thing in the game right now and should never have existed in the first place.
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you.
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?

    Even as a full time D man, I would be the first to say pass interceptions are ridiculous and incredibly OP right now. The game should be favoring passing and team play before all else. I would be perfectly happy if pass interceptions were heavily nerfed as long as it does not affect players settled and in perfect position to intercept the pass and in exchange bump up the effectiveness of body checks by just a bit to deter puck hoggers. It should be incredibly challenging to keep the puck in a selfish way when the key to success in the NHL is team play and team chemistry. Yes I know having 5 superstars does help, but it can also hinder. Just ask the Rangers how dumping all your cash into superstars pays off.
  • [quote="WainGretSki;c-2105739"][quote="travishughes71;c-2105127"]Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners[/quote]

    There will be absolutely no pity from me for the LT abuse cryers. If that is your main weapon of choice, maybe it's time to accept that either you are not as good at hockey as you thought you were, or maybe this game just isn't for you.

    Either way, LT abuse is the dumbest and most unrealistic thing in the game right now and should never have existed in the first place.[/quote]

    You think that is the dumbest and most unrealistic thing in this game?
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    There will be absolutely no pity from me for the LT abuse cryers. If that is your main weapon of choice, maybe it's time to accept that either you are not as good at hockey as you thought you were, or maybe this game just isn't for you.

    Either way, LT abuse is the dumbest and most unrealistic thing in the game right now and should never have existed in the first place.

    You think that is the dumbest and most unrealistic thing in this game?

    I do.

    Have a good day.
  • straitrypien
    23 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    [quote="NHLDev;c-2104776"][quote="VeNOM2099;c-2104748"]
    LOL!

    I just spent some time on the LG chat box, one user's quote (verbatim) was: "Is there a consistent move that works all the time Forwards can use now on offense?"

    Me: "Yeah, try using RT"

    Him: "LOL! RT doesn't even work! Half the time it gets intercepted by the Defense because they're OP"

    There you have it... And the thing is, according to others in the chat box, LT is working just fine after the nerf. People can still abuse it.

    So once again EA promises they'll nerf an exploit and don't actually follow through with their promise. Surprise, Surprise!![/quote]
    As you can see, there are people on both sides and it isn't all determined by what we do with the mechanics, it is also determined by player skill with the mechanics as well. For some people we have nerfed LT, while others feel that there is more to be done.

    The videos in this thread show all the things we have been adding and trying out as well as describe what we have currently tuned in.

    The only promise we can make is that we are listening to the community, trying some things and paying close attention to how those changes impact the overall gameplay experience relative to how we expect the game to be played. How people respond to and feel about the changes will always be subjective and we can weigh all of that feedback and what we see from the game being played live against our original goals for the game.
    [/quote]

    Just admit that you make more money off HUT players that that abuse exploits of this game than you do the skilled players. When people could actually play defense they didnt need to worry about buying the best players because it was about position and being able to use your stick. No now you limit the skilled players and rewards the exploit abusers and in return they're buying the points to purchase the packs because they are having fun. I've played nhl games since SEGA and have played hockey for 20 years so I am not new to the sport or video games but these past few years of online play have been bad.
  • Lol is still abused ,like I said just like with dancing Mary's let them lose the puck or lose an edge
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you.
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?

    Even as a full time D man, I would be the first to say pass interceptions are ridiculous and incredibly OP right now. The game should be favoring passing and team play before all else. I would be perfectly happy if pass interceptions were heavily nerfed as long as it does not affect players settled and in perfect position to intercept the pass and in exchange bump up the effectiveness of body checks by just a bit to deter puck hoggers. It should be incredibly challenging to keep the puck in a selfish way when the key to success in the NHL is team play and team chemistry. Yes I know having 5 superstars does help, but it can also hinder. Just ask the Rangers how dumping all your cash into superstars pays off.

    This is the best post in this thread, seriously. Especially for EASHL. If we need different tuners for EASHL vs Online Versus, that's fine. Reward players for being in good position and making smart plays, not for being able to abuse mechanics. And that means buffing pass interceptions when you're IN the lane, but nerfing them when you're out of the lane. If you're the player that's on the loose puck first because you're in smart position, you should be able to pick it up first rather than having someone else animate into it from farther away.

    We really want this game to reward smart teamplay and good positioning. Unfortunately, like with a lot of games these days, I feel like there's a lot of RNG/animation-based elements that reward players specifically for not making the right play.
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    You know what else works? Passing! Crazy concept huh?
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Dekes in hockey are, for the most part, used in 1 v 1 or when you're alone against the goalie, not to get around 5 players on the ice. LT is being used as a way to negate the defense by removing the effectiveness of their tools, like the poke, stick lift and hitting so that you can just hog the puck and penetrate the zone, or keep the puck in the corner waiting for the AI d-man to leave his post.

    If you're complaint is that by nerfing the LT you will no longer have any tools on offense, then perhaps the ones with "less skill" aren't those that are wanting it to get nerfed... The amount of tools the offense has to create offense is at least double what the defense has to negate it. This series has ALWAYS been about offense, offense, offense. The last thing this game needs is a way for the offense to be even MORE invulnerable.

    It's not even like you need it in this game anyways; goalies are SO BAD, you can just throw the puck on net and it goes in. Even on Superstar, the goalies are abysmally bad. You don't even need to get around the defense, just throw it on net and you'll score. No LT needed...
    Ok so when dekes effectively don’t work in 1v1 situations cause the deke system is effectively broken what then? You can’t put skate dmen that are way bigger then you pinching and bad positioning are rewarded now if you go back to my post I said you either make smaller builds faster you decrease the bumps or you change the deke system back those are non requirements of l2 but for your stand point you think it should be dump bump trap repeat yeaaa that makes for a really fun game doesn’t it? If someone running a chara like build is keeping up with someone who has a Tyler Johnson like Build obviously people need people feel the need to abuse l2 as far as goalies go yes they are noticeably worse then last year which is something I strongly disagree with I would rather be able to feel like I can beat people and have a tendy make a good save then have a dmen blow a coverage but yet still catch my smaller build I’m speaking of world of chel specifically if you know how hockey works you would see how broken this game is plus cr glitching is still in the game? Should prolly take care of that

    Dekes do work. Again, you have to do them when it's proper to do them. Not EVERY carry. Here;



    That's a clip the developer showed me higher up. Do you see any dekes? Any backskating with the puck? Crosby scores because his teammate saw he was open and passed to him. You can do the same in this game.

    "But If I pass, the defense intercepts it".

    See where I said "Pass to the OPEN man"? Just pass to the open man. Lanes are clogged? Look for another open man and cycle. Not EVERY pass has to be a forced through pass for a one timer attempt. Keep cycling and wait for your opportunities. That's how hockey is supposed to be played. This is not NBA basketball where it's constant up and down rush scoring. Be patient. There's three 20 minute periods to play. Shots on net don't always equal scoring chances. Scoring chances don't always result in shots on net.
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?

    I've played in LG. And teams that complain about the trap are usually in the bottom of the rankings. The other ones manage to do just fine. There are ways to defeat the trap. If your teammates are lazy and just wanna skate through everybody with the puck? That's on them.

    I've played with teams that both complained about it and that found ways around it.

    But if you use LG to gauge your "skill levels", then your logic is flawed. Very few people in LG actually have what you can call "skill". Even fewer have an type of hockey sense at all. Like in every other aspect of this game, the top players there have always been those that could abuse the system to their advantage. Now that LT is semi-nerfed, let's see how "skilled" they are... Maybe you'll see other players take the top spots now, players that can actually play the game properly.

    I agree with what you are saying yet if you have to give people a detailed breakdown of hockey 101, at this point you are just wasting your time as it wall on deaf ears.

    That right there is the problem. People with no real hockey IQ or knowledge of the basics on how the real game is played will cry n complain that they cant score the equivalent of 2 touchdowns per game, skate through the entire team 1v5 and come to various platforms demanding reform instead of educating themselves.
  • Also yeah, I didn't notice a change to the l2'ing. Needs to be nerfed wayyy harder than it is right now. So @VeNOM2099 was right. The videos look promising but the gameplay when you play it doesn't replicate the videos at all.
  • Also yeah, I didn't notice a change to the l2'ing. Needs to be nerfed wayyy harder than it is right now. So @VeNOM2099 was right. The videos look promising but the gameplay when you play it doesn't replicate the videos at all.

    I mean I was watching a stream where the broadcaster was part of an E-sport team and they were discussing the patch... They were all making fun of the person that was controlling the player in the videos showing the changes they made. The broadcaster even made the comment that whoever it was showing the "nerf to LT" was horrible at the game and had absolutely NO idea how the LT'ing works.

    I couldn't help but think to myself: "This is who EA listens to? They try to tilt the gameplay in their favor and they basically make fun of them and throw them under the bus?"

    And I thought I was harsh against the Devs...
  • Treatmentworke66
    977 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Its not surprising on who they listen to I've been saying this since last year when they made the GOALIE'S garbage because they couldn't score the same goals over and over again ..
  • Its not surprising on who they listen to I've been saying this since last year when they made the GOALIE'S garbage because they couldn't score the same goals over and over again ..

    I mean, in a sense they're not wrong; if you watch the videos they posted on what the fixes do for LT, the person playing either HAS zero idea how to do it correctly, or he was purposely sandbagging on how to do it. So how can you FIX something if you don't have anybody in the team that can actually replicate the issue?
  • Treatmentworke66
    977 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Lol I think he's purposely sandbagging it in my opinion .And as for testing it or showing them how it's done couldn't they ask a game changer, one of them is the original LTer and props to him because he did it when the AI wasn't nerfed
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Its not surprising on who they listen to I've been saying this since last year when they made the GOALIE'S garbage because they couldn't score the same goals over and over again ..

    I mean, in a sense they're not wrong; if you watch the videos they posted on what the fixes do for LT, the person playing either HAS zero idea how to do it correctly, or he was purposely sandbagging on how to do it. So how can you FIX something if you don't have anybody in the team that can actually replicate the issue?

    It was quite simple really. While pivoting and skating sideways, you have 0 chance of absorbing the hit. You get lit up and lick the ice.

    OMG. Too simple. Worst part is? It changes nothing for D men who want to backskate in their zone if there is no physical contact. In other words, it hurts no other area of the game except for where it is actually a problem: using it to negate body checks.

    So I will just assume LT will be around for another 2-3 years and watch when they fix it way further down the road. It will be along the lines of what I suggested.
  • LTrs still going strong in this game. They're evolving to keep up with EA's weak fixes. LT and using speed wasn't really the issue. It's the lack of penalty to pivoting at said speed and the unrealistic movement of your body moving almost 90 degrees. Makes it difficult to check and since EA's "fix" for pokes, doing that will pick up a penalty. Now it seems like the LTrs are using the animations for quick pivot stutter steps. Speed is maintained. I'll get a video of it when I see it again.
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