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NHL 20 Content Update December 5th

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  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    So it benefits the community that there is self saucng and Lting in the game what community does that benefit certainly not the one here or Reddit because even there people voice displeasure about these to things

    Self-saucing works against AI players. So, if you're skillzoning, you run the chance of that working. Hopefully, we'll see this fully addressed in the future though. LT'ing doesn't work as well as it used to and can be defended. I know the dev team is keeping a close eye on that and further changes could be made.

    Skill zoning that's another topic,but no I don't skill zone I play my own d and as for Lting I know how to defend it but it's still very effective all you have to do is LT and hold down A and you become Superman.,..those to things are just stupid and it's not hockey

    You can still defend against that. You're not invulnerable when protecting the puck and LT'ing. Getting a body in their way stands a good chance at stopping their progression.

    That all depends, For LT'ing it's just like any other mechanic in the game. Some are bad at it, some are decent, while there are a few that excel at it. Those that are very good with LT still have 0 issues abusing it and being rewarded for it. For the rest of the crowd, yea it's defendable, but not for the average to below average D man. In any case, take Sydney Crosby. Pretty good player, no? Imagine him backskating with the puck, his stick extended to the side while trying to squirt by, say, Ovechkin, or Shea Weber. I guarantee a stretcher and ambulance are scheduled in the very near future for Crosby. There is a reason no one does this in real life. It simply is not feasible without direct and severe consequences.

    In any case, I find it much more defendable now that they fixed the physics problem the PS4 was having. In fact, not many Danglers are left in the game since the fix.
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    So it benefits the community that there is self saucng and Lting in the game what community does that benefit certainly not the one here or Reddit because even there people voice displeasure about these to things

    Self-saucing works against AI players. So, if you're skillzoning, you run the chance of that working. Hopefully, we'll see this fully addressed in the future though. LT'ing doesn't work as well as it used to and can be defended. I know the dev team is keeping a close eye on that and further changes could be made.

    Skill zoning that's another topic,but no I don't skill zone I play my own d and as for Lting I know how to defend it but it's still very effective all you have to do is LT and hold down A and you become Superman.,..those to things are just stupid and it's not hockey

    You can still defend against that. You're not invulnerable when protecting the puck and LT'ing. Getting a body in their way stands a good chance at stopping their progression.

    That all depends, For LT'ing it's just like any other mechanic in the game. Some are bad at it, some are decent, while there are a few that excel at it. Those that are very good with LT still have 0 issues abusing it and being rewarded for it. For the rest of the crowd, yea it's defendable, but not for the average to below average D man. In any case, take Sydney Crosby. Pretty good player, no? Imagine him backskating with the puck, his stick extended to the side while trying to squirt by, say, Ovechkin, or Shea Weber. I guarantee a stretcher and ambulance are scheduled in the very near future for Crosby. There is a reason no one does this in real life. It simply is not feasible without direct and severe consequences.

    In any case, I find it much more defendable now that they fixed the physics problem the PS4 was having. In fact, not many Danglers are left in the game since the fix.

    That's understandable. It might not be the most realistic way to play, but we also had people that wanted more creativity with skating. I think this is one thing that falls on that fine line between sim and arcade. This game is meant to be fun, but still be challenging and require skill. Obviously, being a video game, it's going to have video game elements. While someone with a high level of skill may abuse LT, there's also highly skilled defenders that can stop them. Regardless, LT'ing is something the dev team is keeping an eye on so we could see further changes still.

  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    So it benefits the community that there is self saucng and Lting in the game what community does that benefit certainly not the one here or Reddit because even there people voice displeasure about these to things

    Self-saucing works against AI players. So, if you're skillzoning, you run the chance of that working. Hopefully, we'll see this fully addressed in the future though. LT'ing doesn't work as well as it used to and can be defended. I know the dev team is keeping a close eye on that and further changes could be made.

    Skill zoning that's another topic,but no I don't skill zone I play my own d and as for Lting I know how to defend it but it's still very effective all you have to do is LT and hold down A and you become Superman.,..those to things are just stupid and it's not hockey

    You can still defend against that. You're not invulnerable when protecting the puck and LT'ing. Getting a body in their way stands a good chance at stopping their progression.

    That all depends, For LT'ing it's just like any other mechanic in the game. Some are bad at it, some are decent, while there are a few that excel at it. Those that are very good with LT still have 0 issues abusing it and being rewarded for it. For the rest of the crowd, yea it's defendable, but not for the average to below average D man. In any case, take Sydney Crosby. Pretty good player, no? Imagine him backskating with the puck, his stick extended to the side while trying to squirt by, say, Ovechkin, or Shea Weber. I guarantee a stretcher and ambulance are scheduled in the very near future for Crosby. There is a reason no one does this in real life. It simply is not feasible without direct and severe consequences.

    In any case, I find it much more defendable now that they fixed the physics problem the PS4 was having. In fact, not many Danglers are left in the game since the fix.

    That's understandable. It might not be the most realistic way to play, but we also had people that wanted more creativity with skating. I think this is one thing that falls on that fine line between sim and arcade. This game is meant to be fun, but still be challenging and require skill. Obviously, being a video game, it's going to have video game elements. While someone with a high level of skill may abuse LT, there's also highly skilled defenders that can stop them. Regardless, LT'ing is something the dev team is keeping an eye on so we could see further changes still.

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    to be honest there very few cases to ever use the more complex dekes. usually there is a more effective solution in most situations. the quick toe drag is deadly in the right situation and in the right hands but if you use it too much its setting you up to get nailed.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.

    This 100%.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.

    I also remember the dev coming here and telling us that dekes were simplified on the new gen because alot of casuals complained the old deke system was too hard for nothing. So since it is a "video game" and casuals gotta feel good too, they decided to simplify it. Can't say I completely agree with that route, but I certainly understand it.
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.

    LT'ing isn't considered a deke. Yes, it takes one hand, but again, it can be defended.

    You're right about the LB dekes. Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking you needed to still hit a direction on the right stick. Some of this stuff is just muscle memory and happens through instinct. Anyway, I get that you want the game to be harder. In the end, whether or not dekes are one-handed, in most cases, the player with more skill will win. We can cater to the sim crowd which would greatly reduce the number of people playing or we can try to make a game that is accessible to as many people as possible. Hopefully, someday there's a sim mode for the hardcore guys.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.

    LT'ing isn't considered a deke. Yes, it takes one hand, but again, it can be defended.

    You're right about the LB dekes. Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking you needed to still hit a direction on the right stick. Some of this stuff is just muscle memory and happens through instinct. Anyway, I get that you want the game to be harder. In the end, whether or not dekes are one-handed, in most cases, the player with more skill will win. We can cater to the sim crowd which would greatly reduce the number of people playing or we can try to make a game that is accessible to as many people as possible. Hopefully, someday there's a sim mode for the hardcore guys.

    While I would tend to agree with you on the bolded section, none of has a definite confirmation that sales would be significantly lower. Maybe sales would actually go much higher. All I know is, the sales numbers have been pretty stagnant over the last 10 years or so. The average is 1 million sales. Obviously, alot of people have quit while alot are newcomers as the numbers hardly change over the years. What hasn't changed all that much is the vision and mentality behind the game. So until something major changes, no major changes are going to happen.
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager

    While I would tend to agree with you on the bolded section, none of has a definite confirmation that sales would be significantly lower. Maybe sales would actually go much higher. All I know is, the sales numbers have been pretty stagnant over the last 10 years or so. The average is 1 million sales. Obviously, alot of people have quit while alot are newcomers as the numbers hardly change over the years. What hasn't changed all that much is the vision and mentality behind the game. So until something major changes, no major changes are going to happen.

    I'm not necessarily talking about sales. Look at this forum for example. It makes up a handful of people actually playing the game. There's a very small amount that want a hardcore mode. If that was added, chances are excellent you'd be playing the same people over and over again. Yes, that's speculation so we wouldn't know for sure without trying. In the past, when the game is made to be harder, there's been a lot of negativity. Poke checks are a perfect example of that. There are still many that don't quite grasp how to use them and think it's broken when they take more skill to use.

    What would you do to make the game more sim? Remove all assistance with aiming and make passing fully manual? Would you slow the game down? Make hits not be so big?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »

    ... chances are excellent you'd be playing the same people over and over again....

    Welcome to EASHL club NHL 18 and on
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »

    While I would tend to agree with you on the bolded section, none of has a definite confirmation that sales would be significantly lower. Maybe sales would actually go much higher. All I know is, the sales numbers have been pretty stagnant over the last 10 years or so. The average is 1 million sales. Obviously, alot of people have quit while alot are newcomers as the numbers hardly change over the years. What hasn't changed all that much is the vision and mentality behind the game. So until something major changes, no major changes are going to happen.

    I'm not necessarily talking about sales. Look at this forum for example. It makes up a handful of people actually playing the game. There's a very small amount that want a hardcore mode. If that was added, chances are excellent you'd be playing the same people over and over again. Yes, that's speculation so we wouldn't know for sure without trying. In the past, when the game is made to be harder, there's been a lot of negativity. Poke checks are a perfect example of that. There are still many that don't quite grasp how to use them and think it's broken when they take more skill to use.

    What would you do to make the game more sim? Remove all assistance with aiming and make passing fully manual? Would you slow the game down? Make hits not be so big?

    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Yes, but I think what most people were thinking when they asked for that is the ability to use your stick in conjunction with your skates (like you could on the Xbox 360 or PS3 days), not ways to make this into the Ice Capades... Stick handling, for some reason, got way too stiff. Juggling the puck with only your RS disappeared altogether. What used to take quit a bit of manual dexterity and skill to perform, well now you just need one hand. How is that skillful?

    Off the top of my head, only the spin-o-rama takes one hand. The more complicated ones still require more dexterity. Besides that, you need to know when to use them. Knowing how is great, but it's pretty useless if you can't actually pull them off in a live game. That still takes a lot of skill to be successful. If you just go dangling and dekeing all over the place, you're going to end up laying on the ice.

    Left Hand Index + Thumb. That's all you need to pump the LT and wiggle the LS. One hand.

    LB dekes, only one hand.

    Like @jmwalsh8888 said, you hardly need to use any of the more complicated dekes in this game. LB + RB takes two hands, but it's only two buttons and the actual trigger to doing it successfully is a not as strict as it used to be. It was really hard to pull off a one hand tuck, let alone score on it. Now you can do it basically at will, and it doesn't really matter what player you do it with.

    LT'ing isn't considered a deke. Yes, it takes one hand, but again, it can be defended.

    You're right about the LB dekes. Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking you needed to still hit a direction on the right stick. Some of this stuff is just muscle memory and happens through instinct. Anyway, I get that you want the game to be harder. In the end, whether or not dekes are one-handed, in most cases, the player with more skill will win. We can cater to the sim crowd which would greatly reduce the number of people playing or we can try to make a game that is accessible to as many people as possible. Hopefully, someday there's a sim mode for the hardcore guys.

    How do you KNOW going more sim will lose people? Youd probably gain more people back than you lose.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »

    While I would tend to agree with you on the bolded section, none of has a definite confirmation that sales would be significantly lower. Maybe sales would actually go much higher. All I know is, the sales numbers have been pretty stagnant over the last 10 years or so. The average is 1 million sales. Obviously, alot of people have quit while alot are newcomers as the numbers hardly change over the years. What hasn't changed all that much is the vision and mentality behind the game. So until something major changes, no major changes are going to happen.

    I'm not necessarily talking about sales. Look at this forum for example. It makes up a handful of people actually playing the game. There's a very small amount that want a hardcore mode. If that was added, chances are excellent you'd be playing the same people over and over again. Yes, that's speculation so we wouldn't know for sure without trying. In the past, when the game is made to be harder, there's been a lot of negativity. Poke checks are a perfect example of that. There are still many that don't quite grasp how to use them and think it's broken when they take more skill to use.

    What would you do to make the game more sim? Remove all assistance with aiming and make passing fully manual? Would you slow the game down? Make hits not be so big?

    first, no more one man shows. Make it easier to lose the puck when thwy hog it. Second, make it have to resemble real hockey strategy to be successful. As is, rarely anyone cycles and sets uo plays because its too easy to go it alone. Now i know you're gonna say but yeah it can be defended....thats my point...win or lose, playing against people like that isnt fun. I LOVE Losing a hard fought game that was played realistically
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.

    The game can already play like real hockey. People choose not to though. I have seen many 6s teams play this way. They include their D, they cycle the puck, they try to pull defenders out of position to generate better scoring chances. However, there is a very big lack of patience with people playing this game. Especially when you have AI goalies. Soon as the goalie gets it, you have 3 guys tapping their sticks, calling for the puck and racing for the neutral zone to try and get an odd-man rush. This often results in a goal against when you play a team that waits for easy tap ins from the goalie passing it out.

    That's just one example. My point is, there's a huge amount of people that choose to play a very aggressive, run and gun style of play. That's by choice. Not by necessity. Watch a full team of AI players. They move the puck and try to open up lanes. They use the open ice to their advantage. Something human-controlled teams don't do very often. This game can be played more like a sim, but very often, people choose not to.

    If you know 8 - 10 people that play the same as you, play against them. You have that option.

    Yes. Poke checking is one of the ways the game became harder. There was also a time the "Spider-Man" goalies were introduced and people kinda freaked out then too. Back to the poke check change though, it was drastic. Would you rather a slow process where each tuner keeps upping the possibility of a penalty until it got to where it is today? That doesn't sound very hardcore either. That would be more of a handholding process. I get the change was shocking, but it also had to happen. The poke spam was one of the biggest complaints we had.

    As we discussed before, goalies were reverted back to the beta with the rollback in 19. You have to keep in mind that people get used to the new mechanics and are getting better at the game. They're going to find easier ways to score. By the time the rollback happened, they had a few months to do so.

    I definitely like the idea of more separation between classes. However, when one class is faster than others, it means that class is the one most everyone uses. With speed being the same across the board, you need to rely on your own skill more as well as teamwork. You're going to use your teammates more when you're not able to outskate everyone. In the case of one build having a speed advantage and being chosen by the majority of people, then you get everyone being the same speed which is what we have now, in a sense.

    I also understand wanting more agility and there's no doubt professional hockey players are agile, but we also don't want to push it far beyond realism. What would you do to make them more agile than they are now? People loved the skating of the previous generation, but it was also quite unrealistic. It seems odd the hardcore crowd would want that kind of skating.

    As always, I'm not saying there's no room for improvement or that the game wouldn't benefit from what you're suggesting. I'm just giving another point of view on it. The grass isn't always greener, as they say.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.

    The game can already play like real hockey. People choose not to though. I have seen many 6s teams play this way. They include their D, they cycle the puck, they try to pull defenders out of position to generate better scoring chances. However, there is a very big lack of patience with people playing this game. Especially when you have AI goalies. Soon as the goalie gets it, you have 3 guys tapping their sticks, calling for the puck and racing for the neutral zone to try and get an odd-man rush. This often results in a goal against when you play a team that waits for easy tap ins from the goalie passing it out.

    That's just one example. My point is, there's a huge amount of people that choose to play a very aggressive, run and gun style of play. That's by choice. Not by necessity. Watch a full team of AI players. They move the puck and try to open up lanes. They use the open ice to their advantage. Something human-controlled teams don't do very often. This game can be played more like a sim, but very often, people choose not to.

    If you know 8 - 10 people that play the same as you, play against them. You have that option.

    Yes. Poke checking is one of the ways the game became harder. There was also a time the "Spider-Man" goalies were introduced and people kinda freaked out then too. Back to the poke check change though, it was drastic. Would you rather a slow process where each tuner keeps upping the possibility of a penalty until it got to where it is today? That doesn't sound very hardcore either. That would be more of a handholding process. I get the change was shocking, but it also had to happen. The poke spam was one of the biggest complaints we had.

    As we discussed before, goalies were reverted back to the beta with the rollback in 19. You have to keep in mind that people get used to the new mechanics and are getting better at the game. They're going to find easier ways to score. By the time the rollback happened, they had a few months to do so.

    I definitely like the idea of more separation between classes. However, when one class is faster than others, it means that class is the one most everyone uses. With speed being the same across the board, you need to rely on your own skill more as well as teamwork. You're going to use your teammates more when you're not able to outskate everyone. In the case of one build having a speed advantage and being chosen by the majority of people, then you get everyone being the same speed which is what we have now, in a sense.

    I also understand wanting more agility and there's no doubt professional hockey players are agile, but we also don't want to push it far beyond realism. What would you do to make them more agile than they are now? People loved the skating of the previous generation, but it was also quite unrealistic. It seems odd the hardcore crowd would want that kind of skating.

    As always, I'm not saying there's no room for improvement or that the game wouldn't benefit from what you're suggesting. I'm just giving another point of view on it. The grass isn't always greener, as they say.

    i think its partially eas fault people play how they do. They may be casuals that dont fully know hockey and this game does VERY little to educate newcomers on how the sport works and how to play properly
  • Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.

    The game can already play like real hockey. People choose not to though. I have seen many 6s teams play this way. They include their D, they cycle the puck, they try to pull defenders out of position to generate better scoring chances. However, there is a very big lack of patience with people playing this game. Especially when you have AI goalies. Soon as the goalie gets it, you have 3 guys tapping their sticks, calling for the puck and racing for the neutral zone to try and get an odd-man rush. This often results in a goal against when you play a team that waits for easy tap ins from the goalie passing it out.

    That's just one example. My point is, there's a huge amount of people that choose to play a very aggressive, run and gun style of play. That's by choice. Not by necessity. Watch a full team of AI players. They move the puck and try to open up lanes. They use the open ice to their advantage. Something human-controlled teams don't do very often. This game can be played more like a sim, but very often, people choose not to.

    If you know 8 - 10 people that play the same as you, play against them. You have that option.

    Yes. Poke checking is one of the ways the game became harder. There was also a time the "Spider-Man" goalies were introduced and people kinda freaked out then too. Back to the poke check change though, it was drastic. Would you rather a slow process where each tuner keeps upping the possibility of a penalty until it got to where it is today? That doesn't sound very hardcore either. That would be more of a handholding process. I get the change was shocking, but it also had to happen. The poke spam was one of the biggest complaints we had.

    As we discussed before, goalies were reverted back to the beta with the rollback in 19. You have to keep in mind that people get used to the new mechanics and are getting better at the game. They're going to find easier ways to score. By the time the rollback happened, they had a few months to do so.

    I definitely like the idea of more separation between classes. However, when one class is faster than others, it means that class is the one most everyone uses. With speed being the same across the board, you need to rely on your own skill more as well as teamwork. You're going to use your teammates more when you're not able to outskate everyone. In the case of one build having a speed advantage and being chosen by the majority of people, then you get everyone being the same speed which is what we have now, in a sense.

    I also understand wanting more agility and there's no doubt professional hockey players are agile, but we also don't want to push it far beyond realism. What would you do to make them more agile than they are now? People loved the skating of the previous generation, but it was also quite unrealistic. It seems odd the hardcore crowd would want that kind of skating.

    As always, I'm not saying there's no room for improvement or that the game wouldn't benefit from what you're suggesting. I'm just giving another point of view on it. The grass isn't always greener, as they say.

    i think its partially eas fault people play how they do. They may be casuals that dont fully know hockey and this game does VERY little to educate newcomers on how the sport works and how to play properly

    The game does little to teach one to play like hockey and nearly nothing to promote or reward it.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.

    The game can already play like real hockey. People choose not to though. I have seen many 6s teams play this way. They include their D, they cycle the puck, they try to pull defenders out of position to generate better scoring chances. However, there is a very big lack of patience with people playing this game. Especially when you have AI goalies. Soon as the goalie gets it, you have 3 guys tapping their sticks, calling for the puck and racing for the neutral zone to try and get an odd-man rush. This often results in a goal against when you play a team that waits for easy tap ins from the goalie passing it out.

    That's just one example. My point is, there's a huge amount of people that choose to play a very aggressive, run and gun style of play. That's by choice. Not by necessity. Watch a full team of AI players. They move the puck and try to open up lanes. They use the open ice to their advantage. Something human-controlled teams don't do very often. This game can be played more like a sim, but very often, people choose not to.

    If you know 8 - 10 people that play the same as you, play against them. You have that option.

    Yes. Poke checking is one of the ways the game became harder. There was also a time the "Spider-Man" goalies were introduced and people kinda freaked out then too. Back to the poke check change though, it was drastic. Would you rather a slow process where each tuner keeps upping the possibility of a penalty until it got to where it is today? That doesn't sound very hardcore either. That would be more of a handholding process. I get the change was shocking, but it also had to happen. The poke spam was one of the biggest complaints we had.

    As we discussed before, goalies were reverted back to the beta with the rollback in 19. You have to keep in mind that people get used to the new mechanics and are getting better at the game. They're going to find easier ways to score. By the time the rollback happened, they had a few months to do so.

    I definitely like the idea of more separation between classes. However, when one class is faster than others, it means that class is the one most everyone uses. With speed being the same across the board, you need to rely on your own skill more as well as teamwork. You're going to use your teammates more when you're not able to outskate everyone. In the case of one build having a speed advantage and being chosen by the majority of people, then you get everyone being the same speed which is what we have now, in a sense.

    I also understand wanting more agility and there's no doubt professional hockey players are agile, but we also don't want to push it far beyond realism. What would you do to make them more agile than they are now? People loved the skating of the previous generation, but it was also quite unrealistic. It seems odd the hardcore crowd would want that kind of skating.

    As always, I'm not saying there's no room for improvement or that the game wouldn't benefit from what you're suggesting. I'm just giving another point of view on it. The grass isn't always greener, as they say.

    The way people play is a product of the game's design. This is in no way a game for patient people. Patience and team play, in my humble opinion, are the niche ways to play NHL. In order to get people to change the way they play, the gameplay needs to be tailored in that direction. You forced us D-men to stop poking at pucks by making the poke check a penalty magnet. You forced this even more by making penalties for people that play 3's a penalty shot instead of putting an extra man on the ice like in previous versions. Perhaps you guys should take the time to create two modes of play for 6's play in NHL. One like this where it is possible for one guy to deke through a team. More of an arcade style of play. Then another mode suited more for methodical team play, where passing, positioning, and decisions mean more.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited January 2020
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Hmm, saying the game is harder is very subjective without clear examples of what you are talking about. Also, to be fair, yes there is a certain skill required for poke checks. Buuuut, before 19, poke check could easily be machine gunned with little consequence. Next thing you know people are losing their minds in 19. It was an extreme change with basically very little explanation to it, how to use it, and even more importantly, there was no talk about it prior to release. It basically came out of nowhere and was not in the least expected.

    I do not want necessarily a more "sim" game. I want the game to push people to play in a realistic manner, like having to cycle the puck around, implicating the 2 losers also called D men at the blue line, not being able to be a one-man show or at least, not consistently, and I want garbage or low-percentage shots to be saved by the goalie. If on a 2-1 and I am covering the pass as a D man, then I full well expect my AI goalie to read this and focus on the shooter. In all honesty, the first day of the 19 beta felt very cloese to what I would want as a complete 1 year cycle product. It was very very close and required very moderate tweaking. Poke checks and trips were not really an issue because we had other tools on D that were reliable.

    I want a bit more control over my skater and I also want a bit more separation between classes. Also, I would not mind if player classes had different speeds as long as they all have a bit more agility than currently. Playing as an Enforcer is pretty clunky and annoying and in real life bigger players are not that clunky. Heck, Max Pacioretty is by no means a great skater, nor is he an Enforcer so I don't think classes should be that pigeon-holed in EASHL.

    I want ALOT less shot rebounds going straight to the opposing team so consistently and I would like to see goalies control rebounds alot better than now.

    As for human goalies, I would like to see a complete revamp because it is insane how unbelievably slow, clunky, messy and terribly inconsistent. It is 100x worse when compared to its real-life counterpart. 13 year old goalies are incredibly more agile than in this game.

    As for the hardcore mode, I would much rather play "hockey" against the same 8 or 10 people all the time than defend the same garbage goals against almost anyone I play. It is practically always the same 3 plays or areas that people go for. So if I am playing real hockey against 8 people it still has a good chance of being different than defending the same 3 plays from 400 people.

    The game can already play like real hockey. People choose not to though. I have seen many 6s teams play this way. They include their D, they cycle the puck, they try to pull defenders out of position to generate better scoring chances. However, there is a very big lack of patience with people playing this game. Especially when you have AI goalies. Soon as the goalie gets it, you have 3 guys tapping their sticks, calling for the puck and racing for the neutral zone to try and get an odd-man rush. This often results in a goal against when you play a team that waits for easy tap ins from the goalie passing it out.

    That's just one example. My point is, there's a huge amount of people that choose to play a very aggressive, run and gun style of play. That's by choice. Not by necessity. Watch a full team of AI players. They move the puck and try to open up lanes. They use the open ice to their advantage. Something human-controlled teams don't do very often. This game can be played more like a sim, but very often, people choose not to.

    If you know 8 - 10 people that play the same as you, play against them. You have that option.

    Yes. Poke checking is one of the ways the game became harder. There was also a time the "Spider-Man" goalies were introduced and people kinda freaked out then too. Back to the poke check change though, it was drastic. Would you rather a slow process where each tuner keeps upping the possibility of a penalty until it got to where it is today? That doesn't sound very hardcore either. That would be more of a handholding process. I get the change was shocking, but it also had to happen. The poke spam was one of the biggest complaints we had.

    As we discussed before, goalies were reverted back to the beta with the rollback in 19. You have to keep in mind that people get used to the new mechanics and are getting better at the game. They're going to find easier ways to score. By the time the rollback happened, they had a few months to do so.

    I definitely like the idea of more separation between classes. However, when one class is faster than others, it means that class is the one most everyone uses. With speed being the same across the board, you need to rely on your own skill more as well as teamwork. You're going to use your teammates more when you're not able to outskate everyone. In the case of one build having a speed advantage and being chosen by the majority of people, then you get everyone being the same speed which is what we have now, in a sense.

    I also understand wanting more agility and there's no doubt professional hockey players are agile, but we also don't want to push it far beyond realism. What would you do to make them more agile than they are now? People loved the skating of the previous generation, but it was also quite unrealistic. It seems odd the hardcore crowd would want that kind of skating.

    As always, I'm not saying there's no room for improvement or that the game wouldn't benefit from what you're suggesting. I'm just giving another point of view on it. The grass isn't always greener, as they say.

    The way people play is a product of the game's design. This is in no way a game for patient people. Patience and team play, in my humble opinion, are the niche ways to play NHL. In order to get people to change the way they play, the gameplay needs to be tailored in that direction. You forced us D-men to stop poking at pucks by making the poke check a penalty magnet. You forced this even more by making penalties for people that play 3's a penalty shot instead of putting an extra man on the ice like in previous versions. Perhaps you guys should take the time to create two modes of play for 6's play in NHL. One like this where it is possible for one guy to deke through a team. More of an arcade style of play. Then another mode suited more for methodical team play, where passing, positioning, and decisions mean more.

    @EA_Aljo

    This.

    People play this game the way they do, because the game allows it. There is nothing to teach the player what is the right way to play. Sure you CAN play a semblance of real hockey, cycle the puck around, look for open players and score goals that are rewarding. But why should any casual or beginner players want to do that if they can just as easily score goals by skating over the blue line or winning a face-off and flicking up? Whether you move the puck to get the defense and the goalie out of position or you just straight up shoot on the goalie without a screen, you can be rewarded.

    Making a game more challenging doesn't mean making it harder or more frustrating. Teaching your player how to play your game by PLAYING IT and overcoming its CHALLENGES is a staple of any Good game.

    If you think that by making a hockey game play like hockey will result in you losing your customers, then maybe you don't really know your customers. People play sports games, because they love the Sports they are trying to represent. They want to play like the athletes play in real life or they want to feel what it's like to be at that level. Whether it's Formula One, or NBA Basketball or Baseball. And just like the casuals may not be interested in playing something more "realistic", the hard-core audience is not interested in playing a dumbed down version either.

    The problem with EA's NHL series is that you shield the casuals from the hardcore experience, but you force the hard-core players into playing the casual experience. Seems fair... :/

    @TheMajjam

    To be fair, this game still doesn't punish people for using the poke check stupidly. I've seen players literally mashing RB while skating away or hitting A to stick lift the minute they lose the puck or going down to block passes when you're on a rush. But if you have position and try to initiate a good poke, you can get punished. If you try to use DSS to contain the player and force him keep the puck to the outside, he can just skate into your stick and cause a tripping penalty against you.

    Literally, the game punishes you for good defensive plays and rewards you for dumb decisions.
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