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This game is a joke

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  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    If this were true, it would mean 85% of the rebounds against you would be ending up on your stick. Are you saying that never happens?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    If this were true, it would mean 85% of the rebounds against you would be ending up on your stick. Are you saying that never happens?

    No, happens equally on both sides. Yes I know there are some people who are good enough and know where some rebounds will go and so position themselves accordingly. But honestly it happens just way, way too often. I am not in favor of it at all, even if it meant that most times I would get those rebounds. It just feels predetermined and inorganic. The puck needs to be loose and physics need to make sense all the time as much as possible, even if it breaks up game flow a bit. Would feel more natural in any case.

    But even if there is chaos in front of the net, it's as if the game puts a priority on the attackers when it comes to picking up rebounds for the sake of action and scoring.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    You mean where the puck magically stops on the line?


    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Pucks stopping on the line like that is intended to minimize own goals. It's one thing when a puck deflects off a defender and goes in, but if they have control of it, even for a moment like that, the puck will stop on the line. That was done after a lot of negative feedback about own goals.

    Hasn't really helped own goals imo. Most common scenerio for own goals, in my experience, is when your goalie makes a save, and then decides they don't feel like covering the puck literally right in front of them, and your ai dman skates full speed into your own goalie pushing the puck into the net.

    Instead of having a stupid mechanic that's obviously a Band-Aid fix, why not program better spacial awareness for the ai? It's like they have zero clue that they're by their own net. Even clueless around the opponent net because they'll often skate right into the goalie, even if they have time and space to avoid it.

    Same when they're off side, and "trying" to get back on side, only to skate into the opposing ai and just basically skate on the spot without trying to go around the other player. It feels like none of the ai are aware of other objects on the ice outside of the puck.

    And why are goalies incapable of handling passes that get deflected, or passes in general that go towards them?
  • EA_Blueberry
    3056 posts EA Community Manager

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    You have a great point and have to agree with you on that one.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    If this were true, it would mean 85% of the rebounds against you would be ending up on your stick. Are you saying that never happens?

    No, happens equally on both sides. Yes I know there are some people who are good enough and know where some rebounds will go and so position themselves accordingly. But honestly it happens just way, way too often. I am not in favor of it at all, even if it meant that most times I would get those rebounds. It just feels predetermined and inorganic. The puck needs to be loose and physics need to make sense all the time as much as possible, even if it breaks up game flow a bit. Would feel more natural in any case.

    But even if there is chaos in front of the net, it's as if the game puts a priority on the attackers when it comes to picking up rebounds for the sake of action and scoring.

    Rebounds aren't forced to go to a player. Physics dictate where pucks go. Keep in mind, you have multiple players in front of the net with a long reach to pick up pucks. Ratings and positioning will come in to play, but the game doesn't have anything built into it that unfairly forces pucks to go to a player it shouldn't.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    It does take a bit to recover from laying a big hit on someone. I'm not terribly bothered by that. Yes, there are times it's unfortunate and means you can't pick up the puck, but you're putting all your energy into the hit. There's going to be some recovery time from that. If there weren't much, we'd probably see people start saying hitting is OP. Also, you can always switch to another player and try to pick it up. Regardless, it's good feedback and one we've seen mentioned many times so I know the dev team is aware of this.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    You mean where the puck magically stops on the line?


    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Pucks stopping on the line like that is intended to minimize own goals. It's one thing when a puck deflects off a defender and goes in, but if they have control of it, even for a moment like that, the puck will stop on the line. That was done after a lot of negative feedback about own goals.

    Hasn't really helped own goals imo. Most common scenerio for own goals, in my experience, is when your goalie makes a save, and then decides they don't feel like covering the puck literally right in front of them, and your ai dman skates full speed into your own goalie pushing the puck into the net.

    Instead of having a stupid mechanic that's obviously a Band-Aid fix, why not program better spacial awareness for the ai? It's like they have zero clue that they're by their own net. Even clueless around the opponent net because they'll often skate right into the goalie, even if they have time and space to avoid it.

    Same when they're off side, and "trying" to get back on side, only to skate into the opposing ai and just basically skate on the spot without trying to go around the other player. It feels like none of the ai are aware of other objects on the ice outside of the puck.

    And why are goalies incapable of handling passes that get deflected, or passes in general that go towards them?

    Goalies not covering the puck is a different issue. What I'm talking about has reduced the amount of times defenders skate with the puck into their own net. Which was a pretty big issue prior to 18 or 19. I forget which year that change went in. Anyway, goalies not covering the puck is one we know about so I really hope to see that addressed in the future. It's pretty frustrating to have the puck loose in the crease just waiting to be poked or bumped in. When a D man does it, it's because it technically was deflected and not one he had control of. Either way, it's not something we want to see happening.

    If there is a better way to address own goals from defenders, I'm sure it would be implemented. You're talking about an animation that needs to play to move pucks out of the net. This would take more control out of your hands as well. I know people get a bit bothered by the number of animations. As far as I know, the dev team tries to put as much control in the player's hands as possible. So, having your player go into an animation that sweeps the puck out of the crease might have pros and cons associated with it. Regardless, it's something that isn't a simple resolution, but hopefully, this will perform better in the future.

    I agree it's really frustrating when they get caught offside and then skate into opposing players. Which just forces you to keep possession in the NZ until they go onside or dump it. Either way, it breaks up what could be a good play. That's also one we're aware of, but I don't have any updates on what's happening with it.

    What do you mean about goalies being unable to handle passes or deflections to them? I see those get stopped regularly. Yeah, the occasional pass squeaks through and of course, deflections are nothing new, but can you give me some more details?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    It does take a bit to recover from laying a big hit on someone. I'm not terribly bothered by that. Yes, there are times it's unfortunate and means you can't pick up the puck, but you're putting all your energy into the hit. There's going to be some recovery time from that. If there weren't much, we'd probably see people start saying hitting is OP. Also, you can always switch to another player and try to pick it up. Regardless, it's good feedback and one we've seen mentioned many times so I know the dev team is aware of this.

    You can't always switch to another player because you have several player position locked game modes.

    I'm fine with a recovery time after laying a big hit but the victim of said hit should never recover quicker and then also end up in a better position to make the play as a result of getting laid out, this happens too often.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 14
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    It does take a bit to recover from laying a big hit on someone. I'm not terribly bothered by that. Yes, there are times it's unfortunate and means you can't pick up the puck, but you're putting all your energy into the hit. There's going to be some recovery time from that. If there weren't much, we'd probably see people start saying hitting is OP. Also, you can always switch to another player and try to pick it up. Regardless, it's good feedback and one we've seen mentioned many times so I know the dev team is aware of this.

    I see your point, and maybe from a gameplay perspective it has a certain validity to it. But I also feel that if you were in a position to get laid out, you should pay for it. I feel it should be rewarding because if you laid him out, then most times it is the logical play because your ultimate goal is to separate player from puck or disrupt the play. Even if he manages to get his pass or shot off just before you lay him out, he is still effectively out of the play for a few seconds, but then again, so are you.

    So I am not saying you are punished for a long recovery, but it certainly isn't as rewarding as it should be. You say it takes alot of energy to lay a hit, which is true, but it takes even more energy for the one getting laid out, so again, he should take longer to recover on open ice. Boardplay is another issue entirely as it is basically the player blocking your skating path to the puck.
    I see Shea Weber consistently laying players out and he very rarely seems to need to recover. At least, not nearly as much as the person he lays out.

    Strangely enough if you get a hitting animation from your player, but the contact doesn't happen, it takes even longer to recover control of your player than it takes to recover from a good hit. I am on the fence with that one. Not sure if I agree with it or not. Some instances I agree as that hit was maybe not the right play at that time. But there are instances where it seems contact should have happened, but for some reason you kind of glide by or bounce off that "invisible bubble" we have heard so much about over the years. I have seen many times where my player can glide a good 20 feet while the missed hit animation plays out which is worse because now I have major ground to make up to get back into the play. One would think a player would brake hard if his wizzes by on a hit rather than glide away for the entire duration of his motion. We should at least be able to stop or slow down instead of having no controller input during this time.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    You mean where the puck magically stops on the line?


    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Pucks stopping on the line like that is intended to minimize own goals. It's one thing when a puck deflects off a defender and goes in, but if they have control of it, even for a moment like that, the puck will stop on the line. That was done after a lot of negative feedback about own goals.

    Hasn't really helped own goals imo. Most common scenerio for own goals, in my experience, is when your goalie makes a save, and then decides they don't feel like covering the puck literally right in front of them, and your ai dman skates full speed into your own goalie pushing the puck into the net.

    Instead of having a stupid mechanic that's obviously a Band-Aid fix, why not program better spacial awareness for the ai? It's like they have zero clue that they're by their own net. Even clueless around the opponent net because they'll often skate right into the goalie, even if they have time and space to avoid it.

    Same when they're off side, and "trying" to get back on side, only to skate into the opposing ai and just basically skate on the spot without trying to go around the other player. It feels like none of the ai are aware of other objects on the ice outside of the puck.

    And why are goalies incapable of handling passes that get deflected, or passes in general that go towards them?

    Goalies not covering the puck is a different issue. What I'm talking about has reduced the amount of times defenders skate with the puck into their own net. Which was a pretty big issue prior to 18 or 19. I forget which year that change went in. Anyway, goalies not covering the puck is one we know about so I really hope to see that addressed in the future. It's pretty frustrating to have the puck loose in the crease just waiting to be poked or bumped in. When a D man does it, it's because it technically was deflected and not one he had control of. Either way, it's not something we want to see happening.

    If there is a better way to address own goals from defenders, I'm sure it would be implemented. You're talking about an animation that needs to play to move pucks out of the net. This would take more control out of your hands as well. I know people get a bit bothered by the number of animations. As far as I know, the dev team tries to put as much control in the player's hands as possible. So, having your player go into an animation that sweeps the puck out of the crease might have pros and cons associated with it. Regardless, it's something that isn't a simple resolution, but hopefully, this will perform better in the future.

    I agree it's really frustrating when they get caught offside and then skate into opposing players. Which just forces you to keep possession in the NZ until they go onside or dump it. Either way, it breaks up what could be a good play. That's also one we're aware of, but I don't have any updates on what's happening with it.

    What do you mean about goalies being unable to handle passes or deflections to them? I see those get stopped regularly. Yeah, the occasional pass squeaks through and of course, deflections are nothing new, but can you give me some more details?

    Often, a weakly deflected shot, or an errant pass or just a pass in general, appear invisible to the goalie, like they don't even react to it. I wouldn't call it occasional, more than I would "the norm". If I can remember to take a video clip I'll see if I can get you an example.

    As for dmen putting the goal into their own net, usually it's happening when the puck is loose in front of the goalie, and your own dman is just flying full tilt right into the goalie, pushing the puck through the goalie and into the net for an own goalie. If I remember correctly, it used to be the dman could basically retain control of the puck and bring it back out. Even if it crossed the line (while in possession of the puck), it wouldn't be a goal as long as you maintained possession. Sure it was unrealistic, but it was a fair sacrifice to avoid an own goal where we don't have the proper fidelity to control our stick that close.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited January 14
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Yup. Like this:



    This must be how Grey Fox as the Cyber Ninja felt when he fought against Snake for the first time in MGS. We must all be gluttons for punishment as we keep coming back to this fushluggenah game thinking it's somehow gonna change. LOL!

    I mean it's kinda laughable that the puck takes a direct line to the opponent's stick every time. Not in front. Not behind. Doesn't bounce. Doesn't roll. Just flat on the ice, perfect reception and instant shot for a goal. Also love how my stick comes towards me, but the puck gets pushed sideways. The hitboxes in this game are phenomenal!!!

    This game makes Shaq Fu look like a gaming masterpiece by comparison.
  • That's exactly what happened and continues to happen when I play and the goalie stick doesn't move or move enough to justify it. Especially since the puck seems to stay floating there for a bit before it moves.
  • to me the problem with goalies started when they started trying to make the physics and such too realistic.

    90% of loose pucks bouncing around the goalie and such in this game would normally just be grabbed, covered, smothered, whatever by a real life goalie. In this game its like a ping pong ball/hot potato that just bounces around all over the place and the kind of granular microcontrol you would need to deal with it, as a goalie, is just not available or even practical.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Yup. Like this:



    This must be how Grey Fox as the Cyber Ninja felt when he fought against Snake for the first time in MGS. We must all be gluttons for punishment as we keep coming back to this fushluggenah game thinking it's somehow gonna change. LOL!

    I mean it's kinda laughable that the puck takes a direct line to the opponent's stick every time. Not in front. Not behind. Doesn't bounce. Doesn't roll. Just flat on the ice, perfect reception and instant shot for a goal. Also love how my stick comes towards me, but the puck gets pushed sideways. The hitboxes in this game are phenomenal!!!

    This game makes Shaq Fu look like a gaming masterpiece by comparison.

    And that's a good example of when I say it doesn't feel organic, or natural, or feels forced and cheapens the experience.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Yup. Like this:



    This must be how Grey Fox as the Cyber Ninja felt when he fought against Snake for the first time in MGS. We must all be gluttons for punishment as we keep coming back to this fushluggenah game thinking it's somehow gonna change. LOL!

    I mean it's kinda laughable that the puck takes a direct line to the opponent's stick every time. Not in front. Not behind. Doesn't bounce. Doesn't roll. Just flat on the ice, perfect reception and instant shot for a goal. Also love how my stick comes towards me, but the puck gets pushed sideways. The hitboxes in this game are phenomenal!!!

    This game makes Shaq Fu look like a gaming masterpiece by comparison.

    And that's a good example of when I say it doesn't feel organic, or natural, or feels forced and cheapens the experience.

    "Contrived" even? ;)
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Or the puck being soft lobbed to the goalie and suddenly ricochet quickly to the opposing team player for an open net?



    After a game I had tonight, I'm about done with this series. They've just about pushed me back into the text hockey sim games again.

    Yup. Like this:



    This must be how Grey Fox as the Cyber Ninja felt when he fought against Snake for the first time in MGS. We must all be gluttons for punishment as we keep coming back to this fushluggenah game thinking it's somehow gonna change. LOL!

    I mean it's kinda laughable that the puck takes a direct line to the opponent's stick every time. Not in front. Not behind. Doesn't bounce. Doesn't roll. Just flat on the ice, perfect reception and instant shot for a goal. Also love how my stick comes towards me, but the puck gets pushed sideways. The hitboxes in this game are phenomenal!!!

    This game makes Shaq Fu look like a gaming masterpiece by comparison.

    And that's a good example of when I say it doesn't feel organic, or natural, or feels forced and cheapens the experience.

    this is perfect video of why people believe tilt exists etc. Some might think the game DECIDED to do this to screw them when in reality its the terrible physics programming. If they cant get something like this fixed for years, i have a hard time believing they could implement something as intricate as dda or ice tilt.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    jrago73 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    It does take a bit to recover from laying a big hit on someone. I'm not terribly bothered by that. Yes, there are times it's unfortunate and means you can't pick up the puck, but you're putting all your energy into the hit. There's going to be some recovery time from that. If there weren't much, we'd probably see people start saying hitting is OP. Also, you can always switch to another player and try to pick it up. Regardless, it's good feedback and one we've seen mentioned many times so I know the dev team is aware of this.

    You can't always switch to another player because you have several player position locked game modes.

    I'm fine with a recovery time after laying a big hit but the victim of said hit should never recover quicker and then also end up in a better position to make the play as a result of getting laid out, this happens too often.

    I'll pay closer attention to recovering from a hit. From my experience, it has always seemed the problem was not that you didn't recover in time, but that there wasn't easy access to picking up the puck.

    Thanks for the input.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    edited January 14
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    If you want to take physics on, watch players looking for rebounds in front of the net. Players that are overly open almost always get the rebound come straight to them. Just observe when you peeps get the chance.

    I know. Pucks magically find their way to their sticks every time. It's like what @WainGretSki said, it's like it's part of their game design to keep the puck from going astray to keep the game "flowing".

    If that's what's causing all this, it's such a STUPID design mechanic.

    Yup. The game doesn't flow. Most things feel forced and it cheapens the experience. Any single realism this game is trying to go for, it all goes out the window with this kind of stuff. Like explain to me how roughly 85% of rebounds go straight to an opponent's stick, and the percentage is also very high of this happening on successful poke checks.... Randomness can only account for so much.

    Also why when i finally do get a sucessfull poke does the puck always go right back to him or one of his players? If i lay a big hit on someone its like im stuck in animation while he lays there and i cant retrieve the puck, so 9 outta 10 times hell just get up after being leveled and get the puck right back....or hell get uo faster than you can get to the puck.

    I just can't agree with this. I use the poke check a lot and the majority of the time, it's a turnover. Yes, there are times they will get it back, but to say every time just isn't accurate. In my experience at least. However, I probably poke more than most people since it seems there's a big general consensus of not to use it.

    As far as laying guys out and they get the puck back, that seems to happen most often along the boards. You can't skate around them as easy to pick it back up. Most people just try to skate through them and hope for the best. You can try skating around them to get it. That works more often than continually trying to skate through their body. I get that it's frustrating, but if we made it so that players stayed down longer, we'd probably get a lot of people upset that players take to long to get back up. Forcing the puck to move away from them when physics don't dictate it would also be odd. This has been a complaint for a few years now though so I surely understand the concern. It's pretty a pretty common occurrence, but you can raise your chances of picking it up again by moving around the downed player.

    Yea, agreed that the boards play a big role in this problem, but in all honesty, even on open ice, seems like the "recovery" time from throwing a good hit is too long. It should not take more than a second to regain full control of your player after you lay someone out. I don't know if it's possible to accelerate the animation or if code needs to change, but honestly laying someone out takes almost as long to recover than the person getting laid out.

    It does take a bit to recover from laying a big hit on someone. I'm not terribly bothered by that. Yes, there are times it's unfortunate and means you can't pick up the puck, but you're putting all your energy into the hit. There's going to be some recovery time from that. If there weren't much, we'd probably see people start saying hitting is OP. Also, you can always switch to another player and try to pick it up. Regardless, it's good feedback and one we've seen mentioned many times so I know the dev team is aware of this.

    I see your point, and maybe from a gameplay perspective it has a certain validity to it. But I also feel that if you were in a position to get laid out, you should pay for it. I feel it should be rewarding because if you laid him out, then most times it is the logical play because your ultimate goal is to separate player from puck or disrupt the play. Even if he manages to get his pass or shot off just before you lay him out, he is still effectively out of the play for a few seconds, but then again, so are you.

    So I am not saying you are punished for a long recovery, but it certainly isn't as rewarding as it should be. You say it takes alot of energy to lay a hit, which is true, but it takes even more energy for the one getting laid out, so again, he should take longer to recover on open ice. Boardplay is another issue entirely as it is basically the player blocking your skating path to the puck.
    I see Shea Weber consistently laying players out and he very rarely seems to need to recover. At least, not nearly as much as the person he lays out.

    Strangely enough if you get a hitting animation from your player, but the contact doesn't happen, it takes even longer to recover control of your player than it takes to recover from a good hit. I am on the fence with that one. Not sure if I agree with it or not. Some instances I agree as that hit was maybe not the right play at that time. But there are instances where it seems contact should have happened, but for some reason you kind of glide by or bounce off that "invisible bubble" we have heard so much about over the years. I have seen many times where my player can glide a good 20 feet while the missed hit animation plays out which is worse because now I have major ground to make up to get back into the play. One would think a player would brake hard if his wizzes by on a hit rather than glide away for the entire duration of his motion. We should at least be able to stop or slow down instead of having no controller input during this time.

    We've all been burned by a missed hit. That's kind of part of the risk vs reward for going for hits when you need to take a couple strides to connect. You're essentially taking yourself out of the play. I do agree that you should at least be able to brake, but I think the end result would be the same as it's going to take time to stop, reverse direction and get up to speed. When to hit and then executing it takes skill. I think you're pretty well rewarded for that, but of course, there's always room for improvement.

    As far as the "bubble" goes, that seems to be more with low speeds or just getting a piece of them. It's something I don't have the finer details on like NHLDev would. When you connect pretty solidly with someone, there's obviously a reaction. They may just stumble from not making as much contact as a full, direct hit, but if there's enough opposing force, you're going to see a reaction.
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