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This game is a joke

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  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager

    It's nearly impossible to go from inside to outside without first going from outside to inside. You would have to start between there legs lol.

    Here it is in plain English. When a stick comes in contact with legs it should basically disappear. It can't trip it can't dislodge pucks, it can't pick up pucks, can't keep carrying the puck. This state should stay that way until the stick is returned to the outside body part it entered or if it exists another outside part of body then small timer like 1-3 secs.

    When the stick is on the outside of the leg, this is basically happening. Except the carrier retains control of the puck. A defender shouldn't really be able to sweep their stick between the carrier's legs with no risk. I get that it wouldn't be able to affect the puck in this state or after for a bit, but it still would take away from the skill needed to use DSS well. You could just keep holding that state and wait for the timer to expire while you sweep your stick and getting it in just the right position until the timer runs out and contact can be made.

    If you want the game to be more sim or hardcore, making a defender's stick have no effect when it's between the legs of the puck carrier, doesn't seem to line up with that.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited January 18
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    In real hockey unless you are ripping a big shot and hit them in bouncy areas of the pads its pretty much going to hit the goalie and drop down somewhere in front of him and die on the ice almost instantly.

    This was basically my experience playing real ice hockey as a goalie. And I played in 3 different eras that saw drastic changes in the way goalie equipment was made. Back when we used to wear those Brown Leather pads, they used to get really heavy and mushy when they got wet on the ice. Pucks wouldn't bounce away so much as just make a THUD and drop almost instantly to the ice. When equipment started to get better and companies started using Nylon and Plastic along with the leather, there was a little more bounce when they hit you, but goalies would learn how to properly redirect shots and the equipment was made so as to better control them. Pads weren't just flat "pillows" you strapped to your shins anymore. They had a form to them and each part served a purpose in how you wanted to control the puck when it hit you. They were more rigid than just leather, but it still had some give. Now a days, pads are mostly Mesh and Plastic. They use hollow foaming inside so that when the puck hits it doesn't bounce away, the impact gets absorbed by the material and the puck just dies there.

    In this game it's like goalie are wearing wooden boards. Everything is an uncontrollable rebound that leaps a mile in the air or to the side... When it actually HITs them. Usually it just goes into the net. :/

    Yea a few years back, maybe 5 or 6, goalies actually wanted pads that gave big rebounds. The difference is, the goalies would direct those big rebounds and obviously would direct them into safe areas whenever possible. The reason behind that was the further the rebound, the further from the net the puck would be (duh) thus giving the goalie more time to recover and re position. Ideally, no one wants the puck to fall flat to the ice and try to have control in the chaos of everyone hacking away at the puck near the crease.

    The "big rebound" era was a time when, as a goalie, you couldn't just let the puck hit you, you had to know how to move to redirect a puck correctly. Equipment had more rigidness with denser material underneath then the old "straw" materials which they used to stuff pads with, which tended to make pucks bounce off pads more. Blockers were now slightly curved instead of being completely flat to help pucks deflect away much easier. Trappers began having bigger baskets and shaped so that pucks that hit you in the hand would always deflect into the basket instead of out. As a goalie, you also had to use your stick more to redirect any pucks you could into the corner. You also had to position yourself so that pucks from the outside boards would be deflected into the short side corner and NOT far side or the middle like in EA's NHL. If you couldn't redirect it properly, you tried your best to deflect the puck hard to the far side boards by kicking it with your pads, or high up in the air with your stick.

    Butterfly goalies did want the puck to die in front of them, but then they learned a technique where they used their sticks to deflect pucks into their chest. If it hit them in the pads, they position them so that pucks would deflect away and behind into the corners. You wouldn't see them kicking the puck straight back up into the slot. Ever...

    During the time I was playing in a Competitive league, I was more of a Hybrid Athletic goalie in the Style of Ron Tugnutt, though I started off as more of a Standup Reflex goalie like Grant Fuhr. I loved making flashy saves! Sometimes 2 or 3 saves in a row. But after training with a pure Butterfly goalie coach, I learned to be in better position and know how to properly play the puck which helped me keep my stamina higher towards the end of the match. I still made big saves, but now I made them when I really needed to. And that's what I taught my goalies when I became an assistant coach. I took a Goalie from the Bantam C tier who let in a goal from the Red Line and I worked with him into being one of the BEST goalies in M*dget A.

    Being a goalie is difficult. Being a GREAT goalie, even more so. And you will let in a fair amount of pucks into the net. There's no avoiding that. But you will never, and I mean NEVER... EEEEEVER... Let in pucks just "because you gotta get sniped sometimes"...
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    If you want the game to be more sim or hardcore, making a defender's stick have no effect when it's between the legs of the puck carrier, doesn't seem to line up with that.

    But because this is a video game and we ARE limited by what we can do with our inputs, you have to allow for a little leeway.

    Again, in real life, a hockey stick would come to a dead stop if you tried to swing it towards a players legs with one hand. Try to rake your stick through his legs and it would meet with resistance and... Nothing would happen. It wouldn't trip the player.

    In the game you can freely swipe your stick through limbs without any resistance, so there's no way to know exactly when/if you hit a player's limb. So making the player get tripped because you "went from the inside to the outside" after going from the outside to the inside is a terrible idea. We also can't adjust the depth of our stick checks like in real life, so that makes the whole endeavor of using DSS properly as a defensive tool even more difficult without being punished for accidentally going through the puck carrier's "geo".

    If it were me, I would've slowed down the lateral acceleration of the sweeping in DSS (no wiggle sticks possible) and I'd increase the hit box to help in dislodging pucks easier if it registers a clean hit on the opponent's stick blade or the puck directly. If it passes through the player's limb, then the hitbox is dissabled completely so that it can't make contact with the puck until you remove your stick from the player's hurtbox for a second.

    Example 1; I sweep my stick and it hits the puck or stick blade cleanly, puck becomes dislodge and enters into a "tumble" state. The cleaner and forceful the hit, the better direction you can give the puck when it becomes dislodged.

    Exmple 2; I sweep my stick into the players leg while also contacting the puck. Nothing happens. My stick becomes "intangible". If I rake it back and forth through the limbs, it remains intangible until I move my stick away and keep it there for a second.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »

    It's nearly impossible to go from inside to outside without first going from outside to inside. You would have to start between there legs lol.

    Here it is in plain English. When a stick comes in contact with legs it should basically disappear. It can't trip it can't dislodge pucks, it can't pick up pucks, can't keep carrying the puck. This state should stay that way until the stick is returned to the outside body part it entered or if it exists another outside part of body then small timer like 1-3 secs.

    When the stick is on the outside of the leg, this is basically happening. Except the carrier retains control of the puck. A defender shouldn't really be able to sweep their stick between the carrier's legs with no risk. I get that it wouldn't be able to affect the puck in this state or after for a bit, but it still would take away from the skill needed to use DSS well. You could just keep holding that state and wait for the timer to expire while you sweep your stick and getting it in just the right position until the timer runs out and contact can be made.

    If you want the game to be more sim or hardcore, making a defender's stick have no effect when it's between the legs of the puck carrier, doesn't seem to line up with that.

    Either that or stop letting the stick go through objects.

    I don't think you understand, in real hockey this happens all the time. The difference is the stick his the legs and bounces off. No trips EVER. In this game you try to swing your stick it goes through the legs and eventually registers as a stick between the legs and causes a trip.

    It may be way too hard to create the physics, the animations the movement, controls, etc to make realistic stick play on defense. That's fine but then you have to be forgiving on the stick play you do have.

    I don't want more sim or hardcore. I want realism. I want balance. When someone LT backs right into me I want balance realistic stick defense. No hockey player in history has ever tripped anyone in that situation but in this game it's basically a sure thing.

    I'll put it even simpler, you should not be coding this games physics to even allow the stick to be between someone's legs unless the poke it straight in there. If that's not possible then figure out how to make it forgiving.
  • I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.
  • Laughlin88 wrote: »
    I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.

    Weve been complaining about the griefing and trolls forever. Either they dont know how to address it or dont want to because they dont wanna lose sales. Theyve already made it clear they dont care about glitches etc because they continue to do nothing about them, they dont ban people who are reported with AMPLE video evidence as well as videos posted on youtube by the perpitrator.

    Its disgusting to me that this continues to happen. Their comeback is always that there will always be bugs in every game but guesd what? When people figure out how to ruin other peoples games by getting out of the map in call of duty, it gets fixed.

    When people in this game learn ways to ruin otger players experience, ea wont let us shame them, says they take action but DON'T(hell even a gamechanger at one point was streaming exploits and nothing was done), and asks us how they should tackle the problem. For at least 6 years theres been idea after idea given and almost nothing done to remedy the issue.

    Bet if people could get free packs EA would stop selling packs and have a fix within a day.
  • EA_Blueberry
    3211 posts EA Community Manager
    Laughlin88 wrote: »
    I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.

    I can completely understand how frustrating of an experience that is and want to let you know the team is fully aware of behavior like that and it's under discussion. While I don't have any news to share right now, EA is taking charge on making gaming environments more friendly by improving ways to report abusive behavior in games. The public reporting tool is mentioned in that article too.
  • Laughlin88 wrote: »
    I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.

    I can completely understand how frustrating of an experience that is and want to let you know the team is fully aware of behavior like that and it's under discussion. While I don't have any news to share right now, EA is taking charge on making gaming environments more friendly by improving ways to report abusive behavior in games. The public reporting tool is mentioned in that article too.

    Thanks for letting us know. It is reassuring to say the least. See? I didn't get very detailed info, but at least you let me know that there is actually talks to formulate a plan. I think that this all most of us want to hear, that things are actually moving and something will be tried sometime down the road.
  • Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.
    Administrator at Xbox-Sports

  • Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if that player isn't an idiot, but rather, he just isn't that good? Or maybe he is having a rough connection for some reason and makes him play poorly? I am most certain he would be vote kicked.

    Maybe if it was combined with at least 1 or 2 players from the opposing team the game could consider it a "fair" vote kick.
  • Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if that player isn't an idiot, but rather, he just isn't that good? Or maybe he is having a rough connection for some reason and makes him play poorly? I am most certain he would be vote kicked.

    Maybe if it was combined with at least 1 or 2 players from the opposing team the game could consider it a "fair" vote kick.

    Goalies would be voted out of a game as soon as they allowed one goal... Never mind that they made 15 crazy saves before that goal. He allows 1 goal, he's a scrub and has to be kicked!

    :/

    More important than a kick feature, they need to make is so that if the other goalie leaves or if the other team is missing half their players, the game doesn't count. you can keep playing, but stats and results are null and void.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if that player isn't an idiot, but rather, he just isn't that good? Or maybe he is having a rough connection for some reason and makes him play poorly? I am most certain he would be vote kicked.

    Maybe if it was combined with at least 1 or 2 players from the opposing team the game could consider it a "fair" vote kick.

    Goalies would be voted out of a game as soon as they allowed one goal... Never mind that they made 15 crazy saves before that goal. He allows 1 goal, he's a scrub and has to be kicked!

    :/

    More important than a kick feature, they need to make is so that if the other goalie leaves or if the other team is missing half their players, the game doesn't count. you can keep playing, but stats and results are null and void.

    I consider myself a very decent D man. But in dropins there are games where my teammates are just all over the place and I don't even know where to turn my head, let alone play my game and position. In those games I am basically a horrible D man. More than half my job becomes guesswork and who can perform in that situation? Just horrible sometimes, but it would surely lead to a kick for me I would guess.
  • EA_Blueberry
    3211 posts EA Community Manager
    Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if some players decide to troll and kick you even though you weren't doing anything, or like what was mentioned earlier how a goalie could be kicked for giving up one goal. There are some pros and cons to to it. Maybe a vote kick would need the votes of the other team too? Would they want to vote kick the person on your team if that player was helping them win? Probably not.

    Would players try to vote kick people just for laughs? I've seen that in games where those notifications constantly came up and it broke some immersion from the game. Annoying at times too.
  • I know. Defense is my 2nd position, though I can play every one well enough. In order of "skill", it would go G, D, W, C.

    I usually know how to counter face-offs, but I'm not really good at it which is why Center is my weakest position. As a winger I usually play as a playmaker, trying to get assists more than trying to score. Defense isn't so bad in drop-ins, unless my partner is a complete disaster.

    Still I'd wager that any of those positions, it's usually hard to get kicked unless you are purposely trying to throw the game (and you make SURE everyone knows you're trying to do so).

    Goalie, you can do your job and still get singled out. I've been in games where my team is getting completely overwhelmed in every aspect and it's all I can do to keep them in. 20 saves. 30 saves. But let in 2-3 goals and you are basically scum.

    NHL 20 makes it even worse by making the Goalie position terrible by design. Not only is the position horrible to play, but every other position got faster and more agile while we are still the same as we were in NHL 17 (post patch). EA hates goalies. Always has. Always will. And the users know this.
  • We definitely need tools how to deal with game trolls! We need to stop them! Goalies that are skating through the red line and are permanently out of position, players that are constantly calling for pass, players that are staying off-side. We need to kick them all!
  • RSall14
    575 posts Member
    edited January 24
    Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if some players decide to troll and kick you even though you weren't doing anything, or like what was mentioned earlier how a goalie could be kicked for giving up one goal. There are some pros and cons to to it. Maybe a vote kick would need the votes of the other team too? Would they want to vote kick the person on your team if that player was helping them win? Probably not.

    Would players try to vote kick people just for laughs? I've seen that in games where those notifications constantly came up and it broke some immersion from the game. Annoying at times too.

    I don't touch drop ins anymore as it has just gotten worse since the move to current gen. I'd rather have a vote to kick even if it will be abused, there's no harm in trying when people just quit anyways. Make it so it requires 4 out of 6 votes to kick and scale it accordingly when there isn't a full team. As it is right now, one person can ruin the experience for everyone and they can't do anything but stick it out or leave. You guys need to make an effort to better the community.
  • jmwalsh8888
    1115 posts Member
    edited January 24
    Laughlin88 wrote: »
    I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.

    I can completely understand how frustrating of an experience that is and want to let you know the team is fully aware of behavior like that and it's under discussion. While I don't have any news to share right now, EA is taking charge on making gaming environments more friendly by improving ways to report abusive behavior in games. The public reporting tool is mentioned in that article too.

    sounds good but I can tell you the same person on ps4 has to have been reported like 10K times for the past 5+ years and has never missed a day. he's so dedicated to his craft he has two ps4's running so he can troll on 2 accounts simultaneously. And while he's the worst he's one of 100s of trolls that have played for years.

    so I would say reporting is a waste of time. not to mention (well I have mentioned it many times) if its not an easy to use system that is built into the game you wasted your time even setting it up. Maybe 1% of the player base ever leaves the game to do anything. The other 99%, they dont go on social media, on the forums or websites or anything in regards to video games. They just turn on the console, play and turn it off.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if that player isn't an idiot, but rather, he just isn't that good? Or maybe he is having a rough connection for some reason and makes him play poorly? I am most certain he would be vote kicked.

    Maybe if it was combined with at least 1 or 2 players from the opposing team the game could consider it a "fair" vote kick.

    Goalies would be voted out of a game as soon as they allowed one goal... Never mind that they made 15 crazy saves before that goal. He allows 1 goal, he's a scrub and has to be kicked!

    :/

    More important than a kick feature, they need to make is so that if the other goalie leaves or if the other team is missing half their players, the game doesn't count. you can keep playing, but stats and results are null and void.

    ... But in dropins EVERY GAME my teammates are just all over the place ....

    Fixed ;)
  • Why not allow players to "vote to kick" an idiot player within the game? If the said player receives 3 kick votes from his teammates, he's removed from the game.

    What if some players decide to troll and kick you even though you weren't doing anything, or like what was mentioned earlier how a goalie could be kicked for giving up one goal. There are some pros and cons to to it. Maybe a vote kick would need the votes of the other team too? Would they want to vote kick the person on your team if that player was helping them win? Probably not.

    Would players try to vote kick people just for laughs? I've seen that in games where those notifications constantly came up and it broke some immersion from the game. Annoying at times too.

    vote kick has never worked and never will. while it sucks to have someone troll you in a game there is nothing you can do about it in Public games. Period. You have to build a system that stops them from entering your game. A reputation system. It may not be easy to build but that would go a LONG way to fixing the problems.

    Ideally their would be an ingame system that allows you to blacklist and report a player and that would utilize the console's built in system to record lets say the last 5 mins of gameplay and upload that video for review. If a player gets tons of reports they could get blacklisted system wide. If they appeal, EA should have a whole database full of complaints with video evidence. I know pie in the sky but I'm just saying there are options. Its software, the possibilities are almost limitless.
  • Laughlin88 wrote: »
    I love NHL, and I hockey is my favourite sport, I love to play as my own single player. But let me give you EASHL drop in story, wasting 2 straight hours of my time until I just turned off the tv. I tried playing 10 games, the first 3 in a row.. players dropped out and the game cancelled 15 minutes wasted, I got into a game, and my goalie was skating to the blue line EVERY play and constantly gave us penalties... so I quit, and it then was a defenceman the was dancing and lying down after he crossed the blue line while being offside so i quit again, then I got a game where like 5 people were CONSTANTLY fighting and tripping, so I quit, then another couple failed ques because people quit before the game, and FINALLY the last game I found out I got the SAME DAMN GOALIE THAT KEPT SKATING PAST THE BLUELINE. So for 2 hours, i completely wasted my time, threw my controller and almost broke my tv. 10 games, 10 terrible experiences, not one functional game. Drop ins are broken, and something needs to be done about it. That’s the experience this game has given very often, every time i get the game I’m hopeful, but they let me down again and again.

    I can completely understand how frustrating of an experience that is and want to let you know the team is fully aware of behavior like that and it's under discussion. While I don't have any news to share right now, EA is taking charge on making gaming environments more friendly by improving ways to report abusive behavior in games. The public reporting tool is mentioned in that article too.

    Give the drop in crowd (and there's a lot of us) something more akin to Be A Pro Online, in which performance in drop in games reflects on your career. Untie CR to win/loss, and start grouping people in games by their CR as they advance. Those who can't play well plays down until they can, and those types of people won't be able to affect as many players as they can now.
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