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Just not good enough

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  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    What I love most that the @NHLDev team has done is.... drumroll please....
    After manhandling your opponent in every which way imaginable, one of them rage quits, right? No sweat, it’s a 4 goal game, easy W, right? Not if the AI has anything to do bout it! Which he does.

    You’ll see the AI sub in & play at an unworldly level which the usual AI in most instances does not. The stock AI skates aimlessly and plays cluelessly, skates full speed on a straight line directly into the goalie, tripping himself into the boards while never attempting the shot. The sub AI skates with some of the quirkiest, most seizure-like quick movements while pulling off all kinds of dekes or shots you’ll never see an AI do otherwise. He will do his damndest to win the game for his team that was at one point hopeless.


    You’d think the team with a quitter would be the one who is punished for it but instead they are rewarded while the better team is the one now having to answer.





    Pay attention to the AI after a human quits. The main deciding factor you will notice in every single instance, is the AI is just in position much more than the scrub human before him.

    Watch and pay attention to this and you will notice it.

    Now, I am not saying some AI players are not all star studs because some are. At times it seems like that human gets replaced by full-on aggressive AI for some reason. But this aside, do pay attention to the positioning and you will notice it.
  • 3s is not real hockey. if you play a lot of 3s against garbage players (most of 3s) you will easily rack up 1000+ cr and have no idea how to play against good players when you see them. Maybe CPU fits that category.

    AI is both good and bad. if you know how to exploit them they are easy, period. not up for debate. if you play against them the same exact way as normal players (who are more than likely not good) you may have struggles.

    Care to show some gameplay? I see people saying CPU's are not good but then I routinely beat those same people. The only people I see able to take out CPU are people who abuse the game in some form or another. Maybe you are THAT good but should a player who is well above average be consistently losing to the CPU when starting up 4 goals?? Is that fair or realistic?
  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    What I love most that the @NHLDev team has done is.... drumroll please....
    After manhandling your opponent in every which way imaginable, one of them rage quits, right? No sweat, it’s a 4 goal game, easy W, right? Not if the AI has anything to do bout it! Which he does.

    You’ll see the AI sub in & play at an unworldly level which the usual AI in most instances does not. The stock AI skates aimlessly and plays cluelessly, skates full speed on a straight line directly into the goalie, tripping himself into the boards while never attempting the shot. The sub AI skates with some of the quirkiest, most seizure-like quick movements while pulling off all kinds of dekes or shots you’ll never see an AI do otherwise. He will do his damndest to win the game for his team that was at one point hopeless.


    You’d think the team with a quitter would be the one who is punished for it but instead they are rewarded while the better team is the one now having to answer.


    actually the "replacement" AI is a lower level than the stock AI you start a game with. Unless they recently changed that.
  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    What I love most that the @NHLDev team has done is.... drumroll please....
    After manhandling your opponent in every which way imaginable, one of them rage quits, right? No sweat, it’s a 4 goal game, easy W, right? Not if the AI has anything to do bout it! Which he does.

    You’ll see the AI sub in & play at an unworldly level which the usual AI in most instances does not. The stock AI skates aimlessly and plays cluelessly, skates full speed on a straight line directly into the goalie, tripping himself into the boards while never attempting the shot. The sub AI skates with some of the quirkiest, most seizure-like quick movements while pulling off all kinds of dekes or shots you’ll never see an AI do otherwise. He will do his damndest to win the game for his team that was at one point hopeless.


    You’d think the team with a quitter would be the one who is punished for it but instead they are rewarded while the better team is the one now having to answer.


    actually the "replacement" AI is a lower level than the stock AI you start a game with. Unless they recently changed that.

    I've not been able to tell any difference. If anything I feel replacement is better if they keep the build of the user that left.

    I really just want someone who says CPU is not good and isn't using exploits in the AI to show game footage of them beating two competent humans in a 6s game. I play threes, 3's, and 6's I have decent CR EASHL and threes. I'm not quite as good in 6's but mostly BECAUSE of cpu. Nearly EVERY loss in threes is vs CPU because of such a tiny amount of room and the reach and speed of a mascot. People with 1,000 cr are literally using the mascot to play defense for them and then half the time pass it to them the second they get into the offensive zone. Mascots are literally carrying teams to over 1,000 CR. In 6s there's just no way for me to squeak out wins esp. with randoms on my team and CPU on the other. They won't quit until we're down by a few.. if we go up by 4 their whole team but two quits.. they score 7 unanswered by the third and we have 1 min to comeback after our poor players quit. I've just explained 90% of 6s drop-in games. This is 100 x worse with human vs CPU goalie in drops.

    CPU is so broken in this game I've just about lost interest in the entire franchise and just pray someone else makes a game.. or that ps5 will magically fix everything. The only people I see complaining about poor AI are people who depend on the AI to win them games. What successful games gives this big of an advantage to players who are not good. I'm ok with CPU players who can pass and position but that should be the extent of their abilities. Make players earn their wins instead of gaming the system. We have trolls making people quit so they can have CPU's to play with. Matchmaking lobbies with people dropping out because the other team has too many CPUs. This problem makes the whole community toxic.
  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    What I love most that the @NHLDev team has done is.... drumroll please....
    After manhandling your opponent in every which way imaginable, one of them rage quits, right? No sweat, it’s a 4 goal game, easy W, right? Not if the AI has anything to do bout it! Which he does.

    You’ll see the AI sub in & play at an unworldly level which the usual AI in most instances does not. The stock AI skates aimlessly and plays cluelessly, skates full speed on a straight line directly into the goalie, tripping himself into the boards while never attempting the shot. The sub AI skates with some of the quirkiest, most seizure-like quick movements while pulling off all kinds of dekes or shots you’ll never see an AI do otherwise. He will do his damndest to win the game for his team that was at one point hopeless.


    You’d think the team with a quitter would be the one who is punished for it but instead they are rewarded while the better team is the one now having to answer.


    actually the "replacement" AI is a lower level than the stock AI you start a game with. Unless they recently changed that.

    I've not been able to tell any difference. If anything I feel replacement is better if they keep the build of the user that left.

    I really just want someone who says CPU is not good and isn't using exploits in the AI to show game footage of them beating two competent humans in a 6s game. I play threes, 3's, and 6's I have decent CR EASHL and threes. I'm not quite as good in 6's but mostly BECAUSE of cpu. Nearly EVERY loss in threes is vs CPU because of such a tiny amount of room and the reach and speed of a mascot. People with 1,000 cr are literally using the mascot to play defense for them and then half the time pass it to them the second they get into the offensive zone. Mascots are literally carrying teams to over 1,000 CR. In 6s there's just no way for me to squeak out wins esp. with randoms on my team and CPU on the other. They won't quit until we're down by a few.. if we go up by 4 their whole team but two quits.. they score 7 unanswered by the third and we have 1 min to comeback after our poor players quit. I've just explained 90% of 6s drop-in games. This is 100 x worse with human vs CPU goalie in drops.

    CPU is so broken in this game I've just about lost interest in the entire franchise and just pray someone else makes a game.. or that ps5 will magically fix everything. The only people I see complaining about poor AI are people who depend on the AI to win them games. What successful games gives this big of an advantage to players who are not good. I'm ok with CPU players who can pass and position but that should be the extent of their abilities. Make players earn their wins instead of gaming the system. We have trolls making people quit so they can have CPU's to play with. Matchmaking lobbies with people dropping out because the other team has too many CPUs. This problem makes the whole community toxic.

    i'm not sure what you mean by using "exploits". but if you aren't exploiting your enemy's weakness then you are just not playing right. CPU players have strength and weaknesses. but they are all repeatable because they do not have a learning AI. They do the same things over and over in the same situations. Learn what that is and how to use it to your advantage.

    you mention drop ins. that changes things quite a bit. CPU isn't better in drop in, but they are greatly elevated based on how bad most people in drop ins play. so it makes sense when those garbage players drop the replacement AI is a big boost. Especially if multiple drops happen and you have a few CPU that can play as a team.

    On flip side most top 6s players would never play with a CPU, because they can be so easily exploited defensively and at times a total mess offensively. In their mind just about any human they find would be better (those guys dont spend much time in drop ins and forget how bad the average player is).

    I know what you are saying, i'm just saying they aren't that good. Its all relative to what you are used to.

    also I believe whenever a player drops, at the first whistle his player is replaced by a standard "replacement" player with average size and i think base TWF or TWD build. NHLDev has mentioned it before.

    i'm incredibly lazy so no desire to even spend 15 secs grabbing videos. it sounds like this is a problem you see all the time so shouldn't be too hard to put up video examples of your own showing how unbeatable the CPU is. i'll be more than happy to watch :smile:

  • It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..
  • It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period
  • EA_Aljo
    3218 posts EA Community Manager
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.
  • Also, aljo i understand that the dev team and all you guys arent there for the almighty dollar. I was referring more to the fact that youre given low budget, small team, and little to work with. On top of that, every year it seems obvious that certain things are in the game to push people towards packs and stuff. I get it...its a business, but cmon man google EA and see what comes up. Not very many people like the company you work for, for good reason. Customers feel slighted, cheated, and ripped off by EA all the time. My problem is def not with any of you guys. Its with the guys im sure none of you have probably even met, sitting in a board room making decisions about a game they know nothing about and never play, all to make more money. These days, allowing resources for good QC, innovation, and NEW features (not removed ones broight back as new) is a GREAT way to get people to spend money but as it is...read these forums. How many posts do u see people say "im done with this game. Done with EA"? Theres good reasons, and it has NOTHING to do with you guys. We all know and understand you do the best with what youre given.

    But forgive us please for being leary because EA as a whole has a terrible track record with its customers. Its not YOU GUYS. We love you guys (No man love implied lol), but people in general are tired of EA.
  • I salivate when my team is down 3 or 4 nothing and then everyone quits but me and someone else. I know it's going to be an easy win.

    That is just plain wrong and shouldn't be the case. It has been like this for years. When I'm running drop in with a few buddies against other drop in squads, we literally have this happen almost every single game. We go up sometimes as little as 2 goals before we settle in for the most boring and frustrating gaming experience for the next 15 minutes as everyone quits on their team.

    It is about time this is addressed.
  • EA_Aljo
    3218 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.
  • EA_Aljo
    3218 posts EA Community Manager
    Also, aljo i understand that the dev team and all you guys arent there for the almighty dollar. I was referring more to the fact that youre given low budget, small team, and little to work with. On top of that, every year it seems obvious that certain things are in the game to push people towards packs and stuff. I get it...its a business, but cmon man google EA and see what comes up. Not very many people like the company you work for, for good reason. Customers feel slighted, cheated, and ripped off by EA all the time. My problem is def not with any of you guys. Its with the guys im sure none of you have probably even met, sitting in a board room making decisions about a game they know nothing about and never play, all to make more money. These days, allowing resources for good QC, innovation, and NEW features (not removed ones broight back as new) is a GREAT way to get people to spend money but as it is...read these forums. How many posts do u see people say "im done with this game. Done with EA"? Theres good reasons, and it has NOTHING to do with you guys. We all know and understand you do the best with what youre given.

    But forgive us please for being leary because EA as a whole has a terrible track record with its customers. Its not YOU GUYS. We love you guys (No man love implied lol), but people in general are tired of EA.

    You're also making a lot of assumptions. Not everything you read online is true. There are less ways to spend money in NHL than there were in the previous generation. For the last few years, F2P players have been given more free content and ways to earn rewards just by playing. It's a very viable way to build a competitive team. If we were only trying to push people to buy packs, you wouldn't see monthly rewards, Rivals, competitive seasons, Squad Battles, sets, etc.

    We also aren't bring back old features as new. We have returned old features and improved upon them, but never claimed they were brand new, never before in the game. See what I mean about assumptions? That's one that people have accused us of for a long time now and it just grew by people assuming that was the case.

    I get the skepticism. I promise you I do. I was a bit skeptical myself previously. When you actually get involved and see things from the inside, that completely changes. Obviously you all don't have that benefit and you have a hard time trusting us, but all we can do is put the truth out there and keep working with the community to earn back that trust. The people making this game are the ones making the decisions. Not the suits sitting around a table that don't know a thing about hockey. These are designers, artists and people with a huge amount of passion for making games that also love our favorite sport.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4770 posts EA Community Manager
    Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game.

    I sit right next to him and he literally plays this game any moment he has free time or when you are all discussing something specific he might jump on real quick just to double-check it. Biggest EA NHL fan I know, at least. For what it's worth.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    We dont let them do anything man. We defend properly but the goalies routinely let in softies that have no business goin in. No matter what kind of D you play, these goalies are terrible so bad chances go in far too often. If a puck goes straight at a goalie, unscreened and the goalie sees it....he should stop it. Especially from 30 feet out on slow shots. Of course goalies IRL arent perfect and theyll get sniped sometimes. But not from shots unscreened just inside the blueline going 25 mph.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Also, aljo i understand that the dev team and all you guys arent there for the almighty dollar. I was referring more to the fact that youre given low budget, small team, and little to work with. On top of that, every year it seems obvious that certain things are in the game to push people towards packs and stuff. I get it...its a business, but cmon man google EA and see what comes up. Not very many people like the company you work for, for good reason. Customers feel slighted, cheated, and ripped off by EA all the time. My problem is def not with any of you guys. Its with the guys im sure none of you have probably even met, sitting in a board room making decisions about a game they know nothing about and never play, all to make more money. These days, allowing resources for good QC, innovation, and NEW features (not removed ones broight back as new) is a GREAT way to get people to spend money but as it is...read these forums. How many posts do u see people say "im done with this game. Done with EA"? Theres good reasons, and it has NOTHING to do with you guys. We all know and understand you do the best with what youre given.

    But forgive us please for being leary because EA as a whole has a terrible track record with its customers. Its not YOU GUYS. We love you guys (No man love implied lol), but people in general are tired of EA.

    You're also making a lot of assumptions. Not everything you read online is true. There are less ways to spend money in NHL than there were in the previous generation. For the last few years, F2P players have been given more free content and ways to earn rewards just by playing. It's a very viable way to build a competitive team. If we were only trying to push people to buy packs, you wouldn't see monthly rewards, Rivals, competitive seasons, Squad Battles, sets, etc.

    We also aren't bring back old features as new. We have returned old features and improved upon them, but never claimed they were brand new, never before in the game. See what I mean about assumptions? That's one that people have accused us of for a long time now and it just grew by people assuming that was the case.

    I get the skepticism. I promise you I do. I was a bit skeptical myself previously. When you actually get involved and see things from the inside, that completely changes. Obviously you all don't have that benefit and you have a hard time trusting us, but all we can do is put the truth out there and keep working with the community to earn back that trust. The people making this game are the ones making the decisions. Not the suits sitting around a table that don't know a thing about hockey. These are designers, artists and people with a huge amount of passion for making games that also love our favorite sport.

    DUDE, theres been features removed before then like 3 years later RIGHT ON THE BOX advertised as new features.
  • EA_Aljo
    3218 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.
  • Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game.

    I sit right next to him and he literally plays this game any moment he has free time or when you are all discussing something specific he might jump on real quick just to double-check it. Biggest EA NHL fan I know, at least. For what it's worth.

    I dont doubt you guys love hockey and this game, and no doubt you play it a lot. Im VERY SORRY if i come off as a jerk sometimes. I know i can seem to be but please dont take it personal because its just me being passionate. Sometimes it just comes off wrong.
  • EA_Aljo
    3218 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Also, aljo i understand that the dev team and all you guys arent there for the almighty dollar. I was referring more to the fact that youre given low budget, small team, and little to work with. On top of that, every year it seems obvious that certain things are in the game to push people towards packs and stuff. I get it...its a business, but cmon man google EA and see what comes up. Not very many people like the company you work for, for good reason. Customers feel slighted, cheated, and ripped off by EA all the time. My problem is def not with any of you guys. Its with the guys im sure none of you have probably even met, sitting in a board room making decisions about a game they know nothing about and never play, all to make more money. These days, allowing resources for good QC, innovation, and NEW features (not removed ones broight back as new) is a GREAT way to get people to spend money but as it is...read these forums. How many posts do u see people say "im done with this game. Done with EA"? Theres good reasons, and it has NOTHING to do with you guys. We all know and understand you do the best with what youre given.

    But forgive us please for being leary because EA as a whole has a terrible track record with its customers. Its not YOU GUYS. We love you guys (No man love implied lol), but people in general are tired of EA.

    You're also making a lot of assumptions. Not everything you read online is true. There are less ways to spend money in NHL than there were in the previous generation. For the last few years, F2P players have been given more free content and ways to earn rewards just by playing. It's a very viable way to build a competitive team. If we were only trying to push people to buy packs, you wouldn't see monthly rewards, Rivals, competitive seasons, Squad Battles, sets, etc.

    We also aren't bring back old features as new. We have returned old features and improved upon them, but never claimed they were brand new, never before in the game. See what I mean about assumptions? That's one that people have accused us of for a long time now and it just grew by people assuming that was the case.

    I get the skepticism. I promise you I do. I was a bit skeptical myself previously. When you actually get involved and see things from the inside, that completely changes. Obviously you all don't have that benefit and you have a hard time trusting us, but all we can do is put the truth out there and keep working with the community to earn back that trust. The people making this game are the ones making the decisions. Not the suits sitting around a table that don't know a thing about hockey. These are designers, artists and people with a huge amount of passion for making games that also love our favorite sport.

    DUDE, theres been features removed before then like 3 years later RIGHT ON THE BOX advertised as new features.

    Can you show me which say they were never before in the game? The DSS is new. It's quite a bit improved over the previous iteration that was barely ever used. I saw it used more often during stoppages just to look silly. When it was introduced again a few years ago, it became quite useful.
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