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Just not good enough

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  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Just for the record I know I can speak for a lot of us as to your final paragraph. The frustration is that the ai gets unfair advantages in speed and strength and wins every 50/50 battle for the puck vs a human. Yes you can adjust for it, IF your whole team knows how (not likely for a drop in) and even if you do, it makes for a very boring, repetitive and most importantly completely unenjoyable final 5 to 55 game minutes. Then this is compounded by the fact the game has done nothing to battle the quitters for a decade so it's also rampant.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Also, aljo i understand that the dev team and all you guys arent there for the almighty dollar. I was referring more to the fact that youre given low budget, small team, and little to work with. On top of that, every year it seems obvious that certain things are in the game to push people towards packs and stuff. I get it...its a business, but cmon man google EA and see what comes up. Not very many people like the company you work for, for good reason. Customers feel slighted, cheated, and ripped off by EA all the time. My problem is def not with any of you guys. Its with the guys im sure none of you have probably even met, sitting in a board room making decisions about a game they know nothing about and never play, all to make more money. These days, allowing resources for good QC, innovation, and NEW features (not removed ones broight back as new) is a GREAT way to get people to spend money but as it is...read these forums. How many posts do u see people say "im done with this game. Done with EA"? Theres good reasons, and it has NOTHING to do with you guys. We all know and understand you do the best with what youre given.

    But forgive us please for being leary because EA as a whole has a terrible track record with its customers. Its not YOU GUYS. We love you guys (No man love implied lol), but people in general are tired of EA.

    You're also making a lot of assumptions. Not everything you read online is true. There are less ways to spend money in NHL than there were in the previous generation. For the last few years, F2P players have been given more free content and ways to earn rewards just by playing. It's a very viable way to build a competitive team. If we were only trying to push people to buy packs, you wouldn't see monthly rewards, Rivals, competitive seasons, Squad Battles, sets, etc.

    We also aren't bring back old features as new. We have returned old features and improved upon them, but never claimed they were brand new, never before in the game. See what I mean about assumptions? That's one that people have accused us of for a long time now and it just grew by people assuming that was the case.

    I get the skepticism. I promise you I do. I was a bit skeptical myself previously. When you actually get involved and see things from the inside, that completely changes. Obviously you all don't have that benefit and you have a hard time trusting us, but all we can do is put the truth out there and keep working with the community to earn back that trust. The people making this game are the ones making the decisions. Not the suits sitting around a table that don't know a thing about hockey. These are designers, artists and people with a huge amount of passion for making games that also love our favorite sport.

    DUDE, theres been features removed before then like 3 years later RIGHT ON THE BOX advertised as new features.

    Can you show me which say they were never before in the game? The DSS is new. It's quite a bit improved over the previous iteration that was barely ever used. I saw it used more often during stoppages just to look silly. When it was introduced again a few years ago, it became quite useful.

    It was last gen pretty sure but let me look it up and ill show ya.
  • The glide cannot be stopped with a hit unless you hit him head on in front.. that's why they turn their hips.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The people that complain about CPU's not being good are people who want/ need to be carried by the CPU and want easy wins. They will ask for what little mistakes they make to be corrected. I'm all for them having better 2 v 1 awareness if all of their abilities are dropped!

    Either way.. there's no point in buying this game anymore. I'm just not good enough to play drops and all my friends have diff schedules. I can't win vs the CPU. My best chance of winning is to let the other team score the first few goals.. the complete opposite of what you should do.

    I consider myself a well above average player.. I've put in some time, I know hockey, I ha e good cr when I play with my club but playing vs CPU is just always a loss. It's not fun at all. It's the most frustrating experience in ANY sports game available.

    The fact that only a handful of players feel they can beat CPU is insane. Makes 0 sense lmao! Such a joke! I'm not talking superstar difficulty. I can handle that.. it's eashl drops that I can't win. A game mode made FOR online players is mostly DOMINATED by CPU! Maybe JUST make CPU players worse in drops and in threes! Leave them good in club EASHL and HUT.. those are the modes that people want them to be better (personally I think those club players are likely the guys who run w/ 2 humans and want bailed out but what do I know.. the CPU should not be beating people so consistently. A cpu should be no better than the worst human.. teams should NOT be punished for someone quiting. Maybe even let us quit w/o losing cr if they get a team of CPU and we're winning. I'm so sick of losing to CPU players I just can't even play the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing the game offline anymore. Drops are Soooo poorly executed! People will stay in the game 2 v 6 because even down 4 goals they now have the advantage esp if you have just 1 bad guy.. how sad. Just drop their abilities in drops and threes so people can play these modes the right way!! What's the point of WoC if everyone is riding CPU's? Rebrand it WoEaCPU's!
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    Its no use. Were wrong.
  • EA_Aljo
    3217 posts EA Community Manager
    The glide cannot be stopped with a hit unless you hit him head on in front.. that's why they turn their hips.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The people that complain about CPU's not being good are people who want/ need to be carried by the CPU and want easy wins. They will ask for what little mistakes they make to be corrected. I'm all for them having better 2 v 1 awareness if all of their abilities are dropped!

    Either way.. there's no point in buying this game anymore. I'm just not good enough to play drops and all my friends have diff schedules. I can't win vs the CPU. My best chance of winning is to let the other team score the first few goals.. the complete opposite of what you should do.

    I consider myself a well above average player.. I've put in some time, I know hockey, I ha e good cr when I play with my club but playing vs CPU is just always a loss. It's not fun at all. It's the most frustrating experience in ANY sports game available.

    The fact that only a handful of players feel they can beat CPU is insane. Makes 0 sense lmao! Such a joke! I'm not talking superstar difficulty. I can handle that.. it's eashl drops that I can't win. A game mode made FOR online players is mostly DOMINATED by CPU! Maybe JUST make CPU players worse in drops and in threes! Leave them good in club EASHL and HUT.. those are the modes that people want them to be better (personally I think those club players are likely the guys who run w/ 2 humans and want bailed out but what do I know.. the CPU should not be beating people so consistently. A cpu should be no better than the worst human.. teams should NOT be punished for someone quiting. Maybe even let us quit w/o losing cr if they get a team of CPU and we're winning. I'm so sick of losing to CPU players I just can't even play the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing the game offline anymore. Drops are Soooo poorly executed! People will stay in the game 2 v 6 because even down 4 goals they now have the advantage esp if you have just 1 bad guy.. how sad. Just drop their abilities in drops and threes so people can play these modes the right way!! What's the point of WoC if everyone is riding CPU's? Rebrand it WoEaCPU's!

    The AI players can be deadly when you have 3+ of them on one side. However, they can be countered when you know how to defend against them. The biggest problem is that most people chase for hits in drop-ins. They don't play as a coordinated team. People aren't on the same page with how to stop them. Once you cut off their passing and shooting lanes, you'll see they become a lot less of a threat.

    AI players at least let people still play together. If we didn't have them and you only could play 3s or 6s, all humans, there would be a far smaller population of players. So, if we make them play worse, we'll get complaints about how bad they are. When we make them competent, we get complaints they are too good. We can possibly encourage people to stay in games more, but that can also be frustrating when you have human teammates that are not fun to play with. It's a difficult situation to perfectly handle, but we're always looking to improve it.
  • EA_Aljo
    3217 posts EA Community Manager
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controlsupportive. mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.

    While i agree theyre beatable, thats not really the point. The MAJORITY of your player base has a hard time with them, and they absolutely should not take over games. Just lower key attributes like shot acc., puck control, and awareness maybe. Their shots are like they have a sniper scope on the shaft of their stick lol.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    The glide cannot be stopped with a hit unless you hit him head on in front.. that's why they turn their hips.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The people that complain about CPU's not being good are people who want/ need to be carried by the CPU and want easy wins. They will ask for what little mistakes they make to be corrected. I'm all for them having better 2 v 1 awareness if all of their abilities are dropped!

    Either way.. there's no point in buying this game anymore. I'm just not good enough to play drops and all my friends have diff schedules. I can't win vs the CPU. My best chance of winning is to let the other team score the first few goals.. the complete opposite of what you should do.

    I consider myself a well above average player.. I've put in some time, I know hockey, I ha e good cr when I play with my club but playing vs CPU is just always a loss. It's not fun at all. It's the most frustrating experience in ANY sports game available.

    The fact that only a handful of players feel they can beat CPU is insane. Makes 0 sense lmao! Such a joke! I'm not talking superstar difficulty. I can handle that.. it's eashl drops that I can't win. A game mode made FOR online players is mostly DOMINATED by CPU! Maybe JUST make CPU players worse in drops and in threes! Leave them good in club EASHL and HUT.. those are the modes that people want them to be better (personally I think those club players are likely the guys who run w/ 2 humans and want bailed out but what do I know.. the CPU should not be beating people so consistently. A cpu should be no better than the worst human.. teams should NOT be punished for someone quiting. Maybe even let us quit w/o losing cr if they get a team of CPU and we're winning. I'm so sick of losing to CPU players I just can't even play the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing the game offline anymore. Drops are Soooo poorly executed! People will stay in the game 2 v 6 because even down 4 goals they now have the advantage esp if you have just 1 bad guy.. how sad. Just drop their abilities in drops and threes so people can play these modes the right way!! What's the point of WoC if everyone is riding CPU's? Rebrand it WoEaCPU's!

    The AI players can be deadly when you have 3+ of them on one side. However, they can be countered when you know how to defend against them. The biggest problem is that most people chase for hits in drop-ins. They don't play as a coordinated team. People aren't on the same page with how to stop them. Once you cut off their passing and shooting lanes, you'll see they become a lot less of a threat.

    AI players at least let people still play together. If we didn't have them and you only could play 3s or 6s, all humans, there would be a far smaller population of players. So, if we make them play worse, we'll get complaints about how bad they are. When we make them competent, we get complaints they are too good. We can possibly encourage people to stay in games more, but that can also be frustrating when you have human teammates that are not fun to play with. It's a difficult situation to perfectly handle, but we're always looking to improve it.

    If only there was some way in the whole existing universe we could at least try that would encourage players not to quit in the first place and just solve the problem at its root...
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controlsupportive. mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.

    While i agree theyre beatable, thats not really the point. The MAJORITY of your player base has a hard time with them, and they absolutely should not take over games. Just lower key attributes like shot acc., puck control, and awareness maybe. Their shots are like they have a sniper scope on the shaft of their stick lol.

    THIS! There can be a happy medium.. as it stands unless you're in a club or have 4-5 friends and you're comunicating the CPU is too good. No drop in teams are beating them. People are playing with and complaining about CPU's so much BECAUSE you made them so good that people are depending on them so much and in MANY cases don't WANT human players on their team.

    The fix is simple.. make CPU players trash in the 1 game mode that was created FOR online play with human players. Correct me if I'm wrong but WoC is supposed to be for humans right??? EA J go into a club match making and search for a club to play against. Tell me how often you get a team of 2. Try threes, 3's 6's anything.. people WANT to play with CPU's because they're good they're better than well over 95% of humans. Players complain about the few mistakes that they make because they want them to be even better to give them a bigger advantage when playing with them. If CPUs were worse people would actively search for humans to play with. Add in more ways that people can search for other players, add in ways that we can see trolls/ quiters.

    Of ANY game I play this has the WORST community the CPU's are not the entire problem but they definitely make it worse! I think there should also be a vote to kick button. Everyone would use this if the CPU's are as is but they would only do it if the player was a troll if the CPU is bad.

    Just make the CPU play positional hockey. They already make the best line to reach the puck so slow them down because they ALWAYS beat humans to get it. Don't allow them to intercept anything near them, don't allow them to shoot THAT well, just drop their abilities, they shouldn't touch me and have me stumbling all over myself and losing the puck, or poking from BEHIND me and getting it free. Give them the same abilities as human players and slow them down. That's ALL that needs to be done. They would still be competent enough to be out there. Players could still ask them to pass. Just make them beatable. This game is a JOKE because of it and I still can't honestly believe EA J plays this game haha. This guy works a 9-5 and just sits on the forums defending the game no matter what hahaha prob never played a sport in his life either...

    This game could be so much better but night after night CPU players ruin a good time. Unless you have a club of 6 all on at once it's a waste of time to play just to get frustrated by programming.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controlsupportive. mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.

    While i agree theyre beatable, thats not really the point. The MAJORITY of your player base has a hard time with them, and they absolutely should not take over games. Just lower key attributes like shot acc., puck control, and awareness maybe. Their shots are like they have a sniper scope on the shaft of their stick lol.

    THIS! There can be a happy medium.. as it stands unless you're in a club or have 4-5 friends and you're comunicating the CPU is too good. No drop in teams are beating them. People are playing with and complaining about CPU's so much BECAUSE you made them so good that people are depending on them so much and in MANY cases don't WANT human players on their team.

    The fix is simple.. make CPU players trash in the 1 game mode that was created FOR online play with human players. Correct me if I'm wrong but WoC is supposed to be for humans right??? EA J go into a club match making and search for a club to play against. Tell me how often you get a team of 2. Try threes, 3's 6's anything.. people WANT to play with CPU's because they're good they're better than well over 95% of humans. Players complain about the few mistakes that they make because they want them to be even better to give them a bigger advantage when playing with them. If CPUs were worse people would actively search for humans to play with. Add in more ways that people can search for other players, add in ways that we can see trolls/ quiters.

    Of ANY game I play this has the WORST community the CPU's are not the entire problem but they definitely make it worse! I think there should also be a vote to kick button. Everyone would use this if the CPU's are as is but they would only do it if the player was a troll if the CPU is bad.

    Just make the CPU play positional hockey. They already make the best line to reach the puck so slow them down because they ALWAYS beat humans to get it. Don't allow them to intercept anything near them, don't allow them to shoot THAT well, just drop their abilities, they shouldn't touch me and have me stumbling all over myself and losing the puck, or poking from BEHIND me and getting it free. Give them the same abilities as human players and slow them down. That's ALL that needs to be done. They would still be competent enough to be out there. Players could still ask them to pass. Just make them beatable. This game is a JOKE because of it and I still can't honestly believe EA J plays this game haha. This guy works a 9-5 and just sits on the forums defending the game no matter what hahaha prob never played a sport in his life either...

    This game could be so much better but night after night CPU players ruin a good time. Unless you have a club of 6 all on at once it's a waste of time to play just to get frustrated by programming.

    Just hit that flag button from now on when certain people are being rude and condescending. WE cant act that way, but its ok for some?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.

    Omg, how far you are from the truth. You are playing your club together with your teamates, that's all. This is completely different case. In drop-in you have random teamates and human goalies. You definitely don't understand and you completely missed the point. This is the reason why I'm telling you take a challenge and play the same way like many of us are playing on daily basis. Only then you will be able to fix this broken mode and your eyes will open. You will see that AI defenders are completely useless and are not able to defend AI forwards. And where are our human defenders, maybe you are asking yourself. I will tell you, they already quit the game for unknown reasons. So as you can see from this example, drop-in is very different and that's the reason why godlike AI forwards ruin the game mode which was intended to be played mostly by human players. We cannot enjoy this game mode anymore.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    Its no use. Were wrong.

    But really, we’re right. They simply choose to pretend otherwise & redirect the conversation in infinite circles so they won’t have to take accountability for all the many issues we bring to their attention.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    I most definitely know what I'm talking about. When you have human defenders that know how to play against the AI, they are very beatable.

    It isn’t that simple and you know it. I can defend properly against the AI just as many of the people I play with. But even when playing a more passively smart style & staying sound positionally, the AI’s who fill in for rage quitters will make sure it’s a close game at the end. You can play a great team game defensively but that doesn’t matter when the fill in ai starts jitter skating and throwing rebound shots off the pads to himself and slamming it home all in one smooth, physics-defying, stupid looking animation. That’s just one example of something I see they have been coded to do to win games for sub par players & there’s not a legitimate way to prevent or defend against it other than luck. And the luck is favored to them every time, otherwise there wouldn’t be a need for them to glitch animate everything or anything to their benefit. There is not one human player at all who can imitate those wonky animations, including you. You can only do your best to limit those chances because you cannot stop them. If you take away one wonky animation, they’ll animate something even wonkier around that. Those who play the game enough can easily tell when certain things will start to happen or even how they will in very particular situations during these games. I mean it’s so easy to recognize that suddenly everything is different looking, different feeling, and dictating the outcome of games. If you tell me you don’t see AI’s coming in doing toe drags or dekes and stick handling while skating and shooting in a vastly superior manner in those instances then you’re lying about it and that’s the simple bottom line. An ai taking over games to win it for his scrub teammates down by 3-4 goals is common and it’s also an atrocity to your work. But that’s the very point, right? They take over because of the fact that their teammates are indeed scrubs. God forbid they get hammered in a game against a better opponent who actually has invested time and interest into developing their skill. Why do that when you could give em an ai who can singlehandedly create a bunch of garbage to easily cover a 3 goal deficit in the blink of an eye. Bottom line is if the ai wants something to happen, it will, at all costs.



  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    Its no use. Were wrong.

    But really, we’re right. They simply choose to pretend otherwise & redirect the conversation in infinite circles so they won’t have to take accountability for all the many issues we bring to their attention.

    Yeah, most of the "learn to play" answers in this thread, and many more, are pretty useless and condescending.
  • Definitely the big issue is whether the Ai want to play positionally or not. Sometimes they're there and can read an obvious play and other times they do their best to literally remove themselves from the situation. There are games where the ai can't intercept an easy pass to save their lives and there are games where they turn away from it and intercept it easily on a no look "Hey look my stick has glue on it!" play.

    I recorded one period in a game of 3s (with somebody who I don't play with) and even though we definitely deserved to get torched because the giveaways were bad, we weren't patient, etc., neither was the other team but the difference is easily detectable with the computer defense on both teams. Several times when they forced passes through they went, and when we did it, the old no look pick off happened.



    Just ignore the whining lol. Like I'm saying, we deserved to lose hands down (my teammate and I obviously didn't wanna play defense) but you can obviously see our ai intentionally skate out of position, couldn't pick off a pass that went thru him, not following his man, etc. while the guy on the other team is clearly just stealing pucks it seems a bit one sided doesn't it? They other team didn't even have to throw our defender off via use of dekes, backhand passes, stop and go's, they just skated up beside him and did nothing. One of their goals in the 2nd period was the player literally skated into him, he did nothing (no poke, no hit) even though their chests were touching and then he just fires off a shot far side and it went in. It was on max aggressiveness lol.

    Just seems biased. I wish I had recorded the whole game.
  • Also here's another video. And not once did the opposing player who received the pass alter his speed. He was b-lining it to the net.



    That's how bad the ai is positionally sometimes. Wish I had a better angle but was at the mercy of the replays.
  • This game is pathetic, something has to be done about quitters. Are you devs so clueless to see it ruins games, or do you need footage. Close down an sell all assets. You fools are blind.
  • So many broken things I could write a book
  • bryta47 wrote: »
    Mc41DMB wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    It sounds like you're just giving the ol' "they're not that good and if you were good enough you could beat them like any other top player.." the thing is, I've played with a lot of top players and top clubs and many of them do hate CPU. It's easy to say how people mess up vs CPU because they read your button presses and react before your player moves sometimes so many things LOOK like mistakes that wouldn't otherwise be vs human players, hence why me posting a video makes 0 sense. I posted exactly what happens to me vs CPU. I pass, they read it and often pick it. I try to skate a bit and they catch me. Loose puck or rebound and they get it. Humans pass to CPU and they get goals. CPU usually ends up netting 3-4 goals to bring them back. exploiting is using backskate and other things not commonly used in hockey. Sure it gets you wins but at what point is something cheating? lag switching how is that different? Hiding behind the net? Invincible backskate forehand/backhand glide bys? If those are your tactics then that sounds like you don't want to play hockey but JUST want to win and you're part of the awful community that keep many actual fans of hockey from wanting to play. I want to play hockey with my friends.

    I have a small club with friends and we all have different schedules so I'm usually forced to play drops if I do want to play 6's. Out of curiosity what is your psn if on PlayStation?

    I just honestly feel I can't and won't ever be good enough to beat the CPU and until something is fixed I think I'm done playing and purchasing the game. My friends have no interest in playing anymore, they've all switched to 2k. I get why, I don't feel frustrated after every game there.. if someone quits a bad CPU takes their place. I hate basketball but at least I can play it without wanting to throw a controller. I don't mind losing in a game but when it's against a cpu with UNREAL abilities that I can't use all because I am getting punished for starting good! It's sad that if I get scored on a couple times in the first period my chances of winning increase because CPUs will come in and help. If I go down two goals I should have to dig myself out.. not just pass to a cpu and let them get me a win. I dunno if I've ever lost in 20 when I've had more CPU help than the other team.i really don't think I have.

    Point being if the ONLY people who (apparently) believe CPU's are bad (and are not using them for their advantage) are people who are playing some other mode other than drops (which I've searched for long periods of time in club and almost never find teams) and they're WAY better than I am then they must LIVE on this game. Why should the CPU be so good that they're the only ones who can beat them? I have almost 90% winning in threes almost all losses are vs teams w/ CPU usually the worse the guys we're playing the more the CPU will tend to carry. I get that EA is money hungry but how does this even make sense from a business standpoint? Are there enough bad players buying because they want to be carried? Are there so few players like me fed up with CPUs? Almost everyone I play with has these same issues. The only ones that seem to have it figured out are some people in the forums. At this point I just think sales need to drop so someone else can make a game. If there really is this done that they can't get out from then someone else needs to make a quality game where people are not using the same exploits and CPU players are not constantly beating humans by using abilities that humans cannot have.

    This game is SO good when you play with all humans and no one is using the L2 spam/ forehand/backhand glides. It's SUCH a fun game and the sky would be the limit. It's just that you almost NEVER get a game like that. CPU's kill fun. The game just induces stress anymore..

    They have come out and said they leave these things in game on purpose. Im paraphrasing here but it was something like "why should we limit how people play?" Thats the problem right there. They dont take pride in making a HOCKEY game. They want as many people as possible to buy, and i get that, so they purposely leave things in that allow people with no hockey skill or knowledge to compete. Instead of steering them in the right direction through more in game tutorials, training, whatever, its designed to allow this kind of crap to happen to appeal to a broader audience.

    Ok, leave that garbage in EA modes then. If it has NHL players in it, it should represent NHL HOCKEY. So, hut, and vs should NEVER allow this kind of play. Its a HUGE misrepresentation of the sport, and kind of a smack in the face to the real players who buy this game to play NHL style hockey. They dont even have half of the real penalties programmed into the game. In the end, its the almighty dollar that makes their design decisions....not the dev team which is unfortunate because if they had free reign over the game, i bet there would be many less complaints. Theres 2 main problems with this game...E....and A. Period

    I don't think we said it quite like that. However, forcing people to play your style of hockey doesn't seem like the answer. The sport has evolved tremendously over the 100+ years of its existence. Would you like rather goalies only play stand up like they used to? Would you like sticks to not have curved blades? I don't see a problem with people getting creative. There's a counter for everything. I'm not saying I want to see players backskating all over the place. To be fair, I'm not seeing that as frequently as it's being called out and recent changes have made it more difficult to do. Regardless, you can still defend those players. Even if they didn't backskate, how much higher are your chances of beating them? You still have to generate offense. If you can't beat them when they're LT'ing, you probably will still have a very big challenge if they aren't doing that.

    The lack of realism with LT'ing is one I definitely understand and it would really bother me if I saw it being abused in every game. No matter what game you play though, there are going to be those that look to exploit it. That's human nature, unfortunately. Game developers put a lot of work into dealing with exploits, but people are pretty crafty and continually find ways to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's on us to remove them, but it's far easier said than done as you're often dealing with core mechanics of the game where changing them can have worse effects than leaving them in.

    It's not about the almighty dollar making decisions. It's about what is best for the game, but that is not an easy task whatsoever. The people who make this game have a huge amount of control over it. It's not one guy in a suit that doesn't know the difference between offside and icing making decisions. There are very passionate fans of the sport as well as the video game that are making it. In a perfect world they could build everything you guys want every year, but that's not the case. The technology behind it all is incredibly complex. These things take time. Then there's constantly combatting those that find ways to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended. I get how easy it is to be on the outside making the assumptions you do. I had similar assumptions before I started working here. Speaking as a very longtime fan of this game, I can tell you it's wildly different than what you think when you're at home, on the couch, yelling at your opponent for LT'ing.

    Theres a diff between being creative and straight up cheating the system. And sorry sir, but you absolutely did tell someone " why should we limit how people play?" Answer is you shouldnt...but they should also have to play some style RESEMBLING hockey to be successful. Problem is, the door is left open for the exploits and easy ways to score without playing a team game. Youre taking what i said way out of context, and being very passive aggressive which is not very nice for an EA employee. I like you guys that come on here and we ALL appreciate it...you have no idea but, maybe tone down the sarcasm, as well as the "but i play this way and its fine" attitude. Not being a jerk, just pointing out that you may not mean to but at times you come off as rude and condescending.

    Back to matter at hand, there just needs to better a better balance between the success of scoring when playing realistically versus guys who play the one man show LTing (still there btw), curling stick so hits bounce off them no matter the angle,speed, and size of your player. My point is, make it more rewarding to play as a team, and people will join in.

    Give some kind of rewards tied to actual in game performance. Dont pass the puck or use your teammates? Low score...low rewards. Set up, cycle, play hockey...higher rewards. Give incentive for people to play right.

    What I meant was that we should have some freedom for people to have their own style of play. Within certain limits. We want to avoid exploits and glitches obviously, but we should force everyone into the same playstyle. Some guys are better and a run and gun type game. Others are better at moving the puck. This is also part of your chosen strategy. If you see your opponent likes to chase the puck, playing a more team-oriented style of play would give you an advantage as they're going to leave open lanes you can use for good scoring chances. If we force everyone to play exactly the same, it probably wouldn't be much fun. Like I said though, that doesn't mean we promote exploiting game mechanics. Steps have been taken to make LT'ing less affective and I know this is being monitored by the dev team.

    If your hits are bouncing off them, you need to recognize that you're not generating enough momentum with your hit and you're probably not using a good angle. Instead of going for hits, wait until they give you a better opportunity for a poke, stick lift or incidental contact. They slow down a lot when curling the stick behind their back. You can take advantage of this.

    It can be very rewarding to play as a team, but many people choose not to do this or they might not be as good at it as they think. The tools for you to cycle the puck are there. It's up to you to use them. As far as having higher rewards for teamplay goes, I like the idea, but it also opens up more exploiting. For example, if you got better rewards for passing more, you could see guys ragging the puck more and just keep passing it around in their zone. With every change to the game, you have to consider how it can be abused. I'd rather see team play rewarded by people realizing they raise their chances at winning by generating better scoring chances with cycling. You have to consider also that if someone is getting away with selfish play, it's partly because their opponent is letting them.

    You say the game of hockey is evolving.. the problem is that the game isn't.. when it does it evolves in ways that the sport isn't. How many times do we see 1 hand tucks in the NHL? How many time per GAME do we see people score with this online?

    Momentum and angle have NOTHING to do with the glide glitch. Some of your posts suggest you've not ACTUALLY played this game. You put the puck on your forehand or backhand and turn/glide against a player going in for a hit. You won't take the hit the player trying to hit will usually stumble. There is almost no way to beat this 1 on 1 unless you get help from another player leaving someone else open. This happens in any game you play with a team that knows how to use it. This is not about how you wanna play but how you want to cheat the system sometimes.. this post is getting off topic though. It's about how the cpu:'s have been programmed to be gods.

    I think that today's hockey isn't the same as it was 20+ years ago. It's definitely a lot different than 50 years back. The sport has certainly evolved, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

    If you hit someone curling the puck behind their back with enough force behind their hit and from the right angle, you're going to knock them off the puck and in most cases, knock them to the ice. What you're talking about is effective when you switch to a player that is near the carrier and they go for a hit when as the carrier is fading away from them. The defender hasn't built up enough force behind the hit to knock the puck loose.

    Those that cheat the system are playing how they want to play. I'm not ok with this. I'm not saying they should be allowed to exploit the game. The reality is, there will always be ways to exploit the game. Just like how you can exploit pretty much anything with rules. Regardless, you should have a certain amount of freedom to play according to your own style. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you you're only allowed to make 2 passes before you have to shoot. Well, if that's effective for someone, why shouldn't they use it? It's on you to learn how to defend it. Yes, it's not exactly realistic hockey, but how are you going to force someone to play what you deem to be realistic hockey? Look at guys using the Lacrosse goal this year. You've also seen a lot more between the legs goals in the last few years. Should these not be allowed because they're not exactly traditional ways to score?

    The CPU players are not programmed to be gods. We see feedback on both sides of this though. They're either too good or they're too bad. Some people know how to defend them, some don't. The ones that don't are more inclined to say they're godlike instead of adapt to how they play. I used to struggle against superstar AI. When I learned how to play them, they became less of a threat. I'm not saying the AI players don't need improvement. There's room for that for sure, but I can't agree they are gods on the ice.

    Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. As I already told you, take a challenge, play Drop-In 6v6 for a week. When human players quit the game, AI forwards show you how poor your defense is. After that, come back and post your comment here.

    Its no use. Were wrong.

    But really, we’re right. They simply choose to pretend otherwise & redirect the conversation in infinite circles so they won’t have to take accountability for all the many issues we bring to their attention.

    Yeah, most of the "learn to play" answers in this thread, and many more, are pretty useless and condescending.

    Yeah ive pointed that out to another EA employee and was told to start flagging those sarcastic comments
This discussion has been closed.

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