Why would you be able to kick someone on the opposite team?
Many games that have a vote kick system are by full majority (of course, this is normally meant for blatant aim-botters and the like that just ruin for everyone).
You can do it by team but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't like seeing groups of two +join in pre-game lobby and the paranoia of knowing.they could be kicked for no reason in-game.
I'm not saying it can't work, there just need to be some safeguards in place
I believe some servers in BF3 had this if my memory serves me right. I remember in some servers the vote to kick option would repeatedly pop up throughout the match because someone thought a skilled player was cheating or trolling other players on the team. To be direct, it was annoying and ruined immersion at times.
1. How would you incentivize good play?
2. If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
You probably cannot do either of those things. You can't control how people behave on your platform you can only limit or expand the tools you give them. Things you could try is that you directly get or lose XP from the amount of turnovers, breakout passes, poke checks, clearing the zone, keeping the puck in the zone... all the small things need to get rewarded somehow if you want people to do them more often but there will still be people who don't do those things. Or you could give the players who get good teamplay or position grades better gear rewards or something. Still kinda think this is wasted effort.
For drop-ins the best thing IMO would be the ability to join mid game and to not break up the existing group after the game. After the game is over shuffle the teams (apart from parties), 1 minute in lobby, new game. If someone leaves mid game someone can join to fill up. That would hopefully keep the games full and people would want to keep playing because 2 guys leaving wouldn't mean the game is practically over.
You could even do something clever with this and make a David Ayres gear pack or something for joining as a replacement goalie and winning.
Edit. In game text chat would also spice up the game.
In fact, for 6v6 population has never NOT been low.
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Growing up with lobbies for games I remember they were a ton of fun. You might still see them in some games these days, but not to the extent of what you used to. They would be a great addition on top of what we already have for those that really enjoy conversing with others and looking for rivalry type of matchups, but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle. Your pitch, @HoodHoppers, is that this is required to revitalize EASHL where on paper this sounds logical because in order for us to have a GREAT EASHL experience, most of time it's a social factor that's playing a part in it. EASHL is honestly one of the coolest game modes out there when you have a group of friends online to play with. Those Friday and Saturday nights are unlike any other games I play! Implementing this with an intention of how it will be used doesn't mean it will work out the way we want it, unfortunately.
We've discussed this before in another thread and even NHLDev touched up on the lobby system about it. We know there are a lot of players that are interested in it but again, but there could be a whole lot of other ways we can help improve EASHL by incentivize better play from players whether it be for those dropping in, encourage to join clubs, rewards for Chel and/or HUT, and whatever else the community can help brainstorm.
Based off what you said the root of the problem is matchmaking with players that don't play their position properly, hog the puck, or troll.
So let's kick off the discussion like this:
How would you incentivize good play?
If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
you guys say the discussions here are listened to yet every few months, sometimes for years, you have posts like this. a topic that has been discussed at insane levels already, enough suggestions to fill a warehouse, etc... yet then we get posts like this that make it seem like you are suggesting this is a new concern that no one has thought about before. Maybe it has something to do with new "community managers" every 6 months that seem to rotate in here. i swear these forums are like a blackhole where concerns and good ideas just go to die.
Why would you be able to kick someone on the opposite team?
Many games that have a vote kick system are by full majority (of course, this is normally meant for blatant aim-botters and the like that just ruin for everyone).
You can do it by team but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't like seeing groups of two +join in pre-game lobby and the paranoia of knowing.they could be kicked for no reason in-game.
I'm not saying it can't work, there just need to be some safeguards in place
I believe some servers in BF3 had this if my memory serves me right. I remember in some servers the vote to kick option would repeatedly pop up throughout the match because someone thought a skilled player was cheating or trolling other players on the team. To be direct, it was annoying and ruined immersion at times.
If players are limited to starting one vote queue per game that would help prevent spamming.
The stuff I hear in ONES all the time.. not to mention the chat I see in BFV, hoo boy, a similar feature in NHL would be mega super salty and toxic.
Having one vote per game would help with spam but what would happen if there was another person you wanted gone?
I remember in MGO I would purposely vote a random person right before I knew they were going to vote me gone -- they'd of course get booted and there would be a cooldown for a minute or two (just enough to end the round) so stuff like that would also need to be looked at.
Before if you made a bad pass or went offside and looked like a doofus you could just speak up on the mic and say sorry about that, and everyone would hear. It's not so simple now because most people are in private party chats. So maybe a little text box in the corner would be a good idea.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Uh no...just cut out crap like useless snoop and use those resources. I myself will never get mad or upset over you guys using resources on important quality of life fixes.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Good points.
But for me who plays strictly EASHL, then this game isn't even a roster update for me. So yes, I absolutely want to see resources added for anti grieving especially since EA has stated how seriously they take it. I don't see why it would have to be specifically NHL resources as many other EA games would benefit from a type of anti trolling measures implemented into the game.
Let's face it. The online portion can be extremely toxic and something has to be done about it. Seems more important than chewable mouthguards or 200 parkas, but that's just me.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Uh no...just cut out crap like useless snoop and use those resources. I myself will never get mad or upset over you guys using resources on important quality of life fixes.
Exactly. I do not know how much time/resources it took to get Snoop, chewable mouthguards and 1800 CHEL items, but I would think it would cover the costs of finding ways to create a better and safer environment.
Don't forget young children play this game too and they should absolutely have a safe and friendly environment to play hockey.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Uh no...just cut out crap like useless snoop and use those resources. I myself will never get mad or upset over you guys using resources on important quality of life fixes.
In fact, for 6v6 population has never NOT been low.
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Growing up with lobbies for games I remember they were a ton of fun. You might still see them in some games these days, but not to the extent of what you used to. They would be a great addition on top of what we already have for those that really enjoy conversing with others and looking for rivalry type of matchups, but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle. Your pitch, @HoodHoppers, is that this is required to revitalize EASHL where on paper this sounds logical because in order for us to have a GREAT EASHL experience, most of time it's a social factor that's playing a part in it. EASHL is honestly one of the coolest game modes out there when you have a group of friends online to play with. Those Friday and Saturday nights are unlike any other games I play! Implementing this with an intention of how it will be used doesn't mean it will work out the way we want it, unfortunately.
We've discussed this before in another thread and even NHLDev touched up on the lobby system about it. We know there are a lot of players that are interested in it but again, but there could be a whole lot of other ways we can help improve EASHL by incentivize better play from players whether it be for those dropping in, encourage to join clubs, rewards for Chel and/or HUT, and whatever else the community can help brainstorm.
Based off what you said the root of the problem is matchmaking with players that don't play their position properly, hog the puck, or troll.
So let's kick off the discussion like this:
How would you incentivize good play?
If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Extending wait times? lol You can't be serious.
Let me give you an example:
NHL15 for PS3 has on average 100 online players on any given evening.
Could you imagine how long it would take to get a 6v6 game going if you had the current NHL20 matchmaker as your only means to get a game? It might take all night.
Lobby system.. you all jump in a room (central in this case), some one starts a room, and it gets filled in seconds. It's the sole reason why we can still play online 6v6 (OTP) in that game to this day.
but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
Why should you be forced to go OUTSIDE the game for this feature?
It should be IN the game that you're actually playing, isn't that much easier and more convenient?
I'm not saying get rid of the matchmaker, have that as well. Just like last gen, there was both and it worked great.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle.
Of course the lobby system in last gen was not perfect, but with a few tweaks you could drastically minimize the trolls and fix it's shortcomings.
[*] How would you incentivize good play?
[*] If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
I don't know if you can. A troll is gonna troll. A bad player is going to try his/her best but will still be bad.
I would like to see a proper club practice mode like we used to have. Also a quick on ice test mode to quickly test fresh chel builds, again, like we used to have.
We really did have a lot of cool features last gen that were taken away for seemingly no reason.
Dont worry, theyll be back soon with a different name and advertised as all new. Theyve been doing that for years.
Can you give me an example where a feature was removed and returned as brand new, never before in the game? I'm not talking about a feature like DSS which was advertised as new and improved over the previous version.
Yeah outdoor rinks. You said never before has a NHL game had outdoor rinks. Go check out NHL '06.
In fact, for 6v6 population has never NOT been low.
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Growing up with lobbies for games I remember they were a ton of fun. You might still see them in some games these days, but not to the extent of what you used to. They would be a great addition on top of what we already have for those that really enjoy conversing with others and looking for rivalry type of matchups, but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle. Your pitch, @HoodHoppers, is that this is required to revitalize EASHL where on paper this sounds logical because in order for us to have a GREAT EASHL experience, most of time it's a social factor that's playing a part in it. EASHL is honestly one of the coolest game modes out there when you have a group of friends online to play with. Those Friday and Saturday nights are unlike any other games I play! Implementing this with an intention of how it will be used doesn't mean it will work out the way we want it, unfortunately.
We've discussed this before in another thread and even NHLDev touched up on the lobby system about it. We know there are a lot of players that are interested in it but again, but there could be a whole lot of other ways we can help improve EASHL by incentivize better play from players whether it be for those dropping in, encourage to join clubs, rewards for Chel and/or HUT, and whatever else the community can help brainstorm.
Based off what you said the root of the problem is matchmaking with players that don't play their position properly, hog the puck, or troll.
So let's kick off the discussion like this:
How would you incentivize good play?
If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Extending wait times? lol You can't be serious.
Let me give you an example:
NHL15 for PS3 has on average 100 online players on any given evening.
Could you imagine how long it would take to get a 6v6 game going if you had the current NHL20 matchmaker as your only means to get a game? It might take all night.
Lobby system.. you all jump in a room (central in this case), some one starts a room, and it gets filled in seconds. It's the sole reason why we can still play online 6v6 (OTP) in that game to this day.
but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
Why should you be forced to go OUTSIDE the game for this feature?
It should be IN the game that you're actually playing, isn't that much easier and more convenient?
I'm not saying get rid of the matchmaker, have that as well. Just like last gen, there was both and it worked great.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle.
Of course the lobby system in last gen was not perfect, but with a few tweaks you could drastically minimize the trolls and fix it's shortcomings.
[*] How would you incentivize good play?
[*] If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
I don't know if you can. A troll is gonna troll. A bad player is going to try his/her best but will still be bad.
I would like to see a proper club practice mode like we used to have. Also a quick on ice test mode to quickly test fresh chel builds, again, like we used to have.
We really did have a lot of cool features last gen that were taken away for seemingly no reason.
Dont worry, theyll be back soon with a different name and advertised as all new. Theyve been doing that for years.
Can you give me an example where a feature was removed and returned as brand new, never before in the game? I'm not talking about a feature like DSS which was advertised as new and improved over the previous version.
Yeah outdoor rinks. You said never before has a NHL game had outdoor rinks. Go check out NHL '06.
There ya go. Thats one, and if i didnt feel like id just get a rude reply and excuses id actually care enough to go dig for other examples.
In fact, for 6v6 population has never NOT been low.
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Growing up with lobbies for games I remember they were a ton of fun. You might still see them in some games these days, but not to the extent of what you used to. They would be a great addition on top of what we already have for those that really enjoy conversing with others and looking for rivalry type of matchups, but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle. Your pitch, @HoodHoppers, is that this is required to revitalize EASHL where on paper this sounds logical because in order for us to have a GREAT EASHL experience, most of time it's a social factor that's playing a part in it. EASHL is honestly one of the coolest game modes out there when you have a group of friends online to play with. Those Friday and Saturday nights are unlike any other games I play! Implementing this with an intention of how it will be used doesn't mean it will work out the way we want it, unfortunately.
We've discussed this before in another thread and even NHLDev touched up on the lobby system about it. We know there are a lot of players that are interested in it but again, but there could be a whole lot of other ways we can help improve EASHL by incentivize better play from players whether it be for those dropping in, encourage to join clubs, rewards for Chel and/or HUT, and whatever else the community can help brainstorm.
Based off what you said the root of the problem is matchmaking with players that don't play their position properly, hog the puck, or troll.
So let's kick off the discussion like this:
How would you incentivize good play?
If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Extending wait times? lol You can't be serious.
Let me give you an example:
NHL15 for PS3 has on average 100 online players on any given evening.
Could you imagine how long it would take to get a 6v6 game going if you had the current NHL20 matchmaker as your only means to get a game? It might take all night.
Lobby system.. you all jump in a room (central in this case), some one starts a room, and it gets filled in seconds. It's the sole reason why we can still play online 6v6 (OTP) in that game to this day.
but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
Why should you be forced to go OUTSIDE the game for this feature?
It should be IN the game that you're actually playing, isn't that much easier and more convenient?
I'm not saying get rid of the matchmaker, have that as well. Just like last gen, there was both and it worked great.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle.
Of course the lobby system in last gen was not perfect, but with a few tweaks you could drastically minimize the trolls and fix it's shortcomings.
[*] How would you incentivize good play?
[*] If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
I don't know if you can. A troll is gonna troll. A bad player is going to try his/her best but will still be bad.
I would like to see a proper club practice mode like we used to have. Also a quick on ice test mode to quickly test fresh chel builds, again, like we used to have.
We really did have a lot of cool features last gen that were taken away for seemingly no reason.
Dont worry, theyll be back soon with a different name and advertised as all new. Theyve been doing that for years.
Can you give me an example where a feature was removed and returned as brand new, never before in the game? I'm not talking about a feature like DSS which was advertised as new and improved over the previous version.
The problem is, when EA brings something back that was previous gen, they generally like to tote it as new and whatnot. Technically, it isn't a lie because it is new, but on that gen of console. But, they market it and make it sound like it was never before seen prior to that particular release.
So, technically, they are correct, but it doesn't sound right because of the way the marketing team chooses to promote it.
I like the idea of a club practice mode. This would be nice to practice powerplay setups.
Any thoughts on the vote to kick idea I posted above?
Club practice is something the dev team is well aware of and they'd really like to have it back. We'll have to see what happens.
As far as a vote kick goes, that too has been considered. The problem is, it also runs the risk of being abused and kicking people out when they don't deserve it. A better system needs to be made so the option comes up only when they're legitimately poorly playing. It could be a very complex feature to build.
Fair points, but imo there are more "fair" players out there than trolls, and by far. So far, trolls have had free reign to destroy games. I would rather put my faith in a vote kick system rather than hoping trolls will all of a sudden be a thing of the past.
In either case, something has to be done, and very soon. I know people that simply do not play as the hassle for them is no longer worth it. To be honest, I am also getting very annoyed with them.
My concern would be using it to do something like kick your human goalie when the other team has an AI goalie or possibly 3 guys running games together that want to kick everyone else so they can have AI players instead. I agree it's unlikely, but part of the design process is looking at how a new feature can be exploited and then spending a great deal of time minimizing that. There would just need to be a pretty complex system in place to limit voting so people don't get kicked unfairly and that's no easy process.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Uh no...just cut out crap like useless snoop and use those resources. I myself will never get mad or upset over you guys using resources on important quality of life fixes.
In fact, for 6v6 population has never NOT been low.
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Growing up with lobbies for games I remember they were a ton of fun. You might still see them in some games these days, but not to the extent of what you used to. They would be a great addition on top of what we already have for those that really enjoy conversing with others and looking for rivalry type of matchups, but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle. Your pitch, @HoodHoppers, is that this is required to revitalize EASHL where on paper this sounds logical because in order for us to have a GREAT EASHL experience, most of time it's a social factor that's playing a part in it. EASHL is honestly one of the coolest game modes out there when you have a group of friends online to play with. Those Friday and Saturday nights are unlike any other games I play! Implementing this with an intention of how it will be used doesn't mean it will work out the way we want it, unfortunately.
We've discussed this before in another thread and even NHLDev touched up on the lobby system about it. We know there are a lot of players that are interested in it but again, but there could be a whole lot of other ways we can help improve EASHL by incentivize better play from players whether it be for those dropping in, encourage to join clubs, rewards for Chel and/or HUT, and whatever else the community can help brainstorm.
Based off what you said the root of the problem is matchmaking with players that don't play their position properly, hog the puck, or troll.
So let's kick off the discussion like this:
How would you incentivize good play?
If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
If there are concerns of a lower population for this mode at the moment, instead of players queuing up for matchmaking you now have players out of matchmaking within a chat room/lobby not playing the game, thus potentially extending the wait times and limiting the matchmaking pool.
Extending wait times? lol You can't be serious.
Let me give you an example:
NHL15 for PS3 has on average 100 online players on any given evening.
Could you imagine how long it would take to get a 6v6 game going if you had the current NHL20 matchmaker as your only means to get a game? It might take all night.
Lobby system.. you all jump in a room (central in this case), some one starts a room, and it gets filled in seconds. It's the sole reason why we can still play online 6v6 (OTP) in that game to this day.
but don't you think you can actually accomplish this through all the available communities available outside of the game? For example, there is a Looking for Group tool built into Xbox, a specific forum here for others looking to matchmake with a club, Facebook groups, Reddit groups, Discord, and so forth.
Why should you be forced to go OUTSIDE the game for this feature?
It should be IN the game that you're actually playing, isn't that much easier and more convenient?
I'm not saying get rid of the matchmaker, have that as well. Just like last gen, there was both and it worked great.
By adding this feature to the game, you have to dedicate resources in tackling potential toxic behavior, issues that arise, and likely add features requested by the community throughout the game's life-cycle.
Of course the lobby system in last gen was not perfect, but with a few tweaks you could drastically minimize the trolls and fix it's shortcomings.
[*] How would you incentivize good play?
[*] If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
I don't know if you can. A troll is gonna troll. A bad player is going to try his/her best but will still be bad.
I would like to see a proper club practice mode like we used to have. Also a quick on ice test mode to quickly test fresh chel builds, again, like we used to have.
We really did have a lot of cool features last gen that were taken away for seemingly no reason.
Dont worry, theyll be back soon with a different name and advertised as all new. Theyve been doing that for years.
Can you give me an example where a feature was removed and returned as brand new, never before in the game? I'm not talking about a feature like DSS which was advertised as new and improved over the previous version.
Yeah outdoor rinks. You said never before has a NHL game had outdoor rinks. Go check out NHL '06.
I believe this is what you're talking about:
"For the first time in franchise history, step onto the pond and compete in the EA SPORTS Hockey League, NHL THREES, Play Now and the brand new modes NHL ONES and Pro-Am. In NHL ONES, you and two other players compete in a 1v1v1 free-for-all gauntlet. Showcase your skills and creativity with no rules, no stoppages, and no limits."
I'm not recalling outdoor rinks in NHL 06 and I can't find anything on that. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I don't remember playing on them and they certainly weren't in EASHL. So, as far as I know, this was the first time you could play on a pond in EASHL. There was the Winter Classic in previous games and that is outdoors, but it wasn't on a pond.
The stuff I hear in ONES all the time.. not to mention the chat I see in BFV, hoo boy, a similar feature in NHL would be mega super salty and toxic.
Having one vote per game would help with spam but what would happen if there was another person you wanted gone?
I remember in MGO I would purposely vote a random person right before I knew they were going to vote me gone -- they'd of course get booted and there would be a cooldown for a minute or two (just enough to end the round) so stuff like that would also need to be looked at.
I imagine one starting vote per person. So if there are five skaters and the LW is staying offsides the RW could activate a vote. The C, LD and RD would then have 1 minute to vote on the LW. So the RW can no longer start a vote but can vote if another one is started.
When I was younger, I played SOCOM 4 and would start votes to kick and then go on a team-killing spree because only one vote would be active at a time. That game was also 16v16 so it was a little different. If a troll in the system I'm arguing for starts a vote it'll only last for one minute and they can't start a new one.
So since this thread has switched to vote-kick talk, I assume we are all in agreement that we need lobbies back in some form?
Fairly certain everyone is on board for lobbies (hopefully it will be a brand new feature for the franchise in NHL 22), but they'll need extra security measures and whatnot to function properly
Replies
I believe some servers in BF3 had this if my memory serves me right. I remember in some servers the vote to kick option would repeatedly pop up throughout the match because someone thought a skilled player was cheating or trolling other players on the team. To be direct, it was annoying and ruined immersion at times.
1. How would you incentivize good play?
2. If another player didn't live up to your expectations on the ice, how would you go about enforcing proper play without deterring them from continuing to invest in that mode?
You probably cannot do either of those things. You can't control how people behave on your platform you can only limit or expand the tools you give them. Things you could try is that you directly get or lose XP from the amount of turnovers, breakout passes, poke checks, clearing the zone, keeping the puck in the zone... all the small things need to get rewarded somehow if you want people to do them more often but there will still be people who don't do those things. Or you could give the players who get good teamplay or position grades better gear rewards or something. Still kinda think this is wasted effort.
For drop-ins the best thing IMO would be the ability to join mid game and to not break up the existing group after the game. After the game is over shuffle the teams (apart from parties), 1 minute in lobby, new game. If someone leaves mid game someone can join to fill up. That would hopefully keep the games full and people would want to keep playing because 2 guys leaving wouldn't mean the game is practically over.
You could even do something clever with this and make a David Ayres gear pack or something for joining as a replacement goalie and winning.
Edit. In game text chat would also spice up the game.
you guys say the discussions here are listened to yet every few months, sometimes for years, you have posts like this. a topic that has been discussed at insane levels already, enough suggestions to fill a warehouse, etc... yet then we get posts like this that make it seem like you are suggesting this is a new concern that no one has thought about before. Maybe it has something to do with new "community managers" every 6 months that seem to rotate in here. i swear these forums are like a blackhole where concerns and good ideas just go to die.
If players are limited to starting one vote queue per game that would help prevent spamming.
Having one vote per game would help with spam but what would happen if there was another person you wanted gone?
I remember in MGO I would purposely vote a random person right before I knew they were going to vote me gone -- they'd of course get booted and there would be a cooldown for a minute or two (just enough to end the round) so stuff like that would also need to be looked at.
Before if you made a bad pass or went offside and looked like a doofus you could just speak up on the mic and say sorry about that, and everyone would hear. It's not so simple now because most people are in private party chats. So maybe a little text box in the corner would be a good idea.
A vote kick should involve both teams. If both teams vote in favor of a kick, then I think it's safe to assume it is the best decision for the game. For example vote to kick the opposing player that has already 4 goals is his game that isn't finished. His team will not vote to kick him. Maybe put a minimum threshold of 75% of players in the game need to vote for it to trigger the result.
I imagine there's a number of different options that would potentially help fight the trolls. There's just a lot of work that needs to go into that. While no doubt it would be fantastic to minimize these players, it also means devoting resources to add it. Are people going to be upset if there's less gameplay and presentation work done, but a robust, anti-griefing system gets put in? Many people would be happy about that. It's probably worth the sacrifice if players are having more fun. On the other hand, it may upset the guys that say this game is just a roster update every year.
Uh no...just cut out crap like useless snoop and use those resources. I myself will never get mad or upset over you guys using resources on important quality of life fixes.
Good points.
But for me who plays strictly EASHL, then this game isn't even a roster update for me. So yes, I absolutely want to see resources added for anti grieving especially since EA has stated how seriously they take it. I don't see why it would have to be specifically NHL resources as many other EA games would benefit from a type of anti trolling measures implemented into the game.
Let's face it. The online portion can be extremely toxic and something has to be done about it. Seems more important than chewable mouthguards or 200 parkas, but that's just me.
Exactly. I do not know how much time/resources it took to get Snoop, chewable mouthguards and 1800 CHEL items, but I would think it would cover the costs of finding ways to create a better and safer environment.
Don't forget young children play this game too and they should absolutely have a safe and friendly environment to play hockey.
I would vote to kick Snoop
Yeah outdoor rinks. You said never before has a NHL game had outdoor rinks. Go check out NHL '06.
There ya go. Thats one, and if i didnt feel like id just get a rude reply and excuses id actually care enough to go dig for other examples.
The problem is, when EA brings something back that was previous gen, they generally like to tote it as new and whatnot. Technically, it isn't a lie because it is new, but on that gen of console. But, they market it and make it sound like it was never before seen prior to that particular release.
So, technically, they are correct, but it doesn't sound right because of the way the marketing team chooses to promote it.
Why would you dismizal my shizzle in NHLizzle?
I believe this is what you're talking about:
"For the first time in franchise history, step onto the pond and compete in the EA SPORTS Hockey League, NHL THREES, Play Now and the brand new modes NHL ONES and Pro-Am. In NHL ONES, you and two other players compete in a 1v1v1 free-for-all gauntlet. Showcase your skills and creativity with no rules, no stoppages, and no limits."
I'm not recalling outdoor rinks in NHL 06 and I can't find anything on that. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I don't remember playing on them and they certainly weren't in EASHL. So, as far as I know, this was the first time you could play on a pond in EASHL. There was the Winter Classic in previous games and that is outdoors, but it wasn't on a pond.
I imagine one starting vote per person. So if there are five skaters and the LW is staying offsides the RW could activate a vote. The C, LD and RD would then have 1 minute to vote on the LW. So the RW can no longer start a vote but can vote if another one is started.
When I was younger, I played SOCOM 4 and would start votes to kick and then go on a team-killing spree because only one vote would be active at a time. That game was also 16v16 so it was a little different. If a troll in the system I'm arguing for starts a vote it'll only last for one minute and they can't start a new one.
Fairly certain everyone is on board for lobbies (hopefully it will be a brand new feature for the franchise in NHL 22), but they'll need extra security measures and whatnot to function properly