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Clearly scripted gameplay

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How can anyone deny at this point this game isnt scripted. Litterally, in a vs game, the users can only control 20% of the players, 10% per player. And accounting for the rest of the automated actions, like loose pucks, picking the puck up, shot accuracy to a limited degree, ECT. The user only accounts for about 5-10% of the games actions.

With that being said, that leaves 80-90% of the gameplay left to AI play. And as anyone who has played a game vs the computer can clearly see, especially when you stand still with the puck, the AIs actions are 100% scripted and very mechanical and predictable.

So it only stands to reason that if 80-90% of the game follows a 100% scripted pattern, the great majority of the game is infact scripted and user input has very little limited control .

Replies

  • I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.
  • I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.
  • I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    Well, I guess when you put it that way, it's definitely a way to look at it.
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.
  • jrago73
    489 posts Member
    edited March 18
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    Never mind. Keep scrolling.
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    jrago73 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    Dynamic is just a string of static scripts, hes still correct in his assertion.

    If about to get drilled then make a great pass to a teammate every time is still a script, because as the OP said, it's the same 100%.

    It's not though. He's not going to pass every time. A player with lower ratings isn't going to pass as quick, for example. Also, the hit might be more of a glancing blow and not knock him down. There's a lot of different variables. I suppose you could think of having a ton of small scripts that are chosen from when the AI performs an action, but the way he put it was saying 100% of the gameplay is scripted. That's a completely false statement as the game plays out according to the choices the human controlling the team is making. How those choices play out are also dependant on strategies, player positioning, overalls, rate at which players are moving, etc. There's a huge amount of variables the AI are considering.

    I will agree the AI can be predictable. When you play this game as much as many of us do, you notice patterns in their play. Like when they ramp up their play when they're down in the 3rd. They fight harder and take more chances then. I know that chasing the AI in my zone is almost guaranteed to cause a goal because they are very good at finding open lanes for quick passes that lead to one Ts. However, they are not following a static script where they do the same thing every time. His comment was saying that the game is not under your control and the computer decides the outcome. That is not true at all.
  • Brogers2487
    62 posts Member
    edited March 18
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    Have you tried putting your controler down in a single player game? It's Inevitable you'll get to a point where the puck carrier stands still while the rest of the players skate patterns over and over. Most of them end up twitching in place while a few of them just keep running preset, dare I say, scripted patterns. 0 variety 0 originality 0 logic, a completly scripted format of poorly programed clueless AIs that have 0 hockeysense. And yes it will play out like that 100% of the time. Because it is scripted
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited March 19
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    About 2007, right around the time the skill stick came out...
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    Have you tried putting your controler down in a single player game? It's Inevitable you'll get to a point where the puck carrier stands still while the rest of the players skate patterns over and over. Most of them end up twitching in place while a few of them just keep running preset, dare I say, scripted patterns. 0 variety 0 originality 0 logic, a completly scripted format of poorly programed clueless AIs that have 0 hockeysense. And yes it will play out like that 100% of the time. Because it is scripted

    The moment you move, they move. Also, I haven't seen this happen on Superstar. On Rookie and Pro, it happens though. On those difficulty levels, they will still move depending on the situation. I'm pretty sure they still attack when on the PP. Regardless, it's not a pre-programmed pattern.

    My point still remains. It's basically impossible to win a game when you're not playing. Unless somehow there's an own goal, games will play out drastically different if you don't play as opposed to if you do. Games are not scripted. They do not play out according to someone having drawn up a pattern they have to follow regardless of what the humans are doing.
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    Have you tried putting your controler down in a single player game? It's Inevitable you'll get to a point where the puck carrier stands still while the rest of the players skate patterns over and over. Most of them end up twitching in place while a few of them just keep running preset, dare I say, scripted patterns. 0 variety 0 originality 0 logic, a completly scripted format of poorly programed clueless AIs that have 0 hockeysense. And yes it will play out like that 100% of the time. Because it is scripted

    The moment you move, they move. Also, I haven't seen this happen on Superstar. On Rookie and Pro, it happens though. On those difficulty levels, they will still move depending on the situation. I'm pretty sure they still attack when on the PP. Regardless, it's not a pre-programmed pattern.

    My point still remains. It's basically impossible to win a game when you're not playing. Unless somehow there's an own goal, games will play out drastically different if you don't play as opposed to if you do. Games are not scripted. They do not play out according to someone having drawn up a pattern they have to follow regardless of what the humans are doing.

    No quite the opposite, they play out according to a pattern depending on what the humans are doing! Which is infinitely worse if you ask me. It leads to predictable scripted patterns like "ways to score" rather than good offensive plays being rewarded. Which is why you see games where 1 team has 10+ minutes TOA and 40+ shots, but loses 5-4 while the winning team only had 5 shots, but they knew the script and "how to score" and yes there are ways to score 100% of the time not just high percentage shots vs bad shots. There are moves that will work 100% of the time

    scripted repeatable ways to beat AI players 100% of the time, I.E. how many times in 2vs2 eashl games do players do the same exact moves over and over again to beat the AI players, how many players have >95% breakaway goals and penalty shots, the only time they miss is because their thump slipped. Just look at the bacon cclapper shots about a >95% scoring.

    This is not a case of superior gameplay or better user skill to create chances. This is a very formulaic approach to finding and beating the flaws in a predictable scripted gameplay that has 0 originality and hasn't added in any new creative dynamic moves in 10 years. These players know exactly what works 100% of the time and know exactly how the AI will react and know exactly how to beat the script they follow.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited March 20
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI isn't always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    Post edited by WainGretSki on
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    Have you tried putting your controler down in a single player game? It's Inevitable you'll get to a point where the puck carrier stands still while the rest of the players skate patterns over and over. Most of them end up twitching in place while a few of them just keep running preset, dare I say, scripted patterns. 0 variety 0 originality 0 logic, a completly scripted format of poorly programed clueless AIs that have 0 hockeysense. And yes it will play out like that 100% of the time. Because it is scripted

    The moment you move, they move. Also, I haven't seen this happen on Superstar. On Rookie and Pro, it happens though. On those difficulty levels, they will still move depending on the situation. I'm pretty sure they still attack when on the PP. Regardless, it's not a pre-programmed pattern.

    My point still remains. It's basically impossible to win a game when you're not playing. Unless somehow there's an own goal, games will play out drastically different if you don't play as opposed to if you do. Games are not scripted. They do not play out according to someone having drawn up a pattern they have to follow regardless of what the humans are doing.

    No quite the opposite, they play out according to a pattern depending on what the humans are doing! Which is infinitely worse if you ask me. It leads to predictable scripted patterns like "ways to score" rather than good offensive plays being rewarded. Which is why you see games where 1 team has 10+ minutes TOA and 40+ shots, but loses 5-4 while the winning team only had 5 shots, but they knew the script and "how to score" and yes there are ways to score 100% of the time not just high percentage shots vs bad shots. There are moves that will work 100% of the time

    scripted repeatable ways to beat AI players 100% of the time, I.E. how many times in 2vs2 eashl games do players do the same exact moves over and over again to beat the AI players, how many players have >95% breakaway goals and penalty shots, the only time they miss is because their thump slipped. Just look at the bacon cclapper shots about a >95% scoring.

    This is not a case of superior gameplay or better user skill to create chances. This is a very formulaic approach to finding and beating the flaws in a predictable scripted gameplay that has 0 originality and hasn't added in any new creative dynamic moves in 10 years. These players know exactly what works 100% of the time and know exactly how the AI will react and know exactly how to beat the script they follow.

    Isn't knowing how to score a part of hockey? Why should one team that throws shots on net be given a win when the other team takes higher quality shots? It's not like it's unheard of to have real games where the winner took less shots.

    The AI exhibit some predictable behavior. I'll agree with that, but when you get humans playing against each other, that changes it up a lot. When you watch a real hockey game, is it revolutionary and different every time? Do you see real players constantly do something you've never seen before?
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.

    It is irrelevant what I can force my opponent to do. What is relevant is almost all opponents go for the same plays all the time. Yes there are a few that change it up and try other things while others just rinse and repeat all game long. What is relevant is that this makes for a repetitive game regardless of the tactics you want to use.

    That is the point of the post. There are consistently 2-3 ways to score, yet again, you are placing it upon my shoulders to "change it". Again, it is irrelevant. EA's tuning and what is rewarded that is relevant.

    I am sorry, but all I see is yet again a dismissive response to defend with points that don't seem to fit very well in response to what I said. Just cherry picked portions, but you are entitled to your opinion.
  • jrago73
    489 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.

    It is irrelevant what I can force my opponent to do. What is relevant is almost all opponents go for the same plays all the time. Yes there are a few that change it up and try other things while others just rinse and repeat all game long. What is relevant is that this makes for a repetitive game regardless of the tactics you want to use.

    That is the point of the post. There are consistently 2-3 ways to score, yet again, you are placing it upon my shoulders to "change it". Again, it is irrelevant. EA's tuning and what is rewarded that is relevant.

    I am sorry, but all I see is yet again a dismissive response to defend with points that don't seem to fit very well in response to what I said. Just cherry picked portions, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    One of us must have special powers today because you keep typing exactly what I'm thinking.
  • EA_Aljo
    1747 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.

    It is irrelevant what I can force my opponent to do. What is relevant is almost all opponents go for the same plays all the time. Yes there are a few that change it up and try other things while others just rinse and repeat all game long. What is relevant is that this makes for a repetitive game regardless of the tactics you want to use.

    That is the point of the post. There are consistently 2-3 ways to score, yet again, you are placing it upon my shoulders to "change it". Again, it is irrelevant. EA's tuning and what is rewarded that is relevant.

    I am sorry, but all I see is yet again a dismissive response to defend with points that don't seem to fit very well in response to what I said. Just cherry picked portions, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    I don't think there's much we can do to stop people from going for the same plays. Nothing beyond adding some form of ice tilt that forces their shots to have less accuracy when they shoot from the same spots. Sure, goalies could pick up on someone doing the same thing repeatedly, but what happens when people figure out after X amount of shots, the goalie cheats to cover it and leaves the other side of the night wide open? People are going to be people. They're always going to look for a shortcut. Whether it's real hockey or virtual. They will look for the easiest ways to score.

    I'm not trying to be dismissive. I get the sentiment. I play 50+ games a week. Yes, it's repetitive, but I also love the competition. I love trying to improve my play and learn from the guys I lose to. I don't know how much more realistic I'd like this game to be. I wouldn't want it to be so difficult that it's more frustrating than fun. I would like to see people play a game that is more like real hockey. The higher up in divisions I get, the more I see that. I tend to play pretty aggressively and that sometimes leads to careless penalties and odd man rushes. I need to keep reminding myself to play more conservatively and be careful with the pokes. I'm not blaming the game for my own faults or even accusing it of forcing the other guy to win because I was on a good win streak. It's up to me to change things up and make it not so repetitive. It's also about adjusting to different levels of play because the competition is way different in D3+ than lower.

    There are more than 2 or 3 ways to score. If people are choosing to only score through those methods, that's up to them. Goal scoring is way more varied in EASHL than HUT. I see the most creative and realistic goals there. When you get 6 guys together with really good chemistry, amazing things happen. The more AI players you have, the more repetition you'll see as people will try to take advantage of them.

    Apologies if you thought I was being dismissive. That wasn't the intent. I imagine my posts are dismissed frequently purely because I work for EA and people don't want to believe us. I can understand how it feels to be dismissed for sure. Sorry for giving that impression.
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