Position Lock - Not working as intended?
April 9, 2020 11:34PM
edited April 2020
I'm a huge position lock player. My reflexes aren't what they used to be. However, the past few years and especially this year, I don't feel it's working as it was designed. With the sliders "even" the CPU seems to still get a "boost" in speed. From what we've been told in the past and present, this should not be the case. But it is.
Here is a good example. I'm position locked as RD for Alumni Blackhawks. I'm playing Team Japan (prob lowest rated in the game). This is the opening face-off. Watch how Japan gets the puck and can suddenly skate like being shot out of a cannon. The player trying to catch him is Denis Savard. Also watch how the lead drastically increases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjMtgjBV8w
How is this possible? This is what a lot of people complain about. The CPU seems to get an extra step or acceleration boost. I am close to the end off the 1st period and Japan also has almost twice the attack time that I do and same shot total? I believe this to be because they have that sudden boost in speed that allows them to get to the offensive zone faster. Plus, they are constantly intercepting passes.
Here is a demonstration of the "mirroring" issue that has plagued this series for years. How can the opposing player, especially skating from behind, know my players exact move? They are literally in sync with each other. If you added music, it would be a line dance. I move left, he moves left, I move right, he moves right. It's dead on. I've had longer sequences of this, but wanted to show this short clip so you get an idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFiAXx9av7c
You can understand the frustration when you play another NHL team and they suddenly play like superstars.
The penalties are an issue as well. Same sliders, but the CPU seems to get probably 85% of the Power Plays.
These issues appear a lot in Position Lock and I wonder if the CPU, on position lock all star, has a slight speed boost or advantage in other areas as well.
Here is a good example. I'm position locked as RD for Alumni Blackhawks. I'm playing Team Japan (prob lowest rated in the game). This is the opening face-off. Watch how Japan gets the puck and can suddenly skate like being shot out of a cannon. The player trying to catch him is Denis Savard. Also watch how the lead drastically increases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjMtgjBV8wHow is this possible? This is what a lot of people complain about. The CPU seems to get an extra step or acceleration boost. I am close to the end off the 1st period and Japan also has almost twice the attack time that I do and same shot total? I believe this to be because they have that sudden boost in speed that allows them to get to the offensive zone faster. Plus, they are constantly intercepting passes.
Here is a demonstration of the "mirroring" issue that has plagued this series for years. How can the opposing player, especially skating from behind, know my players exact move? They are literally in sync with each other. If you added music, it would be a line dance. I move left, he moves left, I move right, he moves right. It's dead on. I've had longer sequences of this, but wanted to show this short clip so you get an idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFiAXx9av7cYou can understand the frustration when you play another NHL team and they suddenly play like superstars.
The penalties are an issue as well. Same sliders, but the CPU seems to get probably 85% of the Power Plays.
These issues appear a lot in Position Lock and I wonder if the CPU, on position lock all star, has a slight speed boost or advantage in other areas as well.
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In your first video, it looks like you just needed to get over sooner to cut him off. He was also in a good position to be poked instead of hit. He was able to get the pass off with the extra time it took to hit over poking.
NHLDev will need to explain the mirroring part. I don't know the technical parts behind it, but this also happens with human-controlled players when pressuring the carrier from behind. If both players are facing each other, you don't see the mirroring. The only time I notice this is when chasing the carrier as they skate in the same direction.
I get what you're saying, however, if you look at how fast he accelerated and also, this type of thing happens too frequently. The CPU always seems to have an extra step on you. Many times the CPU is about 3 strides behind and suddenly get the puck when I was about 5 feet from it. It's that sudden boost thing. Plus, they had twice the attack time that I did. I'm lucky if my AI teammates make 2-3 successful passes in a row before it's either lost or intercepted. The CPU, however, can pinpoint pass quite a number of times without interceptions. Hence, the attack time was doubled for them.
The understanding is my team is supposed to be "CPU" controlled on position lock. Based on what I've been told in the past they would act as if this was a CPU v CPU game, but they don't. On position lock there seems to be some "hold back" to my team.
The mirroring affect happen a lot as well. That was a short clip. But I've skated from center ice to my goal weaving back and forth and the CPU seems to be able to read my every move at the exact time. It's as if they read your controller inputs. That's the only thing that I can think of.
Now, put the this game as a CPU v CPU and there is a difference in play. HUM v CPU on position lock is not the same.
The biggest difference is that there's human interaction. Most likely that's why your team isn't playing the same as an all CPU team. They are very good about making quick, precise passes to each other. Especially if you're on All-Star or Superstar. There is no unfair boost though based on all CPU vs 1 human and 4 CPUs.
Yes. I've seen that mirroring effect, but again, only when chasing the carrier. It goes both ways as you can do the same thing to an AI player. I see it in Squad Battles frequently when I'm pressuring the carrier as they retreat back to their zone.
It’s an objective fact that the CPU players can do things humans can’t do. Humans can’t pivot and accelerate in the same frame (this breaking the physics engine) they can’t touch saucer pass, they can’t affect the puck carrier’s possession via incidental stick contact when that stick is going through a body part, they can’t cancel falling animations half-way through in-order to benefit their situation, nor can they hit top speed in one step like the AI can.
As to your point about how the AI play/read plays, one human shouldn’t turn them into the most passive, stationary group of useless hockey players I’ve ever seen in my life. I watch the AI beautifully corner me into a bad spot when I’m on offensive to where my only option is to cycle the puck low. Now, the CPU defender realizes this and starts moving towards that area, but my offensive teammates all stand in their pre-designates spots and puck their noses. Why does one human mess the AI up so bad?
Secondly, if I (the user defenseman) turn an opposing puck carrier to the boards where (in theory) they’re forced to retreat and their only safe play is to exit the zone with possession or attempt to get it deep, does my AI backchecking winger follow me into the boards, taking the same exact path which completely nullifies my efforts and gives the attacking puck carrier loads of time and open passing lanes to find? I can watch my AI opponent perfectly trap me time and time again (more so due to my AI teammates being less than useless) but I can’t get even an ounce of help in return?
Playing this game for half a period offline should be all the “proof” you need that the AI are drastically worse with a human teammate than they are without, and this will be true regardless of how the human plays. The CPU simply turn into passive, useless pylons on offense, and then they run around in circles doing nothing useful, possess no anticipation whatsoever, and actually do a great job at opening up shooting and passing lanes for the other team when they have a human teammate.
I’m sorry, but there’s just no denying how much different the AI play with a human, and there’s no denying all of the “boosts” the AI get compared to a user player.
Can you get some videos of these happening?
As far as one human making a difference, I've seen EASHL games where all but one guy are playing well and it's that one player that ends up contributing the most to goals against. The human element can't be overlooked. Especially when you're saying this only occurs if you position lock. The AI players are reacting to the choices you make so there's a big influence on the rest of the team. We'd really need to see video of your issues to help understand what you're experiencing.
Mirroring effect in which the CPU is completely in sync with your player.
The incredible pinpoint passing as the AI team.
Pinpoint passing again. My AI teammates are lucky to complete 2-3 passes in a row. But if I switch teams, my previous team is now incredibly accurate.
The alarming AI logic of your AI teammates (Passing instead of shooting??)
These are small examples. Like I said in another post, I played against Team Japan and I was position locked to Hawks alumni. They had almost twice the attack time after the 1st period and the same shot totals. A team that is probably the lowest rated in the game can check my guys from behind and steal the puck, pass like superstars, and retain the puck in the offensive zone. Only reason I was able to score was probably because their goalie was so low rated. Every other stat was in their favor. When you're position locked, your team loses quite a few AI IQ points.
These are different than the examples I was requesting, but thanks again for them. The AI players pass very well. Especially on higher difficulties. As far as choosing to pass over shooting, I don't have any details on that. I definitely agree it was a bad choice though.
The things I brought-up were just from playing offline, as position-locking isn’t required to see these issues. I mean, I’ll try to grab some videos of these, but the things I mentioned are pretty common knowledge aren’t they? Just watch the CPU in the NZ when attacking your zone. Half the time the puck carrier starts and stops on a dime going 100% speed in whatever direction they choose. A human-controlled player could never do that! When the CPU gets the puck if you dump it in, there’s a reason you can’t pin them half the time and it’s because they can literally turn and accelerate in the same frame, where as humans need to use a puck pickup to actually gain speed when pulling the puck off the boards. Not to mention the fact that the AI’s pin window is exceptionally larger than a human’s is when attempting to pin the CPU which could be considered a “boost” as well.
As far as the AI decision-making go, they never anticipate passing lanes when they’re on your team, it seems as if they are always skating to where the puck will go if there wasn’t an opponent in the way. Obviously this leads to weakside defenders playing on the outside of their assignment in relation to the puck, and it gives CPU teams lots of room to force passes/walk down the middle of the slot. You also see CPU AI throw area passes for what I like to call “fade-away one-timers” as they never even remotely would’ve had time to set their feet irl nor would they have gotten off much more than a weak rolling shot, but that’s not the point I’m making. The point is, the CPU AI actively search for dead space to throw passes too, and because of your AI teammates lack of anticipation or even general acknowledgement of opponents in the zone outside of the puck carrier, this leads to many open shots and promotes “skill zone” play by the user which is pretty not fun. I wish my AI teammates on offense would actively search for open-ice like the CPU team does though. That would make this game so much more fun! A cherry on top would be them looking for space while also not having their backside facing the opposing goalie!
What I don’t know is if my sliders are playing into the sticklift issues (I have effectiveness turned up to 75), but I see at least one sticklift through my arm/leg/body a game by the AI and then being able to affect puck possession while their stick is passing through something happens on almost every 50/50 battle.
Even if these are different, all these have happened in position lock. The basic issue here, is that something is off with position lock regardless. CPU skates faster, passes better, shoots better, and my teammate AI is just horrible, etc. If you switch teams during the game, these "boosts" or whatever you want to call it, stay with the full CPU controlled team, not yours. If you put the game on pure CPU v CPU, the game plays different. So it's definitely not player ratings based, but something is wrong.
Here is what I did tonight. Played another position lock game as Montreal. Montreal could not complete more than 3 passes in the offensive zone of Ottawa. However, here is Ottawa and an example of the uncanny passing ability of the CPU. My defenders are completely lost.
My team could not get into the offensive zone too much. It was something like 2mins attack zone to my 1 min. Ottawa skated faster and had 10 shots to my 6 end of the 1st. So, I switched teams and what happens next?
Montreal can now pass like the video above. Plus, they are NOW leading by 6 shots in the middle of the 2nd. They are faster to the puck and can poke the puck from behind with no call, and check you. Montreal has almost 5 minutes of attack time to my (Ottawa) 3m30s.
You can't tell me something isn't going on when I flip teams and the "boost" or whatever, suddenly applies to the other team. The stats flipped in favor of the team that was previously position locked to. Where is this style of when I'm position locked? How can my locking onto one position drastically affect the entire team? Makes no sense.
Here is the poke check from behind that the CPU can do so well. How is this NOT a tripping call when my team gets called on the exact same thing?? Montreal literally poke checks the puck through the Ottawa players legs.
Closer angle:
The stick clearly makes contact with the legs. My players got called twice for this exact same thing, but not the CPU...?
AI teams are definitely good about whipping passes around. I see the same behavior in Superstar Squad Battles games. Eventually, they turn it over when I play a very conservative defense and focus on blocking shots/passes. It's to be expected though due to the difficulty level.
It would be good to see some video of the issues you're facing when on offense in their zone. In my experience, I've had to make really quick passes if I want to work the puck around and set up good scoring chances. I use a lot of perimeter play until something opens up, but one forced pass into traffic turns the play around so I have to be really careful.
The poke check you provided a video of isn't actually a poke. That's incidental contact. Which is why there was no penalty called.
AI teams are too good and that is my point. They are great at it, but why is my team is horrible at it if both teams are CPU controlled minus one position? I can post videos of my players missing passes, but I'm betting someone will just say "you're guy wasn't in the lane", etc. It's always an excuse to justify the differences that favor the AI as much as we keep pointing them out. It's frustrating and it feels like an uphill battle.
For the poke, that was an example of what the CPU can do and my team can't. That, to me, was a poke. His stick intentionally moved in the direction of the puck and knocked the puck away from my player...through his legs. The CPU can constantly do this type of poke checking with your back towards them, and be very successful.
Your players can use incidental contact to knock the puck away as well. That's not exclusive to your opponents. In your video, no poke check was initiated so there was no trip.
If you can post some videos, we'll take a look for any issues. Otherwise, we're not aware of anything that would cause your opponents to have an unfair advantage.
Chicago v Chicago. I was the home team. Again, this stays consistent with what I've been seeing and saying. End of the first period:
They have 11 shots against my 5
TOA is 3:03 vs my 2:02
Passing % is 82.3 vs my 70.8. This alone should tell you something is up. Why can't my team be this accurate?
They had a power play I had none.
First five shots my AT teammates took, missed the net every time. Literally 3 feet out and missed the net. Couldn't hit the side of a barn. Obviously from the stats you can see they had no problem hitting the net.
Strategies? My HUM strat slider is at 6. Their strat slider is 0. AI learning 0. CPU Diff is 0. Same teams, yet the full CPU controlled team is faster and more accurate in all areas.
Thanks for the feedback. At this time we're not aware of any issues that would cause this to happen. If I find out any other details, I'll let you know.
In the first video , looks like the Savard slows down to cover the point once he enters the zone