EA Forums - Banner

Gameplay

Replies

  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    Plus EA as a whole would need to adapt a more open policy with communication - which will never happen.

    Speaking of communication, isn't there supposed to be some EA event tomorrow, where they will present info on SOME games? I didn't see NHL mentioned anywhere though. But maybe they will mention it?
  • Sega82mega
    3067 posts Member
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Speaking of communication, isn't there supposed to be some EA event tomorrow, where they will present info on SOME games? I didn't see NHL mentioned anywhere though. But maybe they will mention it?

    Aaa that would really make my no-life to a life, but im not gonna count on it to much...
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Plus EA as a whole would need to adapt a more open policy with communication - which will never happen.

    Speaking of communication, isn't there supposed to be some EA event tomorrow, where they will present info on SOME games? I didn't see NHL mentioned anywhere though. But maybe they will mention it?

    If you go by what's happened before, then no... Don't expect EA will talk about NHL at all. If any info comes out, it'll be around the time that they usually release the NHL Beta around Late July or Early August. And even then that info will be limited to "Hey, we have a BETA coming out, go try it out!"

    LOL!
  • EA_Aljo
    2637 posts EA Community Manager
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.
  • Sega82mega
    3067 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Well said, you have been on both side, I bealive that’s what you need to really know. RIght person in the right place.

    Overall I think both side is doing a great job together.
  • Davanial
    267 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    Probably due to reality or something eh
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    I get that a lot of the discussion here revolves around topics like the game being rigged or the game just sucking without further explanation and I also get that it can be tiresome to constantly reply to those topics. On the other hand there’s a lot of quality discussion about the long term goals of the franchise or some really good analysis about mechanics, balance and meta. The thing is that on those later topics we’re usually left in the dark and get the generic ”your feedback has been given to the dev team” response. That makes me think that there’s a company policy to not reveal any information about the long term goals of the franchise or even about what the dev team is currently working on.

    Compare that to a lot of other game developers who frequently release dev diaries and other behind the scenes content to let the fans know what direction their games are headed. I would really like to see that type of content from the NHL team as well so the community could discuss those goals and how they should be executed.

  • bryta47
    373 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    And why is that do you think?
  • smyth9779
    201 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    I would have to say most of the complaints are absolutely absurd. I can understand the amount of frustration you guys must feel reading some of this stuff. Myself included I've complained many times that the game is rigged. Hahaha. But I know it's not, and I know everything cant be perfect with all the stuff that goes on creating the game and online servers and this guys internet is weak, that guys internet is too strong. Blah blah blah.
    Truth is, everyone is spoiled rotten, and wants everything to be perfect and wont accept anything less. It's what our society has become. Spoiled. I might be criticized for saying that but I believe it's the truth., we are all 4 year olds crying because we couldnt get a candy bar at the store.
    And if you really want to get deep, being able to play a video game is a privelage most take for granted. Think about the less fortunate who cant afford a playstation or x box or food...and we complain because we cant upgrade a team to 99 overall....
    I'm done. Thanks
  • MikeG73179
    279 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Tbh @smyth9779 I think critizising a video game has nothing to do with being spoiled or privilaged. When you sell a game with a 70€ price tag annually the expectation from the customer is and should be to get a high quality video game. If I spend 70€ on a video game which isn’t a small amount for my poor student **** I’ll expect to get my moneys worth of content. If I feel like the game isn’t worth the price tag then comparisons will be made to other things I could’ve spent 70€ on.

    Being spoiled would mean to expect more than what you paid for or something that’s not realistic.

  • EA_Aljo
    2637 posts EA Community Manager
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    I get that a lot of the discussion here revolves around topics like the game being rigged or the game just sucking without further explanation and I also get that it can be tiresome to constantly reply to those topics. On the other hand there’s a lot of quality discussion about the long term goals of the franchise or some really good analysis about mechanics, balance and meta. The thing is that on those later topics we’re usually left in the dark and get the generic ”your feedback has been given to the dev team” response. That makes me think that there’s a company policy to not reveal any information about the long term goals of the franchise or even about what the dev team is currently working on.

    Compare that to a lot of other game developers who frequently release dev diaries and other behind the scenes content to let the fans know what direction their games are headed. I would really like to see that type of content from the NHL team as well so the community could discuss those goals and how they should be executed.

    Those quality discussions don't go unnoticed, but the dev team also isn't going to comment on them all. We really don't reveal anything about what's coming because it's entirely possible that could change. Even if we say to take this all with a grain of salt because it may or may not happen, it doesn't look good when we don't live up to the expectations the community has because we say we're thinking of adding X feature or making X change. We want to wait until we know for sure these features or changes are coming before announcing them. With releases happening annually, there isn't going to be much discussion on the future until we get closer to release.

    I'd love to see your dev diaries idea happen. That would be awesome. For now, I think the best you can do is keep an eye out for posts from Ben. He sometimes talks about ideas and things he'd like to see happen in the future.
  • @Juppo1996 well, I agree with you that it costs a lot of money and it's a big investment. Totally agree. When u spend that kind of money on a game you should have high expectations. But in the end it's an opinion. Plenty of people think the game is fantastic. Plenty of people think its garbage. All I'm saying is I agree with @EA_Aljo. You cant satisfy everyone, and you are spoiled because the games are so good now that you expect nothing but the best for your money. Which is fine. That's your opinion and you have that right. Yes, I went a little too deep with the people cant afford the game and all that, I knew I did. I was just trying to get my point across that things could be worse. But that being said, I too would love a more realistic game play in HUT. I'm spoiled too.
  • EA_Aljo
    2637 posts EA Community Manager
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Tbh @smyth9779 I think critizising a video game has nothing to do with being spoiled or privilaged. When you sell a game with a 70€ price tag annually the expectation from the customer is and should be to get a high quality video game. If I spend 70€ on a video game which isn’t a small amount for my poor student ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I’ll expect to get my moneys worth of content. If I feel like the game isn’t worth the price tag then comparisons will be made to other things I could’ve spent 70€ on.

    Being spoiled would mean to expect more than what you paid for or something that’s not realistic.

    A lot of people have a different idea of what value means to them. One thing for me that always made the game worth the cost was that I played it so much. It became extremely cheap entertainment over the course of a year. However, if I didn't like the game and didn't play it because of that, it wouldn't hold my perception of value. Some feel the game is high quality, some feel it isn't. Of course, we want as many people as possible to see the value, but it can come down to personal preference in the end. Regardless, we're always trying to make as many people happy as we can.
  • Sega82mega
    3067 posts Member
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    I would have to say most of the complaints are absolutely absurd. I can understand the amount of frustration you guys must feel reading some of this stuff. Myself included I've complained many times that the game is rigged. Hahaha. But I know it's not, and I know everything cant be perfect with all the stuff that goes on creating the game and online servers and this guys internet is weak, that guys internet is too strong. Blah blah blah.
    Truth is, everyone is spoiled rotten, and wants everything to be perfect and wont accept anything less. It's what our society has become. Spoiled. I might be criticized for saying that but I believe it's the truth., we are all 4 year olds crying because we couldnt get a candy bar at the store.
    And if you really want to get deep, being able to play a video game is a privelage most take for granted. Think about the less fortunate who cant afford a playstation or x box or food...and we complain because we cant upgrade a team to 99 overall....
    I'm done. Thanks

    Wow, you really got me there, great insight. More of that!
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    @smyth9779 There are many things in life that are a "privilege". But when you work hard to attain them, you expect to at least get your money's worth, which hasn't been the case with this series for far too long. Maybe to somebody with six figures in their bank account, spending a paltry 60$ on a piece of software they can somewhat enjoy, it may mean nothing.

    But to many of us who work hard all year round and have a limited income to spend on entertainment, spending even 40$ on said software only to be grossly disappointed is a hard loss to justify. Especially when you consider that that money could've been spent on something else that would've brought satisfaction, even for just a moment, rather than the perpetual grief we keep getting put through with the NHL series.

    Every year we hope for better. We're TOLD it's going to be better. And it ends in mostly dissatisfaction.

    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    If people are still feeling that EA isn't being honest with them, why do you think that is? It's easy to point the finger and say "well you guys just don't know what's going on inside the company". But EA has had a long history of deceiving and/or misguiding its fans. Not just the NHL fans, but nearly every EA game.

    It's hard for people to put their trust in a company like that. Look what happened to Microsoft when they launched the Xbox One. They completely messed up. And even though they turned it around under "Uncle" Phil Spencer, people still don't quite trust them fully.

    Like I mentioned about Codemasters, they were able to turn things around when they accepted that they were at fault, that they weren't communicating the correct stuff to their fans. That the game was going in THEIR direction and not the one the FANS wanted. They found someone to bridge the middle ground between their dev team and the fans. And then they took it from there to make the game better. Which it did.

    And their fans are mostly happy now. They trust the product Codemasters puts out every year and GLADLY pay them money.

    I would LOVE to be able to do that with an EA product, especially NHL. All us fans want is to help EA make the best NHL game possible. But to us, it seems like EA doesn't want our input. It may not BE that way, but their actions make us feel that way.

    I can tell you that it's not because we're trying to be mean and unjust towards EA. We certainly don't mean to bag on Ben and his team, which try to do the best they can every year. We want to help, but we feel powerless to do so.

    That's what's frustrating us.
  • johnny2fingaz
    263 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    When I think about this game - it’s easier to score 10 goals than it is to get a shut out.

    Who agrees/disagrees?

    Nerf acceleration and buff poke check (as in making it cause less tripping calls, aka if you’re right in front of him it’s 98% never a penalty and right besides him neck and neck ) and I think we’d have a far more balanced game.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    @smyth9779 There are many things in life that are a "privilege". But when you work hard to attain them, you expect to at least get your money's worth, which hasn't been the case with this series for far too long. Maybe to somebody with six figures in their bank account, spending a paltry 60$ on a piece of software they can somewhat enjoy, it may mean nothing.

    But to many of us who work hard all year round and have a limited income to spend on entertainment, spending even 40$ on said software only to be grossly disappointed is a hard loss to justify. Especially when you consider that that money could've been spent on something else that would've brought satisfaction, even for just a moment, rather than the perpetual grief we keep getting put through with the NHL series.

    Every year we hope for better. We're TOLD it's going to be better. And it ends in mostly dissatisfaction.

    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    If people are still feeling that EA isn't being honest with them, why do you think that is? It's easy to point the finger and say "well you guys just don't know what's going on inside the company". But EA has had a long history of deceiving and/or misguiding its fans. Not just the NHL fans, but nearly every EA game.

    It's hard for people to put their trust in a company like that. Look what happened to Microsoft when they launched the Xbox One. They completely messed up. And even though they turned it around under "Uncle" Phil Spencer, people still don't quite trust them fully.

    Like I mentioned about Codemasters, they were able to turn things around when they accepted that they were at fault, that they weren't communicating the correct stuff to their fans. That the game was going in THEIR direction and not the one the FANS wanted. They found someone to bridge the middle ground between their dev team and the fans. And then they took it from there to make the game better. Which it did.

    And their fans are mostly happy now. They trust the product Codemasters puts out every year and GLADLY pay them money.

    I would LOVE to be able to do that with an EA product, especially NHL. All us fans want is to help EA make the best NHL game possible. But to us, it seems like EA doesn't want our input. It may not BE that way, but their actions make us feel that way.

    I can tell you that it's not because we're trying to be mean and unjust towards EA. We certainly don't mean to bag on Ben and his team, which try to do the best they can every year. We want to help, but we feel powerless to do so.

    That's what's frustrating us.

    The NHL 15 EASHL-omission and the NHL 19 legends debacle is still very freshly on the minds of this community. There’s a reason the forums and the online game population this entire generation has been poor. 16-18 when playing LGPS, we’d play 6-8 games a night and maybe play 2-3 unique teams in that span (granted our CR’s were 1000+) showing that even the top teams weren’t playing this game a ton. The community just isn’t the same as it used to be, that’s for sure.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited June 2020

    The NHL 15 EASHL-omission and the NHL 19 legends debacle is still very freshly on the minds of this community. There’s a reason the forums and the online game population this entire generation has been poor. 16-18 when playing LGPS, we’d play 6-8 games a night and maybe play 2-3 unique teams in that span (granted our CR’s were 1000+) showing that even the top teams weren’t playing this game a ton. The community just isn’t the same as it used to be, that’s for sure.

    It's not just that the community isn't the same. It's that nearly every game under EA's hat has had to deal with problems in recent memory.

    FIFA, Madden, NHL, Anthem, Star Wars Battlefront, Battlefield, Mass Effect... The list goes on and on. And every time the community has pointed it out to them, the response from EA is that it's somehow the FANS that are wrong. Until it gets so bad that they HAVE to turn it around or consider losing their fanbase and so their revenue stream (Anthem and Battlefront 2 are the BIGGEST culprits of this).

    The best recent example I can think of that summarises people's feelings towards EA in general is when Apex Legends came out and people immediately said "oh, another EA game that's destined to be a cash cow with little content or support and a pay2win system". Then Respawn Entertainment put out a message immediately stating that EA had NOTHING to do with their game, just to reassure people. And even though Apex is nowhere near as popular as other BR games, it's still has a decent number of players enjoying it.

    It's also funny (funny Uh-oh, not funny HA-HA) how a F2P game, gets more love and support than a long time standing series like NHL. I mean, how can you expect people to NOT be angry at that??

  • EA_Aljo
    2637 posts EA Community Manager
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    @smyth9779 There are many things in life that are a "privilege". But when you work hard to attain them, you expect to at least get your money's worth, which hasn't been the case with this series for far too long. Maybe to somebody with six figures in their bank account, spending a paltry 60$ on a piece of software they can somewhat enjoy, it may mean nothing.

    But to many of us who work hard all year round and have a limited income to spend on entertainment, spending even 40$ on said software only to be grossly disappointed is a hard loss to justify. Especially when you consider that that money could've been spent on something else that would've brought satisfaction, even for just a moment, rather than the perpetual grief we keep getting put through with the NHL series.

    Every year we hope for better. We're TOLD it's going to be better. And it ends in mostly dissatisfaction.

    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.

    We accept criticism. Especially when it's constructive. A lot of it is, some of it isn't. There's also a lot of pushback on what we say because some are convinced we're not being honest here. Building a better relationship with the community needs to go both ways. There's a lot of misinformation and assumptions here. Then, if we try to defend those, it's often met with saying we're lying, doing what the suits say, only blaming the players, etc. We want a good, healthy, strong community here, but that's tough to foster with much of the discussion that occurs. I have been involved in this community for a very long time. I've been on both sides of it. It was a very interesting transition going from a fan with assumptions of how the game is made and who makes it to the reality of what actually goes on. The people that make this game are very passionate, dedicated hockey fans that want to faithfully recreate the sport as best they can while working with the community, but rarely does anyone believe that's the case.

    If people are still feeling that EA isn't being honest with them, why do you think that is? It's easy to point the finger and say "well you guys just don't know what's going on inside the company". But EA has had a long history of deceiving and/or misguiding its fans. Not just the NHL fans, but nearly every EA game.

    It's hard for people to put their trust in a company like that. Look what happened to Microsoft when they launched the Xbox One. They completely messed up. And even though they turned it around under "Uncle" Phil Spencer, people still don't quite trust them fully.

    Like I mentioned about Codemasters, they were able to turn things around when they accepted that they were at fault, that they weren't communicating the correct stuff to their fans. That the game was going in THEIR direction and not the one the FANS wanted. They found someone to bridge the middle ground between their dev team and the fans. And then they took it from there to make the game better. Which it did.

    And their fans are mostly happy now. They trust the product Codemasters puts out every year and GLADLY pay them money.

    I would LOVE to be able to do that with an EA product, especially NHL. All us fans want is to help EA make the best NHL game possible. But to us, it seems like EA doesn't want our input. It may not BE that way, but their actions make us feel that way.

    I can tell you that it's not because we're trying to be mean and unjust towards EA. We certainly don't mean to bag on Ben and his team, which try to do the best they can every year. We want to help, but we feel powerless to do so.

    That's what's frustrating us.

    I'm not saying EA has been a perfect company over the years. I can say, at least on the NHL side, I don't recall when we've misled people. NHL 15 aside, when we had to tell everyone several weeks before release that some big features wouldn't make it into the game, we've been as open as we can be and haven't been misleading. I'm not going to recall every detail over the last several years though so if I'm wrong, feel free to point it out.

    We have listened and acted on much of the feedback that's been provided. Not everything of course, but it should be apparent that we're not just telling you guys to provide feedback just to make it feel like you're being heard. If we didn't want your input, you wouldn't see us here going back and forth. You wouldn't see Ben spending as much time as he does here and with the community in general.

    I feel like, in order for you guys to feel like you've been heard, we need almost monthly patches adding everything you're asking for. That's really not going to happen due to multiple reasons. There are things people request that may or may not show up, but when they do, it's almost always not going to be until the next game releases. At that point, we start getting feedback on the new game and your feedback is heavily considered when putting updates together over the first few months after release.
  • I'm not here to pick fights with everyone. Im here to give my opinion and feedback. The game has come a long way,, of course it has its flaws, I'm the first guy to point them out. I mean if the game is that bad, maybe we shouldn't buy it. Maybe we should wait for it to get better...honestly if the game didnt come out around by birthday, I probably wouldn't buy it right away either. But I buy it for myself as a birthday present every year because quite honestly I deserve it. I work hard just like everyone else. I'm not nearly as dialed into the game as a lot of people on here are, I'm a casual player and since the hockey season was cancelled I've been playing a little more. I just love hockey. I get that it's not easy to spend that kind of money, I cringe just thinking about it every year . Lol. I just think we are all a little to harsh on these guys. Again....just my opinion. Everyone is free to do as they wish. That's all.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!