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This game is TRASH!!! Really?!?

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  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    Yes please do have faith smyth, I have seen you do some awsome hockey plays in this years game, and it starts to be much more balanced then any other year. Some minor tweaks with the sliders, a new PS5, and I think we hockey freaks have some good gaming a head of us.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    Totally agree with you guys @HoodHoppers @untouchable_BF1 @Sega82mega time for this game to get some kind of realistic quality online. I mean how many people buy the game for online play purposes? Sure, a lot of people like the offline game modes but it's a lot more fun playing against a human, 1v1 or 2v2 its just a lot more enjoyable. I havent dabbled with offline play a lot. So I'm not as educated as you guys are. But man what I would give for a quality online hockey game that represents the game of Hockey. I have faith it will come..🤔

    Sounds like it will. I know Ben wants to get the slider sharing and roster sharing idea going so hopefully if there's enough like-minded people like him working on it (and thank God Ben is one of the leaders at the helm) then I think eventually we will see it.

    If it weren't for Ben, I probably would never be on these forums and any optimism I have for the game would be out to the wayside.

    Good post, I aggre. Ben knows hockey, I can tell. But first, theres just one million stuff that has to combine for it to work online. The list keeps getting smaller, it just takes time, but this close to hockey that I am in some games this year, have I never been before.

    Sliders and the worlds best servers. It shouldnt take more. Add some better grafik and a next gen console. And Im sold! :)
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    After all, hockey is hockey, sometimes it feel like people expects it to be something else. When I hear complain about nothing changed. The ice is still white and the players look pretty much the same. But I cant honestly dont get it when people hate on nhl20. Have does people even tryed to play hockey, I get confused, maybe all of thoose years with a gameplay that were abit off has made people to forget how it suppose to work. In some of my games it can be a moment were booth me and my opponent is startin to get in the 'flow' (dont know if you know what I mean) But theres a particularly feeling, were it starts to feel like real hockey, even then, I experiencing that most people rather try to break that Flow and go back to a gameplay that can't be fun for anyone. Its about to find the balance, go with the flow, its like a dance, smooth sally. Dont go all nuts and try that turbo speed no one can handle, relax in your shoulders and mind and try to find your swag on the ice.

    Okey I dont know what happen here, just wanted it to get of my chest.. :)

    Well I keep hating on the game because I can’t enjoy it when I’m constantly paying attention on all the glaring flaws. I have to consciously try to enjoy the game and ignore all the flaws if I want to play it. That sounds ridiculous and stupid but honestly if this was any other game than NHL I would’ve quit playing a long time ago.

    When I boot up the game it goes like this most of the time. I’m usually feeling good to play some NHL and I start up HUT rivals. Within the first period I’m already getting angry at the AI because I keep having ’creative differences’ with it and then I start to get frustrated and bored because I keep scoring the same goals in every game over and over and can’t get any kicks out of it (seriously, I score the backhand, forehand, top cheese goal in basically every game. Sometimes multiple times). I feel like I’m losing brain cells everytime I have to wait and spin on the neutral zone because the AI is stuck offside. And mind you I might be winning the game 4-0 but I still feel like quitting the game.

    Now when I’m bored and frustrated, I’m starting lose focus and start playing badly. Then my opponent gets lucky and gets a couple of deflections from his AI 99 Gretzky. After that I quit the game even though I’m still leading and declare that the game sucks and come over to check this forum to get some peer support.

    The game isn’t all bad and it has some good things going for it. But if the good things are buried under a pile of broken mechanics, stupid AI behavior and balance issues that you get rewarded for abusing in competitive gameplay it doesn’t add up to a good gaming experience.

    This is exactly why I gave up on playing sports games online. There’s just such a glaring difference between the prominent meta that leads to winning, and the real life strategies that lead to winning. And especially in this game, I just don’t find the game to be balanced from an offensive and defensive perspective, so it makes it even easier to stay away from the online portion of this game. Every time I try to play an online game just to ensure my opinions aren’t formed from distant experiences, I am constantly reminded why online in this game isn’t fun. Same meta goals, same twirl and spin strategy, same goalies who are inexplicably great at making some saves but can’t save a straight-on wrist shot from outside the tops of the circles. Offline, I’ve managed to build a great set with custom goalies where I see a ton of goal variation. Real hockey is rewarded, and execution needs to play perfect to score. This is a severely far cry from the online experience imo, and it’s really telling that I can’t even have fun winning a blowout, because of the way you have to win online.

    I absolutely love hockey, and I love the strategies, the skill, the speed, the decision making, and the incredible vision that goes into winning real hockey games. Playing online, “vision” = what angle do I need to hold RS at or hold LT at to cancel a check in-order to give me a clear path to the net. Most goals, even at the most competitive of levels, require 1-3 passes to score. Vision is simply not rewarded nor needed in this game. Anyone that’s ever played hockey knows that vision is equally if not more important than your skill. If you can’t see a play forming 1-3 steps ahead, then you individual skill is rather useless on the real rink. In this game, twirling in the corner will eventually result in the backside AI defensemen just randomly skating into the corner or away from their mark. There’s no vision involved in opening that lane. It’s not a nice cycle or passing sequence, is literally spinning in the corner! Why does that open up a stationary player in the slot lol!?

    And all these LG guys who have never played hockey keep asking for a meta that further rewards quick “twitch skill” over methodical passing and vision. Cranking up acceleration so that you can quickly attack any pass made ever does not promote more passing, especially when puck control is so high. Having pass interceptions cranked up in conjunction with ridiculous acceleration does not promote more passing. It promotes people playing zone and WANTING you to pass because it’s easier to knock someone in the middle of a pickup animation off the puck than it is to knock off a puck carrier slowly gliding who is feathering both LT And RS. This leads to 0-5 traps, 5-man collapses in the zone, and the offense running “plays” like its basketball to take advantage of problem areas for interceptions (below the goaline by the crease) to force passes through the human swarm.

    To add to your last paragraph, that’s the WORST part of it! It’s incredibly frustrating to see the potential with all the tools at our disposal because with sliders, this game can be quite enjoyable offline for moments. If the AI didn’t do such a good job at killing my immersion every other puck possession or every PowerPlay, then I’d literally binge this game like no other (I still practically do lol)! We’re probably a super AI-focused year away from a truly great experience (offline at least) and we’re a slider vault/custom slider lobbies away from making online actually playable for people that want to play hockey, not figure skate and glitch. We’re so close to a great experience with how great of a foundation there is here in-terms of gameplay mechanics!! It’s the only reason I still post here! The work speaks for itself. The foundation is objectively great. The overall polish and putting everything together still needs fixing. If they were so far off, I woundnt bother posting/playing.

    Yes im really thankful that you post here on this forum. You are very good at pointing out problems in a way everyone can understand.

    And I would love if they could bring that special feeling when you play hockey, into the game, the vision. It gives deep to the game. Were you must think before you move.

    Thanks man. Yeah, I mean thinking before you move does happen in hockey lol. Lowering acceleration would do wonders for this as it would actually allow users to not only plan their attack, but be rewarded for their well-planned and well-executed attacked. It’s just way too easy to recover from poor choices when everyone on the rink can cover for the burned player. Makes collapsing way too viable and it doesn’t punish people enough for constantly stopping, starting, committing, recommitting, etc.

    Yes I would even compare hockey with a game of chess. How you put the puck, into the board (the angel), can open up 4-5 diffrent scenario. As it is now, 100% all power, straight a head. That is boring, and hockey should be so much more then just that.
  • Fix L2 abuse, 1 hand tuck abuse, and make CPU players not have increased abilities to make up for poor programming. I personally feel this would increase sales. How many club 6's have 2 players?? Make CPU players worse sand they either find other real players in the community ORRR get their real life friends to purchase the game. I can't convince my friends to get it BECAUSE the CPU's.. they're just unbelievable sometimes and you'll lose to REALLY bad players because the CPU will carry them..
  • 32Doak
    103 posts Member
    Heck, if a slider is good enough that everybody wants to play it because it's just like real hockey, then you can have that preset to the default slider. Or maybe every time you finish a game, you give a rating from 1-10 on how good the slider was, the highest rated slider stays the default one and the slider remains the default one for the entire month.

    This wouldn't work because there are too many sliders that comprise the gameplay as a whole and each individual slider in itself is a divisive topic amongst the community.

    Switching from one set of sliders to another on a month-to-month basis would cause an uproar worse than what we have with the current version of the game. Any drastic sudden swing from one extreme to the other in any element in the gameplay would give the community whiplash and alienate the casuals AND the die-hards, the "simmers" AND the "arcade" crowd, the Hatfields AND the McCoys...
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    32Doak wrote: »
    Heck, if a slider is good enough that everybody wants to play it because it's just like real hockey, then you can have that preset to the default slider. Or maybe every time you finish a game, you give a rating from 1-10 on how good the slider was, the highest rated slider stays the default one and the slider remains the default one for the entire month.

    This wouldn't work because there are too many sliders that comprise the gameplay as a whole and each individual slider in itself is a divisive topic amongst the community.

    Switching from one set of sliders to another on a month-to-month basis would cause an uproar worse than what we have with the current version of the game. Any drastic sudden swing from one extreme to the other in any element in the gameplay would give the community whiplash and alienate the casuals AND the die-hards, the "simmers" AND the "arcade" crowd, the Hatfields AND the McCoys...

    I think its worth it, Yes it would probebly, for that time, start a uproar along the big mass. Because the game 'behaving strangely' lately, but in a long run, if they could experiment more, we will get a better hockey game, faster anyway. And isnt that what we all want? Play hockey as real as it get..
  • 32Doak
    103 posts Member
    I bought the game 10 weeks ago and have strictly played Online Versus. In about 1300 games, I'd estimate that roughly 80% of them were against opponents with a 500-700 competitive rating.

    A) Only ONCE have I faced another player that I considered to have "abused" L2, and I couldn't touch the guy because he was so good at it. And I wasn't even mad because it was impressive. But if I'd seen it more frequently I'd be very frustrated. I'm not saying L2 abuse doesn't happen. I read a lot about it on here and Reddit and I just assume it's more prevalent in other game modes or maybe among Versus players with higher competitive ratings.

    B) The one-handed tuck though... UGH! I come across that abomination nearly every other game. Yes I take fault for leaving a bit too much space sometimes by going in for the hit too often, but that move is too easy to execute for how efficient it is.

    C) Ragging the puck is also too easy, too effective, and too rampant. It has no place in the game. Figger it out.

  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    The main issue with EA sports NHL is that they dont fix any of the problems people have been complaining about. Boot up NHL 17 and aside from Roster differences and UI you are basically playing the same game. NHL is probably their lowest selling game, and everything EA does is money first, so this is what frustrates people.

    I mean... they havent even made line changes smooth. Every time a character runs into the bench and bounces off and then runs into the bench and bounces off before eventually getting off the ice, I lose a little sanity.

    EA knows you have no other choices if you want a hockey game. And its evident in the minimal effort they put into it. Look at be a pro... it couldn't be more bare bones. Play game, ask for a trade is basically the whole mode.

    @EA_Aljo what are these big changes? Not even hating... I'm just curious what they are, because aside from card packs and 3 on 3 it sure doesn't feel like much of anything has changed in the last 5 years.

    I'll give you guys Dynasty mode... that has actually improved. But gameplay wise... I can't think of anything substantial

    There have been major changes to skating. TPS was replaced by RPM. That started with 19. Shooting had some very big improvements with 20 along with pickups. You're right that Be A Pro hasn't had much attention, but gameplay-wise, to say the game hasn't improved in the last 5 years is something we'll have to agree to disagree on as there have been numerous changes.

    There have been numerous changes, but I wish I was they were changing the other way lol I'd much rather be playing NHL17 than 20.
  • Also I've said this before. If fatigue played a factor in HUT it would slow down the ragging. But when u have 99 everything, it's kinda hard to get tired. That HAS to be addressed next year
  • HoodHoppers
    1486 posts Member
    32Doak wrote: »
    Heck, if a slider is good enough that everybody wants to play it because it's just like real hockey, then you can have that preset to the default slider. Or maybe every time you finish a game, you give a rating from 1-10 on how good the slider was, the highest rated slider stays the default one and the slider remains the default one for the entire month.

    This wouldn't work because there are too many sliders that comprise the gameplay as a whole and each individual slider in itself is a divisive topic amongst the community.

    Switching from one set of sliders to another on a month-to-month basis would cause an uproar worse than what we have with the current version of the game. Any drastic sudden swing from one extreme to the other in any element in the gameplay would give the community whiplash and alienate the casuals AND the die-hards, the "simmers" AND the "arcade" crowd, the Hatfields AND the McCoys...

    Catering to the casuals is what got us into this mess. The idea is to bring back the hardcores that have dwindled off. And that will also be up to the top tuning guys. It's more probably that one guy is gonna be the sole tuner set that just gets minor tweaks over the course of 12 months. It wouldn't be 12 different tuner sets, it'll likely be 2 or 3 with slight updates for patches and whatnot. When people find what works they tend to stick to it, especially when it comes to games. And also bear in mind that most of us sim guys have very similar sliders. They may look drastically different but they typically play pretty similar. Having done enough tuning myself I know when somebody has a realistic tuner or an outlandish one the moment I see it.
  • HoodHoppers
    1486 posts Member
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    Also I've said this before. If fatigue played a factor in HUT it would slow down the ragging. But when u have 99 everything, it's kinda hard to get tired. That HAS to be addressed next year

    Even in VS fatigue doesn't do anything. I consistently face guys that spam it the entire game and if you fight them at the end of the game, they somehow have the same amount of stamina on their bars as you do. It's mind boggling. Sprint should be used for exactly that, a sprint. Has anybody done a sprint before? Yeah you don't exactly move at 100% 3 seconds later.
  • bryta47
    373 posts Member
    The biggest problem with EA NHL online is that it's horrible boring and doesn't feel like hockey at all. It plays as a mix of arcade pinball and virtual bumper cars. Zero hockey immersion to be found.

    Offline is better, but the sliders are a mess, AI programming is really bad and gameplay is inconsistent to say the least.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    Also I've said this before. If fatigue played a factor in HUT it would slow down the ragging. But when u have 99 everything, it's kinda hard to get tired. That HAS to be addressed next year

    Even in VS fatigue doesn't do anything. I consistently face guys that spam it the entire game and if you fight them at the end of the game, they somehow have the same amount of stamina on their bars as you do. It's mind boggling. Sprint should be used for exactly that, a sprint. Has anybody done a sprint before? Yeah you don't exactly move at 100% 3 seconds later.

    True! For some reason it has always work really good to sprint through the entire game. Even in the fights, if I hit him faster I will win. I miss a feeling of controll.
    But now I notice this style of gaming isnt really the most effective, it still a treath, but not nearby as deadly as it use to. And when people has "run out of there 'only' options (full speed) and they have to take controll over the player and play man vs man, without any direct help from the AI, people freaks out, a scary big amount dosent even know how to set up a standard defense. If the tactic 'I sprint 100% straight against the puck/Carrier dosent work. And they actually have to play hockey, they dont know what to do. Thats a problem.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited May 2020
    I use the hustle button in small doses. More like a 'click' then just with all strenght I got, push it forward. When im charge up speed its importen to put small doses of 'click' on the hustle button in the right places to give the player more gravity/friction in the skating.
  • 32Doak
    103 posts Member
    32Doak wrote: »
    Heck, if a slider is good enough that everybody wants to play it because it's just like real hockey, then you can have that preset to the default slider. Or maybe every time you finish a game, you give a rating from 1-10 on how good the slider was, the highest rated slider stays the default one and the slider remains the default one for the entire month.

    This wouldn't work because there are too many sliders that comprise the gameplay as a whole and each individual slider in itself is a divisive topic amongst the community.

    Switching from one set of sliders to another on a month-to-month basis would cause an uproar worse than what we have with the current version of the game. Any drastic sudden swing from one extreme to the other in any element in the gameplay would give the community whiplash and alienate the casuals AND the die-hards, the "simmers" AND the "arcade" crowd, the Hatfields AND the McCoys...

    Catering to the casuals is what got us into this mess. The idea is to bring back the hardcores that have dwindled off.

    I'd very much prefer for the game to be catered to the hardcores but that's not realistic from EA's perspective if they're looking to grow the game. And really we desperately need new blood in this game and for it to take off again for EA to allocate more of their resources to it. It's kind of a catch-22 I guess.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    But I dont really see that problem, becuse if they turn in to beein more hardcore and if that mean we play a more realistic play of hockey. People that still like to play hockey will get a more authentic experiencing, and by the more causal players, there will still be skill gap. So they match up against a similar opponent and can have fun in there skill level in a more hockey hardcore perspective.
  • 32Doak
    103 posts Member
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    Also I've said this before. If fatigue played a factor in HUT it would slow down the ragging. But when u have 99 everything, it's kinda hard to get tired. That HAS to be addressed next year

    Even in VS fatigue doesn't do anything. I consistently face guys that spam it the entire game and if you fight them at the end of the game, they somehow have the same amount of stamina on their bars as you do. It's mind boggling.

    There's are ways to optimize your lines and to deploy them more efficiently so that you have stamina at the end of the period when you need it.

    First off, you ideally want to put players with similar endurance ratings on each line/pairing. Sometimes that means placing an 85 overall player in the bottom 6 but it works and it balances your lines a bit.

    Next you want to try to have completely different players on your 5-man/4-man PP units and 4-man/3-man PK units so that your guys are always rotating in case you or your opponent are taking too many penalties.

    And in the beginning of periods, if there's a quick whistle, move on to the next line. Even if the line you had out there only used up a sliver of stamina, it will be regenerated if you go to the next line. That goes for any time in the game really... If you have a fully-rested line available, use it.... A.B.R.: ALWAYS BE REGENERATING! It all adds up and you'll see the results towards the end of each period.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited May 2020
    32Doak wrote: »
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    Also I've said this before. If fatigue played a factor in HUT it would slow down the ragging. But when u have 99 everything, it's kinda hard to get tired. That HAS to be addressed next year

    Even in VS fatigue doesn't do anything. I consistently face guys that spam it the entire game and if you fight them at the end of the game, they somehow have the same amount of stamina on their bars as you do. It's mind boggling.

    There's are ways to optimize your lines and to deploy them more efficiently so that you have stamina at the end of the period when you need it.

    First off, you ideally want to put players with similar endurance ratings on each line/pairing. Sometimes that means placing an 85 overall player in the bottom 6 but it works and it balances your lines a bit.

    Next you want to try to have completely different players on your 5-man/4-man PP units and 4-man/3-man PK units so that your guys are always rotating in case you or your opponent are taking too many penalties.

    And in the beginning of periods, if there's a quick whistle, move on to the next line. Even if the line you had out there only used up a sliver of stamina, it will be regenerated if you go to the next line. That goes for any time in the game really... If you have a fully-rested line available, use it.... A.B.R.: ALWAYS BE REGENERATING! It all adds up and you'll see the results towards the end of each period.

    Good to hear, and if you are carefully enough to use up stamina, ex dont sprint all game long. That should give even more results toward the end of the period. whether right should be right.

    Important too really draw a clear line here, so people see no result/meaning of just using speed as there only option. That would force people in to trying new ways - new ways of scoring = new game that we 'all' can enjoy! :)
    Post edited by Sega82mega on
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited May 2020
    And that one thing BF1 said about, be rewarded for their well-planned and well-executed attacker. Is all that I want, but there just some minor flaws inbetween my planned attacks and gameplay mechanisms that stands in my way. Its like I think to many steps ahead for the gameplay to catch up so I get stuck on some frustrating error(puck behave strangely or my players, connective problems etc. ) so I get runned over by this opponent that keeps the tactic simpel, all for themselves, full boost forward, puck on the net. Rag without a plan if you take the lead. If you keep the game simpel you win, if you go to advance, you probebly end up tripping yourself along the way of the well planned attack.

    It would get so satisfying feeling inside me when im startin to get rewarded after keepin the puck (!Not ragging!) to my team, at the same time I wait for the perfect moment to attack, then boom, 2-3 pass, score!... Aaa makes me dreamy!

    Importen to catch the speed the differences in a game, slow pace mixed with some explosive minutes. Not explosive ADHD hockey from beginning to end.
    Post edited by Sega82mega on
  • smyth9779 wrote: »
    Hey @untouchable_BF1 not sure if you played online VS lately, but I honestly can say IT'S A LOT BETTER than HUT or any other online mode. I'm sure offline is still better because you can adjust sliders and all that, but I rarely play anything other than online VS now because after the GWC qualifiers, I was totally convinced HUT has nothing.to do with skill. So im turned off to all HUT games and CHEL. It's not hockey. It's not fun. All you gotta do it's skate around like a figure skater doing twirls and swirls....

    You know that that’s all you have to do in VS too right?
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