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This game is TRASH!!! Really?!?

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  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    Offline sliders can make the game better, no doubt, but to be calling it "an incredible experience" is quite a stretch.

    The A.I is still horrible no matter what and most sliders are confusing, inconsistent or plain broken.

    Pretty much this. I have no doubt that a good set of sliders can make this game tolerable, but it's a far cry to say that any sliders can suddenly make every issue with the abysmally awful AI disappear.And that's nothing to say about trying to play as a goalie in your offline career which is in that same place in the dictionary where you can find Major Payne's Sympathy. :p

    And to this point again, I never said it did in my post. I’ve never for a second pretended that the AI is good in this game. From the 1-4 trap, to the backdoor issues, to the dmen stopping issues on the rush, I’ve always been in those discussions offering my suggestions for improvement. I didn’t magically forget everything I know about hockey, nor did I magically become blind to all of these issues just because I suggested that the opposition AI can be improved and that I can enjoy my own offline experience in NHL lol.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    Offline sliders can make the game better, no doubt, but to be calling it "an incredible experience" is quite a stretch.

    The A.I is still horrible no matter what and most sliders are confusing, inconsistent or plain broken.

    Pretty much this. I have no doubt that a good set of sliders can make this game tolerable, but it's a far cry to say that any sliders can suddenly make every issue with the abysmally awful AI disappear.And that's nothing to say about trying to play as a goalie in your offline career which is in that same place in the dictionary where you can find Major Payne's Sympathy. :p

    And to this point again, I never said it did in my post. I’ve never for a second pretended that the AI is good in this game. From the 1-4 trap, to the backdoor issues, to the dmen stopping issues on the rush, I’ve always been in those discussions offering my suggestions for improvement. I didn’t magically forget everything I know about hockey, nor did I magically become blind to all of these issues just because I suggested that the opposition AI can be improved and that I can enjoy my own offline experience in NHL lol.

    Nah it's all good! ;)

    I think it's great that people can enjoy this... game. I just can't. I analyse it too much, and then I start seeing flaw after flaw that I spent years trying to teach my players about when I was coaching and it just makes me mad. Such basic things...

    Like go turn up the board friction or board effect slider (I don't remember what it's called) and watch the AI be unable to pick up a puck against the board without slamming into it, stumbling then losing the puck. The obvious fix is to turn that slider WAY down, right? But then they still SLAM into the boards, just now they bounce off and go the other way like they were Wrestlers bouncing off the ropes in a WWE ring. So it's flawed if you do, and flawed if you don't.

    You just can't win! It's infuriating.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    Offline sliders can make the game better, no doubt, but to be calling it "an incredible experience" is quite a stretch.

    The A.I is still horrible no matter what and most sliders are confusing, inconsistent or plain broken.

    Pretty much this. I have no doubt that a good set of sliders can make this game tolerable, but it's a far cry to say that any sliders can suddenly make every issue with the abysmally awful AI disappear.And that's nothing to say about trying to play as a goalie in your offline career which is in that same place in the dictionary where you can find Major Payne's Sympathy. :p

    And to this point again, I never said it did in my post. I’ve never for a second pretended that the AI is good in this game. From the 1-4 trap, to the backdoor issues, to the dmen stopping issues on the rush, I’ve always been in those discussions offering my suggestions for improvement. I didn’t magically forget everything I know about hockey, nor did I magically become blind to all of these issues just because I suggested that the opposition AI can be improved and that I can enjoy my own offline experience in NHL lol.

    Nah it's all good! ;)

    I think it's great that people can enjoy this... game. I just can't. I analyse it too much, and then I start seeing flaw after flaw that I spent years trying to teach my players about when I was coaching and it just makes me mad. Such basic things...

    Like go turn up the board friction or board effect slider (I don't remember what it's called) and watch the AI be unable to pick up a puck against the board without slamming into it, stumbling then losing the puck. The obvious fix is to turn that slider WAY down, right? But then they still SLAM into the boards, just now they bounce off and go the other way like they were Wrestlers bouncing off the ropes in a WWE ring. So it's flawed if you do, and flawed if you don't.

    You just can't win! It's infuriating.

    I feel you man, I’m the same way. I can only play 2 games at a time even with my “experience” I’ll call it lol, because you’re right, the AI are just way too stupid. I do play my game like it’s an “esport” so it half-explains their stupidity (which delays my rage) but yes it’s exhausting after only a game or two! Especially your own team, they are just laughably useless compared to their AI opponent peers. This is why I play 1/2 the game as both teams, turn CPU shooting passing accuracy to 0, and turn them into full dump. Your end of the ice isn’t very realistic due to the fact that your AI are useless and the CPU does their laser passing stuff, so why not eliminate that zone from the gameplay as much as possible?

    For the board effect slider, I run 1/100 and don’t see any issues. I use 75 agility, I think 25 acceleration, 50 speed, and game speed 2. Haven’t seen them slam into the boards much, but I did see that as somewhat of a balance effect due to the fact that the AI can pivot and accelerate on a dime unlike humans haha. But seriously, I don’t see it much so maybe gotta tweak speed, acceleration, or something.
  • bryta47
    373 posts Member
    edited May 2020
    bryta47 wrote: »
    Offline sliders can make the game better, no doubt, but to be calling it "an incredible experience" is quite a stretch.

    The A.I is still horrible no matter what and most sliders are confusing, inconsistent or plain broken.

    I didn’t call my experience “incredible” but I referenced my slider set + strategy adjustments as proof that this game can get a lot closer than you realize in its current state. I then said how an overhauled AI would take this game to the next-level “Incredible” experience. I also said the variation of scoring and goal variety was “amazing” but I don’t think I ever stated that the experience was incredible as a whole. There’s objectively a ton of gameplay features and tools to replicate the sport fairly accurately in the game. If the AI were overhauled, the sliders would be able to produce an awesome hockey experience whether people would like to admit it or not.

    The foundation of my game experience is being able to adjust the opponent’s strategies. My adjustments aim to create an AI opponent who doesn’t freely give up the neutral zone, pinches and creates pressure when on offense, and forces you to make decisions in their defensive zone. Sure, I’d love my AI to be even remotely competent in supporting the puck, screening the goalie, or going to the backdoor when it’s open, but I can’t outright control that at a consistent level. It’s a limitation of the game and it’s one I, and many others, have made the dev team aware of in hopes of an improvement next generation. I’m not vouching for the AI nor am I pretending that they’re these incredible players that just need a few adjustments to fix, but I also won’t pretend that you can’t make this game an enjoyable experience offline either. It’s totally possible if you put the time in.

    As far as sliders go, which ones are confusing? Sure, there’s a ton of options but I don’t find any of them terribly “confusing” and I think Ben has even clarified some of the ones where people had questions on here. I’d be happy to to provide assistance on this front if you’re interested in making your own set, as this game is not even remotely interesting in the online environment currently. I’d encourage any and every “sim” hockey fan to completely abandon online modes as there’s nothing there for you. We’ve all be complaining about meta for 13 years now, I think it’s time to realize the default online meta will never be built for us.

    You said ”My sliders + strategy adjustments are proof that all the tools are in this game for an incredible experience”. I’m sorry if I misread you and I do get your point.

    I’ve been adjusting my own custom sliders for many years now (online is beyond unplayable), so I’m no novice to them. You can have some fun offline, sure, but the A.I is so fundamentally bad it ruins every ounce of immersion. Every time I see them charge head first into the boards behind their own goal, get stuck offside or make the same exact play for the 111:th time - it just makes me want to turn the game off. It’s so incredible... lifeless.

    And, sure, I could probably discuss every single slider at length - some are fine, they’re not all weird or broken, but overall they’re very messy.

    EDIT: I also get the feeling that the A.I is worse in NHL 20 than before - which is nothing but baffling.
  • HoodHoppers
    1486 posts Member
    Every EA goal ever:



    Force 'er through 3 guys, we got this! Also the fact that you can't intercept a pass on your backhand while squared up to the puck, regardless of whether your stick is right there or not is so unbelievably frustrating.
  • HoodHoppers
    1486 posts Member
    edited May 2020
    Also, pokechecking is awful. Not to mention the guy skating away from the puck VS the guy skating right at it at the same distance apart is obviously gonna be the guy who picks it up first. Duh. The issue with picking pucks up where you're skating away from it is that it activates a full length's stick worth of animation so they literally reach out to grab it, however when facing it you can only seem to pick it up in your wheelhouse so it's not about body positioning, it's about the animations I think.

  • Has anyone else brought up that when the AI does one of their awful board passes to you, you get forced to move in a certain way? This happens in be a pro... they literally take control away from you and force you to skate in a specific straight line to the puck... that puck almost always gets intercepted because you are not able to cut an angle to the puck.
  • bryta47 wrote: »
    bryta47 wrote: »
    Offline sliders can make the game better, no doubt, but to be calling it "an incredible experience" is quite a stretch.

    The A.I is still horrible no matter what and most sliders are confusing, inconsistent or plain broken.

    I didn’t call my experience “incredible” but I referenced my slider set + strategy adjustments as proof that this game can get a lot closer than you realize in its current state. I then said how an overhauled AI would take this game to the next-level “Incredible” experience. I also said the variation of scoring and goal variety was “amazing” but I don’t think I ever stated that the experience was incredible as a whole. There’s objectively a ton of gameplay features and tools to replicate the sport fairly accurately in the game. If the AI were overhauled, the sliders would be able to produce an awesome hockey experience whether people would like to admit it or not.

    The foundation of my game experience is being able to adjust the opponent’s strategies. My adjustments aim to create an AI opponent who doesn’t freely give up the neutral zone, pinches and creates pressure when on offense, and forces you to make decisions in their defensive zone. Sure, I’d love my AI to be even remotely competent in supporting the puck, screening the goalie, or going to the backdoor when it’s open, but I can’t outright control that at a consistent level. It’s a limitation of the game and it’s one I, and many others, have made the dev team aware of in hopes of an improvement next generation. I’m not vouching for the AI nor am I pretending that they’re these incredible players that just need a few adjustments to fix, but I also won’t pretend that you can’t make this game an enjoyable experience offline either. It’s totally possible if you put the time in.

    As far as sliders go, which ones are confusing? Sure, there’s a ton of options but I don’t find any of them terribly “confusing” and I think Ben has even clarified some of the ones where people had questions on here. I’d be happy to to provide assistance on this front if you’re interested in making your own set, as this game is not even remotely interesting in the online environment currently. I’d encourage any and every “sim” hockey fan to completely abandon online modes as there’s nothing there for you. We’ve all be complaining about meta for 13 years now, I think it’s time to realize the default online meta will never be built for us.

    You said ”My sliders + strategy adjustments are proof that all the tools are in this game for an incredible experience”. I’m sorry if I misread you and I do get your point.

    I’ve been adjusting my own custom sliders for many years now (online is beyond unplayable), so I’m no novice to them. You can have some fun offline, sure, but the A.I is so fundamentally bad it ruins every ounce of immersion. Every time I see them charge head first into the boards behind their own goal, get stuck offside or make the same exact play for the 111:th time - it just makes me want to turn the game off. It’s so incredible... lifeless.

    And, sure, I could probably discuss every single slider at length - some are fine, they’re not all weird or broken, but overall they’re very messy.

    EDIT: I also get the feeling that the A.I is worse in NHL 20 than before - which is nothing but baffling.

    I gotcha, my mistake! I meant to imply that my attempt to recreate hockey does produce very believable gameplay at times, and that with how much the sliders + strategy adjustments can be modified (these need to be more consistent but they work fairly well) all of the “tools” are there for an incredible experience. Unfortunately immersion is constantly broken by the AI are their less than believable play which obviously can’t be fixed. If we get an AI overhaul, I seriously believe we have most of the “tools” to make the game a seriously great experience. So I guess the AI is the “material” then lol. Tools are here, stuff to actually work with is lagging behind.
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