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"Just the same" guys?

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  • I haven't played the Beta yet but having played the last few iterations of this game, I'll throw out my two cents:

    I'll defend the developers for a second by saying that a video game will never fully feel like an actual NHL game. You can't replicate the human brain and account for every possible scenario given how many moving parts there are in a hockey game. That said, the game is still far more arcade than simulation with big hits still replacing any attempt to replicate actual hockey defense. I tend to go by how the AI plays to see what is possible from a gameplay standpoint and I consistently see the AI just unable to body up their marks and leave guys wide open all the time. I'm sick of seeing two AI defenders trail a forward into the corner only to let him slip away easily. This tells me that defense is a complete afterthought in this game and isn't really meant to be good. The game is all about cheap goals and big hits at the expense of actual hockey.

    But even from a non-hockey standpoint, the physics engine is still brutal. Pucks don't act like pucks. When there's a rebound or a blocked shot, the puck seems to have an intended destination rather than just going wherever physics takes them. Players pick up pucks with too much ease leading to ridiculously easy goals. Well timed hits are often shrugged off and poorly timed hits are often successful. The game becomes extremely hard to play when I can't rely on the basic laws of physics. I have to be able to assume that when I skate past someone they won't still be able to plaster me into the boards from behind or that a player pinned to the boards won't be able to make a strong pass into the slot.

    Overall, I feel like the gameplay hasn't really changed much. The small tweaks that are made seem to be more about cosmetics than actual gameplay. And even when things are "fixed", it tends to be in the wrong place. For example, passing in this game needs to be overhauled but, last year, instead of nerfing blind passes the developers seemed to focus on downgrading the accuracy of wide open stretch passes. The amount of times I'd miss a wide open stretch pass, even while playing as a puck moving defenseman, was insane. Yet, a player could still blindly fire a pass across the ice with no problems. Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.
  • jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 5
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.

    See, that's the biggest problem with this game.

    When I play F1 2020, I have to drive my car like a Formula One Car. Not just to win, but to complete a race. I have to watch my Fuel usage, I have to be careful of my Tyres not getting worn. I have to take the best line to minimize my time around the track in order to stay in or gain positions. I have to be mindful of other drivers on the track with me and not damage my car. Even one slight nudge and the car will drive different. Even if I dumb it down and turn the difficulty down, I still have to DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE DRIVER to make it around the track and finish it the race.

    I can't cut corners. I can't bounce off walls. I can't DRIVE BACKWARDS. I can't drive like it's Mario Kart or Ridge Racer.

    Sure you can play NHL 20 "like hockey" and still be good. That's not the problem. It's that you can play like NOT hockey and still succeed.

    And that doesn't look like it's going away with NHL 21. In fact, just the opposite, NHL 21 will allow it even worse than previous years did.

  • Oslik1000
    461 posts Member
    edited September 5
    no comment.... B)
    Post edited by Oslik1000 on
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.

    See, that's the biggest problem with this game.

    When I play F1 2020, I have to drive my car like a Formula One Car. Not just to win, but to complete a race. I have to watch my Fuel usage, I have to be careful of my Tyres not getting worn. I have to take the best line to minimize my time around the track in order to stay in or gain positions. I have to be mindful of other drivers on the track with me and not damage my car. Even one slight nudge and the car will drive different. Even if I dumb it down and turn the difficulty down, I still have to DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE DRIVER to make it around the track and finish it the race.

    I can't cut corners. I can't bounce off walls. I can't DRIVE BACKWARDS. I can't drive like it's Mario Kart or Ridge Racer.

    Sure you can play NHL 20 "like hockey" and still be good. That's not the problem. It's that you can play like NOT hockey and still succeed.

    And that doesn't look like it's going away with NHL 21. In fact, just the opposite, NHL 21 will allow it even worse than previous years did.

    Exactly. If you want players to play real hockey and do things the "correct way" the game has to incentivize that. If a player can reach back and just corral a pass coming from behind him without looking at it and get off an easy one-timer, there's no reason for that person to get himself into a shooting position. I'm not going to take the extra time to create a passing lane if I know that the puck is going to go through the defenseman 50% of the time anyway. You can't provide a game where the physically impossible happens and then expect the users to just avoid taking advantage of those things that are physically impossible.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.

    See, that's the biggest problem with this game.

    When I play F1 2020, I have to drive my car like a Formula One Car. Not just to win, but to complete a race. I have to watch my Fuel usage, I have to be careful of my Tyres not getting worn. I have to take the best line to minimize my time around the track in order to stay in or gain positions. I have to be mindful of other drivers on the track with me and not damage my car. Even one slight nudge and the car will drive different. Even if I dumb it down and turn the difficulty down, I still have to DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE DRIVER to make it around the track and finish it the race.

    I can't cut corners. I can't bounce off walls. I can't DRIVE BACKWARDS. I can't drive like it's Mario Kart or Ridge Racer.

    Sure you can play NHL 20 "like hockey" and still be good. That's not the problem. It's that you can play like NOT hockey and still succeed.

    And that doesn't look like it's going away with NHL 21. In fact, just the opposite, NHL 21 will allow it even worse than previous years did.

    Sounds very addictive and fun.

    Games can be good education, I read somewhere U.S. Marines train soldiers using video games.

    A real good hockey sim could be a good ambassador for the great game of hockey.
  • jgrangers2 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.

    See, that's the biggest problem with this game.

    When I play F1 2020, I have to drive my car like a Formula One Car. Not just to win, but to complete a race. I have to watch my Fuel usage, I have to be careful of my Tyres not getting worn. I have to take the best line to minimize my time around the track in order to stay in or gain positions. I have to be mindful of other drivers on the track with me and not damage my car. Even one slight nudge and the car will drive different. Even if I dumb it down and turn the difficulty down, I still have to DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE DRIVER to make it around the track and finish it the race.

    I can't cut corners. I can't bounce off walls. I can't DRIVE BACKWARDS. I can't drive like it's Mario Kart or Ridge Racer.

    Sure you can play NHL 20 "like hockey" and still be good. That's not the problem. It's that you can play like NOT hockey and still succeed.

    And that doesn't look like it's going away with NHL 21. In fact, just the opposite, NHL 21 will allow it even worse than previous years did.

    Exactly. If you want players to play real hockey and do things the "correct way" the game has to incentivize that. If a player can reach back and just corral a pass coming from behind him without looking at it and get off an easy one-timer, there's no reason for that person to get himself into a shooting position. I'm not going to take the extra time to create a passing lane if I know that the puck is going to go through the defenseman 50% of the time anyway. You can't provide a game where the physically impossible happens and then expect the users to just avoid taking advantage of those things that are physically impossible.

    Nah you are right, importen to get thoose impossible moves out of the game, so we have to sweat abit more for goals.

    Should work out something new when it comes to puck reception. Good and bad receptions dependent on how hard the pass is and how much room the player got.

    IRL slapshot dump around the corner is often hard for the defenders to take control over, but in this game it stick like glue to the player.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 5
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    jgrangers2 wrote: »
    Nobody is going to play real hockey so long as they know that just firing a cross crease pass, even with traffic there, is the best way to score goals.

    You said alot of good stuff, but this is the biggest problem, cause you can, if you really try, play something pretty similar to hockey, but the price is still to high, to much work for 'nothing'. But still, this beta is a step in the right direction, for me at least, and I put more value in playing as real it can get then to win games, but I would love if I could have them both, of course.

    See, that's the biggest problem with this game.

    When I play F1 2020, I have to drive my car like a Formula One Car. Not just to win, but to complete a race. I have to watch my Fuel usage, I have to be careful of my Tyres not getting worn. I have to take the best line to minimize my time around the track in order to stay in or gain positions. I have to be mindful of other drivers on the track with me and not damage my car. Even one slight nudge and the car will drive different. Even if I dumb it down and turn the difficulty down, I still have to DRIVE LIKE A FORMULA ONE DRIVER to make it around the track and finish it the race.

    I can't cut corners. I can't bounce off walls. I can't DRIVE BACKWARDS. I can't drive like it's Mario Kart or Ridge Racer.

    Sure you can play NHL 20 "like hockey" and still be good. That's not the problem. It's that you can play like NOT hockey and still succeed.

    And that doesn't look like it's going away with NHL 21. In fact, just the opposite, NHL 21 will allow it even worse than previous years did.

    Sounds very addictive and fun.

    Games can be good education, I read somewhere U.S. Marines train soldiers using video games.

    A real good hockey sim could be a good ambassador for the great game of hockey.

    F1 2020 is fun because it does what the name says: play like an F1 race. Even if you go and turn off the damage to cars, you STILL have to race like a formula one driver to win a race. You have to accelerate on straights and brake at corners, and you have to find the optimal racing line to go around the track in the least amount of time. Even cutting two hundreds of a second can mean the difference between 1st place and 10th place, just like in real life.

    F1 2020 is fun to its fans, because it gives them what they purchased. They may not be 10s of millions of us, but the 1-2 million fans that do buy just want to race Formula One. Not Mario Kart. Not a "hybrid" of F1. Actual F1 racing. Codemasters understood this a few years ago and the game has been great ever since and fans are happy buying it and playing it.

    NHL could be a lot of fun, if the game actually had some hockey in it. Not NES Ice Hockey. Not EA Hockey. Actual NHL hockey. But unlike Codemasters, EA doesn't listen. So the game continues in a downward spiral. Eventually, when the money goes away, so will this game and then we'll be left with nothing.
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