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Transitional skating is broken for NHL 21

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  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 3

    You sir have come to the right person to talk about the speed of the defensive builds.
    My first post ever was about how the defensive builds in EASHL are not representative of the current NHL. The 2 defensive first builds are DD and TWD. TWD is limited to 6' 200lbs which is like 84spd and 84acc. DD are limited to 6'2" 210lbs which I think maxes out at 82 for both. The meta from what I've seen is small and fast. The defense needs to control gaps without being able to keep up with the forwards. I could go on and on forever about this, but the EA team needs to shift the defensive heights and weights to more accurately portray the currently league.

    Boosting the D build speeds seems reasonable, or at least allowing a larger range of height weight for the different D builds. Why cant I have a speedy defensive D. I guess the same reason forwards can't have a jumbo playmaker any more?
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • RSall14
    572 posts Member
    edited September 3
    RSall14 wrote: »
    Locking us in as soon as the pass comes our way is a garbage change

    It's been like this for years

    Before 20, you could change your aim up until the puck hit your stick. That's not the case anymore, as soon as the pass heads your way the game locks in your aim.

    I moved the comment to the tech test thread as I don't wanna derail this thread.
  • Mr_Darklighter
    292 posts Member
    edited September 3
    Good post. One of the D I play with sent this link to me as well. I was banned before I could post it, glad to see someone else did.

    This is indeed a classic case of trying to fix something but breaking something else.

    The way defense was made last year made it so that you need to be so passive in your approach to shutting down forwards, this just makes it even more so. Very worrisome indeed.

    I sincerely hope they address this before the release. If not it is just going to make more and more people shift to 3's, killing the already dwindling 6's population.

    I haven't played the technical test but this does seem like a game-breaker for the already suffering defensemen in this game. Has there been any acknowledgement on this issue by EA?

  • Code must be a mess, how are they unable to separate L2 settings with and without the puck 2 years in a row now?
  • I hope the skating is better in nhl 21 ...nhl 20 tuners kill the skating (especially the top end speed )just do the test it s pretty easy
    You just have to erase your profile and start the game back ..tuner are attach to players profile ...with the latest tuner even with game speed at 6 and speed at 100 ...skating feel slugish...
    With no tuner ...i go game speed 0..acc 23 back skating 23 ...speed 79 ....try it out the game is thousand time better ....

    Nhl 20 had the right skating balance for a month or so ...
    All the nhl in the ps4 era ...were the same the biggest problem was the skating ...
    To sluggish ..slow and boring...

    Cheers ...
    To ea :smile: put roster sharing in ...it s time...thanx
    MRSENATEURS
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    *commences to banging my head on a desk*

    i was thinking the same thing. sega, nothing personal but it seems you didn't fully understand what majjam was saying
  • I've basically played defense exclusively in EASHL for the past 3 years and I agree with Majjam. I'll be tracking the puck carrier and see my opportunity to make a defensive play and the poke misses, the stick lift misses and now he has inside position on me and I can't catch up. Hitting got more difficult in 20 and in 21 it feels like if the guy isn't asleep at the wheel you're going to miss. What else am I supposed to do if stick checking, stick lift and hitting don't work? Should I just be a moving screen? I want to be optimistic and say that I'm probably just lagging and the beta servers suck. But only time will tell. This isn't the first time I've complained about the lack of tools that defense has in this game.

    This is exactly what I said would happen when they started messing with L2. I would rather deal with L2 unrealistically zipping around the offensively zone than what we have right now. Defending is SOOO much worse than its been in years. Basically if you are any good at all offensively at all you are scoring 8-10 goals a game I have to imagine. I've only played drop in and every game has been with a complete team of morons and yet I would bet we average about 6 scored goals a game (of course that hasn't stopped the goofs from stating things like "guys we aren't shooting enough" because we are losing 5-6 half way through the game. they don't realize the problem is they all suck at defense). If we have a good game its been 8-10 a bad game still at least 4. I mostly play center and spend my of my time covering the D and trying to break out the pass so rather get the puck back in random drop games. Even then I think I'm averaging over 4pts about 50/50 games are AI Goalie.

    Also so far to me it seems like pass intercepts are completely nerfed. I've never seen so many forced passes right through the teeth of defenders facing the puck just go right through. I play a lot of center and while defensive tools have been lacking its been nice that if you are always in the right position cross ice passes almost never worked. Early observations I have would be if 80% of those plays were intercepted before now its about 33%

    its not all bad its just insanely sad that another year goes by and the game stays basically the same. If i sat down and wrote out all the complaints I have for this game over the past 2-3 years, almost none have been addressed before 21 and absolutely not a single remaining issue was addressed by 21. So another full AAA price to keep playing the exact same game with a couple of silly add on dekes no one should care about and some new abilities to pass to one's self.
  • TheMajjam
    692 posts Member
    edited September 4
    Hearing the same thing from more people on the far corners of the internet.

    MTxzgOx.png

    "They need to fix the backskating/pivoting speed in WOC. Right now playing tight gap control on defense (and actually defense in general) is nearly impossible if you're facing fast forwards.

    And I don't mean L2 back skating in the offensive zone, I mean when you're back skating playing defense. They nerfed back skating speed in general, but didn't account for the fact that back skating is the primary mode of skating for a defenseman."

    I wonder if we're on to something here or if we're just being flat-footed. :(
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Hearing the same thing from more people on the far corners of the internet.

    MTxzgOx.png

    "They need to fix the backskating/pivoting speed in WOC. Right now playing tight gap control on defense (and actually defense in general) is nearly impossible if you're facing fast forwards.

    And I don't mean L2 back skating in the offensive zone, I mean when you're back skating playing defense. They nerfed back skating speed in general, but didn't account for the fact that back skating is the primary mode of skating for a defenseman."

    I wonder if we're on to something here or if we're just being flat-footed. :(
    I really hope things change significantly before release. As I mentioned in the other topic, playing effective D is basically impossible now. I have bought this game every year since NHL14, and this is the first time I am seriously considering not getting it.

    Also, I have to think that it being so bad right now is the reason I cant find anyone online to play with.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Hearing the same thing from more people on the far corners of the internet.

    MTxzgOx.png

    "They need to fix the backskating/pivoting speed in WOC. Right now playing tight gap control on defense (and actually defense in general) is nearly impossible if you're facing fast forwards.

    And I don't mean L2 back skating in the offensive zone, I mean when you're back skating playing defense. They nerfed back skating speed in general, but didn't account for the fact that back skating is the primary mode of skating for a defenseman."

    I wonder if we're on to something here or if we're just being flat-footed. :(
    I really hope things change significantly before release. As I mentioned in the other topic, playing effective D is basically impossible now. I have bought this game every year since NHL14, and this is the first time I am seriously considering not getting it.

    Also, I have to think that it being so bad right now is the reason I cant find anyone online to play with.

    Absolutely agree. This won't be a first day buy for me this time. I'm going to wait and see what changes, if any, are implemented.
  • I'm going to disagree with this initial post and I disagree with the reddit post.

    Part of the problem with this game has been separation of skilled players vs non skilled players, in general. The way they designed NHL 2020, to summarize lightly on this topic, would be "Look, everyone can be a superstar! Life is good, even your grandmother can win a NHL 2020 World Championship".

    What happened though, as does with trying to even the playing field to include everyone (looking at you millennials), is you get people who don't need the same help/support as others might and they in turn exploit the weaknesses in the game because they don't HAVE to worry about the logistics/gameplay or even proper offense/defense - it's all done for them and we end up with what's happened so far in this game franchise (which everyone hates anyways).

    So how does EA try to fix it? By implementing and modifying new and existing skating mechanics, which is better than nothing, to ensure there's some form of separation.

    I am in no means defending EA for many of the other issues in this franchise or what needs to be fixed, but if you are blind to the fact that they've implemented something that doesn't cater to certain player's desperate needs then there's more pressing problems in this community to deal with.
  • TheMajjam
    692 posts Member
    edited September 4
    Alhizzy wrote: »
    I'm going to disagree with this initial post and I disagree with the reddit post.

    Part of the problem with this game has been separation of skilled players vs non skilled players, in general. The way they designed NHL 2020, to summarize lightly on this topic, would be "Look, everyone can be a superstar! Life is good, even your grandmother can win a NHL 2020 World Championship".

    What happened though, as does with trying to even the playing field to include everyone (looking at you millennials), is you get people who don't need the same help/support as others might and they in turn exploit the weaknesses in the game because they don't HAVE to worry about the logistics/gameplay or even proper offense/defense - it's all done for them and we end up with what's happened so far in this game franchise (which everyone hates anyways).

    So how does EA try to fix it? By implementing and modifying new and existing skating mechanics, which is better than nothing, to ensure there's some form of separation.

    I am in no means defending EA for many of the other issues in this franchise or what needs to be fixed, but if you are blind to the fact that they've implemented something that doesn't cater to certain player's desperate needs then there's more pressing problems in this community to deal with.

    TIL that not wanting a further gimping of defense is equal to being desperate.

    If you think defense in NHL 20 is easy, then I already know you're not a defender. Most people who think defense is fine don't actually play defense at all. I'd love to be proved wrong though, and wouldn't mind seeing your stats as a defenseman in 20.

    In either case, you should curb your millennial hatred. It's been overplayed for a long time now.

  • > @TheMajjam said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > TIL that not wanting a further gimping of defense is equal to being desperate.
    >
    > If you think defense in NHL 20 is easy, then I already know you're not a defender. Most people who think defense is fine don't actually play defense at all. I'd love to be proved wrong though, and wouldn't mind seeing your stats as a defenseman in 20.
    >
    > In either case, you should curb your millennial hatred. It's been overplayed for a long time now.


    I only play defense in NHL and it's taken me a long time to swallow my pride. I used to be that guy among my friends who could play like the '08 or '17 Senators and shut down ANY team with Detroit. I've been the worst team in the league and I used to be able to pull off W's because I could play D, so assuming I'm not a defender because I'm calling out the post is a sad mistake on your part.

    The game heavily favors offense, so what? Adapt and switch your playstyle until they fix the defender issues.

    To blame the game that there's no defense, like you don't have some sort of control over your own fate, sounds like a subjective issue more than a core mechanical game issue.

    FYI - also a millennial so this post is to millennials, from a millennial if you so care about that stuff.
  • Alhizzy wrote: »
    > @TheMajjam said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > TIL that not wanting a further gimping of defense is equal to being desperate.
    >
    > If you think defense in NHL 20 is easy, then I already know you're not a defender. Most people who think defense is fine don't actually play defense at all. I'd love to be proved wrong though, and wouldn't mind seeing your stats as a defenseman in 20.
    >
    > In either case, you should curb your millennial hatred. It's been overplayed for a long time now.


    I only play defense in NHL and it's taken me a long time to swallow my pride. I used to be that guy among my friends who could play like the '08 or '17 Senators and shut down ANY team with Detroit. I've been the worst team in the league and I used to be able to pull off W's because I could play D, so assuming I'm not a defender because I'm calling out the post is a sad mistake on your part.

    The game heavily favors offense, so what? Adapt and switch your playstyle until they fix the defender issues.

    To blame the game that there's no defense, like you don't have some sort of control over your own fate, sounds like a subjective issue more than a core mechanical game issue.

    FYI - also a millennial so this post is to millennials, from a millennial if you so care about that stuff.

    What's sad is I always ask for stats but it seems few people can ever back up their points with them. I've thrown out my stats as a defender already in these forums, so I'm way too tired to keep referencing them to show people that the complainers aren't slouches at defense. What's also sad is that few people can also back their points up because they don't show video and/or clips. I've done plenty of that as well, and if you've been prevalent on the talks of defense in the NHL 20 sub-forums, you'd know this.

    Anyway, thank you for being another "adapt and overcome" statistic that leans on this philosophy while assuming any of these issues will be fixed. They probably won't and you're not helping any. It translates to a plethora of players that play D screaming for parity in gameplay at EA, while two or three people stand in the corner saying "this is fine", and EA responding with, "See, people think our game is okay. No need to change anything."

    Lastly, you're talking about the Senators and Detroit. Which leads me to believe you're talking about HUT or Vs where the game differs in mechanics, play styles, and skill compared to EASHL. D-men coming from those modes that dominate against mostly inferior AI will get a gut check from top 6v6 teams.
  • I can't take anyone referencing vs or HUT seriously. Those game modes are absolute garbage and do not resemble real hockey most of the time.

    Play 6s with a full squad against another full squad that remotely know what they are doing and even a top VS player would be destroyed. Defense or otherwise.

    Defense was in poor shape last year. Scoring from the point was way down, the passive play defenders are basically forced into is just boring and frustrating. Now it sounds worse this year. Very discouraging.

    I consider myself a pretty good shutdown center and even I can attest to this. I've played a few games on D and I'd say I'm definitely better than average, but I'd struggle against forwards that I shouldn't be struggling against due to a lack of tools.

    With back-skating now messed up this makes it even worse.
  • > @Mr_Darklighter said:
    > I can't take anyone referencing vs or HUT seriously. Those game modes are absolute garbage and do not resemble real hockey most of the time.
    >
    > Play 6s with a full squad against another full squad that remotely know what they are doing and even a top VS player would be destroyed. Defense or otherwise.
    >
    > Defense was in poor shape last year. Scoring from the point was way down, the passive play defenders are basically forced into is just boring and frustrating. Now it sounds worse this year. Very discouraging.
    >
    > I consider myself a pretty good shutdown center and even I can attest to this. I've played a few games on D and I'd say I'm definitely better than average, but I'd struggle against forwards that I shouldn't be struggling against due to a lack of tools.
    >
    > With back-skating now messed up this makes it even worse.

    Completely agree with your point here - the game in general does not resemble hockey to its fullest extent, so I don't know why either of you would dismiss someone's point of view from any mode outside of EASHL, as 100 posts before this point out, there are few differences and people want to find SOME way to separate these players/modes from each other.

    Let me roll back then, and take this stance from a 6v6 defender point of view. Part of the issue is still offense and we can agree on that, right? I still don't agree with the fact that back skating, nor the skating mechanics have been "ruined" because of what EA has implemented. Game mode aside, the skating mechanics ARE the same, it just varies from a 1-on-1 battle point of view and a HUM v HUM point of view.

    Which again, if you are unable to defend because you neither use the skating mechanics properly, get blown past because of whatever excuse you make, or can't puck battle in front of a net, then you're again - out to lunch.

    We can agree to disagree on this guys, that's fine too :)
  • Alhizzy wrote: »
    > @Mr_Darklighter said:
    > I can't take anyone referencing vs or HUT seriously. Those game modes are absolute garbage and do not resemble real hockey most of the time.
    >
    > Play 6s with a full squad against another full squad that remotely know what they are doing and even a top VS player would be destroyed. Defense or otherwise.
    >
    > Defense was in poor shape last year. Scoring from the point was way down, the passive play defenders are basically forced into is just boring and frustrating. Now it sounds worse this year. Very discouraging.
    >
    > I consider myself a pretty good shutdown center and even I can attest to this. I've played a few games on D and I'd say I'm definitely better than average, but I'd struggle against forwards that I shouldn't be struggling against due to a lack of tools.
    >
    > With back-skating now messed up this makes it even worse.

    Completely agree with your point here - the game in general does not resemble hockey to its fullest extent, so I don't know why either of you would dismiss someone's point of view from any mode outside of EASHL, as 100 posts before this point out, there are few differences and people want to find SOME way to separate these players/modes from each other.

    Let me roll back then, and take this stance from a 6v6 defender point of view. Part of the issue is still offense and we can agree on that, right? I still don't agree with the fact that back skating, nor the skating mechanics have been "ruined" because of what EA has implemented. Game mode aside, the skating mechanics ARE the same, it just varies from a 1-on-1 battle point of view and a HUM v HUM point of view.

    Which again, if you are unable to defend because you neither use the skating mechanics properly, get blown past because of whatever excuse you make, or can't puck battle in front of a net, then you're again - out to lunch.

    We can agree to disagree on this guys, that's fine too :)

    what you failed to recognize is that "skill gap" changes without balance are a terrible idea. Nerfing defense while seemingly boosting offense in a game that is already heavily favoring offense is just plain stupid.

    playing defense now you have to be ULTRA passive. I watch so many defenders that think they have good gap just get every tom 🎃🎃🎃🎃 and harry speedster wing just blowing past them. Can you adapt, yep. Is this really skill gap improvements ? NOPE. just bad mechanics that were fine the way they were.


    This game BADLY needs to grow. one of those ways is to make the less appealing positions easier to play. Like goalie and defense. Right now with the wonky backskating/transition and pass intercepts nerf I watch many D doing exactly what they should just getting burned.

    Also, this has created a situation where the skill gap has narrowed offensively. I used to watch all these noobs in drop ins skating around struggling to ever score. Now they just skate right past or pass right through the defense and the goalies are as bad or worse than last year. lots of easy scoring.
  • Mr_Darklighter
    292 posts Member
    edited September 5
    Playing defense simply isn't fun anymore. And it is because of the points that Majjam has already stated.

    If you were good, you used to be able to be a shut down force on a team whether it be at goalie or defense. Getting big hits, making big shut down plays and even getting on the scoreboard with a goal or two. It was FUN and REWARDING to play. Or with goalie making great game-changing reactionary saves etc.

    Now it is an absolute chore to play D or goalie. For defense, as has been mentioned, you need to play so passively so as not to get a penalty or get burned. You are effectively stripped of your tools and are forced to play this extremely boring and careful game of gap control and nudging your body into opposing players.

    The goalie I played with last night put it best for goal tending. He said you used to be able to make great saves with instinct and reaction time, good positioning etc. He then said that nowadays as a goalie you basically have to guess what players are doing before they even do it to have any hope of making a save.

    Meanwhile completely unskilled forwards are dancing around with ease making a mockery of the skilled players defending against them.

    And yes playing 6s is not comparable to playing d in vs. Vs is a different tuner and you are playing with NHL player attributes. I'm sure if you were to position lock on D in a vs game you'd be saying something different anyway.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Alhizzy wrote: »
    > @TheMajjam said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > TIL that not wanting a further gimping of defense is equal to being desperate.
    >
    > If you think defense in NHL 20 is easy, then I already know you're not a defender. Most people who think defense is fine don't actually play defense at all. I'd love to be proved wrong though, and wouldn't mind seeing your stats as a defenseman in 20.
    >
    > In either case, you should curb your millennial hatred. It's been overplayed for a long time now.


    I only play defense in NHL and it's taken me a long time to swallow my pride. I used to be that guy among my friends who could play like the '08 or '17 Senators and shut down ANY team with Detroit. I've been the worst team in the league and I used to be able to pull off W's because I could play D, so assuming I'm not a defender because I'm calling out the post is a sad mistake on your part.

    The game heavily favors offense, so what? Adapt and switch your playstyle until they fix the defender issues.

    To blame the game that there's no defense, like you don't have some sort of control over your own fate, sounds like a subjective issue more than a core mechanical game issue.

    FYI - also a millennial so this post is to millennials, from a millennial if you so care about that stuff.

    What's sad is I always ask for stats but it seems few people can ever back up their points with them. I've thrown out my stats as a defender already in these forums, so I'm way too tired to keep referencing them to show people that the complainers aren't slouches at defense. What's also sad is that few people can also back their points up because they don't show video and/or clips. I've done plenty of that as well, and if you've been prevalent on the talks of defense in the NHL 20 sub-forums, you'd know this.

    Anyway, thank you for being another "adapt and overcome" statistic that leans on this philosophy while assuming any of these issues will be fixed. They probably won't and you're not helping any. It translates to a plethora of players that play D screaming for parity in gameplay at EA, while two or three people stand in the corner saying "this is fine", and EA responding with, "See, people think our game is okay. No need to change anything."

    Lastly, you're talking about the Senators and Detroit. Which leads me to believe you're talking about HUT or Vs where the game differs in mechanics, play styles, and skill compared to EASHL. D-men coming from those modes that dominate against mostly inferior AI will get a gut check from top 6v6 teams.

    Jam looking for blood! hahaha
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Alhizzy wrote: »
    > @TheMajjam said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > TIL that not wanting a further gimping of defense is equal to being desperate.
    >
    > If you think defense in NHL 20 is easy, then I already know you're not a defender. Most people who think defense is fine don't actually play defense at all. I'd love to be proved wrong though, and wouldn't mind seeing your stats as a defenseman in 20.
    >
    > In either case, you should curb your millennial hatred. It's been overplayed for a long time now.


    I only play defense in NHL and it's taken me a long time to swallow my pride. I used to be that guy among my friends who could play like the '08 or '17 Senators and shut down ANY team with Detroit. I've been the worst team in the league and I used to be able to pull off W's because I could play D, so assuming I'm not a defender because I'm calling out the post is a sad mistake on your part.

    The game heavily favors offense, so what? Adapt and switch your playstyle until they fix the defender issues.

    To blame the game that there's no defense, like you don't have some sort of control over your own fate, sounds like a subjective issue more than a core mechanical game issue.

    FYI - also a millennial so this post is to millennials, from a millennial if you so care about that stuff.

    What's sad is I always ask for stats but it seems few people can ever back up their points with them. I've thrown out my stats as a defender already in these forums, so I'm way too tired to keep referencing them to show people that the complainers aren't slouches at defense. What's also sad is that few people can also back their points up because they don't show video and/or clips. I've done plenty of that as well, and if you've been prevalent on the talks of defense in the NHL 20 sub-forums, you'd know this.

    Anyway, thank you for being another "adapt and overcome" statistic that leans on this philosophy while assuming any of these issues will be fixed. They probably won't and you're not helping any. It translates to a plethora of players that play D screaming for parity in gameplay at EA, while two or three people stand in the corner saying "this is fine", and EA responding with, "See, people think our game is okay. No need to change anything."

    Lastly, you're talking about the Senators and Detroit. Which leads me to believe you're talking about HUT or Vs where the game differs in mechanics, play styles, and skill compared to EASHL. D-men coming from those modes that dominate against mostly inferior AI will get a gut check from top 6v6 teams.

    Jam looking for blood! hahaha

    Lol. Our record speaks for itself, sir.
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