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Transitional skating is broken for NHL 21

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  • @TheMajjam

    Am I seeing your player skate between the puck and the forward while stick lifting here? A stick lift animation being confused for a shove? Am I also seeing the FORWARD as being the one who went for the shove?

    I am confused. It looks to me like the outcome should have been the goofball forward losing the puck?

    With further investigation here was the response:

    "I'm just noticing now that it looks like you tried to shove them at the last moment. That's not going to let you pick up the puck."

    But yet the forward gets instantaneous possession after he did, without a shadow of doubt, shove. Sooooo, shove doesn't let you pick up the puck...unless you are a forward. Then you can have it back with no questions asked. This play should have been dead after the dumb toe drag. It could have been dead further with the play in the circle and went for a stretch up the strong side. Nope.

    Recap of this play:

    Forward enters zone. Tries a useless toe drag. Gets stick lifted by a Defender with proper gap and positioning. A puck battle ensues. The defender stick lifts again. Gets himself in between the puck and the carrier. Attempts a final stick lift. The forward attempts to shove synchronously. We are told you cannot acquire possession on a shove. The forward apparently defies the information we were provided and gets the puck back. This is then debated. We are told you are wrong.

    Hmm.

    LOL. Exactly this!

    Thank you for understanding, ST.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 23
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    First I have him checked with my player near the boards. But he gets a pass through my skates. Then he gets stopped by not ONE, but TWO defenders in front of the net. His sticks goes through one set of skates to get control of the puck and then another set when he takes a shot, puck goes behind the goalie. I'm controlling the RD in that play (Red marker above head). And when Ovi gets the puck, I try to manually switch players. Which is why you see my DSS pointing up at first, and then to the side. But no line change comes. I don't even get a penalty as I've just noticed that my stick goes COMPLETELY across both his legs. And the forward gets rewarded for raking the puck through 2 players and still keeps 100% control and shot acc.

    He must've pressed the "amazing skill" button that I don't have on my controller.

    Or how about this one:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/110546665

    Watch how the puck moves just after he's taken a shot so that it goes AROUND my stick that's in place to block the shot. Watch how the goalie can't stop an open shot like that. That's the third time he's scored in the same fashion, skate in, wiggle, take a slapper, and the goalie deflects it into his own net. Meanwhile I'm out chancing him on the other end and I'm struggling to keep up with this clown. He's taken 12 random shots, no setup, no cycle, no skill. Just shoot an pray. And he's gotten 3 goals.

    "Skill gap"... LOL!
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    First I have him checked with my player near the boards. But he gets a pass through my skates. Then he gets stopped by not ONE, but TWO defenders in front of the net. His sticks goes through one set of skates to get control of the puck and then another set when he takes a shot, puck goes behind the goalie. I'm controlling the RD in that play (Red marker above head). And when Ovi gets the puck, I try to manually switch players. Which is why you see my DSS pointing up at first, and then to the side. But no line change comes. I don't even get a penalty as I've just noticed that my stick goes COMPLETELY across both his legs. And the forward gets reward for raking the puck through 2 players.

    He must've pressed the "amazing skill" button that I don't have on my controller.

    Or how about this one:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/110546665

    Watch how the puck moves just after he's taken a shot so that it goes AROUND my stick that's in place to block the shot. Watch how the goalie can't stop an open shot like that. That's the third time he's scored in the same fashion, skate in, wiggle, take a slapper, and the goalie deflects it into his own net. Meanwhile I'm out chancing him on the other end and I'm struggling to keep up with this clown. He's taken 12 random shots, no setup, no cycle, no skill. Just shoot an pray. And he's gotten 3 goals.

    "Skill gap"... LOL!

    But.. but.. but.. I thought the puck becomes lose when it goes through sticks and bodies?

    The stick going through legs just to keep the play alive is the most vomit inducing thing in NHL. Both slips are hilarious. Thanks for sharing, V.

    Also, without being able to have proper gap control, I expect the stick hold, wiggle, wiggle, shoot goals to be prime goals. Back to NHL 18 levels of wiggle goal.
  • Stovetop9620
    455 posts Member
    edited September 23
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    First I have him checked with my player near the boards. But he gets a pass through my skates. Then he gets stopped by not ONE, but TWO defenders in front of the net. His sticks goes through one set of skates to get control of the puck and then another set when he takes a shot, puck goes behind the goalie.

    He must've pressed the "amazing skill" button that I don't have on my controller.

    Or how about this one:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/110546665

    Watch how the puck moves just after he's taken a shot so that it goes AROUND my stick that's in place to block the shot. Watch how the goalie can't stop an open shot like that. That's the third time he's scored in the same fashion, skate in, wiggle, take a slapper, and the goalie deflects it into his own net. Meanwhile I'm out chancing him on the other end and I'm struggling to keep up with this clown. He's taken 12 random shots, no setup, no cycle, no skill. Just shoot an pray. And he's gotten 3 goals.

    "Skill gap"... LOL!

    No possession loss for skating into traffic. Draisaitl immediately turns from the play when the forward makes the pass. 3 defenders do nothing. He gets his shot through bodies. Your goaltender immediately drops to butterfly once the pass is thrown. He then scrambles and looks like an idiot. Scores.

    The response will be "Well, you should have got a tripping penalty". Or "You should have struggled to switch players and pick the guy who could stick lift" knowing that there is no way the switch player mechanic would have chosen the guy you needed anyway.

    That second one though...oh my.

    What more can possibly be asked of a defender there? Gap control is perfect. Stick in the lane. Goaltender can't catch an unscreened shot? This is NHL, right? NHL, like pro level hockey? You can do the Michigan but can't make a glove save from the perimeter unscreened? It should just be renamed. PeeWee 21. We wouldn't be able to complain about the proficiency of the players because they would be pretty on par with 14 year olds.

    Priorities.

    Actually, upon more thought. Venom, you are wrong. Comply. Hockey is nothing but goal scoring and the celly.
  • untouchable_BF1
    880 posts Member
    edited September 23
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    @TheMajjam

    Am I seeing your player skate between the puck and the forward while stick lifting here? A stick lift animation being confused for a shove? Am I also seeing the FORWARD as being the one who went for the shove?

    I am confused. It looks to me like the outcome should have been the goofball forward losing the puck?

    With further investigation here was the response:

    "I'm just noticing now that it looks like you tried to shove them at the last moment. That's not going to let you pick up the puck."

    But yet the forward gets instantaneous possession after he did, without a shadow of doubt, shove. Sooooo, shove doesn't let you pick up the puck...unless you are a forward. Then you can have it back with no questions asked. This play should have been dead after the dumb toe drag. It could have been dead further with the play in the circle and went for a stretch up the strong side. Nope.

    Recap of this play:

    Forward enters zone. Tries a useless toe drag. Gets stick lifted by a Defender with proper gap and positioning. A puck battle ensues. The defender stick lifts again. Gets himself in between the puck and the carrier. Attempts a final stick lift. The forward attempts to shove synchronously. We are told you cannot acquire possession on a shove. The forward apparently defies the information we were provided and gets the puck back. This is then debated. We are told you are wrong.

    Hmm.

    LOL. Exactly this!

    Thank you for understanding, ST.

    Anybody else LOL at the conclusion of this “disagreement” haha? I know I did. Majjam not only correctly defends his position, but actually proves the “feedback” incorrect as a player who just shoved gets the puck immediately after shoving. Don’t worry though defenders, just gotta “git gud” BAAAABBAAYYYY!!!

    “Skill gap! Echo chamber! All in our heads! We just don’t understand the game!”

    This clip right here proved any of those lines used over the past few years to be complete hogwash. I bet you weren’t expecting finding gold with this video dude, thanks for sharing!




    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    First I have him checked with my player near the boards. But he gets a pass through my skates. Then he gets stopped by not ONE, but TWO defenders in front of the net. His sticks goes through one set of skates to get control of the puck and then another set when he takes a shot, puck goes behind the goalie. I'm controlling the RD in that play (Red marker above head). And when Ovi gets the puck, I try to manually switch players. Which is why you see my DSS pointing up at first, and then to the side. But no line change comes. I don't even get a penalty as I've just noticed that my stick goes COMPLETELY across both his legs. And the forward gets rewarded for raking the puck through 2 players and still keeps 100% control and shot acc.

    He must've pressed the "amazing skill" button that I don't have on my controller.

    Or how about this one:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/110546665

    Watch how the puck moves just after he's taken a shot so that it goes AROUND my stick that's in place to block the shot. Watch how the goalie can't stop an open shot like that. That's the third time he's scored in the same fashion, skate in, wiggle, take a slapper, and the goalie deflects it into his own net. Meanwhile I'm out chancing him on the other end and I'm struggling to keep up with this clown. He's taken 12 random shots, no setup, no cycle, no skill. Just shoot an pray. And he's gotten 3 goals.

    "Skill gap"... LOL!

    Both clips hurt watching and it’s why I can’t play online anymore. It’s just not a consistent experience and trying to prove that a skill gap exists is nothing short of laughable. Like you wrote previously, how did you 1. Not trip Ovi 2. How did that “play” beat 3 defenders and 3. How does he even have the puck? How were the defenders out of position there lol?

    The second one is just dumb because if taking a slapshot outside the dots (especially considering the goalie was not required to move laterally nor was there a drop pass or anything that could’ve resulted in either his angle or depth not being where he’d like) is considered to be a “skilled” play, then there’s just no reason for me to play online (which I don’t) cause I completely disagree. I haven’t scored a straight slapshot like that too often in my offline goalies and I’ve played more than enough games, yet you go online and muffins like this go in routinely.

    The online meta does not promote skill nor does it consistently reward it. It certainly doesn’t reward hockey, nor does it even pretend to want to. Always good to see the “skill” arguments when discussing online NHL. Great comedic relief during this hard time.
  • Stovetop9620
    455 posts Member
    edited September 23
    1. Because the tripping/poke check stuff is far too complicated for the team to figure out and since it has been bad for years and they always have to double-down on their creation, they cannot back out or re-do it now. If they were to admit they were wrong then the skies will darken and the seas will boil.
    2. Because forcing passes and losing possession, skating into defenders and losing possession, and doing anything to hurt forwards "isn't fun for everyone".
    3. They were in position but, as you know, everything you know about hockey and how it correlates to this game is in reverse. They WOULD have made the play if they were skating around aimlessly trying to big hit Ovi.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Yeah that one give me serious headache. "no wonder he's name is the great 8."

    No, first just a little break from kuzy, then he throw away a pass into the middle whereon ovie shot through 700pounds of human flesh.

    That pass in to the center should be much harder to do, both to intercept and to get away with a clean shot.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 23
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Explain to me where the "skill gap" to the forward is in this play:

    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    First I have him checked with my player near the boards. But he gets a pass through my skates. Then he gets stopped by not ONE, but TWO defenders in front of the net. His sticks goes through one set of skates to get control of the puck and then another set when he takes a shot, puck goes behind the goalie.

    He must've pressed the "amazing skill" button that I don't have on my controller.

    Or how about this one:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/110546665

    Watch how the puck moves just after he's taken a shot so that it goes AROUND my stick that's in place to block the shot. Watch how the goalie can't stop an open shot like that. That's the third time he's scored in the same fashion, skate in, wiggle, take a slapper, and the goalie deflects it into his own net. Meanwhile I'm out chancing him on the other end and I'm struggling to keep up with this clown. He's taken 12 random shots, no setup, no cycle, no skill. Just shoot an pray. And he's gotten 3 goals.

    "Skill gap"... LOL!

    No possession loss for skating into traffic. Draisaitl immediately turns from the play when the forward makes the pass. 3 defenders do nothing. He gets his shot through bodies. Your goaltender immediately drops to butterfly once the pass is thrown. He then scrambles and looks like an idiot. Scores.

    The response will be "Well, you should have got a tripping penalty". Or "You should have struggled to switch players and pick the guy who could stick lift" knowing that there is no way the switch player mechanic would have chosen the guy you needed anyway.

    That second one though...oh my.

    What more can possibly be asked of a defender there? Gap control is perfect. Stick in the lane. Goaltender can't catch an unscreened shot? This is NHL, right? NHL, like pro level hockey? You can do the Michigan but can't make a glove save from the perimeter unscreened? It should just be renamed. PeeWee 21. We wouldn't be able to complain about the proficiency of the players because they would be pretty on par with 14 year olds.

    Priorities.

    Actually, upon more thought. Venom, you are wrong. Comply. Hockey is nothing but goal scoring and the celly.

    @Stovetop9620 @TheMajjam @untouchable_BF1 and @Sega82mega

    The sad part is that THIS is exactly what happens in NHL 21 too. Nothing has changed. That whole "gameplay breakdown" video where they tout that they fixed the AI? And the offense is better, the defense is better and the goalies are better? And how they wanna get rid of the "north-south" gameplay? It's just a lie...

    Skill gap? There was never any "skill" to gap in the first place. And there never will be or no one would ever play this game except... Well the people who know how to play hockey. So maybe, what? 10 of us all counted? LOL!

    Skill gap... What a joke!
  • KidShowtime1867
    1289 posts Member
    edited September 23
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.
  • What they don't understand is we have been here, mostly, for years wanting to love this game. None of us turn on our consoles and say "Welp, how can I hate this game today?" We make video petitions like Majjam did and get told we are wrong. I made a post 2 months ago with 18 videos that was viewed 1.4 thousand times and had 157 respondents without a single peep from anyone at EA. It showed a litany of stuff that could be addressed rather than clown gear and stupid moves that are completely unneeded.

    They wonder why we get so furious. Our frustrations are, apparently, our fault and are ignored. They then have these big marketing campaigns and feed the world lip-service about how much they care about their customers only to prove, by action, they really don't.

    We are the result of years of customer neglect, misinformation, and the slow destruction of a game that some of us have bought since 1992.

    My business partners and I currently hold the only patent in the world for our idea we hope is revolutionary. I swear before all of us that if this pans out successfully I will drop 7 figures, hire every single decent person from the old EA/2k crews, and make a game operating at a loss for a few years in hopes I could take them down or, at minimum, get them to get up off their rears and step up like we all KNOW they can.
  • My business partners and I currently hold the only patent in the world for our idea we hope is revolutionary. I swear before all of us that if this pans out successfully I will drop 7 figures, hire every single decent person from the old EA/2k crews, and make a game operating at a loss for a few years in hopes I could take them down or, at minimum, get them to get up off their rears and step up like we all KNOW they can.

    Thanks for the laughs. This is a good one. Right up there with people who threaten class actions against EA every year once they lose a HUT game.

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)

    Oh trust me, I know what happens after he's been told where he could've played the game better.

    Preparing myself for a lot of reading.
  • My business partners and I currently hold the only patent in the world for our idea we hope is revolutionary. I swear before all of us that if this pans out successfully I will drop 7 figures, hire every single decent person from the old EA/2k crews, and make a game operating at a loss for a few years in hopes I could take them down or, at minimum, get them to get up off their rears and step up like we all KNOW they can.

    Thanks for the laughs. This is a good one. Right up there with people who threaten class actions against EA every year once they lose a HUT game.

    Insult my opinions as you please (don't worry, I don't report people) but don't ever insult my dreams. I have spent the last year working my buns off with these people to try and break through and we think we are close to making it happen. Totally uncalled for especially considering I am not even close to lying about it.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)

    Oh trust me, I know what happens after he's been told where he could've played the game better.

    Preparing myself for a lot of reading.

    Hehe he's got a good heart and is fighting hard beacuse he loves the sport of hockey, like many of us do 😊
  • KidShowtime1867
    1289 posts Member
    edited September 23
    My business partners and I currently hold the only patent in the world for our idea we hope is revolutionary. I swear before all of us that if this pans out successfully I will drop 7 figures, hire every single decent person from the old EA/2k crews, and make a game operating at a loss for a few years in hopes I could take them down or, at minimum, get them to get up off their rears and step up like we all KNOW they can.

    Thanks for the laughs. This is a good one. Right up there with people who threaten class actions against EA every year once they lose a HUT game.

    Insult my opinions as you please (don't worry, I don't report people) but don't ever insult my dreams. I have spent the last year working my buns off with these people to try and break through and we think we are close to making it happen. Totally uncalled for especially considering I am not even close to lying about it.

    I'm not insulting you. I never said you were lying. You're bringing up an irrelevant patent in a discussion about a videogame.

    Can we get back on topic? I believe there's an off-topic section if you'd like to discuss your patent?
  • My business partners and I currently hold the only patent in the world for our idea we hope is revolutionary. I swear before all of us that if this pans out successfully I will drop 7 figures, hire every single decent person from the old EA/2k crews, and make a game operating at a loss for a few years in hopes I could take them down or, at minimum, get them to get up off their rears and step up like we all KNOW they can.

    Thanks for the laughs. This is a good one. Right up there with people who threaten class actions against EA every year once they lose a HUT game.

    Insult my opinions as you please (don't worry, I don't report people) but don't ever insult my dreams. I have spent the last year working my buns off with these people to try and break through and we think we are close to making it happen. Totally uncalled for especially considering I am not even close to lying about it.

    I'm not insulting you. I never said you were lying. You're bringing up an irrelevant patent in a discussion about a videogame.

    Can we get back on topic? I believe there's an off-topic section if you'd like to discuss your patent?

    Nah, we are good. I think it will be best if you are ignored. But thank you for the insight. I appreciate it.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 23
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)

    No, he's right. I did play it poorly initially having control of the RD and coasting back too much. I saw #29 barreling down and thought better put off switching to him because I know he's going to be more afraid of the AI possibly stealing the puck from him than if he's Human controlled. At that point, if he gets flustered, I have time to switch. But instead he passes through Draisaitl and now I HAVE to switch to one of the d-men in front of the net. Which I try, but the game doesn't give me the switch because it thinks the RD that I'm controlling is the better player to control and is closer to the puck.

    But that isn't even the actual issue with that play. Not that it stops our buddy Kory from trying to incite discord in a discussion by planting personal attacks.

    I'm am above such pedestrian trifles. Or he is many furlongs beneath me... Whichever tickles your fancy more. ;)
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)

    No, he's right. I did play it poorly initially having control of the RD and coasting back too much. I saw #29 barreling down and thought better of switching to him because I know he's going to be more afraid of the AI possibly stealing the puck from him than if he's Human controlled. At that point, if he gets flustered, I have time to switch. But instead he passes through Draisaitl and now I HAVE to switch to one of the d-men in front of the net. Which I try, but the game doesn't give me the switch because it thinks the RD that I'm controlling is the better player to control and is closer to the puck.

    But that isn't even the actual issue with that play. Not that it stops our buddy Kory from trying to incite discord in a discussion by planting personal attacks.

    I'm am above such pedestrian trifles. Or he is many furlongs beneath me... Whichever tickles your fancy more. ;)

    Plays like this are why people “skill zone” imo. That pass not shot should’ve ever gotten through/off. If you can’t trust your off-puck AI teammates, how can you possibly be expected to focus on on-puck defending? It’s ridiculous.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    FirmGrotesqueEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif

    Looks like you're still skill-zoning. Should've maybe switched defenders..

    But yea.. the A.I. is dead in the slot. Brutal to see.

    (Shhhh... Hehe don't push it, Venom is gasoline! 😉)

    No, he's right. I did play it poorly initially having control of the RD and coasting back too much. I saw #29 barreling down and thought better of switching to him because I know he's going to be more afraid of the AI possibly stealing the puck from him than if he's Human controlled. At that point, if he gets flustered, I have time to switch. But instead he passes through Draisaitl and now I HAVE to switch to one of the d-men in front of the net. Which I try, but the game doesn't give me the switch because it thinks the RD that I'm controlling is the better player to control and is closer to the puck.

    But that isn't even the actual issue with that play. Not that it stops our buddy Kory from trying to incite discord in a discussion by planting personal attacks.

    I'm am above such pedestrian trifles. Or he is many furlongs beneath me... Whichever tickles your fancy more. ;)

    Differing opinions does not equal personal attacks. Stop trying to get me banned lmao
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