EA Forums - Banner

Let's Talk: Reddit AMA with Ben Ross

Prev1
EA_Aljo
1747 posts EA Community Manager
edited September 24
Hello, everyone. Last week, Lead Gameplay Producer Ben Ross hosted a Reddit AMA here. For this week's Let's Talk, feel free to discuss his responses and provide further feedback. @IceLion68 had started a response thread so I merged it here. Thanks!

Replies

  • I wanted to discuss the stuff that came out of this specifically.

    Just pulling out a few of my faves.

    For the love of god, if you quote this, PLEASE edit the quoted bits down to the part you're actually commenting on?


    RE: Defensive actions
    We have made improvements to collision detection and our rules around stick on stick contact. So you will see less stick on stick contact generating puck loss when it happens from behind a player such as between their legs or if the stick is in the air and happens to make incidental stick contact which chasing them. This will mean it will take more manual stick play when defending from behind a player which has penalty consequences and won't be seen from the ai in modes where they don't perform defensive actions.

    Have AI offside mechanics been improved?
    Yes, this is something that falls under our core ai improvements. We want them to be able to hit the line with speed and be there to support you on the rush but that can also lead to aggressive behavior or avoidance that puts them offside.

    We definitely put work into this area as part of our avoidance and rush ai work this year to improve it along with our other changes.

    We had a general improvement this year for player avoidance that helps these scenarios [AI getting back onside]. Due to the high fidelity of our physics systems, you will sometimes see players get caught up with each other as they are all fighting for space but their general avoidance improvements should help this a lot from what was seen last year.

    Any updates to player switching?
    We haven't made any major changes to player switching. The contextual logic being set will always have scenarios that some want it to be more aggressive or more conservative but our goal was to give you the player that has the best chance to make a play on the puck carrier while still understanding cutting off paths to the net as well and then we offer manual switch as a mechanic for those that want full control.

    In future, I would like to give players a slider to control if they want the contextual switch to be more or less aggressive (ie closest to puck carrier vs considering being goal side but maybe further back) which may open up some tuning for players. But once you get into customization, there may be a lot more we can do there in the future.

    Why is it that when I pin somone to the boards my AI sits back and doesn't try to get the puck? And if I switch player then it stops pinning the player to the boards?
    Not sure of all the reasons that led to the ai being too conservative when pucks were pinned but we have improved ai puck support in boardplay this year. You should feel better support from your teammates and we also made some fixes to digs out of boardplay and how pucks can be kicked out as well.

    (1) How has gameplay been tweaked since the technical test? Specifically: (i) has the team addressed the overly high success rate with force passes (and defenders not picking up passes despite being in good position); and (ii) have defender turning speed been addressed, I know a lot of people complained about the slow turning speed leaving open countless odd man rushes.

    (2) Are there any plans to add more offense/defence/neutral zone strategies? We've seen the same strategies for years now.
    1 - We took a good look at the game balance callouts from the community during the technical test and did a lot of testing on our side. With specific interest were the callouts around interceptions as there wasn't an intended difference there from 20. In our testing on latest, it is behaving as expected but we have looked at some tuning around the awareness models for how wide of an angle a player is aware of incoming pucks relative to their defensive awareness attributes to see if some of the tuning was too harsh but again this would be to tune from where it was in 20 as well, not something that was new for 21 in the technical test. The reaction times were all the same as well relative to what they were in 20 after the patch to balance interceptions.

    On the skating side, the change to accelerate to your 180 was by design. Players in the past could start accelerating before they should have been able to which is why players could recover unrealistically when caught flat footed at times. We believe that this will be a good skill gap in the game and that as players get more hands on time, they will adapt to the differences and it will make the overall game more realistic as well as separate the skill of defenders even more. Since the technical test, we have made further improvements to the ai as well as changed how their decisions to pivot work which also drives auto backskate so that will be much better but those that control their pivots manually will have even more control in that regard.



    2 - For this year, we improved a lot of the ai behavior inside the current strategies but we haven't added new strategies.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Part 2

    Is the bug when you drop the gloves and other doesn't fixed so they both aren't gone for the whole game when getting two minute minors for unsportmanlike conduct?

    Is skillzoning still the go to when playing defence? Pls say this is finally fully gone

    Can I finally make a one touch slap pass. And can it be given slower, so that the receiving player can handle the puck instead of always tipping it?
    This was called out earlier this year for our QV team to test on latest with all of the improvements this year and it wasn't reproduced so I can't guarantee it is gone but we haven't see it happen this year in testing.

    Our intention is for there to be a skill gap on offense and defense and for the players to impact the outcome of the game but both players play on both sides of the puck so the skill gap is the game as a whole regardless. I personally feel that it is up to the offense to drive the play and drive urgency from the defense.

    We haven't updated the slap pass mechanic this year. You can one touch pass as you could before but right now, the slap pass mechanic is for redirects on net as opposed to just fake shots to passes. If you want to do a fake slap shot to a pass, you need to let go of the right stick before pressing pass.

    Will the lacrosse goal be impossible to even slightly attempt as it was in the technical test? (LOLz)
    For the lacrosse move(s) we built a new control mechanic that many won't be familiar with yet relative to any other mechanics in the game. It was designed to be a difficult twitch skill. For those that were having trouble moving the puck at all, it is likely that they aren't used to controlling the speed of rotation of their right stick and didn't find that range. For those that got it going but lost it often, they need to work on their control and consistency.

    For toe drags, we just require you to do the gesture but for these moves, the speed at which you rotate the stick matters. Too fast or too slow, you will lose the puck and if you are outside that threshold from the start, you won't keep the puck on your blade at all.

    The better the player you are performing the move with and the slower they are moving to start, the bigger the tolerance of the threshold.

    That said, from our experience, even when you get the hang of it, it isn't easy and will be tougher in a game situation where you need to pull it off quickly and stay in that level of control.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Part 3

    Any changes to penalties? Especially in regards to tripping and interference?
    We have continued to make improvements to the core pokecheck mechanics and tripping penalty logic as well. The pokechecks themselves have an increased min and max range and are much more reliable. Player attributes and context still weigh in so you are at your best in control and poking directly in front of your player with a skilled defender than you are poking against your momentum behind you with a lower skilled defender where you would be more inaccurate. It is also important to time your poke so that the future position of the puck is consistent.

    For the tripping logic, we added to the concept of tolerance of your stick blade hitting the skates from the front of the puck carrier. This now isn't just the front of that player but the front of where they are moving so if they pivot to a backskate a poke into their skates with just your stick blade (showing you are in good position and have a good gap and aren't making contact that would easily cause a trip) they won't fall.

    We have also done a lot of work to identify the forceful frames of the poke itself to more reliably know when you are blending into the action or blending out with the intention being that you will only see a player trip if you make contact with them during the forceful frames of the pokecheck.

    For interference, we have made improvements to both player and goalie interference. These rules in real life can be subjective at times but we feel our overall logic is much tighter and we are always listening to the community to understand edge cases.

    We have seen Madden and FIFA have attribute "triggers" which allows them to do certain animations. Ex: Only 92 Catching can do _____ animation.

    It has a huge effect on the gameplay, are these in NHL at all?
    No, we don't really have thresholds for specific animations. We do however want every attribute point to matter so build the logic within the mechanics where each point will have an impact on the models and how that influences ability/error as they get weighed in with the other physical factors in the models.

    Is the AI able to realize there is a net in their own zone yet? Or will they continue to keep skating into it? (LOL)
    We worked on both net avoidance and ai puck carrier logic that have improved their decision making with the puck in and around their net and how they can use the space below the goal line.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 18
    Part 4

    Has the invisible wall at the goal line been addressed to allow for players to tap the puck over the goal line instead of continually watching stick blades go through the puck while the puck stays glued to the goal line?
    We have fixed a few rare bugs and adjusted logic around pickups near the goal line that should improve those scenarios.

    For defensive players in 20, we forced them to drop the puck at the goal line as if they were tapping the puck back rather than carrying it over the line. This didn't have them score on themselves but left the puck in a vulnerable location and they could end up in that state over and over. This year, we have improved their ability to pickup the puck and pull it away from the goal line to help with their possession and getting the puck cleared.

    For offensive players, there were times where a pickup would collect the puck and pull it away from the goal line before a player initiated a shot and they may also have their stick hit the post causing them to lose the puck after the frame the puck started to move away from the net. This year, instead of picking up, the player is meant to just tap the puck in to the net which should improve those cases.

    Lastly, there were cases where a puck release frame on a shot could happen between the shot target location and the goal line before it crossed the line into the net. If it crossed the line in possession on offense in control, the player would drop the puck and it would keep its current speed into the net. However, in these rare cases if the shot target ended up behind the puck, it was possible for the shot to falsely go backwards. The reason the target is out from the goal line at all is to account for sharp angle shots to the near side of the net so that you aren't just shooting at the outside of the near post. A change was made to account for this when the release point is between the posts near the goal line so we are hoping to not see any more rare cases like that this year.

    One of my biggest issues is with the amount of goalie “interference”. Is anything going to be different in this regard?
    We have improved goalie interference logic both in cases that should have been called as well as cases that were called that shouldn't have been.

    Don’t let hitting lt and skating backwards into the offensive zone be so easy to not lose the puck.
    We have made changes to pivot ability with the puck, especially at speed. We have also made adjustments to your balance and ability to take a hit when pivoting and backskating at speed as well.

    Will there ever be any changes to the pace of online gameplay? I find it so frustrating to constantly have play halted, and be forced to look at the same exact shot of the crowd/trees/helicopter over and over and over. Why can’t this time be utilized by a quick and instant replay of what just happened. I only play eashl and games take so long and I hate that it’s 60% gameplay, 40% waiting for stoppages in play
    This is more of a presentation question but will answer based on what I know. In the past, we did show more replays and then had fade to black transitions if we were just passing time more quickly. Last year, they actually attempted to speed things up but used a sync script for online play that ended up running each time they wanted a quick transition even if it wasn't needed. These are the environment shots you were seeing.

    This year, they added a fade to black back so in those cases it should transition quicker to the next faceoff when they just want to pass time quickly and don't intend to show a replay, etc.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 18
    Part 5

    Can you dump the puck in without it going over the glass 8 time out of 10?
    We are still looking at tuning around this but it is something we had on our list to make more viable this year from more areas of the ice between center and the blueline to multiple angles so that along with the pivot to accel changes dump and chase would open up even more.

    How have AI defensemen improved especially in threes?
    We have worked on the differences between our most passive/conservative strategies to our most aggressive ones.

    This gives players more control to get their defenders to play back and more conservative if you set those strategies.

    However, we do expect 3v3 gameplay to play differently and originally built the offenses around filling in for each other more so they can remain active and support each other rather than feeling like one or two players alone on offense.

    This means that you really have to treat your ai teammate, even when playing defense as you would another human player and expect to switch with them and support them to have the most success.

    We definitely heard the callout though that the conservative strategies were still too aggressive and that is why we did work on their breakouts, rush and offensive zone logic to make them want to hang back more and keep bigger gaps relative to their more aggressive strategies. So make sure to play around with the strategies to get the most out of your ai teammates.

    Will AI goalies be more aware of cross crease plays and seeing the same move over and over again (skating to the boards and then skating across the goalie on breakaways/Penalty shots
    AI goalie awareness and adapting is an interesting topic. Our goal for goalies is that they should be trying to stop the best chances on net and should also be reading and reacting to what they see in front of them. So based on their teams support, where offensive players are, if the player is skating fast or settled in a glide, on their forehand or backhand, etc. there are a lot of things for them to consider to setup for how much they challenge, etc.

    For something like certain breakaway moves that don't feel as earned, we always look to see if we can do a better job and this year we have improved their ability to read a player in a breakaway or penalty shot scenario that is committed to cutting across so they can play it better and take away the far side once they know they can't cut back short side.

    However, other than breakaways, where they are alone, we are more likely to have them challenge the shooter and leave a pass option to the defense rather than cheat over too much and give up an easy short side goal.

    Goalie ai is always something we will be looking to improve though and I believe it is one of the most difficult things to get right as they still need to fallible but in realistic ways and that is why the models are built the way they are around what you need to do to get the goalie moving or committing before making them move or react against their momentum and then minimizing their vision and reaction time and other elements that cause goalies to make mistakes in organic and realistic ways.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Part 6

    What’s been done to promote active defense and not skill zoning? Will the CPU take penalties like they did in the technical test or will guys be rewarded for not switching to their defenseman?
    This is a topic that could probably have a much longer discussion as there are multiple factors at play. We are still keeping the settings for online modes where when players play unlocked that the ai won't perform defensive actions against the puck carrier (ie stick lift, body check, pokecheck, etc.).

    It is arguable as a team sport where you can have multiple players active against a single puck carrier when you contain them if that is a good thing but to increase the skill gap and put more on the Player in control to be responsible for getting the puck back, it was something we tried and feel was successful when watching games played. Yet even with that, the skillzone callouts remain.

    I still believe it is up to the offense to drive the play and force the defense to play active and if you are losing the puck to an ai that can't perform defensive actions, it is the fault of the offensive player even if it isn't the skill of the defensive player in that exact scenario. But even that is arguable as it may have been a play of the Player in control that caused you to retreat into another defensive teammate.

    From watching competitive games, the best players are playing a lot of active defense and the better offensive players demand that of them.

    We also see players play passive trapping defense themselves and then come up against a setup defense when they turn the puck over and get an offensive chance themselves. As you know, more active and aggressive play on defensive can result in more breakdowns, turnovers and odd man rushes the other way and the less you let your opponent setup, the less you run into systems that are setup to contain you as a team.

    Currently in 20, the AI bumps you and turns over the puck. Are you saying that it is changed for 21, or remains the same as 20?
    The incidental physics of players running into each other will still act as it does but the ai won't actually throw hits against a puck carrier. They will always physically exist on the ice, they just aren't actively throwing hits or performing other defensive actions.

    I've seen the AI perform stick lifts a bunch in HUT online. But you're saying they don't do that?
    The ai still physically exist. Their stick will generate stick on stick incidental puck loss like stick on their body will but they won't perform a defensive action such as a stick lift, poke, body check or board pin, etc.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega
    1594 posts Member
    edited September 18
    I would like to hear how people define skillzoning?

    I think this concept is lead by a big misunderstanding.

    I was playing a guy that refused to make a move anywhere near my net, I keept my controlled player in steady motion in the center around my goalie, to cut him off and to keep him on the outside, and all he was waiting for was for me to give up position so he could go short side or 1timer.

    After the game a got a message that I was skillzoning, when all I did was playing D without getting fooled.

    So if thats skillzoning you might just as well give up the concept of getting a smarter AI, cause thats whats very many looking for, to exploit AI and go for a cheese. And if they dont, they blame you for skillzoning....
  • Part 7

    Will there ever be a attempt from EA for a sim hockey game ? The game seemingly goes deeper and deeper into a arcadey goal scoring frenzy to appease 12 yr old timmy every year.
    It all depends what modes you are playing and what settings you are using. When the NHL shutdown this year and there was an appetite for virtual hockey, I had created a simulation slider set for 10 minute periods that was possibly going to be used to stream ai vs ai gameplay. The various scores ranged from 0-1 OT to 3-2 to 6-1 and multiple scores in between in the test games I did with total shots around 60 between the two teams, with 2-3 PPs per team. Others online have various settings for different period lengths.

    In Online VS play, since we have things setup for 4 minute periods, the game is ultimately tighter and more forgiving than a full sim slider set but it is still intended to play as a simulation with all pieces balanced against each other. We still see lots of shutouts with these settings but it all depends on the teams playing and the level of defense.

    In the technical test there seemed to be a greater emphasis on gap control for d-men in WOC, which I felt was great. Can we expect this to continue in 21 or will this be tuned differently?
    Yes, this was a goal for 21. Previously accelerating to your 180, behind you, was primarily the same as accelerating to your 0, in front of you. This obviously isn't correct and why gap control, decisions on when to pivot and getting caught flat footed are such a big part of hockey and a big skill gap for defenders.

    From the community, we often hear requests to increase speed but when we get into the details, it is more about players being able to retain a step they have gained or that they felt trap systems are too strong.

    So when we broke that down, we knew skating speed itself wasn't really the main factor but it was more the acceleration, especially by scenario that mattered and needed more differentiation.

    So you will see a bigger skill gap in players that pivot at the correct time, manage their gaps properly, angle players properly by using their body and their stick well, etc.

    It will also along with with the new dekes open up more options for the offense against trapping teams to use speed through the neutral zone and make dumping the puck even more viable due to the steps you can gain during those pivots, especially if you catch them late to respond.

    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 18
    Part 8

    Why is offense given so many new tools while defense is always left behind?
    This is a subjective view as I have others come to me and talk about how overpowered defense is. Our goal is to have a balanced game that gives players as much control as possible on both sides of the puck. Good defense is a little less flashy so can see how it can be seen that way when it comes to promotional material. We have spent time this year improving pokechecking, hit tracking, penalty logic, etc. that are improvements on the defensive side of the puck.


    Why should we trust that any changes you make wont be reverted again after release when one of the streamers complains?
    We always assess the overall balance of our game against our original goals. We listen to what players are saying and we watch a lot of games being played but we don't design by committee. Any changes we make post launch are to address bugs or to change something that wasn't behaving the way we expected or in some cases we wanted to see how things played in the competitive space for a while before making a final call despite having some hunches on how it may play out. Last year was an example of waiting a longer time before considering tuning so we could let the game settle and the goal would be the same this year as we need players to adapt to the new game before we can really see how things are playing out.

    Why do i have players with 99 speed being caught from behind by 70 overall players in the very first shift of the game?
    This could be multiple things. We know that our attributes work correctly so it could be the direct line taken, how quickly one player actually starts and gets accelerating over the other or that the player in front starts to deke or turn to make a move on the goalie while the player from behind is still hustling full speed in a straight line.

    I the real world, the player behind doesn't usually skate full speed at all costs into their own goalie where it would risk injury but in our game, it happens, so sometimes a few last steps are cut down that we don't usually see on the actual ice.

    We also see the players start to adjust their angles early rather than work on getting as big a gap as possible first by accelerating in a straight line with hustle, pushing the puck forward first. This usually has the biggest impact because hustle itself negates the 'with puck' penalty to your skating. It isn't a big influence but enough that it is worth hustling hard to get that gap before you start to glide or think about a move on the goalie.

    The other factor is the piece we added this year where a player pivoting wasn't as realistically accountable for their pivot before they could start to actually accelerate.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Part 9

    Why are you guys insistent on this arcadey style of play over any semblance or real hockey?
    Our game offers everything from Arcade to Full Sim. However, for online, the general consensus has been that players want shorter periods where they can play more games and more opponents in a sitting. Our online default game style of Competitive leans more to the sim side, especially for what may make sense for 4 minute periods but has been the best balance. Full Sim settings or some of the custom slider settings we have tweaked can play a very simulation game of hockey but usually needs closer to 10 minute periods and wouldn't be something the majority would be interested in. As far as subjective opinion from where we are right now, we hear more people asking for adjustments that would be seen as more arcade in your eyes (turning off incidental contact, increasing deking abiliy, increasing speed, less impact for shoving players off the puck, etc.) than we do asking for it to be more sim.

    Why have the goalies remained so terrible this entire gen after littman left?
    Although we have learned plenty of things along the way, our design philosophy around models that are trying to replicate the physical and awareness factors we see/extract from the real world sport remain the same. So its better to have shooters settled and in control than it is to rush shots for their shot ability but it is also better to not let a goalie settle or have more reaction time. Disrupt their vision, get them moving, going back against their momentum, etc. these are all things we can all probably agree in theory are impacts to a goalie and what drive their ability to stop the puck or not. And over the years we have added a lot of new abilities for goalies beyond what they could do in the past such as their ability to take away space and play a more blocking style even if they can't react in time, to control rebounds better with controlled saves that they can hang on to and smother as well as direct pucks to the corner better for rebound control.

    However, we have also made changes such as the puck collision volume being a realistic size and not allowing teammates to just drag the puck over the goal line in control and not count as a goal like it could in earlier versions of the game. So as things get more realistic there are more pieces of accountability over those impacts. So fully get that there will always be room for us to improve tough positions like goalies but it gets a lot deeper into the details before you can really compare their ability.

    Will the one handed tuck be an automatic goal? It will goalies actually be able to defend against it this year? Probably the most frustrating play in the game
    We have rebalanced the one hand tuck to be more about the skill of the player performing the move and the timing/how smooth you perform the move. This change along with improvements to goalies should put this move into the right spot balance wise.

    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Skill Zoning huh? Is that the new word for playing defense? Apparently to some morons defense is a bad thing. Seems fair, I watched the GWC and this would line up nicely with the values exhibited in that event.
  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 24
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    (1) How has gameplay been tweaked since the technical test? Specifically: (i) has the team addressed the overly high success rate with force passes (and defenders not picking up passes despite being in good position); and (ii) have defender turning speed been addressed, I know a lot of people complained about the slow turning speed leaving open countless odd man rushes.
    1 - We took a good look at the game balance callouts from the community during the technical test and did a lot of testing on our side. With specific interest were the callouts around interceptions as there wasn't an intended difference there from 20. In our testing on latest, it is behaving as expected but we have looked at some tuning around the awareness models for how wide of an angle a player is aware of incoming pucks relative to their defensive awareness attributes to see if some of the tuning was too harsh but again this would be to tune from where it was in 20 as well, not something that was new for 21 in the technical test. The reaction times were all the same as well relative to what they were in 20 after the patch to balance interceptions.
    On the skating side, the change to accelerate to your 180 was by design. Players in the past could start accelerating before they should have been able to which is why players could recover unrealistically when caught flat footed at times. We believe that this will be a good skill gap in the game and that as players get more hands on time, they will adapt to the differences and it will make the overall game more realistic as well as separate the skill of defenders even more. Since the technical test, we have made further improvements to the ai as well as changed how their decisions to pivot work which also drives auto backskate so that will be much better but those that control their pivots manually will have even more control in that regard..
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    In the technical test there seemed to be a greater emphasis on gap control for d-men in WOC, which I felt was great. Can we expect this to continue in 21 or will this be tuned differently?
    Yes, this was a goal for 21. Previously accelerating to your 180, behind you, was primarily the same as accelerating to your 0, in front of you. This obviously isn't correct and why gap control, decisions on when to pivot and getting caught flat footed are such a big part of hockey and a big skill gap for defenders.

    From the community, we often hear requests to increase speed but when we get into the details, it is more about players being able to retain a step they have gained or that they felt trap systems are too strong.

    So when we broke that down, we knew skating speed itself wasn't really the main factor but it was more the acceleration, especially by scenario that mattered and needed more differentiation.

    So you will see a bigger skill gap in players that pivot at the correct time, manage their gaps properly, angle players properly by using their body and their stick well, etc.

    It will also along with with the new dekes open up more options for the offense against trapping teams to use speed through the neutral zone and make dumping the puck even more viable due to the steps you can gain during those pivots, especially if you catch them late to respond.


    The bolded bit notwithstanding, I must say this is not very encouraging. So basically this is by design and EA is telling us to "suck it up". I am all for creating skill gap, but the problem here is that they only seem to be doing it on the DEFENSIVE side of the game. They do not seem to do anything to create skill gap for forwards. Unless you count rewarding players EVEN MORE for being able to pull off all the crazy offensive tools - nothing to punish forwards who make bad decisions.

    EA to defensemen: "You need to time and aim your poke check/ stick lift/body check better. Oh and manage your gap control better... hmmm? oh no, no new tools... oh btw did we mention you can manually control pivots?! Cool huh?"

    Meanwhile:

    EA to forwards: "Hey forwards look at all the neat new ways to beat 'flat footed defenders' and score".

    It's disheartening and quite a slap in the face.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »

    Any changes to penalties? Especially in regards to tripping and interference?
    We have continued to make improvements to the core pokecheck mechanics and tripping penalty logic as well. The pokechecks themselves have an increased min and max range and are much more reliable. Player attributes and context still weigh in so you are at your best in control and poking directly in front of your player with a skilled defender than you are poking against your momentum behind you with a lower skilled defender where you would be more inaccurate. It is also important to time your poke so that the future position of the puck is consistent.

    For the tripping logic, we added to the concept of tolerance of your stick blade hitting the skates from the front of the puck carrier. This now isn't just the front of that player but the front of where they are moving so if they pivot to a backskate a poke into their skates with just your stick blade (showing you are in good position and have a good gap and aren't making contact that would easily cause a trip) they won't fall.

    We have also done a lot of work to identify the forceful frames of the poke itself to more reliably know when you are blending into the action or blending out with the intention being that you will only see a player trip if you make contact with them during the forceful frames of the pokecheck.

    For interference, we have made improvements to both player and goalie interference. These rules in real life can be subjective at times but we feel our overall logic is much tighter and we are always listening to the community to understand edge cases.

    I like the sounds of this... a lot... curious to see how it plays out in the game.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Oslik1000
    456 posts Member
    edited September 24
    Hi Ben!
    I again found the same mistake in the hut video: the defenders are not defended by a hockey stick - my new topic you can read

    please explain us Ben how it can be done at full version of this game. I am very disapointment from the HUT video showed me this bug "no hockey stick intervene against move of offensive player" again the same as nhl18,nhl19,nhl20


    thank you Ben

    edit:
    Ben, it's very difficult and without motivation when I finally manage to set the game, but the defenders with hockey sticks do nothing when I have a puck on the hockey stick and I go 10 centimeters next to the defender. It is very difficult to play the game with the knowledge that this basic thing because hockey is called hockey just does not work ....
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Hello, everyone. Last week, Lead Gameplay Producer Ben Ross hosted a Reddit AMA here. For this week's Let's Talk, feel free to discuss his responses and provide further feedback. @IceLion68 had started a response thread so I merged it here. Thanks!

    I like the concept. After such a big revealing there's always questions. It was very interesting to read what Ben has to say, after all, hes a big influencer of the game and whats on hes mind interest me, I understand if everything that he says can be difficult to get the right side of, but I like the idea he has about the game.

    Continue to keep us, the community close, and we will continue to provide you with our opinions. Together! 💪

    Keep up!
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I would like to hear how people define skillzoning?

    I think this concept is lead by a big misunderstanding.

    I was playing a guy that refused to make a move anywhere near my net, I keept my controlled player in steady motion in the center around my goalie, to cut him off and to keep him on the outside, and all he was waiting for was for me to give up position so he could go short side or 1timer.

    After the game a got a message that I was skillzoning, when all I did was playing D without getting fooled.

    So if thats skillzoning you might just as well give up the concept of getting a smarter AI, cause thats whats very many looking for, to exploit AI and go for a cheese. And if they dont, they blame you for skillzoning....

    Yeah I don't think that's right because you almost have to switch to the front of the net or else the CPU will chase away and leave the cross crease open.

    It's annoying to me when my opponent switches off the defender when the defender is the only guy back and I'm entering the zone. I think of that as "skillzoning." In those rushes, if you're controlling anyone other than the lone guy back, you're being cheap. But once we're in the zone, I think controlling the players off the puck is okay, and even necessary at times.
  • 32Doak wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I would like to hear how people define skillzoning?

    I think this concept is lead by a big misunderstanding.

    I was playing a guy that refused to make a move anywhere near my net, I keept my controlled player in steady motion in the center around my goalie, to cut him off and to keep him on the outside, and all he was waiting for was for me to give up position so he could go short side or 1timer.

    After the game a got a message that I was skillzoning, when all I did was playing D without getting fooled.

    So if thats skillzoning you might just as well give up the concept of getting a smarter AI, cause thats whats very many looking for, to exploit AI and go for a cheese. And if they dont, they blame you for skillzoning....

    Yeah I don't think that's right because you almost have to switch to the front of the net or else the CPU will chase away and leave the cross crease open.

    It's annoying to me when my opponent switches off the defender when the defender is the only guy back and I'm entering the zone. I think of that as "skillzoning." In those rushes, if you're controlling anyone other than the lone guy back, you're being cheap. But once we're in the zone, I think controlling the players off the puck is okay, and even necessary at times.

    You can call it cheap or whatever you want but if it works for them it works. Everything is cheap if someone finds it to be because they don't do it. And more than ever this year the CPU will get abused in 1 on 1 situations.

  • This right here caught my interest:

    "We don't currently have plans for anything related to momentum in the game. It is definitely a big topic around sports psychology in terms to the impacts of home ice advantage, a coach taking a well timed time out, etc. and could theoretically be attempted in a model but so far, we have let the Players personal psyche and how they play in response to certain situations do that work for us and have built mechanics where being collected/patient and in control vs rushing things have an impact in the error models and feel that watching competitive games online that this does weigh into outcomes where Players buckle under pressure, etc.."

    The part where Ben mentions that models were built that try to simulate a lack of composure which affect the game... Is this a real thing already in the game? In NHL 20??

    I play a pretty aggressive, almost frantic style and I feel like I have the worst luck. But I'd rather be unlucky here than to know that all along there's been some kind of subliminal scale, a tainted tuner, a malevolent modifier(!) mistaking my well-placed poke checks and Johnny-on-the-spot reactions for a lack of composure just because I take amphetamines daily.
  • 32Doak wrote: »
    This right here caught my interest:

    "We don't currently have plans for anything related to momentum in the game. It is definitely a big topic around sports psychology in terms to the impacts of home ice advantage, a coach taking a well timed time out, etc. and could theoretically be attempted in a model but so far, we have let the Players personal psyche and how they play in response to certain situations do that work for us and have built mechanics where being collected/patient and in control vs rushing things have an impact in the error models and feel that watching competitive games online that this does weigh into outcomes where Players buckle under pressure, etc.."

    The part where Ben mentions that models were built that try to simulate a lack of composure which affect the game... Is this a real thing already in the game? In NHL 20??

    I play a pretty aggressive, almost frantic style and I feel like I have the worst luck. But I'd rather be unlucky here than to know that all along there's been some kind of subliminal scale, a tainted tuner, a malevolent modifier(!) mistaking my well-placed poke checks and Johnny-on-the-spot reactions for a lack of composure just because I take amphetamines daily.

    I take it as wild swings and getting yourself out of position will affect the rest of your team in positioning and such. Where a composed state allows for the best chance at success getting a poke, sticklift, or hit. Also your AI should be in somewhat better positioning too. But if you venture off from your supposed position the AI might try to cover you and that is why you see 2 AI dmen at times on the same side.

    It's an answer that can be read different ways imo.

  • 32Doak wrote: »
    This right here caught my interest:

    "We don't currently have plans for anything related to momentum in the game. It is definitely a big topic around sports psychology in terms to the impacts of home ice advantage, a coach taking a well timed time out, etc. and could theoretically be attempted in a model but so far, we have let the Players personal psyche and how they play in response to certain situations do that work for us and have built mechanics where being collected/patient and in control vs rushing things have an impact in the error models and feel that watching competitive games online that this does weigh into outcomes where Players buckle under pressure, etc.."

    The part where Ben mentions that models were built that try to simulate a lack of composure which affect the game... Is this a real thing already in the game? In NHL 20??

    I play a pretty aggressive, almost frantic style and I feel like I have the worst luck. But I'd rather be unlucky here than to know that all along there's been some kind of subliminal scale, a tainted tuner, a malevolent modifier(!) mistaking my well-placed poke checks and Johnny-on-the-spot reactions for a lack of composure just because I take amphetamines daily.

    I happen to know you suffer from big lag, and even how much I hate to say this, lag can really turn your luck in to unluck in a dime, I like to gamble alot, try nice plays, with high risk, games where a have a steady connection, I play superb, and if I don't, same guy can tear me apart, just by playing the same way many other's do, simpel and straight at the net, with some turns up and down here and there.

    Its small margins between success or fiasco, just like real hockey, but unfortunately it's more about connection in this case.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!