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EA WAKE UP!!! Customers aren't happy!

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  • Of course - this would depend heavily on an intuitive UI that allows you to provide these positive ratings in a post-game screen - maybe the player summary.
  • Defenetly worth a try, in my opinion. Sounds pretty bulletproof.
  • B_Bunny wrote: »
    No offense, but you don't have their sales numbers so you have no idea if they were declining or growing. I can say when I was in the offices a few years ago, they presented their actual sales numbers each year. They certainly weren't declining; if anything they were stagnant. The same people buy the game every year. If you look back the last few years, you can see they made a decision to try and reach another audience that hasn't been buying the game every year. The introduction of 3's, 1's, arcade modes etc. You don't need to search that many years back to find that people were complaining the game was too realistic and not fun. People made comments such as "It's a video game, you guys need to make it more fun again. It's not supposed to resemble real life 1:1. I want to have fun playing videogame hockey."

    What's this all mean? The customers aren't always right. The customers don't know what they want until you give it to them. And they will never please everyone because everyone has a different definition of what videogame hockey is and should be. I've been around long enough on the forums to see the pendulum swing to the extreme on both sides. They need, and I think have a solid middleground. Can there be improvements? Yes, always.

    But if you don't like the game or the direction it's going; don't support it. Or buy it used.
    Well it certainly *feels* like numbers have declined but I guess maybe that is due to the fact that literally one or two people I know that played this game in 2014 still do.

    I am not sure if "the same people buy the game every year" or if they are simply losing EASHL players and gaining arcade twitch players for the new modes? Or maybe more people are playing offline modes or 3s or whatever and fewer people are playing EASHL?

    I sincerely hope that at some point EA figures out how to revive EASHL: clown gear and outdoor rinks aren't it. At least not for me or anyone I know. I am disinterested in playing anything else and it really does feel like EA is forsaking this old EASHL player base in favor of drawing new customers with shiny new arcade modes; "Rocket League on Ice". The game is beginning to resemble something that is not really hockey any more.

    I mean that is their prerogative but I don't think it will be a net positive. They will just continue to gain more arcade twitch players and bleed EASHL players I think. (shrugs)
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Regarding Player Ratings and Anti-Griefing/Trolling

    I made a detailed post about how I thought this could work:

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/comment/2144668#Comment_2144668

    The problem with a human-based rating system - and fundamentally I feel it doesn't matter if its positive or negative, more on that below tho - is that it WILL be abused or "gamed" by players. Same with vote to kick.

    Ultimately I think it needs to be calculated and the metrics for doing so SHOULD be relatively simple. The game already seems to do some of this work at least when it calculates ratings, coaching feedback and CR.

    The problem with positive rating as I see it is it's like customer service: few people go out of their way to leave a good review in the wake of a good experience, but froth at the mouth to leave a bad review when they have had a sub optimal experience.

    Not saying it couldn't work but you are working against human nature I think. At the end of the day though, the end result is the same no matter what spin you put on it.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • The moment you need to bring up 3rd party leagues as workaround to finding games is the moment you should realize club 6’s are dead. 3’s totally killed it and then add-in drop-in, drop-in 3’s, 3’ eliminator, and ones, there’s just not enough people who actually enjoy this product enough to sustain 7 game modes of single character-controlled modes alone.

    There’s absolutely no denying how small the online community feels, if not is, than old-gen games. No lobbies has killed the online experience, .

    This
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    B_Bunny wrote: »
    I've just learned customers (maybe gamers is a better term, unless you've ever worked in customer service) think they know what they want, until they get it.
    Jobs.jpg

    quote-you-can-t-just-ask-customers-what-they-want-and-then-try-to-give-that-to-them-by-the-steve-jobs-14-71-61.jpg

    Say what ever else you want about Steve Jobs, but he was a brilliant mind in this regard.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Why not then have different options. Like if players want an arcade type drop-in, then have that as a another mode away from indoor drop-in. I know a lot of us who want indoor drop-in and jersey selection back. As for the roster update thing! Exactly what has been done to make this game better since 2017? Adding outdoor hockey and 3's was something different. But other than that it took over 4 years to fix Be A Pro. Then we get the option to play indoor drop-in taken away when many of us cannot fathom to play outdoor drop-in when our club isn't around. Took me a my buddies 7 hours back in February to get 1 full drop-in and 3 hours for club. We eventually moved to a different game.

    Maybe I am not understanding but they already HAVE this option with the Eliminator modes. I have to say this is a game with far too many modes to play already.

    Eliminator Modes: Arcade style action, Outdoor Rinks, "Casual wear"
    CHEL: Indoor rinks, proper gear

    I think the death of lobbies plus the introduction of online 3s killed online 6s. But I don't know what can be done about it now. It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle. I play club 3s now because so few people play the game (and my captain is very finicky about who he/we play with) that there is only 2 people in my club. That said, EASHL 3s is actually fun. As a Dman it is nice to be able to contribute more offensively which is nigh impossible to do responsibly any more in 6s (and it looks even more grim in 21).

    But it also dilutes the player base. So if you remove it, I am not sure what happens? Some go to 3s Eliminator, some to 6s? I think improving the AI helps. I wouldnt mind playing 6s with AI if they were better. I could see getting rid of drop in 3s tbh. no easy way out tho.

    Sorry, random musings there...
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    kezz123 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Should have some kinda voting system, where you could rate your teammates for good or bad behavior. And a matchmaker that put together team with 'good behavior' and in descending order. So that good meets good and bad meets bad and everything in between.

    In theory, this sounds great, but people would unfairly get rated poorly. There would have to be a way to rate someone under certain conditions. Like, when the game detects poor teamplay or going AFK. Otherwise, you'd have people rating others poorly just because they lost to them.

    Not if you limited only being able to give players positive ratings, and then giving players badges for getting certain numbers of positive ratings.

    To be devil's advocate....you think about this as an adult playing other adults....but what about mom who bought nhl for her 10 year old kid and the kid doesnt play super well nor have a good team play understanding? We all know a lot of greedy kids who wont pass...its a learned behavior. So wouldnt all these kids end up getting terrible ratings?

    Its a good point, but if he's constant skating offside and is nowhere near to help the team, maybe he 'deserve' that grade, EA need to draw a line and cant see to everyone's best interest. Maybe this 10 year old could start of in a diffrent game mode to learn the hockey ground rules and then come back, as long as he dosent act like a fool and trying the best he can without getting in the way to much, I think hes rate would gradually be better and better.

    What he said. If you suck to play with - either by intention or ignorance - then you get relegated to playing with people who also suck. Check out my link in my above post about how I think you can separate those who play bad intentionally from those who lack understanding. It's an important distinction but I think that can be handled in game by kicking bad actors.

    I think the new rating system in 21 might help with it's tiers and such, but the sad reality is I am not sure if enough people play the game for it to make much of a difference.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.

  • No because you don't allow people to give negative ratings.

    Only positive ratings.

    Your goal as a player is to rack up positive ratings in order to get a badge that says you're a positive team-player.

    If you're a poor player - you simply don't get those badges. No negative icons or ratings... just a lack of badges representing numerous positive ratings.

    You simply leave the negativity out of it and only put a spotlight on the positives.

    I like this idea, but as I explained above, I think it's best to let the game figure this out, for the reasons I mentioned.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Oslik1000
    473 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    It sounds unbelievable but Electronics Arts drive meant success .... It's a company that showed the world System Shock 2! According to this game, all other action games are played today! Unbelievable, but it's true. However, it has been a long time ago, it was a completely different team of programmers with ideas than today .... it's a shame
  • IceLion68 wrote: »

    No because you don't allow people to give negative ratings.

    Only positive ratings.

    Your goal as a player is to rack up positive ratings in order to get a badge that says you're a positive team-player.

    If you're a poor player - you simply don't get those badges. No negative icons or ratings... just a lack of badges representing numerous positive ratings.

    You simply leave the negativity out of it and only put a spotlight on the positives.

    I like this idea, but as I explained above, I think it's best to let the game figure this out, for the reasons I mentioned.

    How do you game a system where your opponents can ONLY give you a positive rating?

    Are people going to 'game' it so they get a bunch of positive ratings?

    Let's say you get a badge after 100 positive unique ratings - that means someone is going to need to create or befriend 100 different EA accounts, play a full game and then give a positive rating.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Why not then have different options. Like if players want an arcade type drop-in, then have that as a another mode away from indoor drop-in. I know a lot of us who want indoor drop-in and jersey selection back. As for the roster update thing! Exactly what has been done to make this game better since 2017? Adding outdoor hockey and 3's was something different. But other than that it took over 4 years to fix Be A Pro. Then we get the option to play indoor drop-in taken away when many of us cannot fathom to play outdoor drop-in when our club isn't around. Took me a my buddies 7 hours back in February to get 1 full drop-in and 3 hours for club. We eventually moved to a different game.

    Maybe I am not understanding but they already HAVE this option with the Eliminator modes. I have to say this is a game with far too many modes to play already.

    Eliminator Modes: Arcade style action, Outdoor Rinks, "Casual wear"
    CHEL: Indoor rinks, proper gear

    I think the death of lobbies plus the introduction of online 3s killed online 6s. But I don't know what can be done about it now. It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle. I play club 3s now because so few people play the game (and my captain is very finicky about who he/we play with) that there is only 2 people in my club. That said, EASHL 3s is actually fun. As a Dman it is nice to be able to contribute more offensively which is nigh impossible to do responsibly any more in 6s (and it looks even more grim in 21).

    But it also dilutes the player base. So if you remove it, I am not sure what happens? Some go to 3s Eliminator, some to 6s? I think improving the AI helps. I wouldnt mind playing 6s with AI if they were better. I could see getting rid of drop in 3s tbh. no easy way out tho.

    Sorry, random musings there...

    In world of chel, drop-in is outdoor hockey and only club has indoor. Though many clubs disbanded and many of their members joined VGHL league gaming instead. It's not an official mode of EASHL and has caused a lot of non-league clubs struggle to find games. Indoor drop-in, community lobbies were essential parts to scouting active club members or just playing a decent casual game without people quitting. I remember on the old gen we used to do a draft type scenario to decided who goes on which team. A troll comes in, we just make a private lobby and put a password on it. I can only have so many friends on my list to make a private lobby now with the same 100 people I used to play with back on PS3. This casual outdoor garbage should just be stuck with 3's only, as that was fun pond hockey. Indoor drop-in 6's should have been kept left alone.
  • the only way to change an nhl video game for the better is to change the whole development team!
    Just release everyone and hire new programmers with a new vision.

    It's the same as Star Wars! EA bought a license and started making games with the "StarWars" brand. And those games were so bad that George Lucas slammed into the table and gave EA the ultimatum: either start making StarWars games of the appropriate quality or I'll revoke your license! (and it really happened)
    And so it came into being: Squadrons It's not a big miracle, but it sticks to the Star Wars license! And that is the most important thing.

    And the NHL management has to do the same and check if the person who makes the NHL video game also adheres to a certain level.
    The NHL is the best league in the world, but as a video game it looks like a "district championship league".
    The ton of detail that is part of the NHL show is missing.
    We players like to wait and we won't buy the same game from the same development team forever.
    I believe NHL22 will go in the right direction as StarWars with Squadrons.

    I love Star Wars and I love hockey .... unfortunately there are different rules in hockey and there are hockey superpowers countries.

    And I understand that EA wants to save, so hire very capable programmers from Asia.

    And I have nothing against programmers from Asia !!!!

    But in that case, EA also has to pay consultants from hockey countries who really understand hockey on the professional side. There is no other way to improve. It's really up to me that the development of Squadrons took 2 years and we hockey players have to watch the same game for 10 years and EA doesn't care.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    IceLion68 wrote: »

    No because you don't allow people to give negative ratings.

    Only positive ratings.

    Your goal as a player is to rack up positive ratings in order to get a badge that says you're a positive team-player.

    If you're a poor player - you simply don't get those badges. No negative icons or ratings... just a lack of badges representing numerous positive ratings.

    You simply leave the negativity out of it and only put a spotlight on the positives.

    I like this idea, but as I explained above, I think it's best to let the game figure this out, for the reasons I mentioned.

    How do you game a system where your opponents can ONLY give you a positive rating?

    Are people going to 'game' it so they get a bunch of positive ratings?

    Let's say you get a badge after 100 positive unique ratings - that means someone is going to need to create or befriend 100 different EA accounts, play a full game and then give a positive rating.

    People will get all their buddies to give them a positive rating, but to your point, maybe over time the system will balance that out. I still feel it's better for the game to calculate it. Or just show someones team play rating.

    EDIT: I wish Xbox live matchmaking worked better - Remember TruSkill? Preferring and avoiding players? How that was supposed to solve matchmaking? It just kind of quietly disappeared :/
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • SahioX
    101 posts Member
    I'm totally with @IceLion68 and others when I say that Drop-In 6s should have stayed in-doors.

    Ones, 3s : keept them as is.

    6s : Here is where the adjustments
    • Bring back the indoor/full gear
    • Bring the minimum at 4 players on each side
    • Allow user to opt to complete the game even if the other team quits
    • Allow clubs to join a Drop-in (Option)
    • Allow Drop-in users to join a club game (option)
    • Allow more than 12 players within a team selection screen to help fill in 6s
    • Allow game to start before timers' off if 8 or 10 out of 12 players are 'READY'
    • Have more strict Grading, especially on positioning, to boot players. A D-Man that plays strictly like a Winger should be benched within the span of 3 shifts, even if the Winger or C covers for him, regardless of points/goals.
    • Last minute of periods and Powerplay should be real time.
    • Bring hockey back - more scoring on actual hockey plays, more saves on 'off the rush'
    • AI should be BEAST against the rush, and not so great at keeping the players on the outside.
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    unfortunately only your ilusion...

    *FIFA 20 has more than 25 million unique players to date.
    *Madden NFL 20 reached the highest engagement levels in franchise history.

    *from google

    it is only hard fact EA is growing. it is low cost airlines with rich management.
    how many peoples like air with low cost airlines? nobody....
    but if you must do travel you will do

    NHL 20 was my most played iteration since 14 on the Xbox 360. 19 I started playing more again, but nhl 20 was the first year in the last 6 years where nhl was my most played title for the year.

    Some things that frustrate me with lower overall teams in squad battles every so often being the hardest to beat team of the 4 (base silver and gold cards being harder to beat than the 98ovr team stacked with 99s), but for the most part it was enjoyable to me.

    With the reveals since this post was made, I've become cautiously optimistic for 21. Albeit I never played the closed beta they had.
  • [quote="Socair;c-2157063"]And here we are with personal attacks again. Please refrain or thread will be closed. [/quote]

    Fix the game. Give us what we want already. It's embarrassing how bad these games have gotten. 09-14 were great. EA has gotten soft just like the real world. Everyone gets a trophy for participating. Everyone is a winner. Let's take attributes away in EASHL a game mode meant to be a for players to be able to customize everything to their liking. Attributes made EASHL you took them away and gave us cookie cutter builds because everyone needs to be a winner losing is unacceptable. This is why I've tilt is real! You guys claim it isn't when infact it's away for you guys to keep people happy. We've gotten the same game the last 3 year. Everything that's been added to the game could've been patched in. But na why patch which is free to the player when you can sell the same game with a few tweaks for 60.
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