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Nhl21 Cross Crease / One Timers

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I'm not sure if amy of the devs or anyone who can make changes reads any of this but one timer success rate needs to be toned WAY DOWN. Also, there are way too many passes going through players who are clearly in the passing lane.

Being in close 1 goal games where your opponent has 4 shots but scored on 3 one timers is honestly pathetic. One of the biggest sells of nhl21 was better goalies so why can't goalies save even one cross crease ?

I love the speed, I like the physical differences in hitting and contact, I love the poke checking (please don't change this)

Another slight gripe is stick lifting is nowhere close to effective which is really unfair to eashl dmen, hopefully EA makes a few changes, overall it seems much more playable than last year but needs tweaking for sure.

Replies

  • EA_Blueberry
    4167 posts EA Community Manager
    Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?
  • Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?

    In my opinion, the success rate of one-timers correlates perfectly with the defensive skill level of the player seeing these go in so often.

    That being said, I'd like to see the defensive a.i. recognize these attempts more quickly and do a better job disrupting the shooter on the reception.

    Stick lifts for defending in EASHL are in a good place. I'd like to see less of the statue when a player gets lifted (players suddenly stop moving their feet when they get stick lifted) but other than that it seems to be quite balanced.
  • Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?

    In my opinion, the success rate of one-timers correlates perfectly with the defensive skill level of the player seeing these go in so often.

    That being said, I'd like to see the defensive a.i. recognize these attempts more quickly and do a better job disrupting the shooter on the reception.

    Stick lifts for defending in EASHL are in a good place. I'd like to see less of the statue when a player gets lifted (players suddenly stop moving their feet when they get stick lifted) but other than that it seems to be quite balanced.

    No. It's not balanced. Plus, you're only thinking about HUT in these situations (even though both modes share the same mechanics). At least in 20, forwards couldn't force a perfect pass through a sea of bodies to get a one-timer to a guy just sitting at the circles to expose a goalie that's too weak in movement to make the save. The game is built around one-timers. Not even smartly played one-timers like you could pull of in 20. It's turned into a game where you just force passes for them now and requires no skill and/or good passing around defenders to use.

    They're overpowered. And this is coming from a guy whose team led NHL 20 with one-timer goals at the end of that game's life.

    p93YgIF.png


  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?

    In my opinion, the success rate of one-timers correlates perfectly with the defensive skill level of the player seeing these go in so often.

    That being said, I'd like to see the defensive a.i. recognize these attempts more quickly and do a better job disrupting the shooter on the reception.

    Stick lifts for defending in EASHL are in a good place. I'd like to see less of the statue when a player gets lifted (players suddenly stop moving their feet when they get stick lifted) but other than that it seems to be quite balanced.

    No. It's not balanced. Plus, you're only thinking about HUT in these situations (even though both modes share the same mechanics). At least in 20, forwards couldn't force a perfect pass through a sea of bodies to get a one-timer to a guy just sitting at the circles to expose a goalie that's too weak in movement to make the save. The game is built around one-timers. Not even smartly played one-timers like you could pull of in 20. It's turned into a game where you just force passes for them now and requires no skill and/or good passing around defenders to use.

    They're overpowered. And this is coming from a guy whose team led NHL 20 with one-timer goals at the end of that game's life.

    p93YgIF.png


    I'm not sure where in my post I referred to HUT. I'm exclusively and OVP/EASHL/BAP player.

    It's all well and good that you led in one-timer goals in NHL 20, but that statistic doesn't really prove anything here?

    The game is build around defending. It's your job to recognize the plays that result in one-timers and it's your job to take away the ability for a player to get a shot off, should they receive a pass.

    You're seeing a lot of complaints about one-timers this year because of two things;

    1. The defensive a.i. needs to be tuned up a little to take way the one-timer.
    2. Players are not actively defending. As a top 100 player in OVP - I can say with some authority that the majority of players who fall victim to one-timers (myself included) are stuck in old habits of passively defending and just trying to intercept passes by simply 'being in the lane'.

    You need to take an active approach to defending this year and maybe the request I made in #1 is a window in to my own inefficiencies in defending and maybe I need to work more on taking control of a defender who is closer to the one-timer receiver.

    You can no longer just sit in passing lanes anymore - you need to either attack the carrier or take the shot away from a potential receiver.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    1. Even though we were great at one-timers, I recognize the lethality of them needs to come down. I've ALWAYS advocated for a balanced game. Blaming the D-men year after year isn't balance.

    2. Have you seen the AI in EASHL 21? Want me to record for full game for you? The AI does not at all need to be tuned up. With the exception of BAP D-men, they are absolute studs this year on offense and defense.

    3. Is "passive" defense the new gotcha' this year? I'm really sorry you're an inefficient defender, but anticipating passes and taking away lanes is actually the best defense in your own zone. It forces the offense to move the puck around you, but since the mechanic now is that passes and shots get through even if you're in good position, the new goal scoring meta is obviously the one-timer. You want defenders to be aggressive on forwards that use mechanics, speed, and lag at their advantage to pull them out of position for even more open ice. Last year, all you guys were saying that it was the D-men's fault for always being out of position because they were too aggressive, lol. Round and round we go.

    4. Also, apologies if posting stats hurt you. Be prepared to see a lot of them when I make my points so you know that when you have a discussion with me, that I actually know what I'm talking about because either me or my guys have mastered it, or as I've heard you say before... adapted. I just don't like adapting to bad mechanics.
  • Snipecity98XB1
    299 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    My gripe is 1. With forced passes going through way too often and 2. If the pass goes through / isn't blocked, the goalie NEVER saves a one timer. Shouldn't they adapt ? Shouldn't the goalie AI recognize that their opponent is ONLY going for one timers and be able to save one ?

    I'm not exaggerating at all when I say every goal scored against me is a one timer, I've even had opponents saying 'man I shouldn't have won that lol damn one timers' in an average game, I limit my opponent to less than 10 shots per game while I dominate but still my goalie can't stop one cross crease or one timer.. and my style of play isn't constantly forcing one timers so it sucks when I lose to someone who is only playing that way and having so much success.

    As for stick lift, maybe I need more time with the game, I've seen some examples that made me think okay maybe it's my positioning. Poke checking is incredible right now, very accurate and penalties are called rightfully when you poked at the skates, I really like it. Physicality is better, some players who get hit or bumped still end up with the puck a bit more than I'd like but there is a very positive difference from nhl20 to be fair.

    Just to be clear, I'm not some hater saying damn you EA, same game same glitch rabble rabble. I'm posting because I overall like the game and can recognize EA really tried to focus on balance in nhl21.. I just believe there is no doubting that one timers are too successful and goalies do not adapt.

    One timers are so successful i already even find myself only circling and forcing passes looking for one timers, which I hate. I don't want to play this way.. but if goalies never stop one timers and the success is so high.. of course thats all players are going to do.
  • I’ve noticed that interceptions this year really require you to not be holding LT. It’s been like this for years and years when playing defense, and if you’re at all holding LT when the pass is made, it’s going through 100% of the time. Because everyone gets to play with this unrealistic top-down view, I don’t mind that the game is forcing me to play my man closer to pick passes off.

    I think this is a meta change that should stay and see how the community adapts for a bit before tuning. If we had to play with 15 month-old balanced forwards last year whenever a microfiber of a blade glanced their skate for the entire 20 life cycle, I think the dev team should hold strong here and see what happens. To me, this is going to create a lot more time and space in 6s which is desperately needed. It forces weakside defenders to make a decision if their strong-side partner is beat, and it also reduces the artificial advantage all defending players have of being able to see the whole play at any moment.

    Stick to your man a little tighter, rely on some incidental contact, and make sure to let go of LT when you anticipate a pass. I know all of us here know these mechanics, but just reiterating because I truly think this change isn’t as bad as we think it is. If anything, I’d like to see the ability for interceptions to happen a lot more frequently when holding LT. Keep punishing the super zone defense so that spacing matters, but let defenders at least make all of the adjustments required to play such a tight gap. That’s the fix imo, not just a universal buff to interceptions.

  • KidShowtime1867
    1440 posts Member
    edited October 2020

    TheMajjam wrote: »
    2. Have you seen the AI in EASHL 21? Want me to record for full game for you? The AI does not at all need to be tuned up. With the exception of BAP D-men, they are absolute studs this year on offense and defense.

    Yes. I've posted a few issues with the A.i. here and here. Absolute studs isn't what I'd use to describe them. Better? Yes. Studs? Getting there.
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    3. Is "passive" defense the new gotcha' this year? I'm really sorry you're an inefficient defender

    Umm.. top 100 in OVP.. wouldn't neccesarily say I'm inefficient on the whole - certain situations yet - but maybe tone down the attitude a little?

    Anyway..
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    but anticipating passes and taking away lanes is actually the best defense in your own zone.

    Nobody is saying that it isn't. We're saying that in NHL 21 - you need to be active. If you're so good at anticipating the passes, why not time a poke check, stick lift or body check properly to negate the shot?

    Sitting in a passing lane is all well and good but you're expecting the game to automatically intercept a pass for you just because you're in the right position. How about incorporating proper positioning with the right tools?

    That gets us closer to 100% user responsibility and less on RNG and automation.


    TheMajjam wrote: »
    It forces the offense to move the puck around you, but since the mechanic now is that passes and shots get through even if you're in good position, the new goal scoring meta is obviously the one-timer.

    I agree that some passes are making it through that shouldn't, for sure.

    But to say one-timers are suddenly a 'new goal scoring meta' gives me a chuckle.

    One-timers have been meta since NHL 94.
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    You want defenders to be aggressive on forwards that use mechanics, speed, and lag at their advantage to pull them out of position for even more open ice.

    Defenders have mechanics at their disposal too, but people often resort to spamming them when working in tight, defensive scenarios.

    Not a fault of the mechanics - a fault of the user.


    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Last year, all you guys were saying that it was the D-men's fault for always being out of position because they were too aggressive, lol. Round and round we go.

    And this year it's the D-Man's fault for not being active participants in the D-Zone - other than just being there.

    You can use DSS to discourage a player from moving to certain areas or making certain passes. Again - top 100 OVP - I don't see DSS being used as much as I should.

    I think I'll see it more as the meta progresses and people become aware that there ARE defensive tools that WORK - you just need to learn how to use them efficiently.
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    4. Also, apologies if posting stats hurt you. Be prepared to see a lot of them when I make my points so you know that when you have a discussion with me, that I actually know what I'm talking about because either me or my guys have mastered it, or as I've heard you say before... adapted. I just don't like adapting to bad mechanics.

    Nothing is hurting me. Not sure why you think your stats 'hurt' anyone? Sounds like a bit of an ego.

    And yea I'm sure you have a great EASHL team you do speak with some authority - but you're talking to someone who sits in top 100 OVP every year so I think I have some authority on the subject too.

  • Socair
    2643 posts Game Changer
    edited October 2020
    Cool it with making things personal please, @TheMajjam @KidShowtime1867
    Good discussion and disagreement is fine, just no personal jabs.
  • Its pretty obvious that defenseman should be intercepting more passes. In no way should a defenseman have to time a poke check to break up a pass to a guy they are already standing perfectly in front of with their stick in front of his stick. Thats illogical and frankly flat out stupid. Positioning matters, its frankly the most important part of playing defense despite what some people like to pretend.

    What we 100% dont need to do is overreact to this and make spiderman goalies that fly post to post stopping good hockey.
  • To be fair, the top player has played nearly 1,000 games and only has 1,900 one-timer goals. That isn't that bad, if you average it out that is approx. 1.9 per game which isn't that many, I think on par with what you had last year. Could it use some work? Sure. Every facet of the game can use work. Complacency is not a good thing. However, this game is a good step in the right direction.
  • mikeq67 wrote: »
    Its pretty obvious that defenseman should be intercepting more passes. In no way should a defenseman have to time a poke check to break up a pass to a guy they are already standing perfectly in front of with their stick in front of his stick. Thats illogical and frankly flat out stupid. Positioning matters, its frankly the most important part of playing defense despite what some people like to pretend.

    What we 100% dont need to do is overreact to this and make spiderman goalies that fly post to post stopping good hockey.

    I just don't know how to respond to someone that tells me if I'm in the pass lane because I know it's a good percentage pass to make and anticipate it, and I'm facing this pass, that I should use poke check to disrupt the pass instead of being perfectly capable of intercepting said pass with a Def Awareness of 94. Or I should rush the passer. Or I should rush to the pass recipient and just watch as the passer passes to someone else.
  • GramerProfesur
    549 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?

    In my opinion, the success rate of one-timers correlates perfectly with the defensive skill level of the player seeing these go in so often.

    That being said, I'd like to see the defensive a.i. recognize these attempts more quickly and do a better job disrupting the shooter on the reception.

    Stick lifts for defending in EASHL are in a good place. I'd like to see less of the statue when a player gets lifted (players suddenly stop moving their feet when they get stick lifted) but other than that it seems to be quite balanced.

    Disagree with virtually everything in this post especially the bold. The argument that it’s the players fault is a tired and wrong one

    Unless you have a defenseman basically flush against the attacking player he won’t intercept the puck unless he has insane stats (Ex: defensive D with all boosts). The backwards skating and agility, specifically when it comes to forwards and backwards transitions, will cause you to get burnt if you choose to play with that. At max your dman should be 6’0 200 pounds as a TWD or PMD in order to not get beat off the rush, if you use realistic gap control. Otherwise you’ll have to sit way back and out of the play to not get beat as a bigger, slower dman

    As someone who considers himself to be a pretty good dman, defense is insanely difficult this year. These issues plus broken tools (the stick lifts are still wonky how you can possibly say it’s fine? Why can’t I stick lift someone at a glide? It has to be a full stop?) make it way harder than it needs to be. It’s frustrating and simply not fun. I will tune out playing online here shortly and have heard from many people who are cutting out the game all together. Defense, goalies, and AI continue to get ZERO love from this development team. This is no longer a sim but “who can score the most bad goals”. Every game is like 8-6 with multiple goals that squeak in, one timers that go through several bodies, etc etc
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Thank you for dropping by the forums, @Snipecity98XB1

    Bumping this post for more feedback from others on cross crease goals and stick lifting for EASHL Dmen.

    Thoughts?

    In my opinion, the success rate of one-timers correlates perfectly with the defensive skill level of the player seeing these go in so often.

    That being said, I'd like to see the defensive a.i. recognize these attempts more quickly and do a better job disrupting the shooter on the reception.

    Stick lifts for defending in EASHL are in a good place. I'd like to see less of the statue when a player gets lifted (players suddenly stop moving their feet when they get stick lifted) but other than that it seems to be quite balanced.

    Disagree with virtually everything in this post especially the bold. The argument that it’s the players fault is a tired and wrong one

    Unless you have a defenseman basically flush against the attacking player he won’t intercept the puck unless he has insane stats (Ex: defensive D with all boosts). The backwards skating and agility, specifically when it comes to forwards and backwards transitions, will cause you to get burnt if you choose to play with that. At max your dman should be 6’0 200 pounds as a TWD or PMD in order to not get beat off the rush, if you use realistic gap control. Otherwise you’ll have to sit way back and out of the play to not get beat as a bigger, slower dman

    As someone who considers himself to be a pretty good dman, defense is insanely difficult this year. These issues plus broken tools (the stick lifts are still wonky how you can possibly say it’s fine? Why can’t I stick lift someone at a glide? It has to be a full stop?) make it way harder than it needs to be. It’s frustrating and simply not fun. I will tune out playing online here shortly and have heard from many people who are cutting out the game all together. Defense, goalies, and AI continue to get ZERO love from this development team. This is no longer a sim but “who can score the most bad goals”. Every game is like 8-6 with multiple goals that squeak in, one timers that go through several bodies, etc etc

    I have no clue where these guys are talking about it's so easy to play D. Show me clips. Show me games. Show me something to corroborate your point that doesn't involve HUT or these other modes where the majority of the game are played by AI and are much slower, but by real people, real teams, in 6's EASHL.

    @KidShowtime1867 This quote of yours...

    "That gets us closer to 100% user responsibility and less on RNG and automation."

    But what about the offensive automation? There's so much of it! Magnetic pucks. Perfect passes. Automatic micro-recoveries. High-success rate dekes in the middle of traffic. Pucks going through bodies, sticks, and even bodies laying on the ice! Lol. Absolutely delusional when people tell me this game is fine where it's at. It's not. Not be a long shot.

    I guess the stick checking is right where it needs to be, eh?
    gtDoaSI.gif

    Imagine a game where the offense actually has to work for their ice! Where just pushing down to continue skating when you've been challenged doesn't end up as an auto micro-battle that fights the D for the puck, reaches, and maintains it all for the offense. Offense just needs to skate and pass. The game does the rest.
    Dzgjj8L.gif

    Imagine playing "aggressive" and not "passive" defense. The offense does nothing but skates in a straight line right into you in a position where the puck should never be maintained. Yet he doesn't stumble, nor does he get slowed, and once more the auto-pickup helps him out.
    ljJgPPJ.gif

    Skate around the body? No. Sky the pass over the body? Nope. Expect what's been indicative of this game in regards to the puck. Let's just go through bodies with the pass.
    t5WCQWb.gif

    This game is great! Don't change anything. There's no more room for improvement. We've done it boys. Want more going through things with less than a minute left for the tying goal? Why not. Stick through stick, stick through pads. Let's goooo, lol.
    aQTiw6C.gif

    I get it. There's obviously people that love the game. There's aspect of it that I enjoy too, but to say that there's nothing wrong and/or we're near a perfect working game here is hyperbole.
    Post edited by TheMajjam on
  • We got this one side that says, defense is so difficult this year and one side that says, defense is so much easier this year..

    For me it's a big relief to be able to actually make an impact as a D, I can hit, I can poke, I can cover up passing lanes, I can control with the DSS.

    I like that much more then how it was in 20..Just being in the background, hoping to glide into the puck or that they miss the shot they worked for the last couple of 10 minutes with circle 's back and forth in my own zone.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    We got this one side that says, defense is so difficult this year and one side that says, defense is so much easier this year..

    For me it's a big relief to be able to actually make an impact as a D, I can hit, I can poke, I can cover up passing lanes, I can control with the DSS.

    I like that much more then how it was in 20..Just being in the background, hoping to glide into the puck or that they miss the shot they worked for the last couple of 10 minutes with circle 's back and forth in my own zone.

    I dunno. I only see the same people since last year saying that defense was fine then, and it's fine now. I'm paying attention to places other than this forum.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1440 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    I guess the stick checking is right where it needs to be, eh?
    gtDoaSI.gif


    So the poke check was the wrong decision here. Why would you attempt to poke the puck when your body is so close to the puck carrier?

    If the arm of your player literally goes through the body of the puck carrier when you poke check - you're too close and you should be penalized.
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    Imagine a game where the offense actually has to work for their ice! Where just pushing down to continue skating when you've been challenged doesn't end up as an auto micro-battle that fights the D for the puck, reaches, and maintains it all for the offense. Offense just needs to skate and pass. The game does the rest.
    Dzgjj8L.gif


    The forward fakes yellow out - gets him to move laterally to the left for only a few frames, but that's all he needs to utilize his acceleration (and he's able to do so because he's not holding LS to 100% the whole time - allowing him agility and bursts of speed):

    qFxh4g7.gif

    After he gets around yellow - Yellow throws a body check while also turning around:

    8nz3sVt.png

    At this point, Yellow should've hit stick lift:

    rM1VZbM.png



    Failing to stick lift, failing to use DSS to discourage movement and falling victim to a head fake... 3 crucial mistakes resulting in NOT obtaining possession. I like that.

    This is how yellow should've handled it:

    PlyddIE.gif

    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Imagine playing "aggressive" and not "passive" defense. The offense does nothing but skates in a straight line right into you in a position where the puck should never be maintained. Yet he doesn't stumble, nor does he get slowed, and once more the auto-pickup helps him out.
    ljJgPPJ.gif

    The forward receives the puck at the moment Yellow just skates in to him. Yellow is pushing too hard to the right - and this is evidenced by the fact that yellow ends up on the outside of the play:

    Vw7N9w7.png


    This is poor defensive gap control by Yellow. I understand you want yellow to disrupt the path of the puck carrier - and part of me agrees - but most of me agrees that yellow should pay a price for not using good body positioning to negate this chance. Also - the defensive players the player in the centre position is flopping all over the place.... you can tell the team in red is able to expose overly aggressive D.

    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Skate around the body? No. Sky the pass over the body? Nope. Expect what's been indicative of this game in regards to the puck. Let's just go through bodies with the pass.
    t5WCQWb.gif

    There's clearly a gap between the player's body and the puck:

    rNza7G0.png

    The angle you chose makes it appear the puck goes through the body - and I'm not saying it never does - but in this instance I believe the puck just found a gap.
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    This game is great! Don't change anything. There's no more room for improvement. We've done it boys. Want more going through things with less than a minute left for the tying goal? Why not. Stick through stick, stick through pads. Let's goooo, lol.
    aQTiw6C.gif

    Clipping happens in every game - especially sports - ever made. This will always be an issue. The horsepower required - and the engineering under the hood - just isn't there to calculate interactions between every single piece of equipment on the ice.

    EA does their best to fix this - it gets better every year - but sometimes things like this happen.

    It doesn't mean the game isn't great. lots of Great games suffer this problem.
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    I get it. There's obviously people that love the game. There's aspect of it that I enjoy too, but to say that there's nothing wrong and/or we're near a perfect working game here is hyperbole.

    Nobody has ever said there was nothing wrong with NHL 21 nor has anyone said the game is perfect.

    It's getting there though.

    Post edited by KidShowtime1867 on
  • EA_Aljo
    2382 posts EA Community Manager
    Something we've had a lot of feedback on here is making the game more sim and having less automated actions so that personal skill is more important. It would seem having interceptions be less automated would align with that. Would you guys rather defense be more manual and dependent on skill or would you rather have interceptions be more automated and just need you to be in the passing lane?
  • Sega82mega
    2672 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    defense be more manual and dependent on skill, fo shizzel!

    The more less dependent we are on the A.I, the better it is. Should be a duel man vs man, as much as it can.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Something we've had a lot of feedback on here is making the game more sim and having less automated actions so that personal skill is more important. It would seem having interceptions be less automated would align with that. Would you guys rather defense be more manual and dependent on skill or would you rather have interceptions be more automated and just need you to be in the passing lane?

    What kind of skill other than being in the right positions do you want the defense to do with pass interceptions, Aljo? Please don't tell me poke checking or using the DSS. That's not intercepting the puck, that's just swiping it away.
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