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Stop lying to yourselves, cross crease is trash

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  • Thoughts on the 1-2-2 Aggressive & 1-2-2 Red strategy in stopping the cross-crease?

    The video can be watched here.

    Sleeveless goes over what this strategy will do for your skaters on defense.

    I play CHEL so I cannot comment.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Something that I feel could be done to help quell some of these cross creases is forcing people to time the shoot button with the one timer pass.

    Being able to hit pass and just hold the shoot button and still getting good accuracy shouldn’t be a thing.

    You should have to time it properly in order for it to be accurate.
  • Sega82mega
    2617 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Something that I feel could be done to help quell some of these cross creases is forcing people to time the shoot button with the one timer pass.

    Being able to hit pass and just hold the shoot button and still getting good accuracy shouldn’t be a thing.

    You should have to time it properly in order for it to be accurate.

    Yup!

    And I dont like this auto sauce either. That should be a skill in my opinion, to know when to sauce. Would also nerf some of the already powerful offensive.

    Maybe if only manual passes could result in a one-timer would be a good/fun thing.
  • Something that I feel could be done to help quell some of these cross creases is forcing people to time the shoot button with the one timer pass.

    Being able to hit pass and just hold the shoot button and still getting good accuracy shouldn’t be a thing.

    You should have to time it properly in order for it to be accurate.
    And/or at the very least (as evidenced in the video) be *facing* the puck.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Something that I feel could be done to help quell some of these cross creases is forcing people to time the shoot button with the one timer pass.

    Being able to hit pass and just hold the shoot button and still getting good accuracy shouldn’t be a thing.

    You should have to time it properly in order for it to be accurate.
    And/or at the very least (as evidenced in the video) be *facing* the puck.

    Yes for sure, especially in the mode you enjoy (CHEL) there should be more onus on players facing the puck.

  • Something that I feel could be done to help quell some of these cross creases is forcing people to time the shoot button with the one timer pass.

    Being able to hit pass and just hold the shoot button and still getting good accuracy shouldn’t be a thing.

    You should have to time it properly in order for it to be accurate.

    Remember, the super elite players can’t do this because of “lag” so this will never happen. Maybe if they turned the game speed from air hockey to hockey you’d have more time to accurately time a shot, challenge a shooter, use DSS even more effectively, but nah, keep the game speed on air hockey, force passes all day, watch the “elite” human goalies make “reads” while playing with one hand on their controller to make highlight reel one-timer saves...ESPORTS!
  • Why is it so unusual in this game to fall back in a backskate and try to defend by protecting areas on the ice by help of DSS and body positioning?

    It often seems to me that either they go for a full forecheck, where they try hard to poke the puck or to hit you hard. And if you get by that forecheck they comes skating behind you to poke back the puck. Why dosent people want to follow the game pace and fall back in backskate. With a player thats infront of the puck carrier instead of coming from behind?

    Its like no one want to defend by backskating.

    And another unusual thing that I"ve almost never see.. People that takes the puck back home, to your own zone. As soon as it gets a turnover, the same second they try to break back the play into offensive zone..

    Just abit curious, why this way seem to be the 'only' way to play this game..
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Why is it so unusual in this game to fall back in a backskate and try to defend by protecting areas on the ice by help of DSS and body positioning?

    It often seems to me that either they go for a full forecheck, where they try hard to poke the puck or to hit you hard. And if you get by that forecheck they comes skating behind you to poke back the puck. Why dosent people want to follow the game pace and fall back in backskate. With a player thats infront of the puck carrier instead of coming from behind?

    Its like no one want to defend by backskating.

    And another unusual thing that I"ve almost never see.. People that takes the puck back home, to your own zone. As soon as it gets a turnover, the same second they try to break back the play into offensive zone..

    Just abit curious, why this way seem to be the 'only' way to play this game..

    Because acceleration and fatigue don’t matter online. If you could actually pull the puck back and catch someone flat-footed with a stretch pass, people would start to play smarter. Or if passes weren’t so cleanly picked up regardless of speed, pickup type, reaction time, attributes, etc then people wouldn’t play the game so fast as everything wouldn’t be so perfectly executed. If defenders could actually move people off the puck (not with a huge run, but actually a realistic rub out play you see 1000 times a game in the NHL) then forwards wouldn’t be so quick to just rush into outnumbered situations knowing they can LT spin and face-bounce off the wall to escape. This game plays like bubble hockey because everything is on the rush or is someone just standing still with puck in the corner lol. When low-speed hitting isn’t effective, when the AI can’t play fundamental hockey, when the puck carrier can do ridiculous pivots and accelerations on a dime, there’s no sense of strategy other than an extreme attack when the puck is loose or an extreme collapse when the puck is controlled.

    What my current set does is basically brings back the old-gen speed (much slower and more strategic) but obviously it’s pairs with RPM which mitigates a lot of the pivot frustrations defensemen experienced on old-gen when trying to keep up with straight-line speed.

    This game still has every tool and slider (when they’re actually working) to deliver a balanced, fun online experience that mixes sim with esports but they refuse to do so. Goalie reaction is hilariously high while simultaneously being too low cross crease, shooting accuracy is stupid high, fatigue effect irrelevantly low, acceleration levels that would break the sound barrier, checking levels that put the WWE to shame yet a lack of incidental contact which promotes board bouncing and creates invisible bubble situations, it’s just not even remotely fun.

    This game online is like playing a CoD-style war game with elements of ARMA that are half-baked in just enough to make the CoD experience not smooth nor fun while also being so far away from ARMA that milsim fans don’t want to touch it either.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Why is it so unusual in this game to fall back in a backskate and try to defend by protecting areas on the ice by help of DSS and body positioning?

    It often seems to me that either they go for a full forecheck, where they try hard to poke the puck or to hit you hard. And if you get by that forecheck they comes skating behind you to poke back the puck. Why dosent people want to follow the game pace and fall back in backskate. With a player thats infront of the puck carrier instead of coming from behind?

    Its like no one want to defend by backskating.

    And another unusual thing that I"ve almost never see.. People that takes the puck back home, to your own zone. As soon as it gets a turnover, the same second they try to break back the play into offensive zone..

    Just abit curious, why this way seem to be the 'only' way to play this game..

    Because acceleration and fatigue don’t matter online. If you could actually pull the puck back and catch someone flat-footed with a stretch pass, people would start to play smarter. Or if passes weren’t so cleanly picked up regardless of speed, pickup type, reaction time, attributes, etc then people wouldn’t play the game so fast as everything wouldn’t be so perfectly executed. If defenders could actually move people off the puck (not with a huge run, but actually a realistic rub out play you see 1000 times a game in the NHL) then forwards wouldn’t be so quick to just rush into outnumbered situations knowing they can LT spin and face-bounce off the wall to escape. This game plays like bubble hockey because everything is on the rush or is someone just standing still with puck in the corner lol. When low-speed hitting isn’t effective, when the AI can’t play fundamental hockey, when the puck carrier can do ridiculous pivots and accelerations on a dime, there’s no sense of strategy other than an extreme attack when the puck is loose or an extreme collapse when the puck is controlled.

    What my current set does is basically brings back the old-gen speed (much slower and more strategic) but obviously it’s pairs with RPM which mitigates a lot of the pivot frustrations defensemen experienced on old-gen when trying to keep up with straight-line speed.

    This game still has every tool and slider (when they’re actually working) to deliver a balanced, fun online experience that mixes sim with esports but they refuse to do so. Goalie reaction is hilariously high while simultaneously being too low cross crease, shooting accuracy is stupid high, fatigue effect irrelevantly low, acceleration levels that would break the sound barrier, checking levels that put the WWE to shame yet a lack of incidental contact which promotes board bouncing and creates invisible bubble situations, it’s just not even remotely fun.

    This game online is like playing a CoD-style war game with elements of ARMA that are half-baked in just enough to make the CoD experience not smooth nor fun while also being so far away from ARMA that milsim fans don’t want to touch it either.

    Thank you, that answer seems fair... But do you think people even know this way of playing? Cause sometimes it dosent feel that way.. Like everyone is trying to play the exact same way...

    It really takes the fun out of it.. Like nothing else mather then to push(!!!).

    Funny thing is.. The game feels best, animations and all that makes sense when you play more careful. So that should be a goal for the developers too... To get people to realize there's more.

    At least, you could think so..
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Why is it so unusual in this game to fall back in a backskate and try to defend by protecting areas on the ice by help of DSS and body positioning?

    It often seems to me that either they go for a full forecheck, where they try hard to poke the puck or to hit you hard. And if you get by that forecheck they comes skating behind you to poke back the puck. Why dosent people want to follow the game pace and fall back in backskate. With a player thats infront of the puck carrier instead of coming from behind?

    Its like no one want to defend by backskating.

    And another unusual thing that I"ve almost never see.. People that takes the puck back home, to your own zone. As soon as it gets a turnover, the same second they try to break back the play into offensive zone..

    Just abit curious, why this way seem to be the 'only' way to play this game..

    Because acceleration and fatigue don’t matter online. If you could actually pull the puck back and catch someone flat-footed with a stretch pass, people would start to play smarter. Or if passes weren’t so cleanly picked up regardless of speed, pickup type, reaction time, attributes, etc then people wouldn’t play the game so fast as everything wouldn’t be so perfectly executed. If defenders could actually move people off the puck (not with a huge run, but actually a realistic rub out play you see 1000 times a game in the NHL) then forwards wouldn’t be so quick to just rush into outnumbered situations knowing they can LT spin and face-bounce off the wall to escape. This game plays like bubble hockey because everything is on the rush or is someone just standing still with puck in the corner lol. When low-speed hitting isn’t effective, when the AI can’t play fundamental hockey, when the puck carrier can do ridiculous pivots and accelerations on a dime, there’s no sense of strategy other than an extreme attack when the puck is loose or an extreme collapse when the puck is controlled.

    What my current set does is basically brings back the old-gen speed (much slower and more strategic) but obviously it’s pairs with RPM which mitigates a lot of the pivot frustrations defensemen experienced on old-gen when trying to keep up with straight-line speed.

    This game still has every tool and slider (when they’re actually working) to deliver a balanced, fun online experience that mixes sim with esports but they refuse to do so. Goalie reaction is hilariously high while simultaneously being too low cross crease, shooting accuracy is stupid high, fatigue effect irrelevantly low, acceleration levels that would break the sound barrier, checking levels that put the WWE to shame yet a lack of incidental contact which promotes board bouncing and creates invisible bubble situations, it’s just not even remotely fun.

    This game online is like playing a CoD-style war game with elements of ARMA that are half-baked in just enough to make the CoD experience not smooth nor fun while also being so far away from ARMA that milsim fans don’t want to touch it either.

    Thank you, that answer seems fair... But do you think people even know this way of playing? Cause sometimes it dosent feel that way.. Like everyone is trying to play the exact same way...

    It really takes the fun out of it.. Like nothing else mather then to push(!!!).

    Funny thing is.. The game feels best, animations and all that makes sense when you play more careful. So that should be a goal for the developers too... To get people to realize there's more.

    At least, you could think so..

    I think people don’t know how to play careful because the meta has never rewarded it. When you turn acceleration down and speed down offline, the animations can look really smooth and natural. I’ve actually found the AI to be very competent with pass interceptions at 60/100 too when the gameplay is slower. I think the online default is 80/100 but max pss speed at 65/100 is simply way too fast for even 100/100 this year to be effective from my offline testing. My max pass speed at 55 is easily picked off and I believe it’s because it gives more time for the previous “untethered” player to react and stop the puck. I really don’t think this game needs to be slowed down a ton to be a great balance, and these values might offer some evidence to that.

    All this being said, the interceptions still aren’t bad in OTP settings in my limited experience at the start of the year. Maybe the perks and tuners messed it up, but I found it to be fine. It really gets exploited in 1v1 modes when you’re babysitting and actively trying to defend the high percentage shots.
  • amxblade wrote: »
    when I play I don't grab the puck skate down the ice EVERY Time thinking, hmmm how can I force this pass across for a one timer.

    Is EA supposed to introduce some type of mechanism to force players to make different shooting decisions, despite the fact the majority of opponents may fail to defend a wide open pass that just happens to flow across the crease?

    I'm opposed to any artificial elements being introduced in order to force players to avoid blatantly wide open cross-crease passes - and so should everyone.

    The real issue with the cross crease is there is no easy tool for less-skilled defenders to shut it down when it's currently happening. EA has put more onus on the defensive side of the puck and the abundance of cross crease goals indicates a low threshold for making a mistake in the neutral zone.

    In previous years, you could largely ignore the flow through the neutral zone because players would typically slow up and pull back - looking for a lane to the slot in order to score top shelf-against the grain goals.

    This allowed your backchecking forwards to catch up and clog any cross-crease play.

    This year - if you can't contain the speed of your opponent through the neutral zone - and you frantically switch defenders hoping to catch up - you're going to get burned - as you should.

    But youre completely ignoring the ones who just spin in the corners until they can charge their pass and regardless of perfect d position or not, it finds a way between your legs, or your stick will move JUST enough to get out of the way. Why? I think attributes play a part in this which is fine but then defensive positioning means jack in those cases. So no matter how well you play it, its gonna get through eventually.

    You could tell me to pressure them which i do but once they fire that pass, player switching is so bad that by the time it switches, my ai has already wandered 2 feet BEHIND the attacking forward, leaving him too far out of place for you to make a defensive play. Or if you dont switch, the ai will just stand there. So are we supposed to play the carrier? Thats what ea says they wanted, but in reality it encourages skill zoning even more because im afraid to let my ai handle those plays when all a guy does is circle in the corner looking for that pass.

    So yeah, the best d for it is skill zoning....something EA said they wanted to eliminate.

    Yeah this makes me chuckle. They’ve tried to address “skill zoning” in so many different ways, but simply having your Weakside players not completely disregard their assignments because you’re not attacking the figure skater in the corner enough for their (AI) liking apparently isn’t one of them.

    Can’t promote “skill” if you don’t promote 1v1 battles. Can’t actually honestly promote “playing the man” in this game because you can’t trust your teammates. Can’t make defensive pivots more of a “read” while simultaneously letting the puck carrier do dang-near 180 degree turns on a dime, especially when it involves slamming their face into the boards to bounce.

    This game will never be good online without custom lobbies and custom sliders. The Twitch streamers don’t want it to be hard because they’re not creative nor do they understand the sport. They watch the NHL highlight videos on YT and skip through the other 59:45 of real hockey and hard work being played. And I’m not advocating for a super grindy game, but I certainly don’t think this game and it’s meta offer a “creative” or “skilled” representation of the game. It’s literally harder to miss the the net than it is to score. Every year, I have to try and make sliders that make scoring actually rewarding, otherwise hockey (and any sport for the matter except basketball, basketball sucks) is a very boring game. That’s what happens when you dull scoring, make big hits the norm, make flashy dekes the norm, they become mundane. There’s no work, there’s no though process, there’s no actual skill used to score in games with top players. Usually a team gets EA’ed by an animation and that’s the difference. It’s almost parody that people win $ playing any EA Sprots product lol. They’re all the same. Scoring is boring.

    What's funny, is when playing FIFA I only do career mode and lock on my player. The AI is good enough that I can play whatever position and can count on teammates to defend or score without me. Theres more players on the field than on the ice yet they can't get it done
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Why is it so unusual in this game to fall back in a backskate and try to defend by protecting areas on the ice by help of DSS and body positioning?

    It often seems to me that either they go for a full forecheck, where they try hard to poke the puck or to hit you hard. And if you get by that forecheck they comes skating behind you to poke back the puck. Why dosent people want to follow the game pace and fall back in backskate. With a player thats infront of the puck carrier instead of coming from behind?

    Its like no one want to defend by backskating.

    And another unusual thing that I"ve almost never see.. People that takes the puck back home, to your own zone. As soon as it gets a turnover, the same second they try to break back the play into offensive zone..

    Just abit curious, why this way seem to be the 'only' way to play this game..

    Because acceleration and fatigue don’t matter online. If you could actually pull the puck back and catch someone flat-footed with a stretch pass, people would start to play smarter. Or if passes weren’t so cleanly picked up regardless of speed, pickup type, reaction time, attributes, etc then people wouldn’t play the game so fast as everything wouldn’t be so perfectly executed. If defenders could actually move people off the puck (not with a huge run, but actually a realistic rub out play you see 1000 times a game in the NHL) then forwards wouldn’t be so quick to just rush into outnumbered situations knowing they can LT spin and face-bounce off the wall to escape. This game plays like bubble hockey because everything is on the rush or is someone just standing still with puck in the corner lol. When low-speed hitting isn’t effective, when the AI can’t play fundamental hockey, when the puck carrier can do ridiculous pivots and accelerations on a dime, there’s no sense of strategy other than an extreme attack when the puck is loose or an extreme collapse when the puck is controlled.

    What my current set does is basically brings back the old-gen speed (much slower and more strategic) but obviously it’s pairs with RPM which mitigates a lot of the pivot frustrations defensemen experienced on old-gen when trying to keep up with straight-line speed.

    This game still has every tool and slider (when they’re actually working) to deliver a balanced, fun online experience that mixes sim with esports but they refuse to do so. Goalie reaction is hilariously high while simultaneously being too low cross crease, shooting accuracy is stupid high, fatigue effect irrelevantly low, acceleration levels that would break the sound barrier, checking levels that put the WWE to shame yet a lack of incidental contact which promotes board bouncing and creates invisible bubble situations, it’s just not even remotely fun.

    This game online is like playing a CoD-style war game with elements of ARMA that are half-baked in just enough to make the CoD experience not smooth nor fun while also being so far away from ARMA that milsim fans don’t want to touch it either.

    Thank you, that answer seems fair... But do you think people even know this way of playing? Cause sometimes it dosent feel that way.. Like everyone is trying to play the exact same way...

    It really takes the fun out of it.. Like nothing else mather then to push(!!!).

    Funny thing is.. The game feels best, animations and all that makes sense when you play more careful. So that should be a goal for the developers too... To get people to realize there's more.

    At least, you could think so..

    I think people don’t know how to play careful because the meta has never rewarded it. When you turn acceleration down and speed down offline, the animations can look really smooth and natural. I’ve actually found the AI to be very competent with pass interceptions at 60/100 too when the gameplay is slower. I think the online default is 80/100 but max pss speed at 65/100 is simply way too fast for even 100/100 this year to be effective from my offline testing. My max pass speed at 55 is easily picked off and I believe it’s because it gives more time for the previous “untethered” player to react and stop the puck. I really don’t think this game needs to be slowed down a ton to be a great balance, and these values might offer some evidence to that.

    All this being said, the interceptions still aren’t bad in OTP settings in my limited experience at the start of the year. Maybe the perks and tuners messed it up, but I found it to be fine. It really gets exploited in 1v1 modes when you’re babysitting and actively trying to defend the high percentage shots.

    It's abit strange we have been 'pushed' to play this way. Both the game and the player base takes alot of heat, cause of this 'meta'.

    Why I talk about this here in the cross crease thread is also cause I think the result of this type of play style is causing alot of problems when it comes to defending Cc's. To do that, it might be a good idea to start to backskate long before your own blue line.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »

    If you don't find the last video compelling I am not sure what to say anymore...

    This happened because his stick is passing through the goalie's stick. I know the dev team is trying to improve this. In that video, it would make sense to still have the puck deflect off the skates even though their stick had passed through an object. We'll have to wait and see what changes are made in the future, but the dev team is most definitely aware of these more unique cases where the puck should still react to a player when the stick is passing through an object.

    This isnt unique. It's been going on for years. Its just lazy, sorry
  • EA_Aljo
    2354 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »

    If you don't find the last video compelling I am not sure what to say anymore...

    This happened because his stick is passing through the goalie's stick. I know the dev team is trying to improve this. In that video, it would make sense to still have the puck deflect off the skates even though their stick had passed through an object. We'll have to wait and see what changes are made in the future, but the dev team is most definitely aware of these more unique cases where the puck should still react to a player when the stick is passing through an object.

    This isnt unique. It's been going on for years. Its just lazy, sorry

    This is intended. It's not about being lazy. If the stick is passing through a body/object, it can't contact the puck. This is to simulate the time it would take to free your stick and be able to play the puck. The unique part of it is having your player in the exact position in this video where their stick is clipping through the goalie and the puck passing through their skates.
  • So this is EA's goal of the week:



    Not a cross-crease goal, but definitely a showcase of one of the major issues contributing to the success of the cross-crease: Insane accuracy on a no-look pass.
  • So this is EA's goal of the week:



    Not a cross-crease goal, but definitely a showcase of one of the major issues contributing to the success of the cross-crease: Insane accuracy on a no-look pass.

    Hehe, the player that did that pass... Had only one 'good' option as I see it.. And that was to just blind pass the puck and hope for the one timer power to hit in!

    Most natural would have been a half turn to left along the board and backhand flip to left D.

    I will never accept this blind passes, especially the successful rate of them.. 1 in 10 okey... But not 8 out of 10.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    So this is EA's goal of the week:



    Not a cross-crease goal, but definitely a showcase of one of the major issues contributing to the success of the cross-crease: Insane accuracy on a no-look pass.

    Hehe, the player that did that pass... Had only one 'good' option as I see it.. And that was to just blind pass the puck and hope for the one timer power to hit in!

    Most natural would have been a half turn to left along the board and backhand flip to left D.

    I will never accept this blind passes, especially the successful rate of them.. 1 in 10 okey... But not 8 out of 10.

    Realistically is more believable that if a player did that the pass would hit a defender coming back to defend and it goes off him and in, or most likely its a turn over and its an odd man rush going the other way
  • Sega82mega
    2617 posts Member
    edited January 24


    Isn't puck interceptions too good if you can receive passes by driving your stick through one of your own leg...?

    But other then that.. how am I suppose to defend this play.. Im number 6..im to afraid that my own AI will leave the guy on far side open, (exactly what happen in this clip), especially when they put the puck out on their backhand, like he do.. So beacuse of that I cant just leave the puck carrier alone without any pressure and fall back and cover that guy that scores.

    I feel that you alone, have to be at 2-3 places at the same time sometimes, which of course is impossible.

    It's hard to say, but I dont think there's any good way to defend this type of plays(at least not for me) , and the only thing he did to get me out of position, was that awkward pass.



    And this; first off... It looks like the puck carrier is on he's way out of the arena, but decides in last second to leave the puck on the ice, so he just throws a blind backhand pass behind he's back.. (and to add: regarding my first clip were he could receive a pass by help of clipping hes own stick through the leg.. You could think my player thats closest to the puck when he makes that pass behind he's back, could at least pick up that puck.. Gliding away with just an inch from he's stick)

    And then at first my defense looks tight, almost as their born with the same body.. And to go from that.. To role out the red carpet in a second, and just let the puck carrier walks through... looks strange.

    I would like to see the A.I standing still sometimes, to cover skate lines. It's like they are forbiden to be in the way.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4139 posts EA Community Manager
    So this is EA's goal of the week:



    Not a cross-crease goal, but definitely a showcase of one of the major issues contributing to the success of the cross-crease: Insane accuracy on a no-look pass.

    Must have been Crosby in that clip! Almost an identical play.



    If no look goals can happen I don't see why passes shouldn't? As far as I'm aware the type of pass you see in that play of the week will have a limitation on how much power you'll be able to force it to the other player but it's still up to the user in aiming in the right direction with the stick to be in control of how accurate it is.

  • Sega82mega
    2617 posts Member
    edited January 24
    For me - the problem isn't that you - can - do "no-look" passes, of course you should be able to do that... The problem is how successful it is. In IRL NHL, when this happens, it's a big deal, but not as much in this game.

    And I would also say it's easier to defend this kinda passes in real life.

    For me it would be more rare, to see a clip from the game where this blind passes gets picked up by defenders.

    And not to mention... hook blind passes + the one-timer power = deadly weapon. Really without having to show any remakable skill moves.

    But thats my opinion, and im really against this play. To unreal for my taste.

    - the game should encourage people to play with their frontside against each other.
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