And how is your video helping to fix the issues? You managed to deflect a pass once, and that's supposed to prove it's only 'gid good' issue? Well, here's a cookie for your trouble.
All you're 'helping' is sweeping the issue under the rug.
And how is your video helping to fix the issues? You managed to deflect a pass once, and that's supposed to prove it's only 'gid good' issue? Well, here's a cookie for your trouble.
All you're 'helping' is sweeping the issue under the rug.
Yikes.
Look - 90% of the time in EASHL - if you can't defend the cross crease, you're making mistakes defensively.
I've made that poke check countless times in EASHL - I just captured one instance to show it's possible to play defence properly.
in 1v1 modes, the A.i. has some serious issues defending in front of the net.
So yea.. there's me sweeping my issues with the game under the rug...
So my videos are helping with more issues than just the cross crease - and I don't need to brag about my teams success either because it's irrelevant. Although I will say being ranked in the top 200 players in OVP gives me some credibility.
Also it's telling that the arguments here are all about how to stop the cross crease from happening and literally zero discussion about stopping the cross crease from developing.
Huge difference in defensive effectiveness when you approach it properly. Some people in this thread are sweeping their inability to prevent the play from developing under the rug, I guess.
- Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.
As you can see, driving Bergeron towards the board is a bad move, as he can make his stick immaterial (Bauer Vapor maybe), and move it handily through my d-man's both legs, and then just pick up the puck which has followed his stick through the legs, and ONLY then is dislodged. EA, it's indagame, just like the NHL elite does it right?
But not to worry, because my d-man Weber is there to take care of the waiting Panarin. So he holds his guy (not), and then tries to poke the puck away (not). Then Panarin, without being least bit inconvenienced by the happenings, throws a snap shot and scores. Never mind Weber's stick or the fact that Panarin's shot animation goes THROUGH Weber's legs. So yeah....
I am just stunned when I see this happening on a daily basis (this game happened two hours ago). Ok, it was Squad Battle which everyone know is the game that is the worst mode stacked against you. But that this can actually happen at all is just mind-boggling.
And then we're given explanations about why it happened, you did this and that wrong, and so the sticks and bodies have to be incorporeal in those situations... because why, you can't code it any better EA?
In my eyes, this game will always remain a horrible joke on NHL, as long as this is allowed to go on. And it seems it will never be 'fixed'.
How is it not obvious that you missed the body check? You're holding body check for so many frames when what you should've been doing is using DSS to get him to the boards and then throw a body check.
You need to get body positioning first and then throw a body check.
You are trying to throw a body check while nowhere near the carrier and you're relying on the magnetic force that's applied when pressing body check to get that body positioning
Like you're holding body check for so long here - what skill is involved in using the body check's magnetic force to get close to the puck carrier? None - that's why DSS works much better.
Yes, the clipping is awful but we've been given explanations as to why this is currently happening - of course the hockey IQ gods don't understand that video game physics will never be real world identical -- so they just argue with those explanations.
But you clearly missed the body check here and you pulled a guy out of position to throw that horrendous body check.
That goal was awful, I'll give you that. I post a bunch of examples of my issues with this specific problem here.
Like I said, you can 'explain' why this happened, and that's always the route the yes-men take. Because this and that, and then boom, suddenly bodies, sticks, skates and the puck get incorporeal, AND ITS YOUR FAULT DUDE; GIT GOOD!!!
And then you (in plural, not just you specifically Kid) try to sell the idea that puck physics will never get to the level of reality that objects would be physically solid all the time. That's like admitting defeat, that this game will never be realistic and therefore never be any better?
I claim it's not impossible, but for some reason the devs just don't want to do it, or can't do it.
If you look at that video I posted, in just that short moment there's multiple incorporeal instances happening. Too dang many! If only one of them hadn't happened, the goal would not have taken place, or at least it would have played completely different.
Like I said, you can 'explain' why this happened, and that's always the route the yes-men take. Because this and that, and then boom, suddenly bodies, sticks, skates and the puck get incorporeal, AND ITS YOUR FAULT DUDE; GIT GOOD!!!
And then you (in plural, not just you specifically Kid) try to sell the idea that puck physics will never get to the level of reality that objects would be physically solid all the time. That's like admitting defeat, that this game will never be realistic and therefore never be any better?
I claim it's not impossible, but for some reason the devs just don't want to do it, or can't do it.
If you look at that video I posted, in just that short moment there's multiple incorporeal instances happening. Too dang many! If only one of them hadn't happened, the goal would not have taken place, or at least it would have played completely different.
I totally get your point and agree to an extent.
I don’t feel it’s “giving up” to admit real-world physics in their entirety won’t make an appearance in the NHL series - or ANY sports title for that matter. It’s just not realistic to expect a game engine - especially one as old as the NHL one - to have 100% real physics.
I think the goal is always to mimic those physics as much as possible and in doing so, you’re going to have instances like you’ve posted where things make you go “huh?”
That said - my arguments are more about working with the tools we all have available to us. I don’t want the game dumbed down because a vocal minority aren’t using the tools properly and effectively.
Again - this game ain’t perfect and I’ve got my own issues with the game that I’ve pointed out with video examples and detailed explanation.
However, the cross crease issue comes down to more defensive responsibility (for the most part) and the community seems to be struggling with this.
Well yes, when it comes down to it we can agree THIS engine will never be like that. So I want a new engine, and the next gen is the final chance this game has. But I guess that is unrealistic, since EA just keeps pushing these games every year with minimal budget (as I am given to understand)? Giving new shiny objects to distract us from the dismal state of this game just wont work for ever. (Or maybe it will, I dunno - we NHL gamers aren't very bright, are we?)
The trouble with working with the current tools is that they work only half the time at best, as in the video, that is when they're actually solid in this game. But yes, I am still playing the game, and even having fun at times. And I am intercepting passes too. But win or lose, there's always those moments when all you can do is shake your head in disgust.
I cant force people to play a certain way, but truth is, many of us play this game the exact opposite way of how this game structure is build to work, and then when the game finally breaks, call it overloaded or whatever, then it's easy to blame the game.
No self responsibility, only the game/developers fault.
- Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.
As you can see, driving Bergeron towards the board is a bad move, as he can make his stick immaterial (Bauer Vapor maybe), and move it handily through my d-man's both legs, and then just pick up the puck which has followed his stick through the legs, and ONLY then is dislodged. EA, it's indagame, just like the NHL elite does it right?
But not to worry, because my d-man Weber is there to take care of the waiting Panarin. So he holds his guy (not), and then tries to poke the puck away (not). Then Panarin, without being least bit inconvenienced by the happenings, throws a snap shot and scores. Never mind Weber's stick or the fact that Panarin's shot animation goes THROUGH Weber's legs. So yeah....
I am just stunned when I see this happening on a daily basis (this game happened two hours ago). Ok, it was Squad Battle which everyone know is the game that is the worst mode stacked against you. But that this can actually happen at all is just mind-boggling.
And then we're given explanations about why it happened, you did this and that wrong, and so the sticks and bodies have to be incorporeal in those situations... because why, you can't code it any better EA?
In my eyes, this game will always remain a horrible joke on NHL, as long as this is allowed to go on. And it seems it will never be 'fixed'.
Bubble hit. Check. The puck-handler doesn't even stumble.
Your animation taking you out of the play. Check.
Stick through legs. Check.
Automatic reach, grab, and retain. Check.
Perfect reception by a covered forward in the slot. Check.
Phantom poke check. Check.
Shooter's stick ignoring the body in front of it to get a full speed, fully elevated shot for a goal that would've been impossible IRL. Check.
So much salt in this thread. And bragging about your EASHL team's accomplishments while degrading video examples is going to go such a long way in helping provide examples to fix these issues
How can I be salty when I've obviously adapted to the game, can win, can score but am advocating for making the game more difficult for the offense? That doesn't even make sense. I'm salty for trying to make the game more difficult for myself??
Also, what you call bragging is highlighting the rampart, uncontrolled offense of this game. Poor defensive mechanics, OP offensive mechanics, and terrible goalies are the culprit of absurdly high scoring games. I mean, is this the kind of game you really want?
It takes one zoomy cross-crease pass to let the D-men know that it's futile to try and poke passes. Especially when you're the last D-man back. You post these clips saying that X is possible, Y is possible, and no one is disagreeing with you, but at the higher levels of play, people don't try to poke passes because forwards aren't so obvious that a pass is coming. It's also not done at 2 MPH.
Yes, there are stick clipping issues and sometimes these cross-crease passes get through when they shouldn't. However, you CAN stop this stuff. I personally LOVE playing against people who do this ad nauseum. We are 12-1 in our last 13 and it is because this meta is easily destructible. The people who do this A. suck and B. can be defeated.
I would assume this problem is amplified in 1 v1 modes though. Hence me not ever playing them.
These happen ALL OF THE TIME. It's as if you have to face upwards to intercept the pass.
Your best bet would have been to stick lift/tie up the first one. Hoping for an interception there is futile, usually. From what I have seen, you need to not be moving in any way to activate a puck pick-up right there.
The second one shows the typical Cheller in action. Who wants a breakaway? Nah, I will pull up and exploit the game instead. There is nothing EA can do about this. This is people for ya. Imagine being such a coward? I truly feel sorry for those of you who have to play these modes.
You could have L1'd, stick lifted, tied up for that one though. Again, you cannot be moving when you want to make an interception on these plays.
I guarantee the people who made the second play have never been punched in the face before and/or left their mothers basement.
The only thing is that why should I have to do those things? L1 this year is inconsistent in its timing (sometimes it takes a while to drop down and other times it goes down quick like last year) and then you're susceptible to the saucer pass. Stick lift is too risky from those angles in regards to taking a penalty. Pokecheck is an option but I stopped moving on the other one to make the interception easier and it still doesn't work.
Orrrrrrrr EA could just properly tune their interceptions and hey we have a much more realistic hockey experience.
- Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.
As you can see, driving Bergeron towards the board is a bad move, as he can make his stick immaterial (Bauer Vapor maybe), and move it handily through my d-man's both legs, and then just pick up the puck which has followed his stick through the legs, and ONLY then is dislodged. EA, it's indagame, just like the NHL elite does it right?
But not to worry, because my d-man Weber is there to take care of the waiting Panarin. So he holds his guy (not), and then tries to poke the puck away (not). Then Panarin, without being least bit inconvenienced by the happenings, throws a snap shot and scores. Never mind Weber's stick or the fact that Panarin's shot animation goes THROUGH Weber's legs. So yeah....
I am just stunned when I see this happening on a daily basis (this game happened two hours ago). Ok, it was Squad Battle which everyone know is the game that is the worst mode stacked against you. But that this can actually happen at all is just mind-boggling.
And then we're given explanations about why it happened, you did this and that wrong, and so the sticks and bodies have to be incorporeal in those situations... because why, you can't code it any better EA?
In my eyes, this game will always remain a horrible joke on NHL, as long as this is allowed to go on. And it seems it will never be 'fixed'.
How is it not obvious that you missed the body check? You're holding body check for so many frames when what you should've been doing is using DSS to get him to the boards and then throw a body check.
You need to get body positioning first and then throw a body check.
You are trying to throw a body check while nowhere near the carrier and you're relying on the magnetic force that's applied when pressing body check to get that body positioning
Like you're holding body check for so long here - what skill is involved in using the body check's magnetic force to get close to the puck carrier? None - that's why DSS works much better.
Yes, the clipping is awful but we've been given explanations as to why this is currently happening - of course the hockey IQ gods don't understand that video game physics will never be real world identical -- so they just argue with those explanations.
But you clearly missed the body check here and you pulled a guy out of position to throw that horrendous body check.
That goal was awful, I'll give you that. I post a bunch of examples of my issues with this specific problem here.
I disagree. if you are close enough to reach out and touch you are close enough to "initiate body contact". My son was a 5'11 devastating checker that in exactly this situation here in your picture, a second later the puck carrier was bouncing off the boards. The animation is ugly, you have to swing around to check him square up rather than laterally. But the positioning is sound.
But thats not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the animation bounces off the player like they aren't there, carries through the puck carriers arms, stick and puck and has almost no affect other than for a small split second the carriers stick disengages from the puck and immediately picks it back up. in real life the puck would go flying, the stick and arm contact on the body check would absolutely disrupt everything the carrier is doing, likely pinning him back away from the puck towards the boards a bit.
This happens all over the ice. Skating through the puck carriers arms, stick and puck and the only affect it has is basically the same as defender passing through like a ghost.
This is another example of poor physics. Also an example of a hill I won't die on. But it needs to be pointed out and attempts made to correct it every year. Sure you can do a better job to line up a devastating blow but stop dismissing this as proper mechanics when it absolutely is not.
The only thing is that why should I have to do those things? L1 this year is inconsistent in its timing (sometimes it takes a while to drop down and other times it goes down quick like last year) and then you're susceptible to the saucer pass. Stick lift is too risky from those angles in regards to taking a penalty. Pokecheck is an option but I stopped moving on the other one to make the interception easier and it still doesn't work.
Orrrrrrrr EA could just properly tune their interceptions and hey we have a much more realistic hockey experience.
Either or.
L1 is definitely inconsistent...BUT...most people won't use a saucer pass. I would bet 5% of the community actually does in this meta. In EASHL 6's (different tuning of course) I stick lift like a fiend and rarely take a penalty. DSS can work but you have to be in perfect positioning.
I agree, worrying about things like gliding, skate pivots, and not moving to intercept passes is stuff we should not be worrying about considering we are controlling players with a controller. Not really the best way to think about stuff. It is what it is though.
The best thing they SHOULD do is to make one timers more difficult. Make a skill gap, as they like to say. Simply pressing up and NOT worrying about gliding, pivots, balance, etc. is pretty weak-sauce. You should see players fanning/not getting good contact when the passes are slightly off. Then we can talk about a challenge. Pressing up = too easy and is INCONSISTENT with the message they tell us.
- Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.
As you can see, driving Bergeron towards the board is a bad move, as he can make his stick immaterial (Bauer Vapor maybe), and move it handily through my d-man's both legs, and then just pick up the puck which has followed his stick through the legs, and ONLY then is dislodged. EA, it's indagame, just like the NHL elite does it right?
But not to worry, because my d-man Weber is there to take care of the waiting Panarin. So he holds his guy (not), and then tries to poke the puck away (not). Then Panarin, without being least bit inconvenienced by the happenings, throws a snap shot and scores. Never mind Weber's stick or the fact that Panarin's shot animation goes THROUGH Weber's legs. So yeah....
I am just stunned when I see this happening on a daily basis (this game happened two hours ago). Ok, it was Squad Battle which everyone know is the game that is the worst mode stacked against you. But that this can actually happen at all is just mind-boggling.
And then we're given explanations about why it happened, you did this and that wrong, and so the sticks and bodies have to be incorporeal in those situations... because why, you can't code it any better EA?
In my eyes, this game will always remain a horrible joke on NHL, as long as this is allowed to go on. And it seems it will never be 'fixed'.
Bubble hit. Check. The puck-handler doesn't even stumble.
Your animation taking you out of the play. Check.
Stick through legs. Check.
Automatic reach, grab, and retain. Check.
Perfect reception by a covered forward in the slot. Check.
Phantom poke check. Check.
Shooter's stick ignoring the body in front of it to get a full speed, fully elevated shot for a goal that would've been impossible IRL. Check.
These happen ALL OF THE TIME. It's as if you have to face upwards to intercept the pass.
Both are examples that could swing either way in real life. Sometimes it gets through sometimes it doesn't. In this game it rarely getting disrupted.
Basically both are passes to the skate area where near impossible to get the stick but also hard to get through skates.
I actually agree with this, however if they make the interceptions realistic like this but don't make accepting one-timers realistic and the passing realistic, then it's horrendously unbalanced in the forwards' favour. If this game was tuned realistically I'd actually be somewhat okay with this result.
These happen ALL OF THE TIME. It's as if you have to face upwards to intercept the pass.
Lol. If EASHL is a toss up, Drop 3s is where hockey common sense goes to die. I'm addicted to 3s though, but will only play it with people I know. Unless you randomly find people that know what to do, D-men die in 3s.
Replies
All you're 'helping' is sweeping the issue under the rug.
Yikes.
Look - 90% of the time in EASHL - if you can't defend the cross crease, you're making mistakes defensively.
I've made that poke check countless times in EASHL - I just captured one instance to show it's possible to play defence properly.
in 1v1 modes, the A.i. has some serious issues defending in front of the net.
Also - I have a few examples of how to defend this stuff right here. and more here - Along with a lot of other things I like and dislike about the game.
So yea.. there's me sweeping my issues with the game under the rug...
So my videos are helping with more issues than just the cross crease - and I don't need to brag about my teams success either because it's irrelevant. Although I will say being ranked in the top 200 players in OVP gives me some credibility.
Also it's telling that the arguments here are all about how to stop the cross crease from happening and literally zero discussion about stopping the cross crease from developing.
Huge difference in defensive effectiveness when you approach it properly. Some people in this thread are sweeping their inability to prevent the play from developing under the rug, I guess.
How is it not obvious that you missed the body check? You're holding body check for so many frames when what you should've been doing is using DSS to get him to the boards and then throw a body check.
You need to get body positioning first and then throw a body check.
You are trying to throw a body check while nowhere near the carrier and you're relying on the magnetic force that's applied when pressing body check to get that body positioning
Like you're holding body check for so long here - what skill is involved in using the body check's magnetic force to get close to the puck carrier? None - that's why DSS works much better.
Yes, the clipping is awful but we've been given explanations as to why this is currently happening - of course the hockey IQ gods don't understand that video game physics will never be real world identical -- so they just argue with those explanations.
But you clearly missed the body check here and you pulled a guy out of position to throw that horrendous body check.
That goal was awful, I'll give you that. I post a bunch of examples of my issues with this specific problem here.
And then you (in plural, not just you specifically Kid) try to sell the idea that puck physics will never get to the level of reality that objects would be physically solid all the time. That's like admitting defeat, that this game will never be realistic and therefore never be any better?
I claim it's not impossible, but for some reason the devs just don't want to do it, or can't do it.
If you look at that video I posted, in just that short moment there's multiple incorporeal instances happening. Too dang many! If only one of them hadn't happened, the goal would not have taken place, or at least it would have played completely different.
I totally get your point and agree to an extent.
I don’t feel it’s “giving up” to admit real-world physics in their entirety won’t make an appearance in the NHL series - or ANY sports title for that matter. It’s just not realistic to expect a game engine - especially one as old as the NHL one - to have 100% real physics.
I think the goal is always to mimic those physics as much as possible and in doing so, you’re going to have instances like you’ve posted where things make you go “huh?”
That said - my arguments are more about working with the tools we all have available to us. I don’t want the game dumbed down because a vocal minority aren’t using the tools properly and effectively.
Again - this game ain’t perfect and I’ve got my own issues with the game that I’ve pointed out with video examples and detailed explanation.
However, the cross crease issue comes down to more defensive responsibility (for the most part) and the community seems to be struggling with this.
The trouble with working with the current tools is that they work only half the time at best, as in the video, that is when they're actually solid in this game. But yes, I am still playing the game, and even having fun at times. And I am intercepting passes too. But win or lose, there's always those moments when all you can do is shake your head in disgust.
No self responsibility, only the game/developers fault.
Bubble hit. Check. The puck-handler doesn't even stumble.
Your animation taking you out of the play. Check.
Stick through legs. Check.
Automatic reach, grab, and retain. Check.
Perfect reception by a covered forward in the slot. Check.
Phantom poke check. Check.
Shooter's stick ignoring the body in front of it to get a full speed, fully elevated shot for a goal that would've been impossible IRL. Check.
Game's fine. /s
How can I be salty when I've obviously adapted to the game, can win, can score but am advocating for making the game more difficult for the offense? That doesn't even make sense. I'm salty for trying to make the game more difficult for myself??
Also, what you call bragging is highlighting the rampart, uncontrolled offense of this game. Poor defensive mechanics, OP offensive mechanics, and terrible goalies are the culprit of absurdly high scoring games. I mean, is this the kind of game you really want?
It takes one zoomy cross-crease pass to let the D-men know that it's futile to try and poke passes. Especially when you're the last D-man back. You post these clips saying that X is possible, Y is possible, and no one is disagreeing with you, but at the higher levels of play, people don't try to poke passes because forwards aren't so obvious that a pass is coming. It's also not done at 2 MPH.
I would assume this problem is amplified in 1 v1 modes though. Hence me not ever playing them.
😉
Here's another example, it's even a slow pass. I figured I was just gonna pick it up. Should have poked after I guess.
These happen ALL OF THE TIME. It's as if you have to face upwards to intercept the pass.
Your best bet would have been to stick lift/tie up the first one. Hoping for an interception there is futile, usually. From what I have seen, you need to not be moving in any way to activate a puck pick-up right there.
The second one shows the typical Cheller in action. Who wants a breakaway? Nah, I will pull up and exploit the game instead. There is nothing EA can do about this. This is people for ya. Imagine being such a coward? I truly feel sorry for those of you who have to play these modes.
You could have L1'd, stick lifted, tied up for that one though. Again, you cannot be moving when you want to make an interception on these plays.
I guarantee the people who made the second play have never been punched in the face before and/or left their mothers basement.
Total losers.
Orrrrrrrr EA could just properly tune their interceptions and hey we have a much more realistic hockey experience.
Either or.
I disagree. if you are close enough to reach out and touch you are close enough to "initiate body contact". My son was a 5'11 devastating checker that in exactly this situation here in your picture, a second later the puck carrier was bouncing off the boards. The animation is ugly, you have to swing around to check him square up rather than laterally. But the positioning is sound.
But thats not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the animation bounces off the player like they aren't there, carries through the puck carriers arms, stick and puck and has almost no affect other than for a small split second the carriers stick disengages from the puck and immediately picks it back up. in real life the puck would go flying, the stick and arm contact on the body check would absolutely disrupt everything the carrier is doing, likely pinning him back away from the puck towards the boards a bit.
This happens all over the ice. Skating through the puck carriers arms, stick and puck and the only affect it has is basically the same as defender passing through like a ghost.
This is another example of poor physics. Also an example of a hill I won't die on. But it needs to be pointed out and attempts made to correct it every year. Sure you can do a better job to line up a devastating blow but stop dismissing this as proper mechanics when it absolutely is not.
L1 is definitely inconsistent...BUT...most people won't use a saucer pass. I would bet 5% of the community actually does in this meta. In EASHL 6's (different tuning of course) I stick lift like a fiend and rarely take a penalty. DSS can work but you have to be in perfect positioning.
I agree, worrying about things like gliding, skate pivots, and not moving to intercept passes is stuff we should not be worrying about considering we are controlling players with a controller. Not really the best way to think about stuff. It is what it is though.
The best thing they SHOULD do is to make one timers more difficult. Make a skill gap, as they like to say. Simply pressing up and NOT worrying about gliding, pivots, balance, etc. is pretty weak-sauce. You should see players fanning/not getting good contact when the passes are slightly off. Then we can talk about a challenge. Pressing up = too easy and is INCONSISTENT with the message they tell us.
pretty much nailed it
Both are examples that could swing either way in real life. Sometimes it gets through sometimes it doesn't. In this game it rarely getting disrupted.
Basically both are passes to the skate area where near impossible to get the stick but also hard to get through skates.
I actually agree with this, however if they make the interceptions realistic like this but don't make accepting one-timers realistic and the passing realistic, then it's horrendously unbalanced in the forwards' favour. If this game was tuned realistically I'd actually be somewhat okay with this result.
Lol. If EASHL is a toss up, Drop 3s is where hockey common sense goes to die. I'm addicted to 3s though, but will only play it with people I know. Unless you randomly find people that know what to do, D-men die in 3s.