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Defending in WOC

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I'm not sure if anyone is having the same problems, but defensemen aren't nearly as effective at picking up loose pucks or picking off errant passes when they're positionally sound. How am I supposed to be effective when I rely on the game's animations to decide whether or not my character who is in a passing lane, facing a puck and ready to intercept gets possession?

EA--being a defenseman was frustrating enough in '20. Give us some credit for knowing where we need to be positionally. It's also time to nerf the effectiveness of the pokecheck.

Replies

  • Defending gets worse year after year. I thought last year was bad, but this....
    I like the new skating animations but they really mess with you when you have to play a game over 50+ms; all reaction time is gone as a result. Poke check at the wrong time and your defensive skating comes to a near complete stop. Passes go through the slot while you're staring at them, opponents DSS is over effective, and last but not least my biggest complaint: no matter how fast your speed and acceleration attributes are as a defenseman, you will always get beat to the puck by a forward that has lower speed and acceleration. Why in the world as a 5'10" PMD am I beat at an even foot race with a 6'4" PFD?
  • EA just wants flashy goals, they care nothing for defense
  • EA_Aljo
    2676 posts EA Community Manager
    mad3hojo wrote: »
    EA just wants flashy goals, they care nothing for defense

    There are defensive tools at your disposal. If you're used to just standing in the lane and intercepting, that's not going to work as well as manually defending. I think defense is more fun this year because it forces you to take a more active role. Poke check and DSS work better. It's been really satisfying to break up cross-crease passes with a good poke or swipe of the stick. It's also been fun breaking up plays before they happen. Playing the carrier closer and causing a turnover has worked really well.

    This is also something we heard complaints about from the community. They wanted a more sim style game with less automation and more accountability for your actions.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    mad3hojo wrote: »
    EA just wants flashy goals, they care nothing for defense

    There are defensive tools at your disposal. If you're used to just standing in the lane and intercepting, that's not going to work as well as manually defending. I think defense is more fun this year because it forces you to take a more active role. Poke check and DSS work better. It's been really satisfying to break up cross-crease passes with a good poke or swipe of the stick. It's also been fun breaking up plays before they happen. Playing the carrier closer and causing a turnover has worked really well.

    This is also something we heard complaints about from the community. They wanted a more sim style game with less automation and more accountability for your actions.

    What community?

    Us in the forums trying to make the game better, or YouTube influencers?

    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?
  • EA_Aljo
    2676 posts EA Community Manager
    88BigTim88 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    mad3hojo wrote: »
    EA just wants flashy goals, they care nothing for defense

    There are defensive tools at your disposal. If you're used to just standing in the lane and intercepting, that's not going to work as well as manually defending. I think defense is more fun this year because it forces you to take a more active role. Poke check and DSS work better. It's been really satisfying to break up cross-crease passes with a good poke or swipe of the stick. It's also been fun breaking up plays before they happen. Playing the carrier closer and causing a turnover has worked really well.

    This is also something we heard complaints about from the community. They wanted a more sim style game with less automation and more accountability for your actions.

    What community?

    Us in the forums trying to make the game better, or YouTube influencers?

    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?

    From various sources. We don't only listen to influencers. This forum especially has a large sim community that has wanted less automation and a higher skill gap. Defenders that are good at breaking up these plays are going to be a much bigger threat than those that just stand in the lane.

    There are still people intercepting passes. There's also been a lot of clips posted by @KidShowtime1867. If you see the puck passing through your stick, get some video so we can review it. Otherwise, facing the puck will raise your chances of an interception. We're also hearing holding LT/L2 will help, but I haven't experimented Specifically with not holding it in as being on defense I'm using it a lot.
  • 88BigTim88 wrote: »
    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?

    No - what we're seeing is that simply standing there and doing nothing will no longer result in your player automatically intercepting.

    You need to be active:

    https://i.imgur.com/eJkgURa.gif
  • 88BigTim88 wrote: »
    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?

    No - what we're seeing is that simply standing there and doing nothing will no longer result in your player automatically intercepting.

    You need to be active:

    https://i.imgur.com/eJkgURa.gif

    Yeah that was fine, your stick was in the lane and the puck didn't go through it, so you got the interception. That's what I meant. In that clip you just happened to be moving because it was a rush. I would assume the same thing would happen if you were actively standing by the net with your stick in the lane in a different scenario, like on a PK.
  • 88BigTim88 wrote: »
    88BigTim88 wrote: »
    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?

    No - what we're seeing is that simply standing there and doing nothing will no longer result in your player automatically intercepting.

    You need to be active:

    https://i.imgur.com/eJkgURa.gif

    Yeah that was fine, your stick was in the lane and the puck didn't go through it, so you got the interception. That's what I meant. In that clip you just happened to be moving because it was a rush. I would assume the same thing would happen if you were actively standing by the net with your stick in the lane in a different scenario, like on a PK.

    I guess the point is you should never be 'standing'. You should be actively doing something - whether it's making minor adjustments to your position by feathering the left stick or using DSS and timing an R3 poke with a pass to disrupt it - you just have to be active in defending.

    Previously you could just sit in the slot and intercept everything - now you need to be active.
  • 88BigTim88 wrote: »
    88BigTim88 wrote: »
    Standing in the lane and intercepting happens in every single real NHL game. Are you saying the puck will go through my stick if I don't actively press a defensive button?

    No - what we're seeing is that simply standing there and doing nothing will no longer result in your player automatically intercepting.

    You need to be active:

    https://i.imgur.com/eJkgURa.gif

    Yeah that was fine, your stick was in the lane and the puck didn't go through it, so you got the interception. That's what I meant. In that clip you just happened to be moving because it was a rush. I would assume the same thing would happen if you were actively standing by the net with your stick in the lane in a different scenario, like on a PK.

    I guess the point is you should never be 'standing'. You should be actively doing something - whether it's making minor adjustments to your position by feathering the left stick or using DSS and timing an R3 poke with a pass to disrupt it - you just have to be active in defending.

    Previously you could just sit in the slot and intercept everything - now you need to be active.

    Yes I didn't mean standing there like you put your controller down. Meant it more like you're staying in position, keeping an eye on the front of the net and also making sure your stick is in the passing lanes.
  • > @EA_Aljo said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > There are defensive tools at your disposal. If you're used to just standing in the lane and intercepting, that's not going to work as well as manually defending. I think defense is more fun this year because it forces you to take a more active role. Poke check and DSS work better. It's been really satisfying to break up cross-crease passes with a good poke or swipe of the stick. It's also been fun breaking up plays before they happen. Playing the carrier closer and causing a turnover has worked really well.
    >
    > This is also something we heard complaints about from the community. They wanted a more sim style game with less automation and more accountability for your actions.

    Simple question: How often do you see players attempt cross-crease passes through a completely clogged slot in real hockey? It happens once in a blue moon by the most skilled playmakers in the game and is successful even less often. Why? Because professional hockey players can pick up passes when they're in position to do so. If you want to make this a more "manual" experience, add a pass intercept button or something (still terrible but preferable to having our D-men reacting to pucks like actual pylons)

    Pucks are being successfully passed through MULTIPLE players in position on a regular basis - and yes they are facing the puck. In replays you can watch your skater literally stare at the puck as it drifts past him without moving his stick. It's insanity.

    I wish I could believe the dev team was really trying to give us a SIM-like defensive experience but the fact that you also made goalies abysmal at tracking the cross-crease makes me think you just wanted to reward bad hockey for the casual fans of the series. How about requiring "manual input" for puck battles from FORWARDS who can lazily charge in the zone and recover the puck automatically several times despite being pressured perfectly by defenders until their precious cross-crease opportunity arises? This game in its current form in no way resembles real hockey. Taking shots from the point is useless. Cycling the puck is mostly meaningless when you only score on 5% of shots taken from dangerous areas that aren't cross-crease tap-ins.

    Last year the cross-crease interceptions were tuned in a sensible way that actually forced teams to play something resembling real team hockey. I can't believe you could have ever in a million years looked at that game and come to the conclusion that brain-dead cross crease passes needed to make a major comeback.

    Lastly your servers are NOT good enough to allow us the precision required to "actively" defend players - by which I mean needing to be INSIDE THEM to stop them from receiving passes perfectly through traffic. It's difficult enough in low latency games, let alone 50+ms. Maybe if you improved the player tie up function so that we could prevent them from darting all over the place waiting for the tiniest bit of separation to receive a pass and easily beat the goalie... but I'm not holding my breath for that.

    I can't see how you can actually defend this. It's not hockey. It's crap for kids who want easy goals. You know it and everyone else knows it.
  • EA_Aljo
    2676 posts EA Community Manager
    TIGERC00L wrote: »
    > @EA_Aljo said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > There are defensive tools at your disposal. If you're used to just standing in the lane and intercepting, that's not going to work as well as manually defending. I think defense is more fun this year because it forces you to take a more active role. Poke check and DSS work better. It's been really satisfying to break up cross-crease passes with a good poke or swipe of the stick. It's also been fun breaking up plays before they happen. Playing the carrier closer and causing a turnover has worked really well.
    >
    > This is also something we heard complaints about from the community. They wanted a more sim style game with less automation and more accountability for your actions.

    Simple question: How often do you see players attempt cross-crease passes through a completely clogged slot in real hockey? It happens once in a blue moon by the most skilled playmakers in the game and is successful even less often. Why? Because professional hockey players can pick up passes when they're in position to do so. If you want to make this a more "manual" experience, add a pass intercept button or something (still terrible but preferable to having our D-men reacting to pucks like actual pylons)

    Pucks are being successfully passed through MULTIPLE players in position on a regular basis - and yes they are facing the puck. In replays you can watch your skater literally stare at the puck as it drifts past him without moving his stick. It's insanity.

    I wish I could believe the dev team was really trying to give us a SIM-like defensive experience but the fact that you also made goalies abysmal at tracking the cross-crease makes me think you just wanted to reward bad hockey for the casual fans of the series. How about requiring "manual input" for puck battles from FORWARDS who can lazily charge in the zone and recover the puck automatically several times despite being pressured perfectly by defenders until their precious cross-crease opportunity arises? This game in its current form in no way resembles real hockey. Taking shots from the point is useless. Cycling the puck is mostly meaningless when you only score on 5% of shots taken from dangerous areas that aren't cross-crease tap-ins.

    Last year the cross-crease interceptions were tuned in a sensible way that actually forced teams to play something resembling real team hockey. I can't believe you could have ever in a million years looked at that game and come to the conclusion that brain-dead cross crease passes needed to make a major comeback.

    Lastly your servers are NOT good enough to allow us the precision required to "actively" defend players - by which I mean needing to be INSIDE THEM to stop them from receiving passes perfectly through traffic. It's difficult enough in low latency games, let alone 50+ms. Maybe if you improved the player tie up function so that we could prevent them from darting all over the place waiting for the tiniest bit of separation to receive a pass and easily beat the goalie... but I'm not holding my breath for that.

    I can't see how you can actually defend this. It's not hockey. It's crap for kids who want easy goals. You know it and everyone else knows it.

    I play on average of 55 - 65 ms and haven't had a problem defending, but I also am an aggressive defender. I often attack the carrier and try to break up that play before it happens. If I can't do that, sometimes I'll lift the stick of the player looking to receive the pass. Sometimes I can tie up their stick. Very frequently I use DSS to break up the pass. There are multiple ways to defend this play, but if you just stand in the path and hope to auto-intercept, your chances are probably lower then actively defending. Holding in LT/L2 and facing the puck has been working well for many.
  • TIGERC00L
    8 posts New member
    edited November 2020
    [quote="EA_Aljo;c-2165737"]> @EA_Aljo said:
    > (Quote)
    >

    I play on average of 55 - 65 ms and haven't had a problem defending, but I also am an aggressive defender. I often attack the carrier and try to break up that play before it happens. If I can't do that, sometimes I'll lift the stick of the player looking to receive the pass. Sometimes I can tie up their stick. Very frequently I use DSS to break up the pass. There are multiple ways to defend this play, but if you just stand in the path and hope to auto-intercept, your chances are probably lower then actively defending. Holding in LT/L2 and facing the puck has been working well for many. [/quote]

    What is your rank? What division do you play in? Do you play 6s ans 3s with a regular team or drop in? I've been a div 1 player for many years and primarily a defenceman for the last couple. I am facing high quality teams who are becoming incredibly proficient at setting up the cross crease by any means necessary - note: not playing better hockey. Perfecting one play. You can puck rag and place your other forwards almost behind the red line and still score from obscene angles because the goalie is so incompetent on these plays.

    The precision required and difficulty of consistantly covering these plays coupled with the near guarantee of a goal on their execution means it is nearly all that forwards skaters are attempting to do. You still haven't addressed the fact that taking traditional high danger shots in this mode is almost useless. What do you expect the game to turn into under these circumstances? It's not fun and it's not hockey.
    Post edited by EA_Blueberry on
  • what the hell am I missing with the quatation function on this forum?
  • EA_Aljo
    2676 posts EA Community Manager
    TIGERC00L wrote: »
    I play on average of 55 - 65 ms and haven't had a problem defending, but I also am an aggressive defender. I often attack the carrier and try to break up that play before it happens. If I can't do that, sometimes I'll lift the stick of the player looking to receive the pass. Sometimes I can tie up their stick. Very frequently I use DSS to break up the pass. There are multiple ways to defend this play, but if you just stand in the path and hope to auto-intercept, your chances are probably lower then actively defending. Holding in LT/L2 and facing the puck has been working well for many
    What is your rank? What division do you play in? Do you play 6s ans 3s with a regular team or drop in? I've been a div 1 player for many years and primarily a defenceman for the last couple. I am facing high quality teams who are becoming incredibly proficient at setting up the cross crease by any means necessary - note: not playing better hockey. Perfecting one play. You can puck rag and place your other forwards almost behind the red line and still score from obscene angles because the goalie is so incompetent on these plays.

    The precision required and difficulty of consistantly covering these plays coupled with the near guarantee of a goal on their execution means it is nearly all that forwards skaters are attempting to do. You still haven't addressed the fact that taking traditional high danger shots in this mode is almost useless. What do you expect the game to turn into under these circumstances? It's not fun and it's not hockey.

    I mainly play 6s. I haven't been able to get in a ton of games yet so I'm still ranked pretty low. Regardless, these passes are still the same whether you're in Div 1 or not. Of course, some players are higher-skilled and will make better passes, but they can still be broken up using the methods I described. When I go up against players that insist on doing the same thing over and over again, I adjust my play to better defend them. In most cases, they're looking for an open lane to make the pass. By covering those lanes or the area of the ice they are consistently looking to get to in order to make that pass, I break up most of their attempts.

    What high danger shots are you talking about? I still see variety in scoring. Yes, the majority of them are one-timers, but there are still teams using deflections, wrist shots, slap shots, etc. There is a very long history of people finding what works for them and sticking to that. My team tends to mix it up and look for good plays rather than forcing cross-ice passes for one-timers. We like to get creative with our play rather than employ the win at all costs mentality that many have.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4337 posts EA Community Manager
    TIGERC00L wrote: »
    what the hell am I missing with the quatation function on this forum?

    I tried to fix this for you but something may be up here we'll need to raise to our forum admins. I take it you're hitting the quote button and just adding your text underneath it?
  • TTZ_Dipsy
    479 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    The only good thing about defending was incidental puck pickups and the ability to get into a lane and have a decent chance of stopping a pass but now we have none of that; best thing to do is just outscore your opponents now.

    I keep bringing this up but dedicated builds are in such a **** poor state for teams that have less human ayers - we're forced to play beyond our build's abilities and it really shows with defensive stats. Speed is a massive factor this year and only snipers and playmakers can reach the near gamebreaking levels (huge difference between a 90 and 88 compared to last year), and their 70 defensive aware just doesn't cut it. Pucks just go right through you and its infuriating.

    I understand the whole pro and con dynamic but even the worst player should be able to block thr puck when positioned perfectly.

    50 games in my buddy and I are at 200 points each.. care to guess how many of our goals were from cross creases? I'm thr kind of guy who likes to just fire it at the net because I think more along thr lines of actual hockey and good things should happen when the puck is close and I'm still at 33.8% in shot percentage because of easy passes along the side
  • EA_Blueberry
    4337 posts EA Community Manager
    @TIGERC00L

    Missed that you are new to the forums. This is a forum limitation until you become more active. Join in on some discussions and you should be able to use the quote feature soon.
  • [quote="EA_Aljo]
    I mainly play 6s. I haven't been able to get in a ton of games yet so I'm still ranked pretty low. Regardless, these passes are still the same whether you're in Div 1 or not. Of course, some players are higher-skilled and will make better passes, but they can still be broken up using the methods I described. When I go up against players that insist on doing the same thing over and over again, I adjust my play to better defend them. In most cases, they're looking for an open lane to make the pass. By covering those lanes or the area of the ice they are consistently looking to get to in order to make that pass, I break up most of their attempts.

    What high danger shots are you talking about? I still see variety in scoring. Yes, the majority of them are one-timers, but there are still teams using deflections, wrist shots, slap shots, etc. There is a very long history of people finding what works for them and sticking to that. My team tends to mix it up and look for good plays rather than forcing cross-ice passes for one-timers. We like to get creative with our play rather than employ the win at all costs mentality that many have.[/quote]

    Well maybe reserve judgement until you reach higher divisions (no offence intended) and see just how difficult it becomes to prevent a skilled team from pulling these passes off. We can do it too but where's the fun in having to run the same play over and over to compete?

    (quote)
    "they're looking for an open lane to make the pass. By covering those lanes or the area of the ice they are consistently looking to get to in order to make that pass, I break up most of their attempts."

    But this is exactly what we're talking about... covering those lanes is not consistently effective. I'd say it's effective less than 50% of the time which is a huge problem when those passes turn into goals 95% of the time.
  • Also the high danger chances I'm referring to are shots from the slot (even from snipers - and yes after settling), slapshots from the point with traffic in front, and any kind of one timer that isn't a tap in right beside the net. All have been very clearly nerfed. You can essentially concede the high danger shot to the puck carrier and cover his passing options and assume the shot will be saved. Taking high danger shots are basically giving up possession. this, again, makes for a pale imitation of hockey.
  • EA_Aljo
    2676 posts EA Community Manager
    TIGERC00L wrote: »
    "EA_Aljo wrote:
    I mainly play 6s. I haven't been able to get in a ton of games yet so I'm still ranked pretty low. Regardless, these passes are still the same whether you're in Div 1 or not. Of course, some players are higher-skilled and will make better passes, but they can still be broken up using the methods I described. When I go up against players that insist on doing the same thing over and over again, I adjust my play to better defend them. In most cases, they're looking for an open lane to make the pass. By covering those lanes or the area of the ice they are consistently looking to get to in order to make that pass, I break up most of their attempts.

    What high danger shots are you talking about? I still see variety in scoring. Yes, the majority of them are one-timers, but there are still teams using deflections, wrist shots, slap shots, etc. There is a very long history of people finding what works for them and sticking to that. My team tends to mix it up and look for good plays rather than forcing cross-ice passes for one-timers. We like to get creative with our play rather than employ the win at all costs mentality that many have.

    Well maybe reserve judgement until you reach higher divisions (no offence intended) and see just how difficult it becomes to prevent a skilled team from pulling these passes off. We can do it too but where's the fun in having to run the same play over and over to compete?

    (quote)
    "they're looking for an open lane to make the pass. By covering those lanes or the area of the ice they are consistently looking to get to in order to make that pass, I break up most of their attempts."

    But this is exactly what we're talking about... covering those lanes is not consistently effective. I'd say it's effective less than 50% of the time which is a huge problem when those passes turn into goals 95% of the time.

    I've played against some very skilled players and am still not having trouble defending. I'm not saying I never make mistakes. I do, but employing more manual defense methods have worked out better instead of just standing in the lane and expecting an interception.
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