Would love to have EA come up with a use on salaries. Each HUT card has a salary listed on it and the stats menu has your total team salary on it but what is the use in these numbers. It has absolutely no effect in HUT mode so why have it? It you are going to have this on your HUT cards at least come up with a use on it.
I like this idea. Maybe divisions/tiers/championship series or something based upon the total salary of your team. I have always wondered why the salaries are there if they don't have any purpose.
Maybe this would help spread out all the over exaggerated players. You won't be able to have an entire team of 98 overall or better players. Great idea.
@smyth9779 Many interesting points and observations raised in this thread overall.
I like the salary idea but it goes against the idea/grind of building the best team you can. That introduces a constraint where you will "max out" much earlier on. From an EA perspective that means less revenue and incentive for people to grind or buy packs (unless a salary cap was something you could raise over time or via objectives but that defeats your reasoning as the salary cap is supposed to level the playing field).
There are many problems with the team strengths though. My situation is I entered the game cycle late and my team isn't very good. I would like to see an option for any team to disable being matched against a side that is +X better than yours. So if I have an 84 team I'm not going to be matched against someone with a 96 rated team. Even if your "skill rating" is similar there is only going to be one outcome. I am finding it incredibly difficult to get playable games in Rivals as the team difference is so great and I have zero chance game after game after game. I play much less than I used to. It's already hard to find matches in Rivals as it is and you've basically taken me out of the player pool as... what's the point? Sell it to me.
But... having said that it goes against the mantra of "Ultimate Team" which I get. If you've built that 97 rated squad you are going to want to play it. With my 84 squad I don't want to play you and as soon as I suss that's what I'm up against I'll just quit the game at that point as I have nothing to play for (Rivals will penalise you with a small amount of rivals point as you get crushed in a game you have little chance in through no fault of your own, I'd rather just quit and not bother). I probably quit more games than I finish.
I don't know what the answer is to that. I can see both sides of the argument but if you want a healthy and vibrant online pool of people to play they need to have something to play for. That's the bottom line really isn't it?
I literally just quit a game within the last 5 minutes. I sat down to try another rivals session and found myself down 2-0 in the first 10 minutes, both goals from a 97 rated player. I don't have a single player anywhere near that rating. So rather than playing some rivals games for an hour ( as was my plan) I just closed NHL and I'm doing something else now.
I don't bother much anymore because I find it so hard to get a game that's even remotely fair. Maybe 2 out of 10 games will be something resembling even or I have a chance in. I want to play, but it just seems pointless.
I mean, ultimately much of my problems stem from not being very good at the game and entering the game cycle late so my team is far far behind others. I'm not angry at the guy with the 97 rated team as he's clearly done a good job building it but I sure don't want to waste my time playing against it. But, should any player playing this not have an incentive or ability to get evenly matched games? If the answer is "yes" then that goes against the "Ultimate Team" mantra. If the answer is "no" then the message being sent is don't bother unless you start early which isn't very satisfactory.
This is an interesting concept. My immediate concern is that it could be used to dodge opponents. Which is something we've tried to improve on in recent years with not seeing any info on your opponent until you're in a game with them. There were a lot of community requests for this. However, that still doesn't stop you from a lopsided match-up. Currently, the best way to avoid this is to cancel your search after 20 seconds and start over. The search will expand to include matches outside your region as well as higher rated teams. It would at least be good to get a warning this search was expanding and including teams X amount of levels above yours so you had a chance to back out and start the search again.
As you mention, player skill is also an issue, but I think if you start at the beginning of the season, this won't be as much of a concern as you should be starting in a lower division with others that are around your skill level. Coming in this late in the year is definitely going to be a challenge, but not an impossible one when you have a higher skill level. I know I've had my own losses to teams ranked lower than my own because I was being outplayed. I don't have an issue with that. Limiting who you get matched up with though is always a slippery slope as it runs the risk of being manipulated so you can sort of cherry-pick your opponents. That's something we'd have to be very conscious about and find a way to still make match-ups fair without being able to earn the same rewards as someone that isn't limiting who they match with.
This is an interesting concept. My immediate concern is that it could be used to dodge opponents. Which is something we've tried to improve on in recent years with not seeing any info on your opponent until you're in a game with them. There were a lot of community requests for this. However, that still doesn't stop you from a lopsided match-up. Currently, the best way to avoid this is to cancel your search after 20 seconds and start over. The search will expand to include matches outside your region as well as higher rated teams. It would at least be good to get a warning this search was expanding and including teams X amount of levels above yours so you had a chance to back out and start the search again.
As you mention, player skill is also an issue, but I think if you start at the beginning of the season, this won't be as much of a concern as you should be starting in a lower division with others that are around your skill level. Coming in this late in the year is definitely going to be a challenge, but not an impossible one when you have a higher skill level. I know I've had my own losses to teams ranked lower than my own because I was being outplayed. I don't have an issue with that. Limiting who you get matched up with though is always a slippery slope as it runs the risk of being manipulated so you can sort of cherry-pick your opponents. That's something we'd have to be very conscious about and find a way to still make match-ups fair without being able to earn the same rewards as someone that isn't limiting who they match with.
@EA_Aljo Oh I completely agree with your "opponent dodging" fear.
As for shorter match making waiting times I can confidently say I think that just reduces the widening of the skill rating band... *NOT* the team rating. I cancel a rivals search after 8-10 seconds and if I do get a match it can still be a god squad that I have no chance against. The skill mis-match problems I was having before, using this new search strategy (I think you originally suggested it to me, thanks), seems to be far less of an issue.
I sense that in many of my games we are of similar ability, it's just their team is *so* much better than mine that I'm going to lose. So I just quit. Hence the request that only match against teams within, say, +/- 3-5 overall rating of yours. You're not really dodging anyone with that, you are just stating you don't want to go up against similar skill opponents with monstrously better teams. I mean, what's the point? Make it a selectable/configurable option for those who do want to play those games. Fair enough.
In the HUT equivalent to FIFA Weekend League (can't remember what its' called) then you play who you play. That's the top level competitive mode in the game and that is where you showcase the best teams, I have zero issue with that. That is the right forum for it. For a casual player like me I have zero interest in that and just want fun well matched games, not constantly getting stomped on. Both types of player can be catered to. Win-win.
I suppose you could make the argument that someone with a god squad will be artificially "inflating" their skill rating as they will be doing better due to their side and the match making should still work out. I am not convinced but I can't say this isn't true for certain. I've basically done nothing but drop skill points since I started (I was around 1100-1200 and now I think i'm under 700 now) and it's only recently I sense our abilities are similar but the teams are simply too far apart to make it a real game.
Ultimately, I assume, EA will have a team of analytic folks and statisticians who go through the data to look for trends and patterns (Indeed, I'm an academic and in some of the AI material I study I do exactly this). From this you can get guidance on what to tweak or change. Any online game where you are playing against others will need this type of analysis to keep it fair.
This also implies that the original "placement" matches aren't even close to being right.
An easy solution would be in addition to the max ping selection you introduce a max team overall selection. So if I don't want to play against teams with an overall above 90 I can make that decision. This would for sure make my wait longer but it would be my own choosing. I would rather wait 5-10 minutes to match up with an opponent with a team rated similar to mine than spend 20 minutes waiting for, getting into and then quitting 3 games in a row after getting matched up against super teams.
This is an interesting concept. My immediate concern is that it could be used to dodge opponents. Which is something we've tried to improve on in recent years with not seeing any info on your opponent until you're in a game with them. There were a lot of community requests for this. However, that still doesn't stop you from a lopsided match-up. Currently, the best way to avoid this is to cancel your search after 20 seconds and start over. The search will expand to include matches outside your region as well as higher rated teams. It would at least be good to get a warning this search was expanding and including teams X amount of levels above yours so you had a chance to back out and start the search again.
As you mention, player skill is also an issue, but I think if you start at the beginning of the season, this won't be as much of a concern as you should be starting in a lower division with others that are around your skill level. Coming in this late in the year is definitely going to be a challenge, but not an impossible one when you have a higher skill level. I know I've had my own losses to teams ranked lower than my own because I was being outplayed. I don't have an issue with that. Limiting who you get matched up with though is always a slippery slope as it runs the risk of being manipulated so you can sort of cherry-pick your opponents. That's something we'd have to be very conscious about and find a way to still make match-ups fair without being able to earn the same rewards as someone that isn't limiting who they match with.
@EA_Aljo Oh I completely agree with your "opponent dodging" fear.
As for shorter match making waiting times I can confidently say I think that just reduces the widening of the skill rating band... *NOT* the team rating. I cancel a rivals search after 8-10 seconds and if I do get a match it can still be a god squad that I have no chance against. The skill mis-match problems I was having before, using this new search strategy (I think you originally suggested it to me, thanks), seems to be far less of an issue.
I sense that in many of my games we are of similar ability, it's just their team is *so* much better than mine that I'm going to lose. So I just quit. Hence the request that only match against teams within, say, +/- 3-5 overall rating of yours. You're not really dodging anyone with that, you are just stating you don't want to go up against similar skill opponents with monstrously better teams. I mean, what's the point? Make it a selectable/configurable option for those who do want to play those games. Fair enough.
In the HUT equivalent to FIFA Weekend League (can't remember what its' called) then you play who you play. That's the top level competitive mode in the game and that is where you showcase the best teams, I have zero issue with that. That is the right forum for it. For a casual player like me I have zero interest in that and just want fun well matched games, not constantly getting stomped on. Both types of player can be catered to. Win-win.
I suppose you could make the argument that someone with a god squad will be artificially "inflating" their skill rating as they will be doing better due to their side and the match making should still work out. I am not convinced but I can't say this isn't true for certain. I've basically done nothing but drop skill points since I started (I was around 1100-1200 and now I think i'm under 700 now) and it's only recently I sense our abilities are similar but the teams are simply too far apart to make it a real game.
Ultimately, I assume, EA will have a team of analytic folks and statisticians who go through the data to look for trends and patterns (Indeed, I'm an academic and in some of the AI material I study I do exactly this). From this you can get guidance on what to tweak or change. Any online game where you are playing against others will need this type of analysis to keep it fair.
This also implies that the original "placement" matches aren't even close to being right.
- DR
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
@EA_Aljo ah. I just tried that to see what would happen and you are totally right. You can mess with the ratings big time with that. Fair point. It gets really complicated trying to balance the ratings between teams then.
Maybe a game sometime? Pointers might help. I’m on PS4
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
I agree with your first point about people deflating their overall especially with the backup goalie or using less overall players on their 4th line and would require something to prevent that. Having said that if it was something that was happening a lot I would just drop the max overall a little more if I am playing against people who are doing that, eventually you hit a point where the rest of the awesome talent of other teams will be too much to bring the overall down to that level and/or you start getting matched up with people who are doing the same thing as you just wanting a more even competitive match.
As far as the second point - while you are correct with skill being a big factor, but it is only up to a certain point. If my 1st line is outclassed by several points by the other teams 4th line, you are so far behind the 8 ball just to begin with you need some incredible luck throughout the game to even have a chance if the other person is roughly the same skill level as you.
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
I agree with your first point about people deflating their overall especially with the backup goalie or using less overall players on their 4th line and would require something to prevent that. Having said that if it was something that was happening a lot I would just drop the max overall a little more if I am playing against people who are doing that, eventually you hit a point where the rest of the awesome talent of other teams will be too much to bring the overall down to that level and/or you start getting matched up with people who are doing the same thing as you just wanting a more even competitive match.
As far as the second point - while you are correct with skill being a big factor, but it is only up to a certain point. If my 1st line is outclassed by several points by the other teams 4th line, you are so far behind the 8 ball just to begin with you need some incredible luck throughout the game to even have a chance if the other person is roughly the same skill level as you.
@misterflugietime Totally agree. When their 4th line is better than your first is is very difficult to get anywhere. I agree there is a skill gap in the game (a really good player with an ordinary team will probably give a bad player with a god squad a good seeing too - and that is as it should be but this sort of skill gap should not be occurring in Rivals, that's for the weekend competition) but I'm nowhere near that level so it's a deal breaker for me. Game after game I've found this. It's not like I'm making this up.
That being said I had 4 games last night on the trot that were fairly balanced (2 wins, 2 losses [one of them a heartbreaker in OT but I did something really stupid so fair enough]) and their teams were not dissimilar to mine. A bit better, a bit worse but not overpowered in any way. That's more like it. Happy to play that. It gets tiring just quitting games that are totally mismatched squad wise. I mean, it shouldn't even match us but as @EA_Aljo pointed out it's much more complicated than that - my suggested solution is open to abuse which is a fair point and I can't see any easy way to fix that. But, no, I don't want to play your 96 rated squad. Which does a disservice to him as he should be able to find people to play against too.
I used to see those games through but constantly getting 150 rivals points for getting smashed is literally not worth your time. I'd rather get 0 and just move on.
@EA_Aljo ah. I just tried that to see what would happen and you are totally right. You can mess with the ratings big time with that. Fair point. It gets really complicated trying to balance the ratings between teams then.
Maybe a game sometime? Pointers might help. I’m on PS4
- DR
It's for sure a cool idea. While I think playing people better than you helps you raise your own skill, at some point it can become more frustrating than fun so I can understand the desire for a system that creates a more fair matchup. We'll have to see what the future holds.
Appreciate the offer, but I'm on Xbox. You're welcome to ask questions here of course. I'm sure you'd get a number of pointers from the community and I'll add my own as well.
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
I agree with your first point about people deflating their overall especially with the backup goalie or using less overall players on their 4th line and would require something to prevent that. Having said that if it was something that was happening a lot I would just drop the max overall a little more if I am playing against people who are doing that, eventually you hit a point where the rest of the awesome talent of other teams will be too much to bring the overall down to that level and/or you start getting matched up with people who are doing the same thing as you just wanting a more even competitive match.
As far as the second point - while you are correct with skill being a big factor, but it is only up to a certain point. If my 1st line is outclassed by several points by the other teams 4th line, you are so far behind the 8 ball just to begin with you need some incredible luck throughout the game to even have a chance if the other person is roughly the same skill level as you.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to micromanage my overall that much. I don't want to have to swap out higher overall players for lower ones just to have a better chance at facing someone I have a better chance against. The majority of my games have felt relatively evenly matched, but I also started at release. Coming into HUT after several months is going to put you at a pretty big disadvantage as the pool of players with similar overalls is going to be really small. Even if we had a better matchmaking system, I think you'd still either be playing the same people many times or you'd have a long wait to match with someone.
@EA_Aljo ah. I just tried that to see what would happen and you are totally right. You can mess with the ratings big time with that. Fair point. It gets really complicated trying to balance the ratings between teams then.
Maybe a game sometime? Pointers might help. I’m on PS4
- DR
It's for sure a cool idea. While I think playing people better than you helps you raise your own skill, at some point it can become more frustrating than fun so I can understand the desire for a system that creates a more fair matchup. We'll have to see what the future holds.
Appreciate the offer, but I'm on Xbox. You're welcome to ask questions here of course. I'm sure you'd get a number of pointers from the community and I'll add my own as well.
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
I agree with your first point about people deflating their overall especially with the backup goalie or using less overall players on their 4th line and would require something to prevent that. Having said that if it was something that was happening a lot I would just drop the max overall a little more if I am playing against people who are doing that, eventually you hit a point where the rest of the awesome talent of other teams will be too much to bring the overall down to that level and/or you start getting matched up with people who are doing the same thing as you just wanting a more even competitive match.
As far as the second point - while you are correct with skill being a big factor, but it is only up to a certain point. If my 1st line is outclassed by several points by the other teams 4th line, you are so far behind the 8 ball just to begin with you need some incredible luck throughout the game to even have a chance if the other person is roughly the same skill level as you.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to micromanage my overall that much. I don't want to have to swap out higher overall players for lower ones just to have a better chance at facing someone I have a better chance against. The majority of my games have felt relatively evenly matched, but I also started at release. Coming into HUT after several months is going to put you at a pretty big disadvantage as the pool of players with similar overalls is going to be really small. Even if we had a better matchmaking system, I think you'd still either be playing the same people many times or you'd have a long wait to match with someone.
@EA_Aljo All fair points. I appreciate there is no easy answer to this.
A little background..
I started playing/ watching hockey about 5 years ago. Before that I was all about NFL and college football. This year I finally gave in and tried HUT mostly because my friends didn't like 21 much and then in EASHL they divided the community for half the year with the championships thing.
Before HUT I played MUT, not a real big fan of Madden but I thought MUT was amazing! I could get all my favorite players and mix and match them. I could play against those same players and replay Superbowls and crazy challenges like a team of all Terrell Owens.
When I opened HUT I hoped for a lot of the same. How amazing would it be to learn about the NHL history through playing Stanley cups from 50 years ago? I could learn about the legends or face a whole team of Gretzky or bobby Orr. I could build a full team of red wings players with a mix of current guys, prospects, and legends. I could play a salary cap game with friends because we will likely have vastly different teams as far as talent goes. Unfortunately I was kinda disappointed..
Challenges are a GRIND. They're no fun at all, I face a team and I usually forget what the challenges are half the time. Win faceoffs, make passes, score goals, don't get many scored on, they just all blend together.
I don't learn much of anything about the old players except when I open their card and it tells me their stats (which is a cool feature) but I'd love to get more than that.
Building a team can be fun but the synergies are annoying. I feel it pushes me to get guys that fit my strategy over guys I want. Maybe I want a full team of guys from my favorite team or just a bunch of guys I like the most? Personally I think it should be like Madden and you should get a boost for all guys on one team and that's a synergy itself? So you could choose to go with a team or a player synergy? A team synergy you could choose the desired effect?
A working salary cap would make HUT SO much better. Look, Madden had a salary cap (and I don't like Madden) I didn't want to pay for Mut so I made a salary cap team so I could face my friends.. after having a blast with that I dropped some money to make a REALLY good team AND have my salary cap team. I think many may just continue to play for free but many may get into HUT because they're playing salary cap and getting rewards to make an even better team. Salary cap could have it's own challenges, it's own online vs, etc. I get it would split the community some but it would be much better in terms of competitive play. These could be the rules for world championships in the game. DON'T USE REAL PLAYER SALARY. Do what Madden does and give guys points on the side of their card that reflects their stats.
A little background..
I started playing/ watching hockey about 5 years ago. Before that I was all about NFL and college football. This year I finally gave in and tried HUT mostly because my friends didn't like 21 much and then in EASHL they divided the community for half the year with the championships thing.
Before HUT I played MUT, not a real big fan of Madden but I thought MUT was amazing! I could get all my favorite players and mix and match them. I could play against those same players and replay Superbowls and crazy challenges like a team of all Terrell Owens.
When I opened HUT I hoped for a lot of the same. How amazing would it be to learn about the NHL history through playing Stanley cups from 50 years ago? I could learn about the legends or face a whole team of Gretzky or bobby Orr. I could build a full team of red wings players with a mix of current guys, prospects, and legends. I could play a salary cap game with friends because we will likely have vastly different teams as far as talent goes. Unfortunately I was kinda disappointed..
Challenges are a GRIND. They're no fun at all, I face a team and I usually forget what the challenges are half the time. Win faceoffs, make passes, score goals, don't get many scored on, they just all blend together.
I don't learn much of anything about the old players except when I open their card and it tells me their stats (which is a cool feature) but I'd love to get more than that.
Building a team can be fun but the synergies are annoying. I feel it pushes me to get guys that fit my strategy over guys I want. Maybe I want a full team of guys from my favorite team or just a bunch of guys I like the most? Personally I think it should be like Madden and you should get a boost for all guys on one team and that's a synergy itself? So you could choose to go with a team or a player synergy? A team synergy you could choose the desired effect?
A working salary cap would make HUT SO much better. Look, Madden had a salary cap (and I don't like Madden) I didn't want to pay for Mut so I made a salary cap team so I could face my friends.. after having a blast with that I dropped some money to make a REALLY good team AND have my salary cap team. I think many may just continue to play for free but many may get into HUT because they're playing salary cap and getting rewards to make an even better team. Salary cap could have it's own challenges, it's own online vs, etc. I get it would split the community some but it would be much better in terms of competitive play. These could be the rules for world championships in the game. DON'T USE REAL PLAYER SALARY. Do what Madden does and give guys points on the side of their card that reflects their stats.
Salary cap would def separate the men from the boys. Because honesty. I don't care how bad you are at the game. If you have ALL 98 and 99 players on your team, it's still going to be hard to beat that opponent because of the Ai. the computer does a lot of things for you that maybe some people don't realize. Like pass intercepts. Skating, defensive positioning. Etc. So yes. Highly skilled players can beat highly rated teams, but its frustratingly difficult. What are the chances of having HUT, and maybe HUT ELITE. Hut elite would have no CAP. HUT would have a cap. So if you wanna play teams with over exaggerated players you have that option. Or if you want to play a NORMAL team. You have that option as well. Their are plenty of people like me who won't gave time to play every day for hours grinding out challenges and all these objectives and trading in sets and all that stuff. So I think it would be cool if casual players could have at least a chance to win a few games without having to spend 10 hours a day playing to get those 98 overall players to compete.
Perfect example.
Played a game of Rivals.
Shots. 37-19 me
Score. 11-6.
Opponents team
97,96,96,99,99,97,97,96,96,98,96,99,99,98,99,96,96,96,99 goalie.
Time on attack 9:23 for me. 5:41 opponent. Passing 85% me. 63.9% opponent
PP. 2-4 me
2-5 opponent.
Clearly I won right ???
Hahahahahaha. Of course not.
Please get rid of these ridiculous players. Or let me play a game of HUT that's actually matched up properly.
Perfect example.
Played a game of Rivals.
Shots. 37-19 me
Score. 11-6.
Opponents team
97,96,96,99,99,97,97,96,96,98,96,99,99,98,99,96,96,96,99 goalie.
Time on attack 9:23 for me. 5:41 opponent. Passing 85% me. 63.9% opponent
PP. 2-4 me
2-5 opponent.
Clearly I won right ???
Hahahahahaha. Of course not.
Please get rid of these ridiculous players. Or let me play a game of HUT that's actually matched up properly.
This is EVERY OTHER GAME I PLAY. It's out of control.
Despite the changes to HUT for NHL 22, from what I understand, the problem of people who don't have tons of hours to devote to grinding every day, aren't willing to open up their wallet or aren't the best of the best skill wise are still going to be behind the 8-ball pretty much from beginning to end. I mean it makes sense from a business decision considering if everybody was able to compete without opening their wallet to buy packs the company would lose money but from a consumer standpoint the people who don't want to or can't devote so much time to grinding it really stinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6eCwE8oCIE
Replies
@smyth9779 Many interesting points and observations raised in this thread overall.
I like the salary idea but it goes against the idea/grind of building the best team you can. That introduces a constraint where you will "max out" much earlier on. From an EA perspective that means less revenue and incentive for people to grind or buy packs (unless a salary cap was something you could raise over time or via objectives but that defeats your reasoning as the salary cap is supposed to level the playing field).
There are many problems with the team strengths though. My situation is I entered the game cycle late and my team isn't very good. I would like to see an option for any team to disable being matched against a side that is +X better than yours. So if I have an 84 team I'm not going to be matched against someone with a 96 rated team. Even if your "skill rating" is similar there is only going to be one outcome. I am finding it incredibly difficult to get playable games in Rivals as the team difference is so great and I have zero chance game after game after game. I play much less than I used to. It's already hard to find matches in Rivals as it is and you've basically taken me out of the player pool as... what's the point? Sell it to me.
But... having said that it goes against the mantra of "Ultimate Team" which I get. If you've built that 97 rated squad you are going to want to play it. With my 84 squad I don't want to play you and as soon as I suss that's what I'm up against I'll just quit the game at that point as I have nothing to play for (Rivals will penalise you with a small amount of rivals point as you get crushed in a game you have little chance in through no fault of your own, I'd rather just quit and not bother). I probably quit more games than I finish.
I don't know what the answer is to that. I can see both sides of the argument but if you want a healthy and vibrant online pool of people to play they need to have something to play for. That's the bottom line really isn't it?
I literally just quit a game within the last 5 minutes. I sat down to try another rivals session and found myself down 2-0 in the first 10 minutes, both goals from a 97 rated player. I don't have a single player anywhere near that rating. So rather than playing some rivals games for an hour ( as was my plan) I just closed NHL and I'm doing something else now.
I don't bother much anymore because I find it so hard to get a game that's even remotely fair. Maybe 2 out of 10 games will be something resembling even or I have a chance in. I want to play, but it just seems pointless.
I mean, ultimately much of my problems stem from not being very good at the game and entering the game cycle late so my team is far far behind others. I'm not angry at the guy with the 97 rated team as he's clearly done a good job building it but I sure don't want to waste my time playing against it. But, should any player playing this not have an incentive or ability to get evenly matched games? If the answer is "yes" then that goes against the "Ultimate Team" mantra. If the answer is "no" then the message being sent is don't bother unless you start early which isn't very satisfactory.
I'm open to suggestions.
- DR
This is an interesting concept. My immediate concern is that it could be used to dodge opponents. Which is something we've tried to improve on in recent years with not seeing any info on your opponent until you're in a game with them. There were a lot of community requests for this. However, that still doesn't stop you from a lopsided match-up. Currently, the best way to avoid this is to cancel your search after 20 seconds and start over. The search will expand to include matches outside your region as well as higher rated teams. It would at least be good to get a warning this search was expanding and including teams X amount of levels above yours so you had a chance to back out and start the search again.
As you mention, player skill is also an issue, but I think if you start at the beginning of the season, this won't be as much of a concern as you should be starting in a lower division with others that are around your skill level. Coming in this late in the year is definitely going to be a challenge, but not an impossible one when you have a higher skill level. I know I've had my own losses to teams ranked lower than my own because I was being outplayed. I don't have an issue with that. Limiting who you get matched up with though is always a slippery slope as it runs the risk of being manipulated so you can sort of cherry-pick your opponents. That's something we'd have to be very conscious about and find a way to still make match-ups fair without being able to earn the same rewards as someone that isn't limiting who they match with.
@EA_Aljo Oh I completely agree with your "opponent dodging" fear.
As for shorter match making waiting times I can confidently say I think that just reduces the widening of the skill rating band... *NOT* the team rating. I cancel a rivals search after 8-10 seconds and if I do get a match it can still be a god squad that I have no chance against. The skill mis-match problems I was having before, using this new search strategy (I think you originally suggested it to me, thanks), seems to be far less of an issue.
I sense that in many of my games we are of similar ability, it's just their team is *so* much better than mine that I'm going to lose. So I just quit. Hence the request that only match against teams within, say, +/- 3-5 overall rating of yours. You're not really dodging anyone with that, you are just stating you don't want to go up against similar skill opponents with monstrously better teams. I mean, what's the point? Make it a selectable/configurable option for those who do want to play those games. Fair enough.
In the HUT equivalent to FIFA Weekend League (can't remember what its' called) then you play who you play. That's the top level competitive mode in the game and that is where you showcase the best teams, I have zero issue with that. That is the right forum for it. For a casual player like me I have zero interest in that and just want fun well matched games, not constantly getting stomped on. Both types of player can be catered to. Win-win.
I suppose you could make the argument that someone with a god squad will be artificially "inflating" their skill rating as they will be doing better due to their side and the match making should still work out. I am not convinced but I can't say this isn't true for certain. I've basically done nothing but drop skill points since I started (I was around 1100-1200 and now I think i'm under 700 now) and it's only recently I sense our abilities are similar but the teams are simply too far apart to make it a real game.
Ultimately, I assume, EA will have a team of analytic folks and statisticians who go through the data to look for trends and patterns (Indeed, I'm an academic and in some of the AI material I study I do exactly this). From this you can get guidance on what to tweak or change. Any online game where you are playing against others will need this type of analysis to keep it fair.
This also implies that the original "placement" matches aren't even close to being right.
- DR
I worry more about people artificially deflating their overall by using a bronze backup goalie. We would just have to somehow find a way to not let people manipulate their overall. In the end though, it truly comes down to your own individual skill. Even going up against someone with the same skill, but a higher-rated team, that doesn't guarantee they will win. We all need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents and adjust our strategy. If you go up against everyone doing exactly the same thing, your chances of success aren't so good.
Maybe a game sometime? Pointers might help. I’m on PS4
- DR
I agree with your first point about people deflating their overall especially with the backup goalie or using less overall players on their 4th line and would require something to prevent that. Having said that if it was something that was happening a lot I would just drop the max overall a little more if I am playing against people who are doing that, eventually you hit a point where the rest of the awesome talent of other teams will be too much to bring the overall down to that level and/or you start getting matched up with people who are doing the same thing as you just wanting a more even competitive match.
As far as the second point - while you are correct with skill being a big factor, but it is only up to a certain point. If my 1st line is outclassed by several points by the other teams 4th line, you are so far behind the 8 ball just to begin with you need some incredible luck throughout the game to even have a chance if the other person is roughly the same skill level as you.
@misterflugietime Totally agree. When their 4th line is better than your first is is very difficult to get anywhere. I agree there is a skill gap in the game (a really good player with an ordinary team will probably give a bad player with a god squad a good seeing too - and that is as it should be but this sort of skill gap should not be occurring in Rivals, that's for the weekend competition) but I'm nowhere near that level so it's a deal breaker for me. Game after game I've found this. It's not like I'm making this up.
That being said I had 4 games last night on the trot that were fairly balanced (2 wins, 2 losses [one of them a heartbreaker in OT but I did something really stupid so fair enough]) and their teams were not dissimilar to mine. A bit better, a bit worse but not overpowered in any way. That's more like it. Happy to play that. It gets tiring just quitting games that are totally mismatched squad wise. I mean, it shouldn't even match us but as @EA_Aljo pointed out it's much more complicated than that - my suggested solution is open to abuse which is a fair point and I can't see any easy way to fix that. But, no, I don't want to play your 96 rated squad. Which does a disservice to him as he should be able to find people to play against too.
I used to see those games through but constantly getting 150 rivals points for getting smashed is literally not worth your time. I'd rather get 0 and just move on.
- DR
It's for sure a cool idea. While I think playing people better than you helps you raise your own skill, at some point it can become more frustrating than fun so I can understand the desire for a system that creates a more fair matchup. We'll have to see what the future holds.
Appreciate the offer, but I'm on Xbox. You're welcome to ask questions here of course. I'm sure you'd get a number of pointers from the community and I'll add my own as well.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to micromanage my overall that much. I don't want to have to swap out higher overall players for lower ones just to have a better chance at facing someone I have a better chance against. The majority of my games have felt relatively evenly matched, but I also started at release. Coming into HUT after several months is going to put you at a pretty big disadvantage as the pool of players with similar overalls is going to be really small. Even if we had a better matchmaking system, I think you'd still either be playing the same people many times or you'd have a long wait to match with someone.
@EA_Aljo All fair points. I appreciate there is no easy answer to this.
I started playing/ watching hockey about 5 years ago. Before that I was all about NFL and college football. This year I finally gave in and tried HUT mostly because my friends didn't like 21 much and then in EASHL they divided the community for half the year with the championships thing.
Before HUT I played MUT, not a real big fan of Madden but I thought MUT was amazing! I could get all my favorite players and mix and match them. I could play against those same players and replay Superbowls and crazy challenges like a team of all Terrell Owens.
When I opened HUT I hoped for a lot of the same. How amazing would it be to learn about the NHL history through playing Stanley cups from 50 years ago? I could learn about the legends or face a whole team of Gretzky or bobby Orr. I could build a full team of red wings players with a mix of current guys, prospects, and legends. I could play a salary cap game with friends because we will likely have vastly different teams as far as talent goes. Unfortunately I was kinda disappointed..
Challenges are a GRIND. They're no fun at all, I face a team and I usually forget what the challenges are half the time. Win faceoffs, make passes, score goals, don't get many scored on, they just all blend together.
I don't learn much of anything about the old players except when I open their card and it tells me their stats (which is a cool feature) but I'd love to get more than that.
Building a team can be fun but the synergies are annoying. I feel it pushes me to get guys that fit my strategy over guys I want. Maybe I want a full team of guys from my favorite team or just a bunch of guys I like the most? Personally I think it should be like Madden and you should get a boost for all guys on one team and that's a synergy itself? So you could choose to go with a team or a player synergy? A team synergy you could choose the desired effect?
A working salary cap would make HUT SO much better. Look, Madden had a salary cap (and I don't like Madden) I didn't want to pay for Mut so I made a salary cap team so I could face my friends.. after having a blast with that I dropped some money to make a REALLY good team AND have my salary cap team. I think many may just continue to play for free but many may get into HUT because they're playing salary cap and getting rewards to make an even better team. Salary cap could have it's own challenges, it's own online vs, etc. I get it would split the community some but it would be much better in terms of competitive play. These could be the rules for world championships in the game. DON'T USE REAL PLAYER SALARY. Do what Madden does and give guys points on the side of their card that reflects their stats.
Salary cap would def separate the men from the boys. Because honesty. I don't care how bad you are at the game. If you have ALL 98 and 99 players on your team, it's still going to be hard to beat that opponent because of the Ai. the computer does a lot of things for you that maybe some people don't realize. Like pass intercepts. Skating, defensive positioning. Etc. So yes. Highly skilled players can beat highly rated teams, but its frustratingly difficult. What are the chances of having HUT, and maybe HUT ELITE. Hut elite would have no CAP. HUT would have a cap. So if you wanna play teams with over exaggerated players you have that option. Or if you want to play a NORMAL team. You have that option as well. Their are plenty of people like me who won't gave time to play every day for hours grinding out challenges and all these objectives and trading in sets and all that stuff. So I think it would be cool if casual players could have at least a chance to win a few games without having to spend 10 hours a day playing to get those 98 overall players to compete.
Played a game of Rivals.
Shots. 37-19 me
Score. 11-6.
Opponents team
97,96,96,99,99,97,97,96,96,98,96,99,99,98,99,96,96,96,99 goalie.
Time on attack 9:23 for me. 5:41 opponent. Passing 85% me. 63.9% opponent
PP. 2-4 me
2-5 opponent.
Clearly I won right ???
Hahahahahaha. Of course not.
Please get rid of these ridiculous players. Or let me play a game of HUT that's actually matched up properly.
This is EVERY OTHER GAME I PLAY. It's out of control.