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Constructive approach

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  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    "Cross crease is all you see. It is boring." - Adam. Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals
    "Every game we play is the same. I want dynamism. " - Dan. Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease
    "This game is reliant on who can exploit it better. 1 in 10 games is hockey, the rest is loop, loop, force a pass. Who cares if we win? That is not the point. Total monotony." - Mike. Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division

    this game is fun cause we can score many ways. from behind the net like last year as example.

    The views presented here are shared by no small number of people who have been playing this game for a considerable length of time. Not a bunch of scrubs who don't know how to play the game.

    The exact issue is that while there are more new fun ways to score... there are few to none new ways to counter/defend against that.

    I'm sure these new mechanics are great fun for forwards but for those of us who play D (and most assuredly goalie) and are stuck with largely broken and unreliable tools for playing defense, it is making things much LESS enjoyable. I am all for improvements for some but not at the expense of others.

    I play defense exclusively and I have had only a small number of gripes with the functionality there.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)
    There is a 27 page thread that indicates you may be in the minority on this. I will assume you also play club (?) where some of this is probably greatly mitigated.

    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game.

    IceLion68 wrote: »

    Out of curiosity, what *are* your gripes?

    - Users are able to execute no-look, behind the back passes with 100% accuracy.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can hold the puck to their backhand/forehand and maintain momentum and speed for too many frames while also having top tier agility and balance.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. defensive coverage in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. offensive awareness in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Puck protect at low speeds is still slightly too OP.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Sometimes a well-timed poke check in the direction of the intended receiver on a cross-crease attempt results in the poke targeting (and then missing) the incoming puck rather than disrupting the shot and/or substantially decreasing the accuracy of a shot

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - In the same scenario (a cross-crease attempt) less skilled players can simply lay down in the passing lane, slide directly in to their goalie, but their goalie still is able to make the save.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Players are still able to keep control of the puck while intentionally skating directly in to the boards in order to protect their possession. Skating directly in to the boards while holding the puck should result in the puck being knocked loose.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can spam R3 poke - I know because I currently do it. The accuracy of each subsequent poke check should be reduced and eventually head in to penalty territory.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Interference calls for shoving players in the slot or in front of the goalie. There seems to be an area of the ice where no calls are made, but it's inconsistent at times.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - LT still chaps me. Players still abuse it, particularly at low speeds. It needs to be nerfed.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Player changing needs to be fine tuned a little more. It's better this year, but I'm still finding player switching inconsistent. Icon-based switching would be ideal. RT+R3 works well for taking control of a player in front of the net, but RT+RS isn't as consistent as I'd like. I'm often flicking my stick to the right (to take control of RW) but it switches me to center. I think it needs to be tuned a little better.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - You can't use the shoot button in the defensive zone anymore to clear the puck because it targets your own net

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Backskating speed needs to be bumped up like 1 or 2 notches. Something just barely noticeable but effective to help quell the forwards' speed through the neutral zone.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    All in all, The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :). No look backhand passes forced through traffic are not an issue. The countless times somebody uses an actual defensive mechanic properly and still gets beat is not an issue. Holding the stick to the backhand creating a magic bubble is not an issue. None of that is a problem. The answer of course, in this thread designed to be a constructive conversation that has been hijacked by two people who intentionally fuel combative conversations and can seemingly say what they want because they support EA, is "The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)". Wow, so profound! So enlightening. Thank you so much for providing constructive thought! Deny pucks going through objects. Blame the player! The ridiculous amount of content I spent hours of my time, that I do not have a lot of and still volunteered to TRY to help this dump of a forum, compiling from many different sources means absolutely nothing. These gripes are all an illusion. The game is fine. People are, apparently, not allowed to criticize a product they spent money on. I truly hope you never leave anyone a bad review, @KidShowtime1867 . If you do, that would make you a hypocrite. Went to a restaurant and the food was poor? No big deal, you should have played better defense. Bought a car that did not operate safely? No big deal, play better defense. Bought a TV that burned out? Should have played better defense. All those examples are your fault and not the provider of these services or creators of these products. Give. Me. A. Break.

    First of all, @Stephlefan6AX , you have no idea how my friends play. Sorry, I meant played because they quit playing this game due to it's monotony. Adam, Dan, and Mike all do just fine. We play, sorry "played", real hockey and still beat the sweaty, try-hard losers who try to exploit the game about 70% of the time. Division 1 baby. You don't get there being poor. Feel free to bring your boys and challenge us sometime. Oh wait, my friends dont play anymore because the game is so "balanced". But thank you for assuming so much about people you do not know. This thread was started to try and sway the balance of this forum I have read for many years and have seen it devolve into the typical assumptions and condescension that is allowed if you are an EA sympathizer.

    Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals - assumption, presuming Adam sucks. Cool.
    Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease - assumption, presuming to know how other people play. Cool.
    Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division - assumption, presuming Mike sucks. Cool.
    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game. - assumption, presuming that people have gripes because they lost. Cool.

    People like myself, like my friends, like all of those "complainers" in the "community" you like to dump on so much feel neglected, forgotten, and are upset a game they are passionate about has turned into the Fortnite of sports gaming. You want to talk about how to keep this forum community from developing less toxicity? Sure. Let's do that.

    1. When someone does present a constructive thread, community managers MAY comment on it. No developers. God forbid they come on because the few trolls here scared them away. At least dignify those who are TRYING. Concepts are not discussed. Questions are not asked. Questions are not answered.
    2. You then have a few people who are allowed to do nothing but be combative simply because they support EA like puritanical robots. A double standard exists here. I joined this place a few months ago to TRY to bring something to the table and my opinions are allowed to be dumped on DEVOID of anything of substance or constructive thought. Just "you are wrong, I am right, the game is fine, you suck". Awesome!
    3. You then have people who contribute nothing other than pure negativity and "the game is trash". As well as conspiracy theories and concepts that cannot even be proven.

    But no, we are supposed to all play nice and hug each other? Get out of here. I popped on to see if maybe my decision to leave was premature or off base. Apparently I was correct. Thanks for ruining a good idea. Thank you for not supporting someone trying to do what this place is SUPPOSED to be doing. Thank you for sabotaging.

    The golden age of these forums was about 12 years ago. There’s a small handful of people left that try to do what we can, but all the really great video providers left because the videos they shared from NHL 15 about AI issues still haven’t been even remotely fixed in NHL 21. I still like offering help, advice, feedback, but I just keep an insanely low expectation of being heard to stay sane.

    @untouchable_BF1 , I think we would all be living a fiction to think everything we say here can or would be implemented. With that said I think there is a lot of credence to the idea that some of the same crap has existed in this game for an entire console generation and it hasnt been addressed. I can see why there would be an exodus. Almost like core ideas are neglected

    I 100% agree, it’s just simple things like defenders not skating to corner or defenders in a trap not leaving their position of the trap for literally zero productive reason which in turn destroys the trap. I said it in another post I think, but problems like this far outweigh a one-timer animation change or skating style when it comes to replicating hockey. We’re actively being given the more condiments when the burger is still still raw lol.

    I like your commentary, there’s a few of us here who are like-minded, I’d say don’t give up on these forums. They’re small, but the few who post a lot really loyal to the game and tend to understand hockey much more than Reddit or Twitter where there’s just a plethora of people that bash the game without reason or knowledge of the sport.

    At the end of the day, this is just another medium to shout into the void, but I’d like to think the quality of the shouted words is a half-step above here compared to other places lol.

    That is my basic intention. I want the game to have more refined hockey plays. Online is a joke, in my opinion. Offline I have it running okay. The problems with AI movements on and off the puck are cumbersome, the positioning is rough, the speed is odd. All in all I can enjoy offline.

    I started this hoping to develop a central place for us to list our gripes. I DID NOT start this to debate those gripes and be jerks about it.

    Love it man. I feel ya. I too have offline at a playable state, but I won’t touch online unless someone paid me too. I hope Ben’s vision of shareable/playable online slider sets in custom games comes to fruition next-gen. Would love to get a small group of friends who want to play a more realistic version of hockey together and play little leagues, even if we simply use excel, just to be able to play against a human with our own interpretation of “sim” and “balanced” video game hockey.

    Even without that, I have fun creating a custom league and running it through excel. It’s the only way I can enjoy the game right now but it has kept me coming back for a game or two a day which is better than previous games this gen.

    Would you mind posting and comparing our sliders? I think what I have is a decent idea for fun gameplay but I could use some help and maybe help someone else in return

    I will post them as soon as I get to my Xbox. Might not be for another day, but I will tag you when I do post. I’ve found that this game requires you to play at a faster pace than I’d like because it helps the AI recover after becoming lost easier, so my sliders are definitely a good mix of fun/sim elements. Definitely the fastest set I’ve played on in years and it’s still at 0 game speed so it’s nothing insane mind you.

    I also play a very unique way lol. I play 1/2 of every game for both teams so I don’t actually worry too much about the CPU’s offense just a disclaimer. My set is based around making CPU defense more alive and engaging + forcing me to make more real hockey plays. A lot of my set revolves around the strategy page I’d like to think which requires user control of both teams at some point.

    So hopefully you can take bits of mine and apply it your game cause the way I play is truly unique, but it’s also the only way I can enjoy this game.

    Good stuff. I will get mine in order today and list them tomorrow. I can provide some details as to the method of my madness.

    I like the idea to make CPU defense better. Maybe that would give me more variety.

    Thanks dude

    I would love to see a topic from you and Bf1 about your sliders.

    Bf1 had the best I ever tryed in 20. It actually felt like real hockey from time to time.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    I am kinda done with this "love fest" between the two of you. Any legitimacy to your points is drowned in the "mutual self-congratulating" going on here.

    Lmaoo we just don’t take things personally and enjoy each other’s banter ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Bring something to the table. Dignify the initial list. Bring your own. Discuss game concepts that need improved. Do not hijack my thread as you are attempting.

    Excuse me? I bring a lot to the table. I provide COUNTLESS feedback including entire threads devoted to my issues with the game which includes video evidence.

    Far more than simply stating “x is broken” and then personally attacking people who don’t agree with me....

    I’ve worked very hard at being less abrasive around here.

    I’ve provided hundreds of gifs and feedback surrounding issues with the game.

    All of that only to be attacked by you because you simply don’t agree with me.

    It’s so disheartening and now I remember why I stayed away for a couple of weeks.

    Hopefully the moderation team can handle you - it’s so tiring when a simple differing of opinions turns in to constant personal attacks form you.

    hey kid i'm glad you are back on the forum. i knew other poeple like this game that were not active on the forum. please bring your friends here we need more support. do you have any friends named Adam,Mike or Dan by any chance? you don't know me but i have to say this game is perfect and well balanced . i do understand the madness of many poeple on this forum about the game but i personally have a lot of fun to play it especially on SQ

    No friends here.

    I don’t think the game is perfect, but it’s not the “broken mess” some users think it is.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    I am kinda done with this "love fest" between the two of you. Any legitimacy to your points is drowned in the "mutual self-congratulating" going on here.

    I dont know what anything between me and kid would have to do with you. Just look another direaction and you will be fine.

    I get that 'kid' can be abit ruff sometimes, but that dosent change the fact that he says pretty good stuff about the game.

    As do you, lion, but you seem to do it pretty personal sometimes and declare people stupid for not sayin same things as you.
    I have never ever called anyone stupid here.

    I was referring to the post you did to Stephlefan6AX, 5th january, the one you have edited, you said he's post was the dumbest you ever read, and so on...

    And okey, you can play it ruff, but don't get surprise if people are tough back to you.

    But I honestly don't see no point of calling each other out. Looks kinda desperate.

    First thank's sega thats why i ignored, i don»'t really have time to waste on scaling things like that. i prefer positive things on the games like you did always. This week i'm gonna probably make top 100 in squad battle for the first time this year,hehe not bad for someone that is in a bunch of scrubs that don't know how to play this game :smiley:

    Hehe You always seem to go your own way, no mather what other will say. I like that about a person.

    And being positive about this game isn't always easy.

    Great to hear about your success, not the least bit surprised! 😊👍

    remember about Borovsky fired? i do now have Vasilevskiy TOTY untradable so i can't fired him. i also added Hedman TOTY to my squad
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    I am kinda done with this "love fest" between the two of you. Any legitimacy to your points is drowned in the "mutual self-congratulating" going on here.

    Lmaoo we just don’t take things personally and enjoy each other’s banter ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Bring something to the table. Dignify the initial list. Bring your own. Discuss game concepts that need improved. Do not hijack my thread as you are attempting.

    Excuse me? I bring a lot to the table. I provide COUNTLESS feedback including entire threads devoted to my issues with the game which includes video evidence.

    Far more than simply stating “x is broken” and then personally attacking people who don’t agree with me....

    I’ve worked very hard at being less abrasive around here.

    I’ve provided hundreds of gifs and feedback surrounding issues with the game.

    All of that only to be attacked by you because you simply don’t agree with me.

    It’s so disheartening and now I remember why I stayed away for a couple of weeks.

    Hopefully the moderation team can handle you - it’s so tiring when a simple differing of opinions turns in to constant personal attacks form you.

    hey kid i'm glad you are back on the forum. i knew other poeple like this game that were not active on the forum. please bring your friends here we need more support. do you have any friends named Adam,Mike or Dan by any chance? you don't know me but i have to say this game is perfect and well balanced . i do understand the madness of many poeple on this forum about the game but i personally have a lot of fun to play it especially on SQ

    No friends here.

    I don’t think the game is perfect, but it’s not the “broken mess” some users think it is.

    That is your opinion. Others have opinions as well. Deal with it. :)
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    "Cross crease is all you see. It is boring." - Adam. Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals
    "Every game we play is the same. I want dynamism. " - Dan. Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease
    "This game is reliant on who can exploit it better. 1 in 10 games is hockey, the rest is loop, loop, force a pass. Who cares if we win? That is not the point. Total monotony." - Mike. Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division

    this game is fun cause we can score many ways. from behind the net like last year as example.

    The views presented here are shared by no small number of people who have been playing this game for a considerable length of time. Not a bunch of scrubs who don't know how to play the game.

    The exact issue is that while there are more new fun ways to score... there are few to none new ways to counter/defend against that.

    I'm sure these new mechanics are great fun for forwards but for those of us who play D (and most assuredly goalie) and are stuck with largely broken and unreliable tools for playing defense, it is making things much LESS enjoyable. I am all for improvements for some but not at the expense of others.

    I play defense exclusively and I have had only a small number of gripes with the functionality there.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)
    There is a 27 page thread that indicates you may be in the minority on this. I will assume you also play club (?) where some of this is probably greatly mitigated.

    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game.

    IceLion68 wrote: »

    Out of curiosity, what *are* your gripes?

    - Users are able to execute no-look, behind the back passes with 100% accuracy.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can hold the puck to their backhand/forehand and maintain momentum and speed for too many frames while also having top tier agility and balance.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. defensive coverage in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. offensive awareness in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Puck protect at low speeds is still slightly too OP.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Sometimes a well-timed poke check in the direction of the intended receiver on a cross-crease attempt results in the poke targeting (and then missing) the incoming puck rather than disrupting the shot and/or substantially decreasing the accuracy of a shot

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - In the same scenario (a cross-crease attempt) less skilled players can simply lay down in the passing lane, slide directly in to their goalie, but their goalie still is able to make the save.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Players are still able to keep control of the puck while intentionally skating directly in to the boards in order to protect their possession. Skating directly in to the boards while holding the puck should result in the puck being knocked loose.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can spam R3 poke - I know because I currently do it. The accuracy of each subsequent poke check should be reduced and eventually head in to penalty territory.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Interference calls for shoving players in the slot or in front of the goalie. There seems to be an area of the ice where no calls are made, but it's inconsistent at times.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - LT still chaps me. Players still abuse it, particularly at low speeds. It needs to be nerfed.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Player changing needs to be fine tuned a little more. It's better this year, but I'm still finding player switching inconsistent. Icon-based switching would be ideal. RT+R3 works well for taking control of a player in front of the net, but RT+RS isn't as consistent as I'd like. I'm often flicking my stick to the right (to take control of RW) but it switches me to center. I think it needs to be tuned a little better.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - You can't use the shoot button in the defensive zone anymore to clear the puck because it targets your own net

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Backskating speed needs to be bumped up like 1 or 2 notches. Something just barely noticeable but effective to help quell the forwards' speed through the neutral zone.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    All in all, The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :). No look backhand passes forced through traffic are not an issue. The countless times somebody uses an actual defensive mechanic properly and still gets beat is not an issue. Holding the stick to the backhand creating a magic bubble is not an issue. None of that is a problem. The answer of course, in this thread designed to be a constructive conversation that has been hijacked by two people who intentionally fuel combative conversations and can seemingly say what they want because they support EA, is "The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)". Wow, so profound! So enlightening. Thank you so much for providing constructive thought! Deny pucks going through objects. Blame the player! The ridiculous amount of content I spent hours of my time, that I do not have a lot of and still volunteered to TRY to help this dump of a forum, compiling from many different sources means absolutely nothing. These gripes are all an illusion. The game is fine. People are, apparently, not allowed to criticize a product they spent money on. I truly hope you never leave anyone a bad review, @KidShowtime1867 . If you do, that would make you a hypocrite. Went to a restaurant and the food was poor? No big deal, you should have played better defense. Bought a car that did not operate safely? No big deal, play better defense. Bought a TV that burned out? Should have played better defense. All those examples are your fault and not the provider of these services or creators of these products. Give. Me. A. Break.

    First of all, @Stephlefan6AX , you have no idea how my friends play. Sorry, I meant played because they quit playing this game due to it's monotony. Adam, Dan, and Mike all do just fine. We play, sorry "played", real hockey and still beat the sweaty, try-hard losers who try to exploit the game about 70% of the time. Division 1 baby. You don't get there being poor. Feel free to bring your boys and challenge us sometime. Oh wait, my friends dont play anymore because the game is so "balanced". But thank you for assuming so much about people you do not know. This thread was started to try and sway the balance of this forum I have read for many years and have seen it devolve into the typical assumptions and condescension that is allowed if you are an EA sympathizer.

    Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals - assumption, presuming Adam sucks. Cool.
    Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease - assumption, presuming to know how other people play. Cool.
    Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division - assumption, presuming Mike sucks. Cool.
    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game. - assumption, presuming that people have gripes because they lost. Cool.

    People like myself, like my friends, like all of those "complainers" in the "community" you like to dump on so much feel neglected, forgotten, and are upset a game they are passionate about has turned into the Fortnite of sports gaming. You want to talk about how to keep this forum community from developing less toxicity? Sure. Let's do that.

    1. When someone does present a constructive thread, community managers MAY comment on it. No developers. God forbid they come on because the few trolls here scared them away. At least dignify those who are TRYING. Concepts are not discussed. Questions are not asked. Questions are not answered.
    2. You then have a few people who are allowed to do nothing but be combative simply because they support EA like puritanical robots. A double standard exists here. I joined this place a few months ago to TRY to bring something to the table and my opinions are allowed to be dumped on DEVOID of anything of substance or constructive thought. Just "you are wrong, I am right, the game is fine, you suck". Awesome!
    3. You then have people who contribute nothing other than pure negativity and "the game is trash". As well as conspiracy theories and concepts that cannot even be proven.

    But no, we are supposed to all play nice and hug each other? Get out of here. I popped on to see if maybe my decision to leave was premature or off base. Apparently I was correct. Thanks for ruining a good idea. Thank you for not supporting someone trying to do what this place is SUPPOSED to be doing. Thank you for sabotaging.

    The golden age of these forums was about 12 years ago. There’s a small handful of people left that try to do what we can, but all the really great video providers left because the videos they shared from NHL 15 about AI issues still haven’t been even remotely fixed in NHL 21. I still like offering help, advice, feedback, but I just keep an insanely low expectation of being heard to stay sane.

    @untouchable_BF1 , I think we would all be living a fiction to think everything we say here can or would be implemented. With that said I think there is a lot of credence to the idea that some of the same crap has existed in this game for an entire console generation and it hasnt been addressed. I can see why there would be an exodus. Almost like core ideas are neglected

    I 100% agree, it’s just simple things like defenders not skating to corner or defenders in a trap not leaving their position of the trap for literally zero productive reason which in turn destroys the trap. I said it in another post I think, but problems like this far outweigh a one-timer animation change or skating style when it comes to replicating hockey. We’re actively being given the more condiments when the burger is still still raw lol.

    I like your commentary, there’s a few of us here who are like-minded, I’d say don’t give up on these forums. They’re small, but the few who post a lot really loyal to the game and tend to understand hockey much more than Reddit or Twitter where there’s just a plethora of people that bash the game without reason or knowledge of the sport.

    At the end of the day, this is just another medium to shout into the void, but I’d like to think the quality of the shouted words is a half-step above here compared to other places lol.

    That is my basic intention. I want the game to have more refined hockey plays. Online is a joke, in my opinion. Offline I have it running okay. The problems with AI movements on and off the puck are cumbersome, the positioning is rough, the speed is odd. All in all I can enjoy offline.

    I started this hoping to develop a central place for us to list our gripes. I DID NOT start this to debate those gripes and be jerks about it.

    Love it man. I feel ya. I too have offline at a playable state, but I won’t touch online unless someone paid me too. I hope Ben’s vision of shareable/playable online slider sets in custom games comes to fruition next-gen. Would love to get a small group of friends who want to play a more realistic version of hockey together and play little leagues, even if we simply use excel, just to be able to play against a human with our own interpretation of “sim” and “balanced” video game hockey.

    Even without that, I have fun creating a custom league and running it through excel. It’s the only way I can enjoy the game right now but it has kept me coming back for a game or two a day which is better than previous games this gen.

    Would you mind posting and comparing our sliders? I think what I have is a decent idea for fun gameplay but I could use some help and maybe help someone else in return

    I will post them as soon as I get to my Xbox. Might not be for another day, but I will tag you when I do post. I’ve found that this game requires you to play at a faster pace than I’d like because it helps the AI recover after becoming lost easier, so my sliders are definitely a good mix of fun/sim elements. Definitely the fastest set I’ve played on in years and it’s still at 0 game speed so it’s nothing insane mind you.

    I also play a very unique way lol. I play 1/2 of every game for both teams so I don’t actually worry too much about the CPU’s offense just a disclaimer. My set is based around making CPU defense more alive and engaging + forcing me to make more real hockey plays. A lot of my set revolves around the strategy page I’d like to think which requires user control of both teams at some point.

    So hopefully you can take bits of mine and apply it your game cause the way I play is truly unique, but it’s also the only way I can enjoy this game.

    Good stuff. I will get mine in order today and list them tomorrow. I can provide some details as to the method of my madness.

    I like the idea to make CPU defense better. Maybe that would give me more variety.

    Thanks dude

    I would love to see a topic from you and Bf1 about your sliders.

    Bf1 had the best I ever tryed in 20. It actually felt like real hockey from time to time.

    I have used his as a base before and liked them. Hopefully we have some up tomorrow.
  • Socair
    2811 posts Game Changer
    Closing temporarily to stop the personal jabs
  • I hope I dont wake up the devil by texting here today! 👹😏

    But I will try to be some what constructive.

    apparently there was no tuner today, but either so, I manage to play some really good games.

    And when you get to play thoose better games, we're things move more smooth, it's easier to see what's missing.

    I like to control one player at the time, I dont switch guy before I have made some sort of move against the puck carrier with the player I have in control. And I always try to find good positioning on the ice, when I dont have the puck.

    And what I saw today is.. Because you can, skate backward with the puck, glide and deke, at the same time you spin, and you can find pretty nasty angles to pass the puck, and all this in pretty high pace/speed, all this stuff makes it 'easy' to find loopholes/short cuts through your way against the opponent's net, without having to face the opponent that try to play hockey with more patience and rather let them come at you then just attack them wild with pokes and hits.

    The time is often not enough to manage to compensate all that goofy stuff you can do to find shortcuts.. For the players out there thats trying to play 'real defense'. It "costs" to much valuable time trying to read the play with only one player that you are in control with, so you often comes abit behind.

    Thoose that just switch players to the closest player at the puck carrier and at the same time drives a random poke and then a hit.. This guys stresses the gameplay extremely hard, to the point were it's almost impossible to keep up, just by playing a straight up hockey.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited January 10
    https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLHUT/comments/ku3iy0/my_biggest_gripes_with_the_game/

    I came across this post on reddit, and I think it really deserves a spot in this "constructive thread", well written and some really good points. I hope some devs can see that too.

    Aa what the heck... Heres the text if anyone want to discuss it:


    This page looks better in the app
    Open
    r/NHLHUT
    rapstersby
    !!NewUser!!
    7h
    My biggest gripes with the game
    Hello! Long time reader of this sub here, as well as an avid NHL gamer since 1993. Like many of the 'older' people out there, I got into hockey games via Blades of Steel and Ice hockey on Nintendo (remember when the loser of a fight would be the one to get penalized?).

    To provide some possibly relevant background information, I am one of seemingly many players who seem to be faring worse in NHL 21 than in the prior versions of the game. In NHL 20, I was a fringe division 2 player in Rivals, whereas in 21 I seem to be struggling a bit to reach even division 3 again (slowly getting there, though). So I'm nowhere near an elite player, but I claim to win more than I lose.

    Anyway, the aim of this post is to point out some of the biggest flaws I've encountered in NHL 21 and HUT. Sorry to start here on such a sour note, but I feel the need to vent out as I've invested so much time and energy into hockey games and especially EA NHL games over the years. So I feel a lot of my whining stems from love and care for the game. And I might even harbor the hope that something good might eventually flow from this, too.

    Many, if not all, of these concerns have been voiced out probably numerous times before, but I feel the need to go on anyway. So let's begin by addressing the first and most obvious thing one encounters upon starting the game before I progress to my main issues with gameplay in NHL 21.

    1. Flawed, unresponsive UI/UX design

    The in-game menus are a bit of a mess, and could use some leaning and straightening out. Although some progress has been made over the years, the buttons and placing for some menu actions still vary inconsistently depending on the context you are in, or what you are trying to do.

    The search and filter functionality in the market place – arguably the single most important functionality in the HUT game mode besides the hockey itself – also needs more looking into. The market place search is slow, unoptimized, and lacking.

    Game menus are unnecessarily complex, and would hugely benefit from a critical, thorough and Lean revision. One example: the only way to effectively search for a specific card is only found outside of the marketplace – under Sets or the (kind of misleadingly named) My Collection. Another example: multiple card synergies are an essential part of the game mode. Yet, you can only search for one synergy at a time. Various search types are contextual, inconsistent, and lacking. You'll find the actions available under a player card will vary depending on where you are.

    Furthermore, the user interface feels laggy and 'sticky': transitions between screens are sluggish, and there is an annoyingly noticeable input lag between menu changes and even within them. I don't know if this is a database issue, poor coding, a platform-related thing, or if it's induced by the fancy swoosh animations; but it's just not good. And it's been that way for ages, too.

    One more thing: hockey and HUT especially is all about stats. Many HUT players are stat junkies. Why can't we have more – and more persistent – player stats? I'd love the opportunity to compare player stats and team stats even for players or cards that are no longer in my team. I'd love to be able to e.g. compare the stats on different overall McDavid cards that I've used over the year. And another obvious one: let players delve into more stats that aren't shown. Obvious example: blocked shots, which are actually used in achievements. This, of course, also applies to in-game stats. Which leads us to my main concerns with the game.

    2. Gameplay issues

    This section breaks down to a few sections.

    2.A Physics issues

    There are numerous physics issues in the game regarding puck and player movement, collision and puck control. E.g. checks or bumps from behind may slow you down instead of prodding you forward.

    Weak poke sticks might still trip players in an unrealistically forceful manner. In real life, you'd have to be fairly incompetent or unlucky to have your stick caught up between the opposing player's skates and/or the ice – most of the time a random weak poke would merely bounce off the feet of the opponent). In NHL 21, the 'auto poke check' seems to be directed exactly at the opposing players feet instead of anywhere near the puck, which leaves me wondering. Of course poke checking is a skill to be mastered like anything else, but why does it have to be that stupid?

    Another major issue is that poke checks that hit the puck will also usually not deflect them into expected directions (e.g. directly away from the pokee). Often, a seemingly correctly timed and placed poke check will not harm the attacker in any manner, instead merely rendering the d-man out of position, and of luck.

    Pucks may also get deflected into directions that would be deemed impossible under Newtonian laws.

    A third, huge issue is players randomly and forcefully toppling over one another in checking situations. This could also be categorized under AI issues, which is discussed further. In any case, these actions and animations related render both checking and hitting far less predictable and effective than it should be.

    It is also not completely uncommon to encounter other, wildly erratic physics bugs (e.g. ragdoll flinging), but these are fairly scarce and random. In conclusion: random, wild physics bugs aren't a problem, but the ones that affect realism and hamper gameplay are.

    2.B Player turning

    One major thing that bugs me is player turning: the pivot point for a 180 degree turn feels weird and inconsistent, and you're never really sure which way you are going to stop and turn. It would seem the pivot point is a bit to the forehand side if you are turning forward, and possibly more straight to the back if you are turning backwards. But after countless hundreds or thousands hours of game time with the recent editions, I feel that I still can't tell this for certain. And there is no way of learning this, either!

    Shielding the puck in a pressure situation, I'd expect to be fairly certain of which way my player is about to turn on a dime: is he going to go left or right? If nothing more, I'd love it if it could be just a bit more adaptive: no one ever wants to turn giving the puck away straight to their opponent.

    If you happen receive the puck on your backhand side, you have effectively lost the puck, because it takes forever to turn to your forehand side. This means everything in NHL 21. This is aggravated by the fact that you have no way of anticipating or switching to the player who is the pass recipient. I would like to see this addressed somehow, as it would certainly alter gameplay. Another thing is that the AI doesn't much anticipate anything as a pass recipient, which leads us to a whole host of issues.

    To me, this problem seems more prevalent in NHL 21 than in previous versions.

    2.C Player switching/changing

    Now this is the one that really drives me nuts. NHL is a very fast game where you'd need to rely upon fast and consistent player switching. More often than not, it's game over if you are reacting half a second late.

    For the life of me I just can't switch between players with any consistency. And I know you should be able to point your stick in the direction of the player you'd like to control, but it just doesn't seem to work properly. This is probably my single biggest gripe with gameplay. And what makes this one so huge is that I feel that it could be corrected very easily.

    Firstly: if I'm not pointing in any direction, have my player change to the one closest to the puck or the puck carrier or to my player closing in on the puck the with the fastest speed. 95% of the time, this is not what I'm seeing now. Please please please pay attention to this.

    Secondly: as has been pointed out here before, bring out the option to put markers on players to indicate who I'm about to switch to when using directional player switching*.* This will immediately add an immensely important amount of consistency and predictability to the feel of player switching in the game. This would at least allow me to adjust and learn somewhat. Now, I'm just second guessing, and most of the time I'm just too late or caught guessing wrong.

    2.D AI issues

    Maybe I should start with the biggest one: player-controlled team AI is excessively stupid and passive. Now I realize you had to draw the line somewhere, but hockey is a team sport. Many, if not all of the plays players make with or without the puck require them to read not only what the opponent, but also what your teammates are going to do next. Right now, this is broken in NHL 21.

    I also feel that dumbing down on the AI is what has caused the surge of the cross crease this year. Yes, you can counter it, but you really shouldn't have to, because you should be able to rely upon your teammates for cover or to even scramble to aid in the simplest of plays.

    Whenever I go on the power play, my players will seem to merely wander around the offensive zone aimlessly, seldom ready to accept passes, move in meaningful directions (which is usually away from the puck carrier instead of bumping toward them), or to align themselves facing the puck or the opposing goal. Without the puck, they will whimper and kindly refrain from any attempts to get the puck back.

    And here's another major thing: on a power play, everybody who watches hockey expects any puck carrier on the shorthanded team to be vigorously checked by at least the closest attacker regardless of strategy choice, with another team member applying at least some pressure on the side. This is not what we're seeing in NHL 21.

    Mid-air pucks as well as board battles are also infuriating, as you are left with no clues as to how to win them. It seems more like a matter of luck – with the exception of the AI, who always ends up winning them.

    Another one: on a 2 on 2 attack, my weak side d-man will regularly and spontaneously cross sides with my other d-man who is in full control of the situation and the puck carrier on his side, instilling pure mayhem on the defensive line in seconds (or less).

    Third one: my AI guys would not try to obtain a loose puck if their lives depended upon it. It's infuriating, silly, and one of the reasons players spill so much hate on the game in these forums.

    You absolutely need to rely on your team mates to some extent. EA: you need to address these issues.

    Oh, and then there's the thing with line changing. It is erratic and broken in a game-breaking manner. Line changing just does not work at all, as many before me here have exemplified.

    Players will either hit a bee line toward the bench completely ignoring the puck, or they may refuse to go for a change completely even after a 7 (!) minute shift. More often than not, I'm just left scrambling and cursing under pressure behind my own net, trying to focus on the wonky controls and puck pursuers at the same time; or icing the puck on my breakout pass when the guy just decides to go for a line change without warning.

    This year, they added the yells from the bench, but you can't really read anything from them, as they're more tips than cues. What's more, they didn't bother to even alter the voices between teams, so you cant' really read anything from them in the hustle and bustle. How about having a player lift their stick (along the lines of the humble stick lift celly) when they're headed for a line change before an impending pass is sent their way?

    Oh, and why can't I be afforded the luxury of time to change my lines and strategies consistently during all kinds of on-ice breaks? Often, the screen will just flash in favor of an animation, and I'm left with the lines from the change before. And I'd like to think that I have a quick head and hands.

    And as Columbo said it... "oh, one more thing". Why do my players repeatedly drive my own net when my goalie is scrambling for a save? This is a repeating issue, and I've had numerous goals scored on me because my AI players keep bumping my own goalie off the puck. This is a stupid, frivolous thing. Please get rid of it.

    These are the kinds of reasons that lend to why I feel that NHL 21 is not so much about playing a solid team game as it is playing a solid solo game where you know the right moves. Against AI teams and on 1 vs. 1 online play, you can get by the AI's faults if you know how to dangle correctly and play according to the game's peculiarities; playing how what NHL 21 expects you instead of how individual situations or games would be played in real hockey.

    You could naturally argue that any game is about knowing the right moves. And I would agree! But my point is that the bias now is too much focused on the solo skill effort at the cost of the nerfed-down AI.

    ...

    So I guess these are my major gripes with the game. Sorry for the insanely long post, and thanks for anyone who beared with me until the end. Peace, and here's hoping for even better hockey games for us in the future. And cheers to any EA devs or community representatives who might stumble upon this post. I may be a whiny middle aged person with too much time on their hands, but I still think you're doing a fine job!"

    End of text: and again, this is not my words, it's from reddit!
  • thegarden94
    457 posts Member
    edited January 10
    Sega he's spot on in my opinion especially about the AI ,but will EA fix any of these issues ,nope because it will make most of the elite unhappy
  • Great find there, Sega. That poster details a lot of this iterations issues quite well.

    Perhaps now @EA_Aljo or @EA_Blueberry will give this thread another look.
  • Yeah that guy 'rapstersby' definitely deserve some cred, as he puts it. I think there's alot of us that 'knows the problem, but its not as easy to describe it in words' especially in a constructive manner, and I think he did it very well there.

    I was close, the other day, to create a post about the importance of player switching, how big factor that is for the generally game-flow to be good. But even that was in that post, I think he says it very good!

    👍👍
  • Guys they wont fix the defensive AI because it's playing exactly they way it was programed to play ,go back and watch their game play video ,in one clip they blame the player for a mistake that clearly the weak side defender AI does ,in the same clip you see how badly the other AI's defensive coverage is on the back check ,all if this is done to create space to make it seem they actually made the Offensive AI smarter by looking for passing lanes
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited January 10
    Sega he's spot on in my opinion especially about the AI ,but will EA fix any of these issues ,nope because it will make most of the elite unhappy

    Without any knowledge on how to create TV-games I will go so far by sayin, if the Dev team will focus on alot of the things that was on that list, I think the game could take a huge step forward.

    I dont know if this kinda things is already well known for them, but in reality, difficult to get right, but I do hope they give this (reddit) post some attention.
  • thegarden94
    457 posts Member
    edited January 10
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega he's spot on in my opinion especially about the AI ,but will EA fix any of these issues ,nope because it will make most of the elite unhappy

    Without any knowledge on how to create TV-games I will go so far by sayin, if the Dev team will focus on alot of the things that was on that list, I think the game could take a huge step forward.

    I dont know if this kinda things is already well known for them, but in reality, difficult to get right, but I do hope they give this (reddit) post some attention.

    Sorry Sega I don't see it happening ,let's go back to 19 when the game first came out a lot of people thought it was great ,but as soon as some of the elite with a few others started complaining about it being to hard to score because the goalie's were to good boom , there were changes upon changes done to the game until it pleased a lot of the right people.

    There was also an ex game changer who was on this forum that said he left the program because he didn't like the direction the game was taking it was going to become more of an arcade game than a hockey sim ,and he wasn't wrong from what what we are seeing
    Post edited by thegarden94 on
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited January 10
    It was interesting to read part, 2.B Player turning. That has bugged me for years. How easy it is to loose control and spin a half circle. Almost feels like there's another person thats trying to take control over your player and turn him to another direaction.

    The transmission from going side to side and up and down could definitely feel alot smoother. Without you having to fight the hand-controller every time. I wish this could be abit like real skating, once you learn it, there's nothing you have to think, you just do, and the legs will follow you.

    And another thing how poke checks affect your player on the ice, if the opponent is far away from you and can do no direct harm but comes at you with continual pokes, even if the distances is several meters between you and him, the room for you to carry the puck will get affected negative by he's unrestrained poking, as if he 'eats up' ice surface for you to use. It's a remakable difference dependent on how the opponent choose to forecheck.

    I dont like that feeling, that my players can get affected negative by things that my opponent's choose to do far away from were the puck are. I shouldnt have to adjust because of that.

  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited January 11
    I dont know how this will sound or if it's to 'whiny' to be anywhere near constructive.

    I always try to play hockey and with a variety in my games. Dump and chase, sauce passes, set up behind the net, and search for clear shots as soon as I see my chance for a nice goal.

    So far so good, but here's what I notice/feel, I can't get the so importen fortune to be on my side, it's like im soooo close to get the puck with me, but instead It goes against me.

    My shots is blocked more by my own players then my opponent meanwhile opponent manage to deflect a desperate shot he has to take cause the cross crease startin to be closed, my poke checks usally dont break loose the puck, as my opponent's attempt do, and rebounds is often picked up by the opponent just infront of my nose and in my own zone when the opponent finaly shot, he also often gets the rebound.

    He gets bar in, I get bar out. And so on..

    Every little moment I need on my side, to play fun hockey, goes instead to the other side.

    And that side is often to players that try to play everything else then hockey. It feels so frustrating, like 'you that dont even try to play hockey, gets every little bounce/poke /shot/pass with you, it should be me, thats trying to play hockey, that get all that with me'.

    It's like you shouldnt try to play as authentic as you can, cause it won't give you much back.


    But it might not be as bad as it sounds , the positive side is, that it's often not that much thats missing from being a perfect hockey play, and sometimes it all click, and it's wonderful to play and the opponent seem to have no clue on whats going on. But this maybe happen 2 or 3 times against 40-50 times were the opponent can play he's infected hockey and still got every little inch of "luck" in he's favor.

    But I hope EA can find the magic formula and send over the luck to thoose that deserve it, in other words, to everyone that trying there best to play by the 'rule of hockey'.

    Cause as I said, it dosent feel like it's too far away, from being "awsome".. but to get this little back from the game, were you constantly try to mix up your play and have fun, and then loose to someone that - only - go for 1 or 2 play, it sucks and you loose your desire to play.

    Hope this didn't come off to whiny or that you think im just a bad loser, it wasen't my intention.

    All good here 😉
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    "Cross crease is all you see. It is boring." - Adam. Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals
    "Every game we play is the same. I want dynamism. " - Dan. Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease
    "This game is reliant on who can exploit it better. 1 in 10 games is hockey, the rest is loop, loop, force a pass. Who cares if we win? That is not the point. Total monotony." - Mike. Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division

    this game is fun cause we can score many ways. from behind the net like last year as example.

    The views presented here are shared by no small number of people who have been playing this game for a considerable length of time. Not a bunch of scrubs who don't know how to play the game.

    The exact issue is that while there are more new fun ways to score... there are few to none new ways to counter/defend against that.

    I'm sure these new mechanics are great fun for forwards but for those of us who play D (and most assuredly goalie) and are stuck with largely broken and unreliable tools for playing defense, it is making things much LESS enjoyable. I am all for improvements for some but not at the expense of others.

    I play defense exclusively and I have had only a small number of gripes with the functionality there.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)
    There is a 27 page thread that indicates you may be in the minority on this. I will assume you also play club (?) where some of this is probably greatly mitigated.

    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game.

    IceLion68 wrote: »

    Out of curiosity, what *are* your gripes?

    - Users are able to execute no-look, behind the back passes with 100% accuracy.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can hold the puck to their backhand/forehand and maintain momentum and speed for too many frames while also having top tier agility and balance.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. defensive coverage in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - A.I. offensive awareness in front of the net is, at times, abysmal.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Puck protect at low speeds is still slightly too OP.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Sometimes a well-timed poke check in the direction of the intended receiver on a cross-crease attempt results in the poke targeting (and then missing) the incoming puck rather than disrupting the shot and/or substantially decreasing the accuracy of a shot

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - In the same scenario (a cross-crease attempt) less skilled players can simply lay down in the passing lane, slide directly in to their goalie, but their goalie still is able to make the save.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Players are still able to keep control of the puck while intentionally skating directly in to the boards in order to protect their possession. Skating directly in to the boards while holding the puck should result in the puck being knocked loose.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Users can spam R3 poke - I know because I currently do it. The accuracy of each subsequent poke check should be reduced and eventually head in to penalty territory.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Interference calls for shoving players in the slot or in front of the goalie. There seems to be an area of the ice where no calls are made, but it's inconsistent at times.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - LT still chaps me. Players still abuse it, particularly at low speeds. It needs to be nerfed.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Player changing needs to be fine tuned a little more. It's better this year, but I'm still finding player switching inconsistent. Icon-based switching would be ideal. RT+R3 works well for taking control of a player in front of the net, but RT+RS isn't as consistent as I'd like. I'm often flicking my stick to the right (to take control of RW) but it switches me to center. I think it needs to be tuned a little better.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - You can't use the shoot button in the defensive zone anymore to clear the puck because it targets your own net

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    - Backskating speed needs to be bumped up like 1 or 2 notches. Something just barely noticeable but effective to help quell the forwards' speed through the neutral zone.

    The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)

    All in all, The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :). No look backhand passes forced through traffic are not an issue. The countless times somebody uses an actual defensive mechanic properly and still gets beat is not an issue. Holding the stick to the backhand creating a magic bubble is not an issue. None of that is a problem. The answer of course, in this thread designed to be a constructive conversation that has been hijacked by two people who intentionally fuel combative conversations and can seemingly say what they want because they support EA, is "The system isn't broken - just gotta play better defense :)". Wow, so profound! So enlightening. Thank you so much for providing constructive thought! Deny pucks going through objects. Blame the player! The ridiculous amount of content I spent hours of my time, that I do not have a lot of and still volunteered to TRY to help this dump of a forum, compiling from many different sources means absolutely nothing. These gripes are all an illusion. The game is fine. People are, apparently, not allowed to criticize a product they spent money on. I truly hope you never leave anyone a bad review, @KidShowtime1867 . If you do, that would make you a hypocrite. Went to a restaurant and the food was poor? No big deal, you should have played better defense. Bought a car that did not operate safely? No big deal, play better defense. Bought a TV that burned out? Should have played better defense. All those examples are your fault and not the provider of these services or creators of these products. Give. Me. A. Break.

    First of all, @Stephlefan6AX , you have no idea how my friends play. Sorry, I meant played because they quit playing this game due to it's monotony. Adam, Dan, and Mike all do just fine. We play, sorry "played", real hockey and still beat the sweaty, try-hard losers who try to exploit the game about 70% of the time. Division 1 baby. You don't get there being poor. Feel free to bring your boys and challenge us sometime. Oh wait, my friends dont play anymore because the game is so "balanced". But thank you for assuming so much about people you do not know. This thread was started to try and sway the balance of this forum I have read for many years and have seen it devolve into the typical assumptions and condescension that is allowed if you are an EA sympathizer.

    Cause Adam don't know how to defend cross crease goals - assumption, presuming Adam sucks. Cool.
    Cause Dan is trying only to score cross crease - assumption, presuming to know how other people play. Cool.
    Cause Mike is not good enough to move up on division - assumption, presuming Mike sucks. Cool.
    a 27-page thread on a message board where 90% of the people come here just to rage after a loss is not indicative of the state of the game. - assumption, presuming that people have gripes because they lost. Cool.

    People like myself, like my friends, like all of those "complainers" in the "community" you like to dump on so much feel neglected, forgotten, and are upset a game they are passionate about has turned into the Fortnite of sports gaming. You want to talk about how to keep this forum community from developing less toxicity? Sure. Let's do that.

    1. When someone does present a constructive thread, community managers MAY comment on it. No developers. God forbid they come on because the few trolls here scared them away. At least dignify those who are TRYING. Concepts are not discussed. Questions are not asked. Questions are not answered.
    2. You then have a few people who are allowed to do nothing but be combative simply because they support EA like puritanical robots. A double standard exists here. I joined this place a few months ago to TRY to bring something to the table and my opinions are allowed to be dumped on DEVOID of anything of substance or constructive thought. Just "you are wrong, I am right, the game is fine, you suck". Awesome!
    3. You then have people who contribute nothing other than pure negativity and "the game is trash". As well as conspiracy theories and concepts that cannot even be proven.

    But no, we are supposed to all play nice and hug each other? Get out of here. I popped on to see if maybe my decision to leave was premature or off base. Apparently I was correct. Thanks for ruining a good idea. Thank you for not supporting someone trying to do what this place is SUPPOSED to be doing. Thank you for sabotaging.

    The golden age of these forums was about 12 years ago. There’s a small handful of people left that try to do what we can, but all the really great video providers left because the videos they shared from NHL 15 about AI issues still haven’t been even remotely fixed in NHL 21. I still like offering help, advice, feedback, but I just keep an insanely low expectation of being heard to stay sane.

    @untouchable_BF1 , I think we would all be living a fiction to think everything we say here can or would be implemented. With that said I think there is a lot of credence to the idea that some of the same crap has existed in this game for an entire console generation and it hasnt been addressed. I can see why there would be an exodus. Almost like core ideas are neglected

    I 100% agree, it’s just simple things like defenders not skating to corner or defenders in a trap not leaving their position of the trap for literally zero productive reason which in turn destroys the trap. I said it in another post I think, but problems like this far outweigh a one-timer animation change or skating style when it comes to replicating hockey. We’re actively being given the more condiments when the burger is still still raw lol.

    I like your commentary, there’s a few of us here who are like-minded, I’d say don’t give up on these forums. They’re small, but the few who post a lot really loyal to the game and tend to understand hockey much more than Reddit or Twitter where there’s just a plethora of people that bash the game without reason or knowledge of the sport.

    At the end of the day, this is just another medium to shout into the void, but I’d like to think the quality of the shouted words is a half-step above here compared to other places lol.

    That is my basic intention. I want the game to have more refined hockey plays. Online is a joke, in my opinion. Offline I have it running okay. The problems with AI movements on and off the puck are cumbersome, the positioning is rough, the speed is odd. All in all I can enjoy offline.

    I started this hoping to develop a central place for us to list our gripes. I DID NOT start this to debate those gripes and be jerks about it.

    Love it man. I feel ya. I too have offline at a playable state, but I won’t touch online unless someone paid me too. I hope Ben’s vision of shareable/playable online slider sets in custom games comes to fruition next-gen. Would love to get a small group of friends who want to play a more realistic version of hockey together and play little leagues, even if we simply use excel, just to be able to play against a human with our own interpretation of “sim” and “balanced” video game hockey.

    Even without that, I have fun creating a custom league and running it through excel. It’s the only way I can enjoy the game right now but it has kept me coming back for a game or two a day which is better than previous games this gen.

    Would you mind posting and comparing our sliders? I think what I have is a decent idea for fun gameplay but I could use some help and maybe help someone else in return

    I will post them as soon as I get to my Xbox. Might not be for another day, but I will tag you when I do post. I’ve found that this game requires you to play at a faster pace than I’d like because it helps the AI recover after becoming lost easier, so my sliders are definitely a good mix of fun/sim elements. Definitely the fastest set I’ve played on in years and it’s still at 0 game speed so it’s nothing insane mind you.

    I also play a very unique way lol. I play 1/2 of every game for both teams so I don’t actually worry too much about the CPU’s offense just a disclaimer. My set is based around making CPU defense more alive and engaging + forcing me to make more real hockey plays. A lot of my set revolves around the strategy page I’d like to think which requires user control of both teams at some point.

    So hopefully you can take bits of mine and apply it your game cause the way I play is truly unique, but it’s also the only way I can enjoy this game.

    Good stuff. I will get mine in order today and list them tomorrow. I can provide some details as to the method of my madness.

    I like the idea to make CPU defense better. Maybe that would give me more variety.

    Thanks dude

    I would love to see a topic from you and Bf1 about your sliders.

    Bf1 had the best I ever tryed in 20. It actually felt like real hockey from time to time.

    I have used his as a base before and liked them. Hopefully we have some up tomorrow.

    Sorry I haven’t replied. I just can’t find a slider set that I really have wanted to stick with. The few I did find were constantly plagued by the speed glitch and I was just tired of fighting that so I switched to a more “default” skating paced set to offset that, but haven’t found anything that’s been particularly fun.

    The way AI on both teams just doesn’t want the puck at times makes for a really frustrating experience because you can find a set that does something relatively well for awhile, but eventually you just see “breakdowns” which aren’t even breakdowns, they’re just a seemingly lack of “care” by the AI which lets you walk right in and pick a corner.

    I think if the speed glitch didn’t exist, I’d have found my sliders to use in this game, but I’m just kind of mentally exhausted at this point. I know having a most fast paced game mitigates the AI blunders, but anything I do on Pro difficulty with that approach is way too easy unlike it was at slower settings. Might mess around tonight with an all-star or superstar set to see if anything feels right, and try to actually give you a set to bounce ideas off of.

    On an unrelated note, played some NHL Hitz Pro this weekend and it’s still the best sim on-ice game experience I’ve ever played minus the zero on-the-fly line changes. The game is just small positional/meta choice improvements away from being perfect imo. Zone time being rewarded (actually having a slider for it as well) is absolutely unreal. Few tweaks the game needed were: first shots are slightly underpowered, rebound control on far out shots was atrocious (really the only “exploit” goal) high-danger one-timers are too easy to get off (goalies can be tweaked to mitigate this) goalies don’t bite enough on just passing (read: can’t freeze them/get them to over commit with multiple passes) and obviously there’s no screening element or OTF line changes, but everything else is just incredible. Diving shots, diving block animations, CPU constantly collapsing and diving around to block shots, the goalie is diving around and getting tired even if no pucks actually get through during these scrambles, puck physics are extremely good for a 2003 game leading to organic 50/50 battles, and it’s just such a great balance of sim and skill determining the winner when your sliders are set correctly. The NZ is hard to get through, CPU is very aggressive when they corner you, there’s a dedicated dump button that can be used for chipping in and out of zones + cycling along the wall in the ozone. You can actually beat the CPU to loose pucks/missed shots in the corner as their CPU don’t have an unfair skating advantage.

    Man, that game is just insane. I know there’s a few cult members like me who still play it to this day, and it’s a feeling that I’m still chasing to this day. No other hockey game has given me this perfect balance of skill and sim and grit and finesse that Hitz Pro did. The CPU is very “fair” and their strategy to win is impressive. They go for the “exploit” shots (far out rebounds) a lot and can very much **** your offense down completely if you’re not having any puck luck. Your AI actually want the puck most of the time, there’s always a cycle option and a guy in-front for tips. It’s just such a great representation of the beautiful chaos that hockey can be. I honestly can’t state enough what a hidden gem that game is. If this games wants to get better, they need to start playing that game with some sim sliders to understand just how fun and unpredictable a hockey game can and should be. It’s the undisputed gold standard imo.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how this will sound or if it's to 'whiny' to be anywhere near constructive.

    I always try to play hockey and with a variety in my games. Dump and chase, sauce passes, set up behind the net, and search for clear shots as soon as I see my chance for a nice goal.

    So far so good, but here's what I notice/feel, I can't get the so importen fortune to be on my side, it's like im soooo close to get the puck with me, but instead It goes against me.

    My shots is blocked more by my own players then my opponent meanwhile opponent manage to deflect a desperate shot he has to take cause the cross crease startin to be closed, my poke checks usally dont break loose the puck, as my opponent's attempt do, and rebounds is often picked up by the opponent just infront of my nose and in my own zone when the opponent finaly shot, he also often gets the rebound.

    He gets bar in, I get bar out. And so on..

    Every little moment I need on my side, to play fun hockey, goes instead to the other side.

    And that side is often to players that try to play everything else then hockey. It feels so frustrating, like 'you that dont even try to play hockey, gets every little bounce/poke /shot/pass with you, it should be me, thats trying to play hockey, that get all that with me'.

    It's like you shouldnt try to play as authentic as you can, cause it won't give you much back.


    But it might not be as bad as it sounds , the positive side is, that it's often not that much thats missing from being a perfect hockey play, and sometimes it all click, and it's wonderful to play and the opponent seem to have no clue on whats going on. But this maybe happen 2 or 3 times against 40-50 times were the opponent can play he's infected hockey and still got every little inch of "luck" in he's favor.

    But I hope EA can find the magic formula and send over the luck to thoose that deserve it, in other words, to everyone that trying there best to play by the 'rule of hockey'.

    Cause as I said, it dosent feel like it's too far away, from being "awsome".. but to get this little back from the game, were you constantly try to mix up your play and have fun, and then loose to someone that - only - go for 1 or 2 play, it sucks and you loose your desire to play.

    Hope this didn't come off to whiny or that you think im just a bad loser, it wasen't my intention.

    All good here 😉

    Maybe this explain/show what I mean.
    I like the idea that the player that have control, should also have the 'puck luck' on their side. But it often feels like it's the complete opposite, the more desperate you are, the more likely you get the bounces with you.

    In this video, I felt like I did it by the book, First forced him out to the corner and then cut him off to get a cross crease. And with full control, I didn't poke a trillion times against the puck carrier and I didn't just throw myself down on the ice in a last final desperation, I played it cool, meanwhile he was more desperate, and was just hoping that blind-pass would work, but instead the puck goes by my stick blade down to my right skate and to the hands of Stamkos.

    And it dosent just feel like a coincidence, bad luck so to speak, this 'type of small things' happens quite alot, and often to the favor of the more desperate/uncontrolled player.




    *I quoted myself, but thats okey, I often talk to myself... 😏


  • Another not so much 'puck luck' example.

    He takes a tripping call, but the puck ends up in my own net.

    Not - that - surprised.

    I must have a really bad karma..


  • And here is a puck that goes my way.. And thanks to that, it became to be one of my most realistic goals I ever score. Nothing pretty about it, but what felt nice was when I started to realize, this rebound will go to me!.. All tough I was abit surprise it actually did. 😏

    There’s so many tiny moments in this game, that decides if it's going to be perfect or just a mess...
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