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Poke check spamming

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  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Since release we've been hearing complaints about how the game is all about offense and that defense doesn't get the same attention. As well as defense, in general, being too challenging this year. Now, has this changed and it's too easy to defend because poke checks are too successful?

    Why deal in absolutes?

    Interceptions favor offense.
    Poke checks favor defense.
    Puck control favors offense.
    Speed favors offense.
    Agility favors offense.

    Poke checking is all defenders have in this game. Defenders are required to be perfect. Forwards can force passes and find success. The slightest error by a defender is death. Errors by forwards are rarely met with true consequence.

    Watch streamers play in tournaments. The games are an exploit fest. It is boring because it is not balanced.
  • poke checks are equal for offens. No difference there. And I dont like how it's used because it's mainly without any control.

    My opinion.
  • Sega82mega
    4307 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    But im all for to somehow make offens (ugly awkward offens= blind passes) much harder to get away with.. There are ways to 'exploit' offensive advantage for you, but there isn't any really good way to 'exploit' the defense to get advantage.

    I dont count 'poke checks' cause as I said, you can use the poke checks exactly the same way in your forecheck as when you playing defense, it's 'fair' for both sides.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.
  • Sega82mega
    4307 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    Yes, This
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    Yup you said it perfect, im done here! 😏👍
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    Yes, This

    Remember NHK 2K poke checking? It was a very deliberate animation. If you timed it right it was super effective and sometimes resulted in a body position play as well. If you missed though you were getting burned badly. Risk vs reward rather than poke vs penalty
  • EA_Aljo
    3213 posts EA Community Manager
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    I have had this happen in EASHL games. Not every time because often I'm backskating and poking, but you can still get burned with a missed poke that results in an odd man rush.

    Regardless of poke checks being spammed, if you're constantly losing the puck to pokes, you're letting defenders get too close. Part of protecting the puck and retaining possession is using your teammates.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    I have had this happen in EASHL games. Not every time because often I'm backskating and poking, but you can still get burned with a missed poke that results in an odd man rush.

    Regardless of poke checks being spammed, if you're constantly losing the puck to pokes, you're letting defenders get too close. Part of protecting the puck and retaining possession is using your teammates.

    @EA_Aljo , I am speaking purely in terms of there is seemingly no loss of speed when you lunge. If you are skating side by side with a forward you can miss without taking a penalty but stay right beside the carrier. I read somewhere the reasoning for no loss in speed with DSS. Which is legit. But when it comes to the actual singular poke check you can do it without losing speed.

    Perhaps using a single poke and missing it you should be penalized with loss in speed? Could this possibly help with spamming?
  • Sega82mega
    4307 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Yeah it's only the spamming that damage the gameplay so much, instead of doing 2-3 separate pokes, you can do 5-6 'pokes' under the same time just by running with your DSS as a plow/shield.

    And im sayin this out of my perspective of the 'perfect' hockey game, the game is not bad as it is, but it can defenetly be better.

    *I did some HUT challenges for the first time in 21, and if every human would play like the CPU, it would be a great game, but thats the hardest part, to adjust the game best for everyone that still want to play hockey, and so that thoose that play something diffrent from hockey, has to pay for it.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah it's only the spamming that damage the gameplay so much, instead of doing 2-3 separate pokes, you can do 5-6 'pokes' under the same time just by running with your DSS as a plow/shield.

    And im sayin this out of my perspective of the 'perfect' hockey game, the game is not bad as it is, but it can defenetly be better.

    *I did some HUT challenges for the first time in 21, and if every human would play like the CPU, it would be a great game, but thats the hardest part, to adjust the game best for everyone that still want to play hockey, and so that thoose that play something diffrent from hockey, has to pay for it.

    Sega, it almost seems like you are an offline player living in an online world. ;)
  • Beauts90 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah it's only the spamming that damage the gameplay so much, instead of doing 2-3 separate pokes, you can do 5-6 'pokes' under the same time just by running with your DSS as a plow/shield.

    And im sayin this out of my perspective of the 'perfect' hockey game, the game is not bad as it is, but it can defenetly be better.

    *I did some HUT challenges for the first time in 21, and if every human would play like the CPU, it would be a great game, but thats the hardest part, to adjust the game best for everyone that still want to play hockey, and so that thoose that play something diffrent from hockey, has to pay for it.

    Sega, it almost seems like you are an offline player living in an online world. ;)

    Hehe well I am.. Mostly because I dont like to fool a CPU - brain.. I dont get a kick out of that.. But instead I get kicked by the online cross crease speed - fest.

    Im born in the wrong time at the wrong place! 😫

    😏
  • Poke check spamming should not be even discussed unless you add "from behind".

    Players should be allowed to have an active stick on defense, but if they're going through legs from behind then go ahead and punish them.
  • Poke check spamming should not be even discussed unless you add "from behind".

    Players should be allowed to have an active stick on defense, but if they're going through legs from behind then go ahead and punish them.

    Yup, 'from behind' does not have a place on a hockey rink!

    * And seriously, yes thats especially what I mean. Other then that, bring your sticks!
  • Leckaroo
    88 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    amxblade wrote: »
    Poke checking, like in real hockey, should be a methodical, thought out action. I've played for over 30 years and have yet to see someone running around the ice simply swinging their stick around constantly or poking it forward 100 times a minute in hopes of knocking the puck loose. Real defenceman choose the perfect timing to do it otherwise if they miss, there's a chance they could get burnt. This whole idea of full speed and just mashing RB is ridiculous.

    Not very players in my 30 plus years of playing hockey have the puck on a string at top end speeds, or blindly one time a puck 90mph receiving passes at awkward angles either like every other skater in this game. It's a video game though.

    The game isn't perfect but poke check spamming? Gimme a break. I'm not sure it's even a thing but if it is... sounds like the playing field leveled out a bit.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    I have had this happen in EASHL games. Not every time because often I'm backskating and poking, but you can still get burned with a missed poke that results in an odd man rush.

    Regardless of poke checks being spammed, if you're constantly losing the puck to pokes, you're letting defenders get too close. Part of protecting the puck and retaining possession is using your teammates.

    Did you watch the video that was posted? How in hell can you defend a guy poking like a mad man from BEHIND and through the legs with no real penalty? Protect the puck?? He has his whole body there to do so. Dont defend and idiotic play that was not penalized in the game, come on.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    I have had this happen in EASHL games. Not every time because often I'm backskating and poking, but you can still get burned with a missed poke that results in an odd man rush.

    Regardless of poke checks being spammed, if you're constantly losing the puck to pokes, you're letting defenders get too close. Part of protecting the puck and retaining possession is using your teammates.

    Did you watch the video that was posted? How in hell can you defend a guy poking like a mad man from BEHIND and through the legs with no real penalty? Protect the puck?? He has his whole body there to do so. Dont defend and idiotic play that was not penalized in the game, come on.

    This happens all the time ,and even after a video showing how bad it is still it's the players fault never the game
  • EA_Aljo
    3213 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I dont know how to best say it. But I like the effect a successful poke has on the puck, nothing wrong there. What I dont like is the way you can get to the puck, by poking many times, from behind, without losing any speed or space to the puck carrier, you can chase the puck carrier from offensive zone to your own, with the stick constantly in the way for the carrier.

    And you can play it by ear, by poking through legs without any damage. Which ofc in the long run leads to a much more uninhibited use of the DSS, cause you learned how to take "shortcuts" without any risk of penalty.

    I am curious why a poorly timed pokecheck does not lead to losing your gap - speed as well. It would certainly help with the spam concept.

    Yup agree, would force people to think abit more before they use it. I dont dislike the feeling we got when we use our DSS/poke, thats almost perfect, it's more how repetitive you can be without any punish.

    100%. Would be nice if the error for poor timing a poke was less taking a penalty and more forfeiting your space and position.

    I have had this happen in EASHL games. Not every time because often I'm backskating and poking, but you can still get burned with a missed poke that results in an odd man rush.

    Regardless of poke checks being spammed, if you're constantly losing the puck to pokes, you're letting defenders get too close. Part of protecting the puck and retaining possession is using your teammates.

    Did you watch the video that was posted? How in hell can you defend a guy poking like a mad man from BEHIND and through the legs with no real penalty? Protect the puck?? He has his whole body there to do so. Dont defend and idiotic play that was not penalized in the game, come on.

    It looks like he's holding DSS. A penalty is called when your stick sweeps from inside the leg to the outside. They kept their stick between their legs until they let go of DSS. At that point, the stick can pass through bodies/objects. In most cases, a penalty is going to be called if you're poking from behind because it's going to be difficult to keep your stick perfectly between a player's legs. We're not going to force a penalty if they aren't meeting the requirements for one to happen.

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