Is being worked on, and if so, how? Is it even acknowledged by EA? Most other questions on this forum get acknowledged, but I'm not seeing anything on this. Thanks.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down. [/quote]
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down.
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down.
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training
Yeah thats more or less what I mean.
Every person that play this game has he's own skill level to be a jurk. Everyone can hold the puck to their own team. Some better some worst.
And if you are both "good at this game and also a tool" chances are high he will do hes best to rag out the game. If you have the puck, there's no chance the opponent will score.
But I hate this side of the game and I hope it could be even harder to puck rag. At the same time, I dont want EA to take away the ability for me to keep the puck 'in a good/fair' way. I love to have puck possession and take long time before a see my chance to attack. But Im proud to say I never been a puck ragger.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down. [/quote]
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.[/quote]
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training ;)[/quote]
Puck ragging is not a strategy, it is an exploit.
This is a hockey video game. Puck ragging is doing something that in no way, shape, or form occurs in actual hockey, ever. No team on the planet has ever circled their own net once they're up by a goal. Desperate/insecure/low talent players use it in this game because they know that the way the gameplay mechanics are built, it is very time consuming and almost impossible to combat it with a proper forecheck. Yes it can possibly be done if you get lucky, but the time it takes runs out the clock, which is exactly what a ragger wants.
Saying that I have to adapt to an exploit or quit (and resign to taking a loss) if other players do it is completely unacceptable. In no sports game ever should players have to quit because their opponent is using an exploit. I respect your opinion but your comparisons to other games don't work, this is apples and oranges.
The point of this post, however, isn't to get everyone's opinions on puck ragging, that's been done before. It's to learn about what EA is doing to combat it.
I've been puck ragged by players before, googled their tags, and found that they're being advertised in EA's pro league stats. This is a serious concern to me; it shows that EA either isn't aware of how often this occurs, or they are aware and do not care because they consider that acceptable (I don't believe this would be the case and I sure hope it wouldn't). If EA knows this occurs and chooses to do nothing, that would at least be done closure, as players who want an online experience that is fair could just uninstall and part ways with the game going forward.
All I'm asking is for EA to acknowledge that it's an issue that has a massive negative impact on the entire community, and to state whether or not they're going to address it. Those are pretty quick and simple actions.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down.
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training
Puck ragging is not a strategy, it is an exploit.
This is a hockey video game. Puck ragging is doing something that in no way, shape, or form occurs in actual hockey, ever. No team on the planet has ever circled their own net once they're up by a goal. Desperate/insecure/low talent players use it in this game because they know that the way the gameplay mechanics are built, it is very time consuming and almost impossible to combat it with a proper forecheck. Yes it can possibly be done if you get lucky, but the time it takes runs out the clock, which is exactly what a ragger wants.
Saying that I have to adapt to an exploit or quit (and resign to taking a loss) if other players do it is completely unacceptable. In no sports game ever should players have to quit because their opponent is using an exploit. I respect your opinion but your comparisons to other games don't work, this is apples and oranges.
The point of this post, however, isn't to get everyone's opinions on puck ragging, that's been done before. It's to learn about what EA is doing to combat it.
I've been puck ragged by players before, googled their tags, and found that they're being advertised in EA's pro league stats. This is a serious concern to me; it shows that EA either isn't aware of how often this occurs, or they are aware and do not care because they consider that acceptable (I don't believe this would be the case and I sure hope it wouldn't). If EA knows this occurs and chooses to do nothing, that would at least be done closure, as players who want an online experience that is fair could just uninstall and part ways with the game going forward.
All I'm asking is for EA to acknowledge that it's an issue that has a massive negative impact on the entire community, and to state whether or not they're going to address it. Those are pretty quick and simple actions.
I do bealive if there was real human referee's and real human audience, this would not be a problem. But it's just you on one side of the world and your opponent on another side of the world, and everything is over a computer controlled 'engine'.
No mather how much we want it to be real, it's never gonna get there.
And again, what would be the best way to get a really good EA NHL player to stop holding on to the puck, as long as he can, everytime he gets the hold of the puck?.... I can't really say... There are some times I feel the A.I might be able to do a better job.. So it's easier to switch between players and continue to pressure. But other then that..?
But yes, it would be fun to hear how EA are thinking about this side of the game. How to fix it - without destroy anything else..
But to be clear and honest, on the skill level I 'choose' to play, I've never direct experience any puck raggers, I break them down pretty easy. But im sure if I played on a higher level, I would have much more problems to 'force' them to a turnover. Quick enough.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down.
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training
I have to disagree 110%. Like others have said, ragging is not a strategy. Regrouping in your zone is, but circling your net with no intent to attack is not. Its a cheap exploit that EA let's continue.
[quote="HurricaneFza;c-2184119"]They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down.... [/quote]
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
Okey thanks. But whole thing sounds strange, especially if it did fix puck rag, without taking away too much freedom on the ice.
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
If scoring was the only thing we cared about, there would be one mode with an open net that let you score at will. We care about defense and it's an integral part of the game. It's also a very challenging position to play and many are excellent at meeting that challenge. What would you suggest to make playing defense easier or more fun so that it matches what can be done on offense?
As far as ragging goes, blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging. It also wouldn't be a good solution as people can still easily pass before they go down. We're very well aware of the issue with ragging and if it were easy to stop, that would have been done by now. You guys can speculate on what you feel would fix this, but if it were that easy, it would have been done by now. Hopefully, we'll see a good solution that also doesn't go against the rules or what would be realistic in a real game of hockey.
I also don't think anyone can just dangle and snipe with ease. It takes skill to pull these moves off. Yes, the controls might not be terribly difficult but knowing when to use them is just as important. If someone can use a well-placed windmill deke or toe drag to get by defenders, that's because they read the positioning of the defender and knew this move would be a good way to get around them. Defense needs to realize they are open to being beat by these moves and better position themselves to stop it. Part of success on either end of the ice is reading the play and using hockey sense and anticipation to determine what action you take. No matter how easy offense might be, it all can be stopped by good defense.
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
If scoring was the only thing we cared about, there would be one mode with an open net that let you score at will. We care about defense and it's an integral part of the game. It's also a very challenging position to play and many are excellent at meeting that challenge. What would you suggest to make playing defense easier or more fun so that it matches what can be done on offense?
As far as ragging goes, blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging. It also wouldn't be a good solution as people can still easily pass before they go down. We're very well aware of the issue with ragging and if it were easy to stop, that would have been done by now. You guys can speculate on what you feel would fix this, but if it were that easy, it would have been done by now. Hopefully, we'll see a good solution that also doesn't go against the rules or what would be realistic in a real game of hockey.
I also don't think anyone can just dangle and snipe with ease. It takes skill to pull these moves off. Yes, the controls might not be terribly difficult but knowing when to use them is just as important. If someone can use a well-placed windmill deke or toe drag to get by defenders, that's because they read the positioning of the defender and knew this move would be a good way to get around them. Defense needs to realize they are open to being beat by these moves and better position themselves to stop it. Part of success on either end of the ice is reading the play and using hockey sense and anticipation to determine what action you take. No matter how easy offense might be, it all can be stopped by good defense.
I don't want defense to be easier, I like that its challenging and takes a bit of concentration. I think the only change I would like to see is no penalty for pivoting without the puck. I think the offensive side of the puck should be a little more challenging. Puck protection and balance need a tweak.
You keep sayin blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging, thats irrelevant. It doesn't matter why it was added. The point is, when it was added it helped to combat ragging. I would argue if it was put back in the game ragging would decrease. It was taken out which allowed for ragging again, in turn providing an easy way to score and favouring offense.
When the LT pivot was nerfed it brought a little bit of balances to the game. Then the pivot was nerfed for players without the puck. This allowed almost every forward to blow by defenceman, again favouring offense. Now of course you can counter it. By being aware of your position, your gap, your speed and reading the play it possible. The issue IMO is the defenceman has to focus on all of this and be absolutely perfect, while the forward has to hustle in a straight line. That doesn't seem like balance to me.
They already fixed it. They added this feature, if you try to turn too sharp or constantly skating in circles you blow a tire and fall down....
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
If scoring was the only thing we cared about, there would be one mode with an open net that let you score at will. We care about defense and it's an integral part of the game. It's also a very challenging position to play and many are excellent at meeting that challenge. What would you suggest to make playing defense easier or more fun so that it matches what can be done on offense?
As far as ragging goes, blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging. It also wouldn't be a good solution as people can still easily pass before they go down. We're very well aware of the issue with ragging and if it were easy to stop, that would have been done by now. You guys can speculate on what you feel would fix this, but if it were that easy, it would have been done by now. Hopefully, we'll see a good solution that also doesn't go against the rules or what would be realistic in a real game of hockey.
I also don't think anyone can just dangle and snipe with ease. It takes skill to pull these moves off. Yes, the controls might not be terribly difficult but knowing when to use them is just as important. If someone can use a well-placed windmill deke or toe drag to get by defenders, that's because they read the positioning of the defender and knew this move would be a good way to get around them. Defense needs to realize they are open to being beat by these moves and better position themselves to stop it. Part of success on either end of the ice is reading the play and using hockey sense and anticipation to determine what action you take. No matter how easy offense might be, it all can be stopped by good defense.
I don't want defense to be easier, I like that its challenging and takes a bit of concentration. I think the only change I would like to see is no penalty for pivoting without the puck. I think the offensive side of the puck should be a little more challenging. Puck protection and balance need a tweak.
You keep sayin blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging, thats irrelevant. It doesn't matter why it was added. The point is, when it was added it helped to combat ragging. I would argue if it was put back in the game ragging would decrease. It was taken out which allowed for ragging again, in turn providing an easy way to score and favouring offense.
When the LT pivot was nerfed it brought a little bit of balances to the game. Then the pivot was nerfed for players without the puck. This allowed almost every forward to blow by defenceman, again favouring offense. Now of course you can counter it. By being aware of your position, your gap, your speed and reading the play it possible. The issue IMO is the defenceman has to focus on all of this and be absolutely perfect, while the forward has to hustle in a straight line. That doesn't seem like balance to me.
If a forward is hustling in a straight line, a defender needs to back up in a straight line in front of them. That doesn't sound like offense is being favored over defense. Yes, they have an arsenal of moves they can use. They also have to be good at pulling those off to beat a defender. By no means am I saying defense is easy. It's my primary position and the one I play 99% of the time. I'm a much better defender than forward so when I switch to forward I don't automatically think this is going to be a piece of cake because now I have all these moves I can do. A bad forward going up against a good defender is going to get beat most every time.
You can skate with the puck and your head down, if someone try to hit em', you get 2 min for checking to the head. No responsibility for the puck carrier.
When was the last time you saw a real-world team send every defensive zone pass from tape to tape? Yet you can do that in NHL 21.
Most decent NHL 21 players have pass completion rates up in the high 80s/low 90s because every pass is guaranteed to have the perfect amount of power, the puck doesn't flip up or slow down due to rough ice, and a 60-rated player can control the puck perfectly when receiving it from any angle and at any speed, before zipping off and reaching top speed with it within two seconds. After that, you know he isn't going to lose control of the puck unless he's hit or it's poked away. You'll never pass to a defender, put too much sauce on it, causing him to miscontrol it and have to hustle back to recover, giving the opponent time to pressure.
The only real way to combat ragging is to add more realism. By that, I mean adding ice effects beyond "fresh ice is faster" as well as removing the glue that keeps the puck on the stick, the laser pointer that guides every pass, and the guarantee that the receiving player will always, always, always be able to control any puck that is anywhere near his feet, even if it reaches him at 80mp/h. Increasing the effects of fatigue would assist with making things feel more realistic, too. Making it so that players can lose an edge if they're asked to do something that is outside of what their stats suggest they should be able to do would be good, also. Massive tank-like defenders shouldn't be able to get the puck, spin through 360 degrees four times, then play a perfect pass from coast-to-coast without at least having a slight chance that they fall down on their backside and turn the puck over.
The problem is that most people would absolutely hate all of those things because it would add some of the natural randomness of the actual sport to the game. They wouldn't be able to win just by getting the fastest players and running the exact same play over and over again until they have more goals than the opponent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6eCwE8oCIE
Replies
For example.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down.
For example.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down. [/quote]
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training
Yeah thats more or less what I mean.
Every person that play this game has he's own skill level to be a jurk. Everyone can hold the puck to their own team. Some better some worst.
And if you are both "good at this game and also a tool" chances are high he will do hes best to rag out the game. If you have the puck, there's no chance the opponent will score.
But I hate this side of the game and I hope it could be even harder to puck rag. At the same time, I dont want EA to take away the ability for me to keep the puck 'in a good/fair' way. I love to have puck possession and take long time before a see my chance to attack. But Im proud to say I never been a puck ragger.
For example.
Always a hot topic. And probebly always going to be a problem, you cant - really - force people to not being a tool. So it's a tough dilemma.
But there's definitely ways to play, that works better then other's, on how to chase them down. [/quote]
That actually kind of proves my point though; in that thread; the community manager stayed silent about ragging but did jump in to talk about face offs.
An acknowledgement of it and a shred of effort would be really nice.
It shouldn't have to be the community that comes up with fixes, but honestly, many of the times I get ragged, the person's profile has already been flagged by Xbox with the "Reputation: needs work" flag. I don't see why that can't be taken into effect for matchmaking. You wouldn't have to change actual in-game play at all. You know how there's a matchmaking filter for ping? Create another one for reputations and filter out profiles that have been flagged by Xbox.
Since Xbox has to actually review the feedback and apply the bad rep flag, this also protects against a scenario where people who lose legitimately may try to mess with someone's reputation; they can't, since Xbox manually reviews that.
It's just one idea and I'm sure there are many that are far better than that, but it would be nice to see EA take at least half a step towards trying to do something.[/quote]
I do not puck rag but I have seen it a lot. You have to remember this game itself is to be played how the players want to play. Puck ragging despite some peoples dislike of it is a tool used in the nhl this I have also seen countless times. As for it being oh ruining the game, well that is your game and you were already losing so yeah there is that. It is infact a strat to win, not everyone goes out of there way to destroy ahd demoralize opponents. It is also used across multiple platforms as a tool. In morphs it is called training the mobs. You cannot force people to play the way you want them to, they play how they wanted too. Back when mmos first came out from wow ddo lotro all were pushing content fast bone expected the monster train and they had to adapt to it. This hold true for this game also, you don't like puck ragging well you will have to adapt or simply quit games where you cannot handle it because they puck rag. This is an option given to you. I use it when I get distracted to a point I quit the games I am in. Imposing rules and jazz trying to dictate how people play wouldn't be a good idea. So let people play how they want to then they will sort it out them selves either get better or stop playing that game mode. Not like you have a lack of options. Just a FYI on ragging example a 6 hour raid was done in less than 15 miniutes in ddo and wow due to monster training ;)[/quote]
Puck ragging is not a strategy, it is an exploit.
This is a hockey video game. Puck ragging is doing something that in no way, shape, or form occurs in actual hockey, ever. No team on the planet has ever circled their own net once they're up by a goal. Desperate/insecure/low talent players use it in this game because they know that the way the gameplay mechanics are built, it is very time consuming and almost impossible to combat it with a proper forecheck. Yes it can possibly be done if you get lucky, but the time it takes runs out the clock, which is exactly what a ragger wants.
Saying that I have to adapt to an exploit or quit (and resign to taking a loss) if other players do it is completely unacceptable. In no sports game ever should players have to quit because their opponent is using an exploit. I respect your opinion but your comparisons to other games don't work, this is apples and oranges.
The point of this post, however, isn't to get everyone's opinions on puck ragging, that's been done before. It's to learn about what EA is doing to combat it.
I've been puck ragged by players before, googled their tags, and found that they're being advertised in EA's pro league stats. This is a serious concern to me; it shows that EA either isn't aware of how often this occurs, or they are aware and do not care because they consider that acceptable (I don't believe this would be the case and I sure hope it wouldn't). If EA knows this occurs and chooses to do nothing, that would at least be done closure, as players who want an online experience that is fair could just uninstall and part ways with the game going forward.
All I'm asking is for EA to acknowledge that it's an issue that has a massive negative impact on the entire community, and to state whether or not they're going to address it. Those are pretty quick and simple actions.
I do bealive if there was real human referee's and real human audience, this would not be a problem. But it's just you on one side of the world and your opponent on another side of the world, and everything is over a computer controlled 'engine'.
No mather how much we want it to be real, it's never gonna get there.
And again, what would be the best way to get a really good EA NHL player to stop holding on to the puck, as long as he can, everytime he gets the hold of the puck?.... I can't really say... There are some times I feel the A.I might be able to do a better job.. So it's easier to switch between players and continue to pressure. But other then that..?
But yes, it would be fun to hear how EA are thinking about this side of the game. How to fix it - without destroy anything else..
But to be clear and honest, on the skill level I 'choose' to play, I've never direct experience any puck raggers, I break them down pretty easy. But im sure if I played on a higher level, I would have much more problems to 'force' them to a turnover. Quick enough.
I have to disagree 110%. Like others have said, ragging is not a strategy. Regrouping in your zone is, but circling your net with no intent to attack is not. Its a cheap exploit that EA let's continue.
So thats something we dont want to have in a hockey game..? Sharp turns. That often creates room on the ice.
Thats my point, we can't just 'take away' common things that do happen IRL and then expect it to be hockey.
But I would like to see players that loose balance much more, and if that could help people to get thoose raggers, it's a win win.
But I also want to be able to skate in a circle and take sharp turns too without any risk to fall, if I do it right.
If this is true, it failed to have any impact
I didn't say we shouldn't have sharp turns, we should, but there has to be some kind of limit. If you managed your speed and turned sharp there was no issue, if you going full speed and turn sharp, there was a chance to blow a tire. That's a common thing that happens it real life, it was removed.
The point I'm trying to make is that it was already in the game and it worked. It was removed and ragging is back. They already had an effective tool to combat ragging.
It was removed from the game a few years ago. When it was in the game, it worked.
High speed and turned sharp should definitely be punished somehow.
What was the reason to why they removed it?.. Maybe went over to another game engine and things didn't work the same..?
I dont remember this, so it has to be before nhl15..
I think Aljo said people were falling and didn't understand why, or something along thoses lines. In my opinion, EA thinks the only exciting part of hockey is scoring so they make it easier, remove some things so everyone can dangle, snipe and cells with ease.
I don't remember what year it was, I hope it wasn't before 15, that would mean I'm almost as old as dirt lol
Okey thanks. But whole thing sounds strange, especially if it did fix puck rag, without taking away too much freedom on the ice.
Hehe Im afraid you might be old as dirt.. 😉🤗
If scoring was the only thing we cared about, there would be one mode with an open net that let you score at will. We care about defense and it's an integral part of the game. It's also a very challenging position to play and many are excellent at meeting that challenge. What would you suggest to make playing defense easier or more fun so that it matches what can be done on offense?
As far as ragging goes, blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging. It also wouldn't be a good solution as people can still easily pass before they go down. We're very well aware of the issue with ragging and if it were easy to stop, that would have been done by now. You guys can speculate on what you feel would fix this, but if it were that easy, it would have been done by now. Hopefully, we'll see a good solution that also doesn't go against the rules or what would be realistic in a real game of hockey.
I also don't think anyone can just dangle and snipe with ease. It takes skill to pull these moves off. Yes, the controls might not be terribly difficult but knowing when to use them is just as important. If someone can use a well-placed windmill deke or toe drag to get by defenders, that's because they read the positioning of the defender and knew this move would be a good way to get around them. Defense needs to realize they are open to being beat by these moves and better position themselves to stop it. Part of success on either end of the ice is reading the play and using hockey sense and anticipation to determine what action you take. No matter how easy offense might be, it all can be stopped by good defense.
I don't want defense to be easier, I like that its challenging and takes a bit of concentration. I think the only change I would like to see is no penalty for pivoting without the puck. I think the offensive side of the puck should be a little more challenging. Puck protection and balance need a tweak.
You keep sayin blowing a tire wasn't added to combat ragging, thats irrelevant. It doesn't matter why it was added. The point is, when it was added it helped to combat ragging. I would argue if it was put back in the game ragging would decrease. It was taken out which allowed for ragging again, in turn providing an easy way to score and favouring offense.
When the LT pivot was nerfed it brought a little bit of balances to the game. Then the pivot was nerfed for players without the puck. This allowed almost every forward to blow by defenceman, again favouring offense. Now of course you can counter it. By being aware of your position, your gap, your speed and reading the play it possible. The issue IMO is the defenceman has to focus on all of this and be absolutely perfect, while the forward has to hustle in a straight line. That doesn't seem like balance to me.
If a forward is hustling in a straight line, a defender needs to back up in a straight line in front of them. That doesn't sound like offense is being favored over defense. Yes, they have an arsenal of moves they can use. They also have to be good at pulling those off to beat a defender. By no means am I saying defense is easy. It's my primary position and the one I play 99% of the time. I'm a much better defender than forward so when I switch to forward I don't automatically think this is going to be a piece of cake because now I have all these moves I can do. A bad forward going up against a good defender is going to get beat most every time.
You can skate with the puck and your head down, if someone try to hit em', you get 2 min for checking to the head. No responsibility for the puck carrier.
😏
Most decent NHL 21 players have pass completion rates up in the high 80s/low 90s because every pass is guaranteed to have the perfect amount of power, the puck doesn't flip up or slow down due to rough ice, and a 60-rated player can control the puck perfectly when receiving it from any angle and at any speed, before zipping off and reaching top speed with it within two seconds. After that, you know he isn't going to lose control of the puck unless he's hit or it's poked away. You'll never pass to a defender, put too much sauce on it, causing him to miscontrol it and have to hustle back to recover, giving the opponent time to pressure.
The only real way to combat ragging is to add more realism. By that, I mean adding ice effects beyond "fresh ice is faster" as well as removing the glue that keeps the puck on the stick, the laser pointer that guides every pass, and the guarantee that the receiving player will always, always, always be able to control any puck that is anywhere near his feet, even if it reaches him at 80mp/h. Increasing the effects of fatigue would assist with making things feel more realistic, too. Making it so that players can lose an edge if they're asked to do something that is outside of what their stats suggest they should be able to do would be good, also. Massive tank-like defenders shouldn't be able to get the puck, spin through 360 degrees four times, then play a perfect pass from coast-to-coast without at least having a slight chance that they fall down on their backside and turn the puck over.
The problem is that most people would absolutely hate all of those things because it would add some of the natural randomness of the actual sport to the game. They wouldn't be able to win just by getting the fastest players and running the exact same play over and over again until they have more goals than the opponent.