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Looks like Frostbite is coming to NHL 22

Replies

  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    With Frostbite becoming a reality there is hope for a PC release in a couple years.

    If they don't allow cross-play will it even matter?

    I think it would matter to the hardcore PC crowd who've refused to adopt a console but still love the game of hockey.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    With Frostbite becoming a reality there is hope for a PC release in a couple years.

    If they don't allow cross-play will it even matter?

    I mean the real question is how many would buy the game on PC. I mean that is clearly up in the air. The only reason I own a console is because of the NHL series. If they made the game to PC I would imagine quite a few would make a move over there.

    But yes cross-play should be a thing also and it's not even that hard of a thing to work with but they draw it out because it's not a priority.

  • Sega82mega
    3052 posts Member
    edited February 26
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    With Frostbite becoming a reality there is hope for a PC release in a couple years.

    If they don't allow cross-play will it even matter?

    I think it would matter to the hardcore PC crowd who've refused to adopt a console but still love the game of hockey.

    Fair enough
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    With Frostbite becoming a reality there is hope for a PC release in a couple years.

    If they don't allow cross-play will it even matter?

    I mean the real question is how many would buy the game on PC. I mean that is clearly up in the air. The only reason I own a console is because of the NHL series. If they made the game to PC I would imagine quite a few would make a move over there.

    But yes cross-play should be a thing also and it's not even that hard of a thing to work with but they draw it out because it's not a priority.
    I guess this is the thing that worries me. Without crossplay the addition of another platform could easily further splinter the community.

    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega
    3052 posts Member
    edited February 26
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Thats a very wisley choose to do. Hold this gen out before they try to switch. That way the 'change' maybe dosent feel so big, cause you already got 'high' expectations' of a diffrent hockey game.

    Dosent mather how small team EA hockey are, the one thing mather is the people. (but of course frostbite is more 'complicated', it's probebly more complicated - and - better.)

    And with 21 they really show me they know what they doing, there's just some 'tiny' things left'.

    And with the push of both next gen aaaand frostbite... Expect errors... (absolutely).. But even with the 'unknown errors', wouldn’t we all want a change from old boring ignite.. Is anyone happy with how things are now ..? 🙄
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Thats a very wisley choose to do. Hold this gen out before they try to switch. That way the 'change' maybe dosent feel so big, cause you already got 'high' expectations' of a diffrent hockey game.

    Dosent mather how small team EA hockey are, the one thing mather is the people. (but of course frostbite is more 'complicated', it's probebly more complicated - and - better.)

    And with 21 they really show me they know what they doing, there's just some 'tiny' things left'.

    And with the push of both next gen aaaand frostbite... Expect errors... (absolutely).. But even with the 'unknown errors', wouldn’t we all want a change from old boring ignite.. Is anyone happy with how things are now ..? 🙄

    Let's also remember they aren't just jumping into Frostbite who knows how long they have been working on it so it isn't a complete mess.

  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Thats a very wisley choose to do. Hold this gen out before they try to switch. That way the 'change' maybe dosent feel so big, cause you already got 'high' expectations' of a diffrent hockey game.

    Dosent mather how small team EA hockey are, the one thing mather is the people. (but of course frostbite is more 'complicated', it's probebly more complicated - and - better.)

    And with 21 they really show me they know what they doing, there's just some 'tiny' things left'.

    And with the push of both next gen aaaand frostbite... Expect errors... (absolutely).. But even with the 'unknown errors', wouldn’t we all want a change from old boring ignite.. Is anyone happy with how things are now ..? 🙄

    Ok, some corrections for both of you.

    IceLion- I think I remember you saying you hadn't been on the forums for a long while. While I agree with most of your concerns with the transition the team had mentioned here that they beefed up the team and started preparing for the change to next gen far earlier this time. However...

    Sega82mega- EA didn't go to a "more complicated" frostbite engine because it was "better". You won't find that word out there by those have used it, they use much less flattering language. Its also notoriously more difficult with sports games specifically. EA wanted frostbite to avoid licensing fees for other engines and wanted their teams all working on the same engine.
  • jrago73 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Thats a very wisley choose to do. Hold this gen out before they try to switch. That way the 'change' maybe dosent feel so big, cause you already got 'high' expectations' of a diffrent hockey game.

    Dosent mather how small team EA hockey are, the one thing mather is the people. (but of course frostbite is more 'complicated', it's probebly more complicated - and - better.)

    And with 21 they really show me they know what they doing, there's just some 'tiny' things left'.

    And with the push of both next gen aaaand frostbite... Expect errors... (absolutely).. But even with the 'unknown errors', wouldn’t we all want a change from old boring ignite.. Is anyone happy with how things are now ..? 🙄

    Ok, some corrections for both of you.

    IceLion- I think I remember you saying you hadn't been on the forums for a long while. While I agree with most of your concerns with the transition the team had mentioned here that they beefed up the team and started preparing for the change to next gen far earlier this time. However...

    Sega82mega- EA didn't go to a "more complicated" frostbite engine because it was "better". You won't find that word out there by those have used it, they use much less flattering language. Its also notoriously more difficult with sports games specifically. EA wanted frostbite to avoid licensing fees for other engines and wanted their teams all working on the same engine.

    But they gotta take input from each other. Hopefully errors Fifa did back 17' with the same engine, is knowledge the EA team of developers share with each other as 'colleagues' but from diffrent department of the 'EA family'.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    So tired of this old 'engine', im so desperate that I even looking forward to see some new bugs.. Im ready for whatever frostbite will bring.

    😬✊

    The Frostbite 3 engine is actually basically the same age as the Ignite Engine. Though I imagine the feature set has been incrementally changed without a formal release. I have to think a new major release of Frostbite is imminent.

    Yeah I like that difference I saw between ignite vs frostbite in Fifa, if it's close to that in NHL, im happy.

    And then also with the boost from the next generations 'engine'. Ahh.. Throw in a 4k tv too.... And I think im good to go!

    Regarding the gameplay.. Thats hard to say.. Just beacuse it dosent seem to work out for other's sport games (?) to use frostbite says NHL gonna fail. Diffrent sports, maybe will be perfect match between hockey and frostbite.

    But yeah yeah. . I know.. Im having hard time to hold back. 😊

    Your optimism is admirable, but I fear misplaced.

    FIFA is EA's top title and they basically threw all the resources at it. They even pulled developers from other teams, even the few at BioWare with Frostbite experience - RIP Anthem - to work on it... and it still isnt great technically.

    I swear I am going to try to not be a doomsayer and belabour this too much but look at these articles:

    https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ea-frostbite-engine-history-bioware-ea-sports
    "Despite the two key sports titles making the move, not every EA Sports franchise has switched over. NBA Live 19 and NHL 19 still use Ignite, while EA Sports UFC 3 uses the all-new RPM Tech engine. NHL's steadfast hold against Frostbite has been noticeable to the community, and according to the developers, that's because they don't want to lose features in the transition to the new engine.

    "Really, we have so much invested in what's built in Ignite. And right now we feel that we don't really want to go into a transition year where... well, in our last transition year, a lot sort of had to be left on the cutting room floor, right? We didn't deliver to our fans expectations and so right now we've got a critical mass of different modes where people are investing in them, they're playing them. They want Threes. It runs in the current engine. We built our customization in it and so, right now, we're trying to deliver to more fans expectations. I'm not sure that transitioning to Frostbite right away would actually deliver what our fans expect," explained NHL 19 creative director William Ho to USG"

    https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
    ""Using Frostbite to build an online-only action game, which BioWare had never done before, led to a host of new problems for BioWare’s designers, artists, and programmers. “Frostbite is like an in-house engine with all the problems that entails—it’s poorly documented, hacked together, and so on—with all the problems of an externally sourced engine,” said one former BioWare employee. “Nobody you actually work with designed it, so you don’t know why this thing works the way it does, why this is named the way it is.”
    Even today, BioWare developers say Frostbite can make their jobs exponentially more difficult. Building new iterations on levels and mechanics can be challenging due to sluggish tools, while bugs that should take a few minutes to squash might require days of back-and-forth conversations. “If it takes you a week to make a little bug fix, it discourages people from fixing bugs,” said one person who worked on Anthem. “If you can hack around it, you hack around it, as opposed to fixing it properly.” Said a second: “I would say the biggest problem I had with Frostbite was how many steps you needed to do something basic. With another engine I could do something myself, maybe with a designer. Here it’s a complicated thing.”

    “It’s hard enough to make a game,” said a third BioWare developer. “It’s really hard to make a game where you have to fight your own tool set all the time.”
    When a BioWare engineer had questions or wanted to report bugs, they’d usually have to talk to EA’s central Frostbite team, a group of support staff that worked with all of the publisher’s studios. Within EA, it was common for studios to battle for resources like the Frostbite team’s time, and BioWare would usually lose those battles. After all, role-playing games brought in a fraction of the revenue of a FIFA or a Battlefront. “The amount of support you’d get at EA on Frostbite is based on how much money your studio’s game is going to make,” said one developer. All of BioWare’s best-laid technological plans could go awry if they weren’t getting the help they expected.

    The NHL team is infamously small compared to others plus NHL has historically seemed to be the proverbial red-headed step child of the EA Sports lineup. There will need to be a huge re-allocation of resources and a big shift in corporate culture/focus to get NHL into FrostBite without it being an unmitigated disaster.

    The silver lining here is that *IF* they are indeed making NHL the focus this year for FrostBite games they could potentially pull some serious resources to work on it and get it done.

    I am hoping for the best but am prepared for the worst. This could *easily* end up worse than the debacle of NHL15 or be the best NHL in several years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Thats a very wisley choose to do. Hold this gen out before they try to switch. That way the 'change' maybe dosent feel so big, cause you already got 'high' expectations' of a diffrent hockey game.

    Dosent mather how small team EA hockey are, the one thing mather is the people. (but of course frostbite is more 'complicated', it's probebly more complicated - and - better.)

    And with 21 they really show me they know what they doing, there's just some 'tiny' things left'.

    And with the push of both next gen aaaand frostbite... Expect errors... (absolutely).. But even with the 'unknown errors', wouldn’t we all want a change from old boring ignite.. Is anyone happy with how things are now ..? 🙄

    Let's also remember they aren't just jumping into Frostbite who knows how long they have been working on it so it isn't a complete mess.

    Exactly, good point. I actually think it's really good of EA NHL to have patience with this.

    Remember they was pretty early with the announcment of this, that next gen will have to wait. My guess is they known this for a pretty long time.

    And it's not like I 'wont' get excited about this type of news... 'this is what it's all about'... Next stop in to the future.. On good aaaand bad.. 😄
  • https://www.gamedesigning.org/engines/frostbite/

    Maybe someone find it interesting to read.

    I especially liked.... "FrostBite isn’t only about blowing stuff up, though. It prides itself on realistic animation, fluid visuals, and in-depth, detailed game worlds."

    .. That part. Imagine if that will work perfectly fine in 22...🤤

    But I understand everyone thats worried too.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    https://www.gamedesigning.org/engines/frostbite/

    Maybe someone find it interesting to read.

    I especially liked.... "FrostBite isn’t only about blowing stuff up, though. It prides itself on realistic animation, fluid visuals, and in-depth, detailed game worlds."

    .. That part. Imagine if that will work perfectly fine in 22...🤤

    But I understand everyone thats worried too.

    But all that doesn't really do the same as say the physics engine.

  • Sega82mega
    3052 posts Member
    edited February 27
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    https://www.gamedesigning.org/engines/frostbite/

    Maybe someone find it interesting to read.

    I especially liked.... "FrostBite isn’t only about blowing stuff up, though. It prides itself on realistic animation, fluid visuals, and in-depth, detailed game worlds."

    .. That part. Imagine if that will work perfectly fine in 22...🤤

    But I understand everyone thats worried too.

    But all that doesn't really do the same as say the physics engine.

    Nah but realistic animation for example should mean a more fluid gameplay, and that in turn, better conditions for everything.

    But ammm... Just guessing here... But im really excited about this, cause either if it's good or bad. 22 will probebly be the year with the biggest difference, in every aspect, from any previous release.

    And that itself, is a good reason to feel something extra for this game.

    This will probebly mean we will see big improvements from the crowd and settings before the game.

    Can’t wait for more information, but thats probebly some months away..

    (and the EA studio has probebly never had this much time, to work with the game, before a realese)

    But I dont want to turn everyone's expectations up high... Hehe, but that shouldnt be a problem huh?.. 🙄😊
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    https://www.gamedesigning.org/engines/frostbite/

    Maybe someone find it interesting to read.

    I especially liked.... "FrostBite isn’t only about blowing stuff up, though. It prides itself on realistic animation, fluid visuals, and in-depth, detailed game worlds."

    .. That part. Imagine if that will work perfectly fine in 22...🤤

    But I understand everyone thats worried too.

    But all that doesn't really do the same as say the physics engine.

    Nah but realistic animation for example should mean a more fluid gameplay, and that in turn, better conditions for everything.

    But ammm... Just guessing here... But im really excited about this, cause either if it's good or bad. 22 will probebly be the year with the biggest difference, in every aspect, from any previous release.

    And that itself, is a good reason to feel something extra for this game.

    This will probebly mean we will see big improvements from the crowd and settings before the game.

    Can’t wait for more information, but thats probebly some months away..

    (and the EA studio has probebly never had this much time, to work with the game, before a realese)

    But I dont want to turn everyone's expectations up high... Hehe, but that shouldnt be a problem huh?.. 🙄😊

    They changed the shot timing so it lined up with the animation. They did this so we didn't get the super awkward and janky looking shots. Gameplay has suffered since the change in my opinion. We used to be able to adjust our aim up until it made contact with our stick, now as soon as the pass is thrown to you, it locks in your aim at that moment.
  • https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-fifa-17-vs-fifa-16-engine-tech-comparison

    Another pretty interesting article. *long read*..

    But I think we can expect a whole nother deep, to lets say BAP mode.

    And maybe they add some completely new modes.

    Online Franchise. Yes please.

    But okey, im gonna chill now for awhile.

    Good evning ya all! 😊
  • This is very nice news. I have been saying for a couple of weeks now - I have moderate expectations for NHL 22. If it disappoints me, I won't be buying games for a while.

    NHL 22, with it migrating to Xbox Series X, is a fantastic chance for NHL to reboot the series and bring back something good. I want to see the AI mostly reworked.
  • Sega82mega
    3052 posts Member
    edited February 28
    This is very nice news. I have been saying for a couple of weeks now - I have moderate expectations for NHL 22. If it disappoints me, I won't be buying games for a while.

    NHL 22, with it migrating to Xbox Series X, is a fantastic chance for NHL to reboot the series and bring back something good. I want to see the AI mostly reworked.

    I think alot of people argues like you. NHL 22 will probebly be a new sales record.

    Mainly because, new frostbite engine and the move to next gen.

    Just this 2 things will by certain mean were going to get something 'completely diffrent', something we havent had in a very long time. And alot of people will be curious to see whats it all about.

    But if the people will like it and continue further to 23, thats another question.

    Hopefully 22 feels pretty good from the beginning, so it's not going to be like 15 - 21, were I first feel the game started to be ready/good in NHL 19-21...

    Importen to be ready, from scratch, EA! 😏✊
  • untouchable_BF1
    1103 posts Member
    edited February 28
    Due to the 15 attempted cover-up, the legends marketing fiasco, the same scripted plays from NHL 09 still be used by the computer, and the speed glitch/feature they deny exists, I’m going to have to put a migration year game expectation level at about as low as possible. Wish I could be optimistic lol.
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