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IceLion68
1624 posts Member
edited May 2021
New EASHL goalie wannabe here - been practicing to play goalie since , well, I drop in with other clubs and we often get random and terrible goalies.

Any advice or tips for newcomers to the position?

I watched the between the pipes stuff and it was helpful but feels incomplete.

Q: How do I avoid getting sniped form the high slot. I have success defending these by coming out to a bit above the top of the crease but that seems *really* far out?

Is there another way?

Also, Post hug is out apparently? It does seem VERY slow to come off the post when you move. To the point that it needs to be fixed I think... real goalies are not slow at all doing this. I have been butterflying with my leg to the outside of the post instead which seems to work OK. Is there another tip for this?

Looking for any and all online resources. YouTube came up a little short which surprised me.
Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
Post edited by EA_Blueberry on

Replies

  • Follisimo
    1346 posts Member
    edited May 2021
    Let's go with one of the Gamechangers videos if you haven't found them already. Should be all his goalie videos. Should show all his others to the right and pick what you may want to see.



    PS> This one is very important... Goalie attributes and what they actually do and mean. This is something that should literally be explained in the game by the developers to people but isn't for whatever reason.
    NHL 21 What's the best goalie build? (Part 1: Attributes)
  • kyl_35
    184 posts Member
    Two 10 minute videos and I still have no idea what the consistency attribute is best.
  • kyl_35 wrote: »
    Two 10 minute videos and I still have no idea what the consistency attribute is best.

    0 is the best, it’s been confirmed in these forums somewhere long ago.
  • kyl_35
    184 posts Member
    Thank you!
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    Tryed all day but never figured it out.. How do you do that? 🤔

  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Let's go with one of the Gamechangers videos if you haven't found them already. Should be all his goalie videos. Should show all his others to the right and pick what you may want to see.
    I actually mentioned that I watched the between the pipes stuff. All the relevant ones for 21 at least, including the two videos you posted. I feel like he covers the attributes and stuff pretty well - though he says it basically all amounts to "it doesnt really matter".

    There are a few decent videos but I still feel like there is something missing.. I dunno... I will say that despite where he says to be in the crease to avoid getting sniped, in goalie training I need to go out to just past the top of the crease to avoid getting sniped.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • I’m waiting for the day user goalies can start moving faster on their feet than a 1st year goalie. The t-push thing is a great idea in theory, but I think it needs more assistance to it. It’s just not very useable atm. The shuffles are comparable to a grandpa rather than a goalie which is also lame. This leads to goalies just sitting deep and sliding into every save.

    I’ve played goalie for most of my life, this game doesn’t give a remote feel of the position imo. Depth is rarely thought about, bad angle shots are rarely though about, screens don’t really matter, momentum/telescoping doesn’t matter, it’s pretty shallow.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    I’m waiting for the day user goalies can start moving faster on their feet than a 1st year goalie. The t-push thing is a great idea in theory, but I think it needs more assistance to it. It’s just not very useable atm. The shuffles are comparable to a grandpa rather than a goalie which is also lame. This leads to goalies just sitting deep and sliding into every save.

    I’ve played goalie for most of my life, this game doesn’t give a remote feel of the position imo. Depth is rarely thought about, bad angle shots are rarely though about, screens don’t really matter, momentum/telescoping doesn’t matter, it’s pretty shallow.

    I would settle for hugging the post being a usable mechanic. As it stands it is WAY too slow to come onto and off of the post for it to be usable/. Even JonLOL says this. He recommends against it.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    I’m waiting for the day user goalies can start moving faster on their feet than a 1st year goalie. The t-push thing is a great idea in theory, but I think it needs more assistance to it. It’s just not very useable atm. The shuffles are comparable to a grandpa rather than a goalie which is also lame. This leads to goalies just sitting deep and sliding into every save.

    I’ve played goalie for most of my life, this game doesn’t give a remote feel of the position imo. Depth is rarely thought about, bad angle shots are rarely though about, screens don’t really matter, momentum/telescoping doesn’t matter, it’s pretty shallow.

    I would settle for hugging the post being a usable mechanic. As it stands it is WAY too slow to come onto and off of the post for it to be usable/. Even JonLOL says this. He recommends against it.

    Yeah the post mechanic is really clunky. RVH and VH movements should be seamless, that’s kind of the entire point of them being used IRL lol. The glued effect is so frustrating. Forwards can whip around to their 180 at will but goalies can’t do routine post-play movements.
  • Janikka
    45 posts Member
    edited May 2021
    Your questions concern two of the main aspects that I was struggling with as a goalie in NHL 21. I've gotten better at them though so I feel like I can give you some pointers.

    First of all, I saw the video about the attributes and accepted the conclusion that they only have a negligible impact on your ability to make saves. That is until someone told me to try the glove high trait. Now, the guy who makes those videos has more experience in net than I do and is very likely to be the better goalie, so I don't want to step on his toes or anything. I'm just convinced that this trait has made a very meaningful difference for me when it comes to stopping those snipes. It's possible that I'm just imagining the effect as I haven't tested it methodically. I suggest you give said trait a try though because my feeling is that the difference is fairly substantial with my goalie catching a lot more of those shots with the glove.

    Beware that the glove high trait lowers the five-hole attribute which (and this is also based on my subjective feeling) makes you slightly more vulnerable to getting beat between the legs. As well as using the five-hole trait to offset this, you will need to compensate with mindful use of butterfly which seals that area quite well. At the same time, reacting to shots is much slower in butterfly and you're more vulnerable to shots up high when in butterfly anyway, so you want to strike the very delicate balance between using it as little as possible but going down whenever needed. In situations where you're not sure, I would favor staying on your skates. You'll get the feel for it as you play.

    You may notice that most snipes, at least by decent shooters, are aimed at the glove side. This is because you're more prone to getting sniped there in NHL 21. There is this spot where the save animation will let shots through from below the glove. You may want to favor that side in your positioning a bit for these shots to make up for this vulnerability. Be careful not to favor it too much though since then you'll just leave the blocker side open. I find that the glove high trait allows you to be more square to the shot instead of needing to overemphasize the glove side in your positioning as much.

    Also, moving into the snipe often helps a lot. When you read that the opponent is going to take the shot, just move directly up at the puck. Be careful though as it's easy to accidentally move the wrong way diagonally as even a little bit of movement in the wrong direction will often allow the shot to go in. You also make yourself vulnerable to a one-timer if you misread the play and the opponent makes a pass instead. Reading the play correctly and good timing are key.

    With regard to hugging the post, you're right that it's not advisable in NHL 21. It's just too slow to come off of when the opponent makes a quick pass. That said, due to reasons I explained earlier, I wouldn't usually do what you're currently doing. I would only go into butterfly if: 1. I expect a shot into the five-hole from up close, 2. I'm taking away a deflection shot, or 3. I'm doing a butterfly slide for whatever reason (such as stopping a wraparound attempt or quickly moving into a one-timer from a sharp angle). You want to just stay on your skates without actually hugging the post. When you're absolutely certain that the opponent is going to shoot short side, you can hold the left stick in that direction just before the shot to move well past the post. If you're just covering short side and the puck carrier may either shoot or do something else, there's a kind of optimal position where you need to stand at the post. It's slightly dependent on your goalie's stance, but generally speaking, your skate should touch the post and maybe go ever so slightly past it. If you're standing too far though you will sometimes get burned by the save animation. That will not happen if you stand further still, but then it's just unnecessary and you may not get to one-timers.

    With all that said, try not to feel too bad about getting sniped and whatnot from time to time. I know you want to stop every shot and sometimes you'll feel like a scrub for allowing a goal that you thought was fairly easy to prevent, but it happens to everyone in NHL 21 sometimes. This is the most challenging year for goalies thus far and you're working against some rather finicky mechanics. Sometimes you can even do everything right and still allow a goal. Learn what you can from every goal, but when there's nothing you should have done differently, just chalk it up to randomness and move on with your focus fixed on the bigger picture. Oh, and blame your defense. Good luck.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited May 2021
    Janikka wrote: »
    Your questions concern two of the main aspects that I was struggling with as a goalie in NHL 21. I've gotten better at them though so I feel like I can give you some pointers.

    Hey man thank you so much for your input! This has been super valuable.

    Interesting about the attributes. I have the 5 hole attribute on but I forget what the other one is. I will change it to glove high (if it isnt already) and try that out. How do you use the depth in your crease on potential snipes from the high slot or outside the hash marks?

    I will also try staying on my feet more on the post work. I *have*noticed that slides while in the butterfly are a bit "touchy".

    Regarding controls:

    I have a very odd custom control scheme with my Elite 2 controller that I use for playing goalie so I will try to use the generic/default controls when describing this - do you use the precision modifier much? I find that generally that the delay introduced by the skate pivot animation before the actual T-push makes it practically useless unless the puck carrier is quite far out. I generally use the butterfly slide stick when I need fast lateral movement. Does this seem "right"?

    I should say that my observations have mostly come from time spent in practice mode: Because I did not want to subject other players to my learning curve though while I was getting a feel for things I have spent a LOT of time in goalie practice mode. I have probably faced a couple thousand shot attempts in several different scenarios - mostly Rush (sometimes Offense) scenarios with 5 on 5, 5 on 4, 5 on 3, 3 on 2 and 2 on 1. In this mode of course my build attributes are not a factor as I am using a roster player. Is there a better way to practice?

    I have only played 3 drop in games so far. Been on the winning side in all 3 but mostly *despite* my performance rather than *because* of it LOL. I got lucky with the teams I was paired with. I think my save % is somewhere in the mid .700's . A lot of the GA have come from either misreading a play (my fault) or the twitchy controls sending me in the wrong direction (or too far in the right direction). I have noticed this in practice mode as well. I am not sure if it is me, my controller settings or the game but I sometimes see my goalie moving in a direction I swear I did not send him in. Is this a real thing or am I imagining things?


    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Janikka
    45 posts Member
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Hey man thank you so much for your input! This has been super valuable.

    Interesting about the attributes. I have the 5 hole attribute on but I forget what the other one is. I will change it to glove high (if it isnt already) and try that out. How do you use the depth in your crease on potential snipes from the high slot or outside the hash marks?

    I will also try staying on my feet more on the post work. I *have*noticed that slides while in the butterfly are a bit "touchy".

    Regarding controls:

    I have a very odd custom control scheme with my Elite 2 controller that I use for playing goalie so I will try to use the generic/default controls when describing this - do you use the precision modifier much? I find that generally that the delay introduced by the skate pivot animation before the actual T-push makes it practically useless unless the puck carrier is quite far out. I generally use the butterfly slide stick when I need fast lateral movement. Does this seem "right"?

    I should say that my observations have mostly come from time spent in practice mode: Because I did not want to subject other players to my learning curve though while I was getting a feel for things I have spent a LOT of time in goalie practice mode.  I have probably faced a couple thousand shot attempts in several different scenarios - mostly Rush (sometimes Offense) scenarios with 5 on 5, 5 on 4, 5 on 3, 3 on 2 and 2 on 1.  In this mode of course my build attributes are not a factor as I am using a roster player. Is there a better way to practice?

    I have only played 3 drop in games so far. Been on the winning side in all 3 but mostly *despite* my performance rather than *because* of it LOL. I got lucky with the teams I was paired with. I think my save % is somewhere in the mid .700's . A lot of the GA have come from either misreading a play (my fault) or the twitchy controls sending me in the wrong direction (or too far in the right direction). I have noticed this in practice mode as well. I am not sure if it is me, my controller settings or the game but I sometimes see my goalie moving in a direction I swear I did not send him in. Is this a real thing or am I imagining things?

    Positioning for potential snipes is highly situational. It depends on where the puck carrier is and what other options he has. If he has the opportunity for a snipe, I'll typically come out to somewhere between the edge and the halfway point of the crease. This still leaves me with a decent chance of reacting to a pass. If I feel certain that a snipe is coming, I will hold left stick toward the puck right before the opponent shoots, so when he's aiming the shot and is about to launch the puck.

    Note that once a shot is taken, you lose control of your goalie. Your goalie might still move after that point before the puck gets to you, but that is always automatic movement based on what you initiated before the shot. Personally, this is my biggest gripe with the goalie mechanics in the game. Even if you have enough time to react, you cannot make any adjustments once a shot is taken.

    Don't use the T pushes at all. It's been broken since it was introduced because the animations don't mesh properly. Just enable precision movement by default so you don't need to hold the precision movement button all the time. If you're too used to holding the button, you can keep the settings as they are but remember not to let go of that button unless you're in butterfly where it doesn't matter.

    Precision movement is quick enough because you have the butterfly slide and even the right stick for when you need to move fast.

    Speaking of butterfly slides, I am not referring to the right stick although that is admittedly a butterfly slide too. I'm talking about initiating the direction with the left stick and then pulling the right trigger (which of course is what butterfly is mapped to in the default settings) while still holding the left stick in that direction. This covers slightly less distance to make a save but is more controlled.

    I use the right stick extremely rarely. My typical use of the right stick is when I need to recover for a save while in butterfly. Some goalies who are better than me do use it more often than I do so you should see what works for you, but I find it to be an unnecessary overcommitment when the LS+RT (or LS+R2 as I'm on the PlayStation) is adequate in most of those situations.

    Also, here's a tip that I learned by just experimenting with the controls. Whenever you initiate a butterfly slide, it triggers this animation that you seem to commit to. However, if you keep the right trigger held and then tap left stick in the opposite direction of the slide, you will stop dead in your tracks. This is good to get a handle on for better control of your movements.

    I would advise against practicing versus the AI. Human players are so different in what they might attempt that you may be learning bad habits when it comes to your muscle memory and taking it online. One potential upside could be that the AI players have this superhuman ability to detect when your positioning is even slightly off so you'll know if they beat you because you made some tiny error in your positioning. Still, it's just so different playing against humans that I think it's best to practice online and deal with the fact that you may anger some players despite trying your best.

    As for the last issue you mentioned, unless your controller is somehow broken I do think your goalie is just finishing animations that you've initiated. I've never had my goalie move in the opposite direction of my actual input. What you're experiencing is likely down to the slight delay from controller input to the goalie actually moving as well as the goalie having to finish those animations that you've initiated. Again, the ability to cancel these animations and come to a halt with the technique I explained can be helpful. Just remember that it's completely out of your hands once a shot is taken.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    Janikka wrote: »
    Just enable precision movement by default so you don't need to hold the precision movement button all the time.

    I should have mentioned that this is what I have done and when I referred to using the precision trigger/modifier I was coming OUT of precision mode.
    Janikka wrote: »

    Thanks again for the tips and feedback. I may try to bribe some people into going into team practice mode.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    Last night I had a .800 game (16 saves on 20 shots) win!!!

    I unfortunately followed it up with a low .700s loss also but while I let in a couple that probably should not have gone in I also made several difficult saves. My team overall was pretty terrible, I think we scored one goal and I faced quite a few odd man rushes/breakaways; so while I wished I had played some shots better, I feel the stats do not bear out how I played.

    Trying to remember to stay standing when the puck goes behind the goal line is still counter intuitive, so I am still fighting that urge with mixed results. A big thing tho is maintaining concentration. It's crazy how much more mental focus it takes to play goalie.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited May 2021
    Just for fun I will share my wacky elite 2 controller config for goalie. I will try to get screenshots of the controller app but for now a text description.

    Here are the default controls:
    yqang3s8ijco.png
    hnihorkdk67b.png


    Realizing that positioning and movement was key, I wanted to simplify movement as much as possible and to give myself as much control as possible.

    1. Swap Sticks: So the first thing I did was swap the sticks: this put the goalie movement stick to the RIGHT stick - my real-world dominant hand - so that I had better movement control. The goal then was to make the right hand do most of the movement "stuff" an my left hand would be in charge of "other things"...
    2. Swap Triggers: This had the effect of moving butterfly to LT and precision movement to RT. With precision movement set to default always on, Right Stick was precision movement. RT + RS was the normal or larger goalie movement
    3. Map RB to Shift function and set the shift functions of the sticks to be back to their normal mappings. Bear with me this is the weird part. So the normal setting has the sticks swapped but when I hold RB the sticks go back to normal. This means:
      - RS = precision movement
      - RT + RS = normal (larger) movement
      - RB + RS = butterfly slide (even larger movement)
    4. Map upper right paddle to B: With the sticks swapped this made it a contortionist act to do a pad stack. It would be RS + B which now the same thumb essentially doing both things. Mapping upper right paddle to B means pad stack is now RS + Upper Right Paddle
    5. Similarly, with stick swap flying poke check is now RS + Y, another double thumb impossibility, so I mapped Y to the Lower Right paddle. Flying Poke = RS + Lower Right Paddle
    So with all that my right stick is the king of movement, and the left stick is reserved for thing s like the spread eagle or the poke check

    I lowered the stick sensitivity to help with not moving too much and I set the the radial movement to True Diagonals which I *think* is helping with the controller not doing a spread eagle when I am trying to butterfly slide L or R.

    One thing I have yet to do is adjust the actual physical stick tension on the RS. Not sure if I will go THAT far just yet.

    So to summarize:
    Right hand: all goalie body positioning movements
    Left Hand: poke check, spread eagle, butterfly
    Post edited by IceLion68 on
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    Struggling with consistency and realizing that your team makes HUGE difference.

    First game: 9-2 Loss. Bad team.I forget how many shots, 020-something but I think my save % was probably around .600. First goal was a snipe I probably should have had but didn't expect from as far out as it came and I was slow to react and didn't have my angle/depth quite correct. Second was just a fluke, I saved it but then my goalie did an animation that launched the puck into the air and it ended up behind me :/ I am unsure what exactly happened but the play by play play indicated that my own player put it in. I didn't look at the replay but *maybe* it was a reaction to my own player whacking at the rebound?. Team got worse as the game went on: lots of penalties and odd man rushes. Towards the end I started to lose focus and composure and while made some good saves, my fatigue and frustration resulted in a couple extra that probably should not have gone in.


    Second game: 5-2 Win. Good team. 21 saves on 23 shots. .910 save %. Shots were 23-8 I believe. I wish all games could be like this.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited May 2021
    I am also watching the Between the Pipes "Goalie Doctor" videos which are immensely helpful. JonLOL analyzes user game footage sent in to him for critique.

    Post edited by IceLion68 on
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member


    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    Last night only got in one game: 13 saves on 16 shots for .810 save %. 3rd goal was dumb mistake on my part - I was distracted in party chat and not focusing. My team was pretty good and the opposing goalie was not - it was a bit of a blowout. I didn't face too many difficult shots so I am not counting this win as bragging rights too much.

    For those who play the position: what is the difference beween playing goalie in 6s vs 4s. On the negative I know there would be more breakaways (plus penalty shots) but also things might be simpler as the plays and pass choices you face would be more limited. Thoughts?
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • NHL3286
    1 posts New member
    Distracted in party chat indeed IceLoins
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