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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Bring Back attributes!!!

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Replies

  • The easiest fix is to eliminate the "grind," and just give every played the XP points right from the start. Exactly how it was with the last gen expect no legend 3 climb. Everyone wins. Build the player you want, and some schmuck who plays 10 games a year will be in the same boat as someone who plays 100 games a year.

    You're right and I meant to add this into my post to begin with but got carried away with the details of my other points lol.
  • The idiots who say the game is balanced because of the fixed player classes are biggest morons on the earth. The attribute build and the fixed classes have nothing to do with it and I still see just as many non-competitive games as there was in years past. Some of the people my friends and I play against could have a team off 99s and us 60s and we still would kick the **** out of them. Its all about the ranking system Im playing now my team is all prestige and the other team only has one guy who pretiged.
  • IceLion68
    496 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Hrshy49 wrote: »
    The **** who say the game is balanced because of the fixed player classes are biggest morons on the earth. The attribute build and the fixed classes have nothing to do with it and I still see just as many non-competitive games as there was in years past. Some of the people my friends and I play against could have a team off 99s and us 60s and we still would kick the **** out of them. Its all about the ranking system Im playing now my team is all prestige and the other team only has one guy who pretiged.

    Thanks for calling me a moron. Incidentally you realize the ranking system is a product of skill AND time spent right? A person could be a 99 if they play a LOT but arent very good. Its like other games that have ranks - just cause someone has a higher rank than me doesn't mean they are the better player. Sheesh why is this so difficult for people.

    Edit: Also your example does not in any way negate player classes from being an equalizer: try harder next time.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Please bring back the attributes for the love of all that is holy bring them back, now I say that with some reservations of course as mentioned earlier inot prior posts they need to cap certain builds cause if anyone knows the real game of hockey they know that BIG Z will never be anywhere as fast as the likes of Crosby,Ovi, Grabner that said if you make a 6'9" guy then your speed has a cap on it, now people will say that's what we have now with the classes balance and yes while I agree with that to some extent the fun of EASHL has lost all fun NHL13 was by far the best EASHL ever period, and no I was not a chronic player that played 25 games a day and when we stopped playing my guy was around 80ish and not OP was balanced for two way play but as stated attributes need to be put back in to add the drive and fun of putting points into what I want with the understanding that ok certain players have caps on certain stats based on height weight and other real restrictions this vanilla EASHL is mostly who gets lucky and is not skill based at all not saying with attributes it is skill based but without the ability to have options to build as I wish the EASHL is just boring and thiers not much to play for at the end of the day.
  • I was, at first a big proponent of the cookie cutter build system they introduced last year. I thought it would make it a more level field...but it did so to the point where the games aren't fun anymore. Not because we don't dummy teams(we still do), but because every game is the EXACT SAME in terms of flow: There is none.
    Bringing back the attribute system, giving us full control of our player "development" is what made EASHL such a unique thing. It was true to life in the sense that everyone had their strengths and weaknesses. I play a powerforward style game in real life...but I stand only 5'11''. Why cant I make my player in my own image? Games felt a lot more competitive. I feel that if they bring this back, the community will grow again..
    #makeEASHLfunagain
    "Tell me all about it Ted, every detail, dot every comma"- Tug Benson
  • trw1987 wrote: »
    I was, at first a big proponent of the cookie cutter build system they introduced last year. I thought it would make it a more level field...but it did so to the point where the games aren't fun anymore. Not because we don't dummy teams(we still do), but because every game is the EXACT SAME in terms of flow: There is none.
    Bringing back the attribute system, giving us full control of our player "development" is what made EASHL such a unique thing. It was true to life in the sense that everyone had their strengths and weaknesses. I play a powerforward style game in real life...but I stand only 5'11''. Why cant I make my player in my own image? Games felt a lot more competitive. I feel that if they bring this back, the community will grow again..
    #makeEASHLfunagain

    This x1000, I was in the preset build camp but the more I've played (or should I say the less I've played compared to past years) I've gone completely back to the other side. I want the old system back. I put NHL 14 in and played around in EASHL create a player practice and couldn't believe how fast and fluid it felt when compared to 17. NHL 17 games feel so slow, with the same outcomes; start with 6, goalie quitting after a few goals, a few rage quitters after, ai either goes god mode or **** mode, game ends up being close or a blowout, more rage quitters. See why should I even play if I already know what's going to happen!
  • Yes, But not like progression, maybe add a custom build with set amout of attribute points, so, we could have the build which suits more to our style of playing, and bc these set classes are extremely boring.

    Nhl14 roughly 2500 eashl games (4 accounts)
    nhl17 just now reached 200 with my main account...
  • I was also in favor of the cookie cutter system. I felt like a lot of players abused the Card upgrade, boost slot system. It ended up being entire teams full of 6'9" 250lb players that skated like Toews, shot like Gaborik and hit like Chara. Or entire teams full of 5'9" 140 lb mighty mouse speedsters that were uncheckable and could pass through any cluster of traffic or good defense and hit one-timers from any angle with dead-eye accuracy. After playing NHL 17 I have mixed feelings. Pluses - I think the addition of the stick lift tie up by holding down the A button was an excellent and crucial addition. Now you can tie up players on the back door when you know they are going for an obvious one timer. And you can tie up players in front of the crease when the Goalie is struggling with a rebound, preventing the opposing team from poke check goals. Using the L button to block shots works much better with the side knee bend animation as opposed to the bend over at the waist. Minuses - They nerfed the speed so every skater has the same speed. The old game used to heavily favor the smaller skill players that could skate fast, pass and shoot. With the addition of the stick lift tie up, the kneeling block and the nerfed speed the game now heavily favors goons who skate around and hit with wreckless abandon. There is no upside to playing as a smaller skill player now. As a Sniper, Playmaker, or Dangler an Enforcer (or Power Forward or Grinder) can cush you with hits at any time anywhere on the ice simply by skating into you and not hitting the right stick. Most of the time when I play as a Dangler the opposing player chooses Enforcer and crushes me over and over (even though I am no where near the puck) just by running into me with the Left stick until my Player gets hurt and plays like dog turds the rest of the game. No penalty is called unless I get hurt with the puck. In the previous versions I accepted this as a "necessary" evil because skill players were favored more and there was no other way to defense them except big hits. But now that they have addressed those issues by nerfing speed and providing more ways to defend I feel like injuring smaller players that way is just an exploit. I would like to see EA bring back the customizable attribute system. But I don't think just being able to adjust attributes is not going to be enough to maintain realistic balanced players. After playing Madden17 Franchise mode I was completely impressed with the new attribute/intangible progression system. Intangibles add a whole new dynamic to progressing players, and makes them a lot more balanced and realistic. The Madden system is really not that far off from Be-a-Pro XP system with the addition of Intangibles. For instance for a WR in Madden you can spend your XP to upgrade athletic ability like route running or speed or catch. Or you can buy Intangibles like Aggressive Catch so your WR goes up and fights for 50/50 jump balls against DB's or Possession Catch where your receiver catches the ball and instantly drops to the ground to avoid the big hit from safeties. There is also a Penalty Intangible, young players out of college start out undisciplined (they take a lot of penalties, usually at the very worst time like after a big gain.) You can spend XP on athletic ability or upgrade the Penalty Intangible from Undisciplined to Balanced (they take penalties at a normal rate) and then again to Disciplined (they rarely take penalties). I would love to see something like that using customizable players in EASHL coupled with cookie cutter builds for players who don't have as much time to customize. For instance you could have a Long Range Bomber Intangible for Defensemen and Power Forwards. You would start out at Shaky ( Your player whiffs alot or completely misses the net with one timers) then upgrade to Balanced (Your player rarely whiffs, but misses the net completely here and there) then to Dependable (Your player doesn't whiff and rarely misses the net) and then max it out at Long Ranger (Your player hits the net with deadly accuracy on One timers). Snipers would have Wicked Wrister, Danglers Dirty Dangler, Playmakers X-ray vision ect, ect.
  • Bring back paragraphs!
  • I was also in favor of the cookie cutter system. I felt like a lot of players abused the Card upgrade, boost slot system. It ended up being entire teams full of 6'9" 250lb players that skated like Toews, shot like Gaborik and hit like Chara. Or entire teams full of 5'9" 140 lb mighty mouse speedsters that were uncheckable and could pass through any cluster of traffic or good defense and hit one-timers from any angle with dead-eye accuracy. After playing NHL 17 I have mixed feelings. Pluses - I think the addition of the stick lift tie up by holding down the A button was an excellent and crucial addition. Now you can tie up players on the back door when you know they are going for an obvious one timer. And you can tie up players in front of the crease when the Goalie is struggling with a rebound, preventing the opposing team from poke check goals. Using the L button to block shots works much better with the side knee bend animation as opposed to the bend over at the waist. Minuses - They nerfed the speed so every skater has the same speed. The old game used to heavily favor the smaller skill players that could skate fast, pass and shoot. With the addition of the stick lift tie up, the kneeling block and the nerfed speed the game now heavily favors goons who skate around and hit with wreckless abandon. There is no upside to playing as a smaller skill player now. As a Sniper, Playmaker, or Dangler an Enforcer (or Power Forward or Grinder) can cush you with hits at any time anywhere on the ice simply by skating into you and not hitting the right stick. Most of the time when I play as a Dangler the opposing player chooses Enforcer and crushes me over and over (even though I am no where near the puck) just by running into me with the Left stick until my Player gets hurt and plays like dog turds the rest of the game. No penalty is called unless I get hurt with the puck. In the previous versions I accepted this as a "necessary" evil because skill players were favored more and there was no other way to defense them except big hits. But now that they have addressed those issues by nerfing speed and providing more ways to defend I feel like injuring smaller players that way is just an exploit. I would like to see EA bring back the customizable attribute system. But I don't think just being able to adjust attributes is not going to be enough to maintain realistic balanced players. After playing Madden17 Franchise mode I was completely impressed with the new attribute/intangible progression system. Intangibles add a whole new dynamic to progressing players, and makes them a lot more balanced and realistic. The Madden system is really not that far off from Be-a-Pro XP system with the addition of Intangibles. For instance for a WR in Madden you can spend your XP to upgrade athletic ability like route running or speed or catch. Or you can buy Intangibles like Aggressive Catch so your WR goes up and fights for 50/50 jump balls against DB's or Possession Catch where your receiver catches the ball and instantly drops to the ground to avoid the big hit from safeties. There is also a Penalty Intangible, young players out of college start out undisciplined (they take a lot of penalties, usually at the very worst time like after a big gain.) You can spend XP on athletic ability or upgrade the Penalty Intangible from Undisciplined to Balanced (they take penalties at a normal rate) and then again to Disciplined (they rarely take penalties). I would love to see something like that using customizable players in EASHL coupled with cookie cutter builds for players who don't have as much time to customize. For instance you could have a Long Range Bomber Intangible for Defensemen and Power Forwards. You would start out at Shaky ( Your player whiffs alot or completely misses the net with one timers) then upgrade to Balanced (Your player rarely whiffs, but misses the net completely here and there) then to Dependable (Your player doesn't whiff and rarely misses the net) and then max it out at Long Ranger (Your player hits the net with deadly accuracy on One timers). Snipers would have Wicked Wrister, Danglers Dirty Dangler, Playmakers X-ray vision ect, ect.


    To me that sounds very similar to the card system? How would you get XP to buy/level up the intangibles? You'd have to play more games and play well, correct? I wouldn't be opposed to something like that but wouldn't that be the same as having to grind to get points to add to the attributes? Someone who gets the game on release and plays all the time would have much more XP points then someone who gets the game 2 months later and only plays a couple games a day. You'd still be in the same position, unless you mean there is a different way you get XP?

    There's been a lot of good ideas and this idea might not be bad either. I personally think all of them have been better than this "cookie cutter" build system they have now. I wouldn't even be opposed to getting the same amount of points for everyone and putting them however you want with caps on certain attributes for certain builds..etc: sniper can't go above 80 hitting, Enforcer can't have a wrist shot about 75, Power forwards speed can't go above 85.. things like that, with maybe some skate, glove, helmet unlocks for certain things that would boost you(if they brought them back).

    Also, need to bring back height and weight.. having everyone the same size and speed is nuts to me. Everyone complains they want the game to be more authentic and yet you have everyone, minus the super skater CPU dmen that catch you on breakaways, the same speed. Nothing authentic about that.
  • Ap2k1982 wrote: »
    Please bring back the attributes for the love of all that is holy bring them back, now I say that with some reservations of course as mentioned earlier inot prior posts they need to cap certain builds cause if anyone knows the real game of hockey they know that BIG Z will never be anywhere as fast as the likes of Crosby,Ovi, Grabner that said if you make a 6'9" guy then your speed has a cap on it, now people will say that's what we have now with the classes balance and yes while I agree with that to some extent the fun of EASHL has lost all fun NHL13 was by far the best EASHL ever period, and no I was not a chronic player that played 25 games a day and when we stopped playing my guy was around 80ish and not OP was balanced for two way play but as stated attributes need to be put back in to add the drive and fun of putting points into what I want with the understanding that ok certain players have caps on certain stats based on height weight and other real restrictions this vanilla EASHL is mostly who gets lucky and is not skill based at all not saying with attributes it is skill based but without the ability to have options to build as I wish the EASHL is just boring and thiers not much to play for at the end of the day.

    This was the longest sentence I have ever seen.
  • booher04 wrote: »


    To me that sounds very similar to the card system? How would you get XP to buy/level up the intangibles? You'd have to play more games and play well, correct? I wouldn't be opposed to something like that but wouldn't that be the same as having to grind to get points to add to the attributes? Someone who gets the game on release and plays all the time would have much more XP points then someone who gets the game 2 months later and only plays a couple games a day. You'd still be in the same position, unless you mean there is a different way you get XP?

    There's been a lot of good ideas and this idea might not be bad either. I personally think all of them have been better than this "cookie cutter" build system they have now. I wouldn't even be opposed to getting the same amount of points for everyone and putting them however you want with caps on certain attributes for certain builds..etc: sniper can't go above 80 hitting, Enforcer can't have a wrist shot about 75, Power forwards speed can't go above 85.. things like that, with maybe some skate, glove, helmet unlocks for certain things that would boost you(if they brought them back).

    Also, need to bring back height and weight.. having everyone the same size and speed is nuts to me. Everyone complains they want the game to be more authentic and yet you have everyone, minus the super skater CPU dmen that catch you on breakaways, the same speed. Nothing authentic about that.

    XP and Leveling up

    I agree that it would be very similar to the card system. I actually really enjoyed how the card system gave EASHL a good bit of replay value. What I didn't like was the lopsided builds that eventually came to fruition once a player unlocked the legend card and boost slots. The way you would earn XP would be the same way you earn it in offline Be-a-Pro. Dekes, Passes to the slot, Good shots on goal, set up passes, breakout passes, checks, poke checks, takeaways, defensive recoveries ect. ect. The difference would be instead of the points being automatically assigned to specific categories (Deke XP only increases deke rating ect. ect.) any XP earned would be available to use to purchase athletic or intangible upgrades. For example in Madden if a player has an outstanding game he may earn around 1000 xp which then can be used to upgrade the player.
    (Example)
    Athletic Category-->(rating)-->XP Upgrade cost-->(per point increase)
    Speed-->(92)-->20,000 xp
    Agility-->(90)-->18,539 xp
    Route Running-->(60)-->489xp
    Catch-->(68)-->704xp

    Intangible Category-->(Intangible Level)-->XP Upgrade cost
    Penalties-->(Undisciplined)-->2,000xp
    Possession Catch-->(No)-->2,000xp
    Aggressive Catch-->(No)-->2,000xp

    In my example I could use my 1000xp gained to "buy" a 1 (or 2) point increase in Route Running to 61(or 62). Or I could use my 1000 xp to "buy" a 1 point increase in Catch to 69. Speed and Agility tend to be "baked" into a player based on player type, height and weight. Thus Speed and Agility are extremely expensive making it more cost effective to upgrade other athletic areas or intangibles (Yet not impossible if you really want to do that). Intangibles are moderately expensive and tend to take more than one game of saving up XP to upgrade.

    Career Cycles

    The problem an XP system will eventually run into is some players can play 180-200 games a month while others may only get 15-20 games in a month. The problem I see is the players that are playing thousands of games will eventually be able to max out their character with all the intangibles and 99 in every athletic category not good for competitive balance or realistic game play. in order to mitigate this I believe you would have to institute some sort of career cycle. EASHL club seasons are 10 games, so I would make 10 games equal one season for a character. Season 0 (1st season) the character would start out rated low like rookie card players with no intangibles. Season 0 through Season 5 would be the "growth phase" for the character, athletic upgrades will be cheap and intangibles would be moderately expensive. Season 6 through Season 10 would be the "prime phase" for the character, athletic upgrades would be more moderately expensive and intangibles would become more expensive also. The character would be able to maintain athletic upgrades and intangibles after each season 0 through 10. Season 11 through season 15 would be the "crafty veteran phase", athletic and intangibles would be about the same XP price as the prime phase. The character would start to regress athletically after each season 11 through season 15. (For example might lose 1 point in each category of speed, agility, balance, checking at the end of each season). Season 16 and beyond would be the "twilight of career phase", athletic and intangibles would become very expensive. The character would regress athletically and intangibly at the end of each season. At a certain point you will want to "retire" your character and start a new one (Say 20 seasons on average).

    Legacy Points and Replay value

    If a player is going to spend all kinds of time building and maintaining a character through a 20 year career they are going to need some kind of incentive to "retire" said character and start over. That is where Legacy points come into play. I would convert the current Prestige system into what they call on Madden Legacy points. Unlocking badges in the Prestige system would be worth a certain amount of Legacy points. Winning division titles, League titles, and Playoff titles would be worth a larger amount of Legacy Points. Being the single season Franchise record holder in Goals, Assists, +/-, Takeaways, Hits, or Defensive Recoveries would be worth Legacy points. Being the All time Franchise record holder in Goals, Assists, +/-, Takeaways, Hits, or Defensive Recoveries when you retire your character would be worth an even larger amount of Legacy points. If you are able to reach a certain level of Legacy points when you retire your character the players Jersey number will be retired also. And then you will be able to add retired Jerseys to your ring of honor by hanging the Jersey in the rafters next to any championship banners. To me this will add replay value by giving you a mark to shoot for with your new character by trying to become the Franchise All Time greatest player. A mark that either you or one of your teammates have set. Or just try to be good enough to get back into the ring of honor. I think it will also give some players the incentive to play with their character a little further into the twilight of their career in order to try to get into the ring of honor or become the Franchise All Time greatest player.

    Salary Cap and Team balancing

    Players would be given a Cap rating based on overall athletic rating plus intangibles. In Madden the scale ranges from 0-50 with an overall team Cap at 850 points. With a Madden roster of 39 players that translates to roughly 21 Cap points per player. This makes for some tough decision making since you can not fill your entire roster with players whom have a 50 cap rating at every position and still be under the 850 point Cap. With 6 players on an EASHL club that would put the Cap somewhere around 130. It would force teams to have players at different stages of their career instead of everyone being in their prime all at once. That would probably be pretty tough to accomplish unless you were able to have multiple characters at once ala Call of Duty with 5 different custom builds. So you could mix and match with different teammates.

    Cookie Cutter builds

    In the end I do recognize that there are players who do not want to grind through 20 seasons as a single character. In that case there needs to be some "cookie cutter builds". These players would not be adjustable and would not earn XP. They should probably be patterned after the "Crafty Veteran Phase". The cookie cutters would not earn Legacy points and would be unaffected at the end of each season. They could however be used to balance your team and get them under the Cap with different cookie cutter builds with lower Cap ratings.
  • booher04 wrote: »
    I was also in favor of the cookie cutter system. I felt like a lot of players abused the Card upgrade, boost slot system. It ended up being entire teams full of 6'9" 250lb players that skated like Toews, shot like Gaborik and hit like Chara. Or entire teams full of 5'9" 140 lb mighty mouse speedsters that were uncheckable and could pass through any cluster of traffic or good defense and hit one-timers from any angle with dead-eye accuracy. After playing NHL 17 I have mixed feelings. Pluses - I think the addition of the stick lift tie up by holding down the A button was an excellent and crucial addition. Now you can tie up players on the back door when you know they are going for an obvious one timer. And you can tie up players in front of the crease when the Goalie is struggling with a rebound, preventing the opposing team from poke check goals. Using the L button to block shots works much better with the side knee bend animation as opposed to the bend over at the waist. Minuses - They nerfed the speed so every skater has the same speed. The old game used to heavily favor the smaller skill players that could skate fast, pass and shoot. With the addition of the stick lift tie up, the kneeling block and the nerfed speed the game now heavily favors goons who skate around and hit with wreckless abandon. There is no upside to playing as a smaller skill player now. As a Sniper, Playmaker, or Dangler an Enforcer (or Power Forward or Grinder) can cush you with hits at any time anywhere on the ice simply by skating into you and not hitting the right stick. Most of the time when I play as a Dangler the opposing player chooses Enforcer and crushes me over and over (even though I am no where near the puck) just by running into me with the Left stick until my Player gets hurt and plays like dog turds the rest of the game. No penalty is called unless I get hurt with the puck. In the previous versions I accepted this as a "necessary" evil because skill players were favored more and there was no other way to defense them except big hits. But now that they have addressed those issues by nerfing speed and providing more ways to defend I feel like injuring smaller players that way is just an exploit. I would like to see EA bring back the customizable attribute system. But I don't think just being able to adjust attributes is not going to be enough to maintain realistic balanced players. After playing Madden17 Franchise mode I was completely impressed with the new attribute/intangible progression system. Intangibles add a whole new dynamic to progressing players, and makes them a lot more balanced and realistic. The Madden system is really not that far off from Be-a-Pro XP system with the addition of Intangibles. For instance for a WR in Madden you can spend your XP to upgrade athletic ability like route running or speed or catch. Or you can buy Intangibles like Aggressive Catch so your WR goes up and fights for 50/50 jump balls against DB's or Possession Catch where your receiver catches the ball and instantly drops to the ground to avoid the big hit from safeties. There is also a Penalty Intangible, young players out of college start out undisciplined (they take a lot of penalties, usually at the very worst time like after a big gain.) You can spend XP on athletic ability or upgrade the Penalty Intangible from Undisciplined to Balanced (they take penalties at a normal rate) and then again to Disciplined (they rarely take penalties). I would love to see something like that using customizable players in EASHL coupled with cookie cutter builds for players who don't have as much time to customize. For instance you could have a Long Range Bomber Intangible for Defensemen and Power Forwards. You would start out at Shaky ( Your player whiffs alot or completely misses the net with one timers) then upgrade to Balanced (Your player rarely whiffs, but misses the net completely here and there) then to Dependable (Your player doesn't whiff and rarely misses the net) and then max it out at Long Ranger (Your player hits the net with deadly accuracy on One timers). Snipers would have Wicked Wrister, Danglers Dirty Dangler, Playmakers X-ray vision ect, ect.


    To me that sounds very similar to the card system? How would you get XP to buy/level up the intangibles? You'd have to play more games and play well, correct? I wouldn't be opposed to something like that but wouldn't that be the same as having to grind to get points to add to the attributes? Someone who gets the game on release and plays all the time would have much more XP points then someone who gets the game 2 months later and only plays a couple games a day. You'd still be in the same position, unless you mean there is a different way you get XP?

    There's been a lot of good ideas and this idea might not be bad either. I personally think all of them have been better than this "cookie cutter" build system they have now. I wouldn't even be opposed to getting the same amount of points for everyone and putting them however you want with caps on certain attributes for certain builds..etc: sniper can't go above 80 hitting, Enforcer can't have a wrist shot about 75, Power forwards speed can't go above 85.. things like that, with maybe some skate, glove, helmet unlocks for certain things that would boost you(if they brought them back).

    Also, need to bring back height and weight.. having everyone the same size and speed is nuts to me. Everyone complains they want the game to be more authentic and yet you have everyone, minus the super skater CPU dmen that catch you on breakaways, the same speed. Nothing authentic about that.

    Then get the game when it comes out and don't complain if your not as high as level as a guy when you buy the game 4 months later or get it as a xmas gift. NHL for 3 years now has catered to the new players and eashl club play now has no one playing because of class builds are garbage. My club has not played in 3 weeks and we only dropped from 810 overall rank to 1115 on leader boards. 4 years ago if we did that and not play for 3 weeks we would have dropped all the way down into 4000 most likely. Why so few spots now? Because no one plays anymore because it has no replay value. I could care less if my club unlocks stadium upgrades that doesn't help your skater ability. Great your gave me a new hairstyle that's under my helmet.


    I'm assuming you are talking in general. I get the game at launch and I've been complaining about the cookie cutter builds and no replay value since launch lol. I understand the gripes of people who dont have as much time as others to play but that really isn't peoples faults who do have more time. The unlocking hairstyles was pretty comical and just so because of the point you made.. it's under the helmet 95% of the time. lol
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