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True Performance Skating

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  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    I'd really just love if they took the time to develop vision control so that it functions properly and consistently. Even if it required a second modifier where L2 is backskate and L1 is vision control. Vision control should simply be a button that will rotate your skater to face the puck, and allow you to skate in relation to it. Precision skating needs to be completely redone so that lateral movements become more fluid and so that we can do them in transition instead which is what vision control is for. This change would greatly improve how the game is played on the defensive side of the puck.

    Also somehow low speed skating needs to be better. The stops and starts need to be more efficient, and low speed turning without the puck could be buffed a little bit as well.

    SO what makes you think EA hasnt calibrated the skating speed, pivots, acceleration etc to really life speed ?

    As for the lateral movements, I think I remember EA saying, this is a very tough mechanic to deal with from a controller stand point.

    But at the same time, lets give EA some credit, this game has improved the lateral movements and controller inputs together to make this game more responsive when adjusting front to back and side to side especially on the defensive side.

    There are plenty of movements that are easily able to perform in real life, yet the animations available are only a fraction of that. If you're standing still and intercept a pass that someone tried to force across the front of the net, it takes far longer to establish body and stick positioning to protect the puck, leading to tons of incidental contact and players dropping the puck because they can't escape.

    I'm not saying this is easy for EA to do or that things aren't better this year, but it's just not good yet. EA needs to know that there is still work to be done on this, and that it's a major source of frustration in the game today. It makes defense difficult because you need to focus on the player with the puck, where the man you're trying to cover is, and then also how your player is skating and where he is facing. If you lose track of any one of those, you're giving the other team an opening, and it makes containing a talented forward difficult as a result because you will inevitably make a mistake by losing position while attempting to face the puck or something like that.

    I know nobody likes to really hear it, but the reason that people liked the pre-TPS skating was because you always felt like you had complete control. You didn't need to worry about how to contain a forward without letting him get you caught in a bad pivot, or predicting when there was going to be a loose puck so you could have your "seamless" puck pickup start you out with some speed in the direction you're trying to go. I'm not saying they should scrap TPS, but they should really be attempting to replicate that level of control while maintaining the great things that TPS added like momentum, hitting, and cuts.
  • nickywop is absolutely right. would love to hear a dev's response to this. control (or lack thereof) of my skater is my #1 gripe with this game and has been since TPS was introduced.
  • nickywop is absolutely right. would love to hear a dev's response to this. control (or lack thereof) of my skater is my #1 gripe with this game and has been since TPS was introduced.

    I agree. It would be great for a dev to finally chime in on this and give us some insight to their thoughts on all the feedback about TPS.
  • The devs have chimed in on this. We've had pretty thorough discussion on the old forums. It sucks the thread was deleted with all of the others, but this thread is basically just a reminder that this topic isn't dead and even though they made SLIGHT improvements in the skating, the control isn't there. Nicky echoes a lot of why that is. Real hockey is right around the corner. All you have to do is watch a fraction of a game and you can see how disgustingly dissimilar the body positioning and skating decisions real players make versus what we're allowed to do in game. Of course this isn't something that would take the devs a weekend to fix, but the point I want to establish with this thread is that I want them to make some actual changes. First of which should be a button to face the puck even as its moving and then skate in relation to it. That should help establish some control over rotational movement. Then they could use the fact that we can control our facing and open up the left stick as far as pivots and rotation because right now you can feel the game trying to face you where it thinks you should be at times without you having to do anything at all. Precision skating wouldn't have to be a seperate thing it would just be incorporated while holding vision control as long as your speed allows you to move at those angles.
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    You can actually find a lot of the old posts if you search for "ea nhl forum "tps is a problem and needs to change" site:forum.ea.com" in Google. They cached most of the conversation it seems, and you can click the little green arrow right under the links to view the cached page. For example, here's one of the pages of the conversation

    Also, to save what EA had to say on that very same page:
    All of you have good ideas and good points and that is actually the main issue I was trying to address in explaining where we are currently at, what we are trying to solve and mentioning the inputs we currently get from the Player to determine it all.

    You are all correct that there are many things you can do on ice. You can stand in a spot and jump up and down, you can do triple axel's, you can try and run, and you can definitely t push and strafe.

    Obviously some are more ridiculous than others for us to incorporate once you put on the filter that it is only important to put in what is used in traditional professional hockey experience (so that means barrel jumping and triple axels are out)

    When it comes to t-pushes and strafes, you do see those things in an NHL hockey game. Not at as high of a percentage as the core skating we have in game but it is done in pp/pk situations, moments when you need to move small distances when defending or trying to get open in front of the net, etc.

    So then comes controls. We could dedicate a button purely to precision skating and we thought of what that would mean last year but there wasn't enough justification at the time to move other controls around for something that isn't used often or for long periods of time.

    It is a bit exaggerated to say that you would need to tap 60 times to get across the ice because if you need to travel that far, you would most likely be skating there.

    That is why we elected for taps on defense since we felt you would use actual strafes at a stand still when you only really wanted to move over a shoulder width or two. If you wanted to move more, you would skate forwards or backwards and stop and re-square up.

    On offense, you can hold L1, to continually t-push along the blueline or scenarios like that (we added it as an alternate control for people that didn't want to tap) but you do need to be at a stop first. It didn't feel like too much of a problem since overall, it felt you would use it behind the net on a setup/PP scenario or out at the blueline. Any other times you could use forward and backward skating depending on which way you were travelling to keep your forehand to the net.

    On offense away form the puck, you can hold Vision control and tap from a stand still to move a lane over for a deflection or something, or you can hold back on the right stick to get ready for a one timer/redirect and in that state it is essentially locked to precision skating if you move your left stick around.

    Other than that, I understand that in those states some of you don't like the way the skating looks/works but you can't really compare to NHL 10 in that regard because NHL 10 felt better and easier because it defied physics much more. As a video game, it gave more control but it went too far in that direction. We have taken the feedback that people want precision to feel better and will look at the animations, blends, responsiveness, etc. like we do any feature to see where we can improve.

    All that said, we will still explore a way to get into precision easier for people in more scenarios. However, even if we dedicate a button/find a way to do that, we still need to think of the transition from faster skating to slower skating. When in precision, do we just force you to ramp down quickly, decelerating to the speed at which you can start strafing or do we keep regular skating, even when in precision until the Player gets themselves down below that speed threshold, and then just not let them go above it until they get out of precision? Those are the other things we need to think of even if we can commit to a control scheme that allows for it and doesn't compromise anything else (dekes, pass block, saucer pass, etc.)
  • Smike57
    97 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up while gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an above-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a small adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly thought year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.





    Post edited by Smike57 on
  • I feel the exact same way. And unfortunately if there aren't some real attempts at changing TPS to be consistent and allow us to be in control of our player for next year's game, then I'm most likely passing on it.
  • HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up hile gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an aboveo-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a smal adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly though year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.





    Agree 110%. Excellent post!!
  • HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up while gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an above-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a small adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly thought year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.






    No your right NA3HL isnt a high level of hockey, never heard of it. Considering I got paid, played in front of thousands of fans, and played with current NHLers I think Im someone who actually played the game and at NHL speed, so wouldnt it be fair to say Im someone who knows alittle bit more, then most ?


    As for the dippsy doddle dont get me wrong, I cant stand that type of play, the swing left, swing right/ protect puck is something that really needs to be toned down/ non existent and a players puck control when doing this really needs to be toned down big time. I dont argue that at all. But your straight away speed, pivots acceleration etc are pretty accurate, to say the TPS needs an overall is kinda backward thinking. How then would the skating engine evolve ? (which it has every year, getting better)

    Now with a players tie up ability and poke check, the game has been given a patient defensemen the tools needed to capitalize.

    Take the example of going to the outdoor rink/shinny hockey. During these times players are able to do some pretty amazing moves, because their competition is at much different level, this game it can be easily said the same thing applies. As your competition margin widens your gonna see players try these aspects alot more. And I think people are frustrated more because the game has really required more defensive awareness to be successful which increase the margin, a bit more.



    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • lol smyth do you still look down at the controller to see what buttons your pressing? the skating has not improved every year. they took 14' and 15' off so the skating was exactly the same during that time. all we are asking for is more control over our player, which will benefit both offense and defense and make the game less of a battle with the controller.
  • mulsberry
    16 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    I said it before but here goes again. The game will never be good in this engine. Same problem dayz has.
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up while gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an above-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a small adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly thought year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.






    No your right NA3HL isnt a high level of hockey, never heard of it. Considering I got paid, played in front of thousands of fans, and played with current NHLers I think Im someone who actually played the game and at NHL speed, so wouldnt it be fair to say Im someone who knows alittle bit more, then most ?


    As for the dippsy doddle dont get me wrong, I cant stand that type of play, the swing left, swing right/ protect puck is something that really needs to be toned down/ non existent and a players puck control when doing this really needs to be toned down big time. I dont argue that at all. But your straight away speed, pivots acceleration etc are pretty accurate, to say the TPS needs an overall is kinda backward thinking. How then would the skating engine evolve ? (which it has every year, getting better)

    Now with a players tie up ability and poke check, the game has been given a patient defensemen the tools needed to capitalize.

    Take the example of going to the outdoor rink/shinny hockey. During these times players are able to do some pretty amazing moves, because their competition is at much different level, this game it can be easily said the same thing applies. As your competition margin widens your gonna see players try these aspects alot more. And I think people are frustrated more because the game has really required more defensive awareness to be successful which increase the margin, a bit more.



    It hasn't evolved lol. I'd argue it has regressed. You can't simply say "it's evolved" like it's a proven fact. What has changed, except for the fact that you can now do 360s twice as fast as 16? Broken vision control, wonky pivots, so you tell me, what has progressed!? You failed to address 99% of the points I made, proving that you barely read past the opening sentence, where you had to prove your knowledge of the game because you played in the EC or SPHL or CHL. Whatever you played, it doesn't make you all knowing. People have eyes, people study the game, people coach the game at high levels without playing there, and I know for a fact people that haven't played at your (unconfirmed) level, know the game better than you, because I see what you write in these forums day in and day out. Your hockey knowledge was probably one of the biggest things holding your unconfirmed career back, because I have literally agreed with <.0001% of your posts in the history of these forums.

    Now, for the video game part. Don't tell me about these "elite" players like you're one of them lol. I have played 6s against the literal best of the best (starting RD on the team that took 2nd last season) so I know all of these things. I'm not going to brag about my skill in a video game, but when someone as arrogant as you talks down to me, I have no choice but to validate my knowledge of the game. So, I know how to play against these tactics, but that doesn't make the problems non-existent. An NHL caliber defenseman with a good gap can skate well enough to keep up with a forward going wide. I've seen it a million times. A NHL caliber defensemen can face the play when he wants. A NHL caliber defensemen can stop and start with ease. The point of not being able to skate with someone had to do with the clunky pivoting, and the absolutely dreadful vision control. Not a defenseman skating backwards stride for stride with a forward going forwards. But you know what? Because you're so arrogant, that's how you read mine, and everyone's posts on these forums. You assume every single member of these forums played basketball growing up or something, because you seriously hold your own opinion in such high regard, that I have no idea how your head can even fit through doors. I mean, seriously! Can you read a post from someone on these forums without purposely reading it wrong, so you can use your hockey career to lecture someone about how insightful you are when it comes to hockey? Geez...

    Back to the point, the skating engine has taken zero strides forward in my eyes. Again, next-gen TPS is actually WORSE than old-gen TPS, because in the old-gen TPS, I could at least face the play 99% of the time I wanted. In 16/17, it's 85% at best. 85%...look at that number and tell me again, how the skating engine has even marginally improved in these last three years? It hasn't for defensemen. The miniscule differences you're noting are while you're playing forward. Defensively, the skating is 99% the same. Clunky, frustrating, and takes my focus off of the game I'm trying to play (again, these are all opinions. See how I don't proclaim it as a fact? That's how opinions work.) And for the last time, the Messiah has not risen. Stick tie-ups are not the BEST THING EVER FOR D OMGOMGOMGOM. When you play competitive 6s, so not division 9 clubs ridden with HUT players like yourself, these things are laughably useless. Even trying to take the time for this auto animation to kick in, would surely cost you a goal, because for 1-2 seconds, I have no control over my player.

    I don't know what it takes for you to understand how average you are at this game. I have no clue as to why you talk down to people, when you yourself are a nobody. It gets really tiresome trying to have good discussions in these forums, when we have an arrogant clown like yourself, who uses his glory days of semi-pro hockey as validation for his knowledge of the sport and the game. Your experience holds no merit when you constantly type up these poor at best arguments, and talk about your opinions like they are proven facts.

    Seriously mods, every single post this guy is involved in gets horribly dismantled. Can we please not allow this arrogance/ignorance/pure trolling to continue? We want discussions, we don't want "I played semi-pro hockey, so you all need to Git Gud. There's no stick lifts in hockey. I am THE literal NHL God, and everyone should bow down to me"

    Probably done with these forums as long as this guy is allowed to dismantle intelligent discussions with his arrogant babbling consequence free.

    Absolutely ridiculous...

    /rant
  • I wouldn't mind the skating too much if the vision control worked. I play a lot of D and when someone starts the back and forth twitch deking s*** I just stay in front of him and slow him down and my forwards back checking usually get him., vision control needs to be fixed, it hasn't improved since 2016, at all.
  • HipNotiiCx wrote: »



    Absolutely ridiculous...

    /rant

    Spent more time attacking then providing video evidence to add to the discussion. Comparing real NHL skating to NHL 17. Lets get some video of the issues your having, so we can break it down ? Isnt that the way to improve the game ? And so EA dev's are able to see what it is your having issues with ?

    As for how I feel the the skating engine has improved, the strafing side to side has improved tremendously, as said before this is because your now given the tools to use, poke check works, stick tie ups and of course hitting. These work now because the puck carriers dont have invisible puck control. Playing a patient game allows for you to shut down players much easier compared to years past. The skating is much smoother, along with controller input recognizing the puck carrier and your trying to do, to limit his ice.

    This has been a huge improvement playing the 1-on-1 rush hasnt been easier, in the series ever.

    Just an fyi the TPS was developed from using NHL skaters since 2012 or even sooner, to bring back an old engine that wasnt very realistic, is kinda backwards dont you think ? Maybe we should get some clips from NHL 11 and compare it to NHL 17 ?

    Attached is some clip I found on youtube from NHL 11, not very realistic eh bud ?



    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    ...

    Definitely agree with you. TPS really hasn't progressed a whole lot. They increased pivot speed, added in precision skating (but it's terrible) and arguably adjusted the games logic of when where and how to orient your player in front. Sure these things added a little bit on control but nothing serious.
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    ...

    The old engine was not as bad as people want to make it out to be. I'm not saying we should go back to it, but the main problems with it compared to TPS is that the acceleration was too high as if your player had no mass to him, and the initial lateral movements, as in the first fraction of a second, would happen without your skater visually moving his feet which when compared to TPS looks weird. Other than that, what was so awful and unrealistic about it? When you watch that clip, the skaters had no trouble facing the play and turning up ice after a turnover. The play itself looked more natural and fluid, and played the same; even if the individual skaters sometimes moved in a way that *looked* funny at times. In TPS you see guys facing the wrong way, pivoting late (even though the pivots are sped up, they just don't occur the instant you want them to at times) players using two feet to stop even if they're gliding at low speed, sometimes turning when you actually just want to come to a stop. TPS is definitely not 100% realistic no matter what anyone wants to say. The small positional adjustments look ridiculous as if they're happening at top speed. Whereas in the prior skating your legs wouldn't move to make those tiny adjustments which is half the reason people refer to it as "floaty." And I don't think it's even possible to put those tiny animations in which is why they haven't found an in-between. All of these issues with TPS aren't just cosmetic. They effect how you move and face the play. 95% of the time in the old engine your movement is dictated by your edges and the other 5% is what I mentioned above where your skater wouldn't move his legs to initiate lateral movement. Those numbers are purely arbitrary as I'm sure there's other instances of the old skating not looking right but they're definitely not some glaring problem if I can't even remember them.

    If you took the old engine, and added mass to skaters to slow down how quickly they could accelerate to make it similar to the current skating, it would be totally fine. It would give users so much more control, and still punish you for making a wrong decision with your skates. The people who completely trash the old skating never go into detail about why exactly it was bad.
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up while gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an above-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a small adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly thought year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.






    No your right NA3HL isnt a high level of hockey, never heard of it. Considering I got paid, played in front of thousands of fans, and played with current NHLers I think Im someone who actually played the game and at NHL speed, so wouldnt it be fair to say Im someone who knows alittle bit more, then most ?


    As for the dippsy doddle dont get me wrong, I cant stand that type of play, the swing left, swing right/ protect puck is something that really needs to be toned down/ non existent and a players puck control when doing this really needs to be toned down big time. I dont argue that at all. But your straight away speed, pivots acceleration etc are pretty accurate, to say the TPS needs an overall is kinda backward thinking. How then would the skating engine evolve ? (which it has every year, getting better)

    Now with a players tie up ability and poke check, the game has been given a patient defensemen the tools needed to capitalize.

    Take the example of going to the outdoor rink/shinny hockey. During these times players are able to do some pretty amazing moves, because their competition is at much different level, this game it can be easily said the same thing applies. As your competition margin widens your gonna see players try these aspects alot more. And I think people are frustrated more because the game has really required more defensive awareness to be successful which increase the margin, a bit more.



    What league did you play in Cogs? I also played in front of thousands when I was in Jr. Also had a rip in the Central Hockey League a few years ago, and an invite to an AHL camp in Norfolk a couple years ago, and I now play Sr. A. I got paid too, and played with NHL calibre up and comers. The skating itself I find very fluid...its the stop/starts and pivoting that needs major work. Way too slow. There is no explosion out of the gate that most NHLers have. That being said, rockered blades have alot to do pivoting and cornering and the speed of that...so I can concede that point to you...since every player's blades are different and you obviously cant code every individual blade and its effect.
    You have to be able to notice the explosive starts are missing. It legit looks as if they've never done line sprints in their lives.
  • trw1987 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    HipNotiiCx wrote: »
    First of all COGs, the NA3HL isn't "high level hockey"

    Now, with invalid, irrelevant point taken care of, I can actually discuss the actual topic of this thread (hint: it's not about what level you played hockey at. This is about the skating engine.) Anybody who has played hockey even remotely competitively before knows this game's skating engine is an abysmal failure. It seriously takes so much fun out of the game. Honestly, I think it got worse from last year for defense. At least last year, I didn't feel as floaty, and that I could actually make some subtle adjustments. This year, I feel like they just cranked acceleration up, so now a one foot adjustment, turns into a four foot semi-cricle because your guy is soooo out of control! Then, at the same time, If I pick a puck up while gliding backwards and want to go forward, my guy has to do this weird, semi-circe pivot nonsense in order to simpy start skating the direction he was already facing!

    This is has been an on-going debate throught the community for years, and I really really want to take the side of TPS, but after years of no progress, I really just wish it'd go away. Being someone who would argue I have an above-average grasp on TPS, I do like the idea in THEORY, that there should be some skill to skating. However, there is no amount of skill that can prepare you for the situations that arise while playing high level 6s. With some of the best forwards in the game thumb wise, and vision wise, TPS absolutely handcuffs defesemen.

    A forward who is very good at twitching, protecting the puck, and knowing how to exploit the defensemen's lack of lateral movement is an absolute nightmare to play against. I can't move laterally fast enough to get in a position to poke without tripping. I can't take the body because it was perfect in the beta, so naturally, it got broken and nerfed in the final release, to the point where defensemen are bouncing off stationary forwards with their stick held back to the side while glinding or still. So, my only option left is to keep a tight gap, hope my forwards can catch up to the play, and hope he can't drag the puck thorugh my legs/feet multiple times in a row...So, basically 16 all over again... *long, defeated sigh*

    I have no doubt it my mind that this game would play a more realistic game of hockey with the old skating engine. I feel like the old engine just needed a little more weight on turns, and it really could've been great! I never saw a defensemen randomly do a 360 trying to make a small adjustment. I never held "vision control" for 20 seconds, as my guy nonchalantly keeps gliding the same direction, refusing to turn around. And I never felt literally helpless on 50% of the goals my team gave up.

    At the end of the day, when defensemen have to pay just as much attention to making their guy face the puck, as they do watching the actual play, you have set yourself up for a medicore game experience. I mean, we can't even laterally skate fast enough to combat a forward just skating, let alone givng him the tools to stop on a dime, bounce off hits, and jump 5 feet with a windmil deke.

    Long story short, this game will never reach it's potential with this skating engine. This is year five, and I honestly thought year one (13) of TPS was heads and tails better than 17. There's a reason the NHL series has slowly drifted from an anual SGOTY contender, to a less than impressive, slowly dying franchise. And it's not because people don't like hockey...It's because people want to be in control, we want to make plays, and we want the game to be fun. TPS, those ridiculously useless puck pickups, auto "no touch dekes", and the cancer that is next-gen human goalies, does not equate to a fun game.






    No your right NA3HL isnt a high level of hockey, never heard of it. Considering I got paid, played in front of thousands of fans, and played with current NHLers I think Im someone who actually played the game and at NHL speed, so wouldnt it be fair to say Im someone who knows alittle bit more, then most ?


    As for the dippsy doddle dont get me wrong, I cant stand that type of play, the swing left, swing right/ protect puck is something that really needs to be toned down/ non existent and a players puck control when doing this really needs to be toned down big time. I dont argue that at all. But your straight away speed, pivots acceleration etc are pretty accurate, to say the TPS needs an overall is kinda backward thinking. How then would the skating engine evolve ? (which it has every year, getting better)

    Now with a players tie up ability and poke check, the game has been given a patient defensemen the tools needed to capitalize.

    Take the example of going to the outdoor rink/shinny hockey. During these times players are able to do some pretty amazing moves, because their competition is at much different level, this game it can be easily said the same thing applies. As your competition margin widens your gonna see players try these aspects alot more. And I think people are frustrated more because the game has really required more defensive awareness to be successful which increase the margin, a bit more.



    What league did you play in Cogs? I also played in front of thousands when I was in Jr. Also had a rip in the Central Hockey League a few years ago, and an invite to an AHL camp in Norfolk a couple years ago, and I now play Sr. A. I got paid too, and played with NHL calibre up and comers. The skating itself I find very fluid...its the stop/starts and pivoting that needs major work. Way too slow. There is no explosion out of the gate that most NHLers have. That being said, rockered blades have alot to do pivoting and cornering and the speed of that...so I can concede that point to you...since every player's blades are different and you obviously cant code every individual blade and its effect.
    You have to be able to notice the explosive starts are missing. It legit looks as if they've never done line sprints in their lives.

    This is exactly why I think they need to consult a power skating coach with a good reputation to help them bring more efficient skating maneuvers to the game. It seems almost as if every single stop/start in the game is the same regardless of speed. But playing defense, the pivots and transition I don't think is as fluid or responsive as it should be, and also lateral movement isn't there at all. It makes playing defense in this game a lot less fun than it used to be, being so restricted. Low speed skating is also terrible and clunky. The skating needs more animations if they only want you to be able to move based on the animations, but also not lock you into the animations like they do with precision skating. You need ro be able to transition in and out of moves and maintain control throughout .It's something that it going to be outrageously difficult if you want everything to look 100% correct and true to real life. Skating and the human body is just too complex. And it obviously comes at the price of having less control. I'd rather have the control than have my skater be handicapped but looking good doing it.
  • In TPS you see guys facing the wrong way, pivoting late (even though the pivots are sped up, they just don't occur the instant you want them to at times) players using two feet to stop even if they're gliding at low speed, sometimes turning when you actually just want to come to a stop.

    This, to me, is the fundamental problem with the way the skating engine works -- it regularly means that the player on the ice is doing something other than what the user wants him to do, even when the user isn't doing anything wrong. That's not good in a video game. And it's not realistic. IRL, Duncan Keith doesn't ever spin when he gets the puck and just wants to skate up ice. But in this game, players spin, or pivot the wrong way, or turn in a direction other than the one you want them to turn all the time. And sure, sometimes it's user error, but much of the time it isn't.

    And even the "user error" argument is odd. When I play Madden or FIFA, I never find my players running in directions, or pivoting in directions, other than the direction I want them to go. Why is this game designed so that that happens all the time?
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    In TPS you see guys facing the wrong way, pivoting late (even though the pivots are sped up, they just don't occur the instant you want them to at times) players using two feet to stop even if they're gliding at low speed, sometimes turning when you actually just want to come to a stop.

    This, to me, is the fundamental problem with the way the skating engine works -- it regularly means that the player on the ice is doing something other than what the user wants him to do, even when the user isn't doing anything wrong. That's not good in a video game. And it's not realistic. IRL, Duncan Keith doesn't ever spin when he gets the puck and just wants to skate up ice. But in this game, players spin, or pivot the wrong way, or turn in a direction other than the one you want them to turn all the time. And sure, sometimes it's user error, but much of the time it isn't.

    And even the "user error" argument is odd. When I play Madden or FIFA, I never find my players running in directions, or pivoting in directions, other than the direction I want them to go. Why is this game designed so that that happens all the time?

    Because skating is a lot more complex than running on a field. And they want the movements to be 100% dictated by the animations. Those two combined are never going to work perfectly. They would need waaaaay more animations to do it. And the game is also half predicting where and how your player should turn and animate itself based on where the puck is and it out thinks itself. In my opinion.
  • If you took the old engine, and added mass to skaters to slow down how quickly they could accelerate to make it similar to the current skating, it would be totally fine. It would give users so much more control, and still punish you for making a wrong decision with your skates. The people who completely trash the old skating never go into detail about why exactly it was bad.

    It's really kind of sad that they've spent 5 or 6 years on TPS, and they still haven't gotten it to the same level of control as the old system. At a certain point, doesn't someone at EA have the responsibility to say that TPS has failed and needs to get dropped? It's almost like they've tied so many parts of the game into it at this point that they must not be able to get rid of TPS without remaking the entire engine or something. Even worse is that I doubt EA is planning to do a new engine until at least NHL 19.
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