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Examples of HUT suspected balancing engine

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bibliotekarien
24 posts Member
edited October 2016
Background


Every now and then, posters discover that there is a discrepancy between player stats and player behaviour. In other words, a team consisting of statistically good players act worse then players with mediocre stats. Lesser teams, it seems, gets smarter playing AI and scores more on weak shots.

This balancing-engine is common in the game industry and goes by the names Rubber-banding or Dynamic game difficulty balancing.

The purpose of this in HUT is unclear, but perhaps the idea is to aid lesser teams to even the playing field. By keeping poor playing customers happy they'll keep buying packs.

Some posters questions the existense of such phenomena, most leaning on arguments revolving the following:

1. Lack of skill
2. Bad connection
3. It's in your head

What these posters miss is that other game modes don't suffer from this experience of game balancing mechanics. And why would a players skill be bad/inconsistant only in HUT? Why would players only experience bad connection in HUT? Makes no sense. Furthermore, there's a fair share of Div 1 players experiencing this balancing mechanics.

Below is a list of player reactions to NHL17 and the suspected balancing engine of HUT. I will add on to the list as I read of more examples. I re-post this on Hfboards, Reddit and other platforms with HUT-players.

Any critique is welcome, but please refrain from the aforementioned arguements.

The list

Mathben78: My average players were 87-88. I sold them all and i try to play with 80-84 players. All of a sudden, my AI players actually moves and act like they want the puck.



Taste-D-Rainbow: Same story, different year. I was steam rolling Ovies, Teresenkos, Heros ... I upgrade to an all 88+ team and now I'm getting outhustled by common golds. Still dominating every game but buddies goalie stands on his head while my tender is a sieve. Discarded my team and now I'm winning again. Funny how this works every year. I'm legit afraid to upgrade my team.


Taste-D-Rainbow: For whatever reason HUT is the only mode that plays like this for me. In VS usually the better user wins. HUT is always a crapshoot.


Smokin666: That's the main reason I refuse to spend much on pAcks this year. I learned a valuable lesson last year. Had a team full of MOVEMBER players and othe noticeables like Ovi, Stammer, Sid and etc...
Had games were u r just stuck in the mud, hit every post but the empty net bump into ur own players which ironically prevent u to either get the puck out of ur d zone or score.



Afro-Samurai-519: Had a mediocre team and went all the way to D1 and won the title twice. Then ...the upgrades...bought 90overalls and 88s , now my lowest rated player is 88ovr and I am losing more and more. I thought this was ultimate team.


MacShred: HUT mode is the only mode that does this
It's ****. Spend money to upgrade your team only to get beat by trash players with their cheap teams.


Hoolio88: ...scared everytime I get a good player to put him in the lineup...upgraded my D with Weber and Josi and the forwards turn into a bad 3 stooges movie.


Fcamodeo: That is how EA wants it. I have it from a good inside source. She tells me it this way si it stays competitive. Or else when you see Stammer in HUT at opening screen. People will quit before game starts. Niw when i see Teows i lick my chops. Solid win FOR me. THANKS EA...


Synergy2525: I just watched a stream where their team had a bunch of 78 rated players. Their team was scoring non stop on teams rated 94 and above on HUT. They just won division 1 undefeated. How does this happen? Should we not get better players? I just thought it was crazy how a lower rated team outskated, outshot, and outsaved the stacked team. This was on twitch and the streamer said he has top players (which he showed them) but he doesn't use them because they don't perform good.

ESPOtheDON: ...it is kind of annoying when an 83 Murray flies over to save 3-5 perfect timed OneTimers by Seguin and Kessel. yet my 87 Varlamov cant save a simple wrister from the outside by Brassard.

ESPOtheDON: I will definitely win more games (against the same control group) with an 88 Squad VS a 94 Squad..

Finch1965: Last year I played almost 2,000 HUT games, maybe two third off-line season games. After last years experience I´m quite sure there was some kind of AI balancing in the game…


MacShred: I have been able to replicate this guy's findings. HUT is most definitely on some kind of handicap system.


Lowernu82: Played a dozen or so games online, every 3rd or 4th game is completely lop sided where the opponent doesnt need any skill what so ever to outplay me … was **** is when your opponent msgs you and says that they didnt even belong in that game and they should have lost, haha.


Sgt_Kelso: …there might be a momentum engine in the game, sometimes teams/players are hot or cold. That's been in there in the past, so I don't think it's been removed. And you certainly see some odd things in singleplayer games which might account for this type of thing.


Mattyhockey10: I also almost feel like my controller gets deactivated this year for an easy goal to keep the games close. I think out of my first 15 games I've gone to ot 6 times with people that had no business being in the game at all.


Djevulsk: they just throw a puck at the goal and it just happens to ... slowly trickle past the goalie making it 1-1 , so OT is the same thing again, they throw a puck and goalie just drops it in...
This has happened on so many occasions.. that i cant help to think about things...



Anesthesia22: They make a game close when it has no business being close and never was close. Ive seen this with online HUT and vs CPU...

[email protected]: The amount of weird **** that happens in the last minute is way to much, leading by one, scores another, whistled of because Goalie interference when he was the one doing what you could call a major for interference on my forward right into his own goalie. Then he scores on a floater to tie it up.

[email protected]: Yeah i'm not sure why i thought it would make a difference this year lol. Pretty much since the origin of HUT i've always rolled with guys in the 85-87 range goalie eise. Every time i tried to upgrade too, i got torched.

BeloglazovOleg: In my team play Каменев 77 over and Aberg. Both players play batter than high rated cards (((

[email protected]: I have played stacked teams and they seem worse than the bad teams...Really sad since we spend real money on this game.. I'm probably going to call ea and ask for a refund and see what they say.. Game is completely broken as far as gameplay is concerned.. Good players that they want us to pay for are not worth more than a quick sell player... It's really bad!
Post edited by bibliotekarien on

Replies

  • Its in your head. I'm 86-4 in leaderboards and one of those was a disconnect verse a substantially weaker player. One loss was deserved against FlashDavin (probably the best hut player in the world)... Another was against a top leaderboard guy who played an exceptionally good trap once he got the 1-0 lead and deservedly beat me 3-2. My other loss I believe was a bit iffy. But thats 90 games played and only 1 iffy loss.

    I roll an all hero / wcoh team. (WCOH Bure, WCOH Tarasenko, WCOH Cujo)
  • You are a good player, no doubt. And as such you are not very representable for the average players experience of the game.

    As I explained above "In your head" does not give us a full explanation. It does not take in to account that Balancing Mechanics are not experienced in VS. nor in EASHL. Why would our minds only falter in HUT?
  • If someone is 86-4 I don't see how you can say there is balancing mechanic that is changing the outcome of the majority of your games.

    Sometimes bounces don't go your way or you let in a bad goal in real hockey as well. I don't think it has to do with the overall of your team specifically in HUT.

    Is everyone complaining undefeated in every other mode of the game? That's the only way to justify this argument.
  • Taste-D-Rainbow
    2399 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    When i read the title I assumed you actually found examples with in game footage, not just user quotes lol.

    Look I'll admit to losing and be a good sport about it when I'm actually beaten but I refuse to be a good sport when I feel cheated because of a scripted outcome. This game just has way too much of this. EA is shady and the development team have a bad track record. Hasn't Madden said they have some form of balancing algorythm? FIFA had the chemistry bug for years before it was brought to light. I can only assume there's something fishy about NHL as well.

    Now I'll admit I'm not the best NHL player but when I'm absolutely destroying your **** in every aspect of the game in what should be a no contest, the fact that you score 3 goals on 3 shots to tie the game on what should be routine saves ... when you've only mustered 5 all game ... this grinds my gears.
  • You are a good player, no doubt. And as such you are not very representable for the average players experience of the game.

    As I explained above "In your head" does not give us a full explanation. It does not take in to account that Balancing Mechanics are not experienced in VS. nor in EASHL. Why would our minds only falter in HUT?

    Perhaps it doesn't happen to you in versus because the ranking system actually works - you're playing against someone who's a similar rank and, in theory, a similar skill level to you. HUT's ranking and division system is flawed compared to what it used to be before next-gen; in the past, you were matched based on rank, and your rank fluctuated based on wins and losses. Now, ranking means nothing, and anyone in division 1 who's only OK at the game can run into someone like JClaus or Bas3 and get humiliated.

    I don't know how there could be an equalizer in EASHL since you only have a few choices of players...

    Also, sample sizes are necessary. A 50-game scrub team vs. stacked 90+ team test mentioned in another thread is important, because it'd actually prove your theory. Without that (and screenshot PROOF), yours is only a theory.
  • The guys who have dominant records use exploits to win. It's how you overcome the balancing. That's why they are exploits.
  • The guys who have dominant records use exploits to win. It's how you overcome the balancing. That's why they are exploits.

    It's an EA game the only way to get ranked is to use exploits. People devote all their free time to finding exploits in EA games.
  • smatthew9
    36 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    The guys who have dominant records use exploits to win. It's how you overcome the balancing. That's why they are exploits.

    Just like...any ranked video game out there. Bet you this same conversation's going on in dozens of video game forums. Maybe the only difference would be cheating allegations, on some of them.

    edit: referring to "exploits", not balancing.
  • This argument is completely useless. Those of us that play HUT constantly and not just once in a while, I bet we all experienced this game play. Not every single game but here and there.
    To those who say they never did, either u r very lucky these things didn't happen to you or just agents of the company just like you tubers trying to push more packs.
    I'll never complain or discuss this subject on these forums. Completely useless.
    I bleed hockey!!!!!!!!!!
  • haha is this what were calling ice tilt now? "in game balancing mechanics" hahaha. I believe it exists but i dont believe it depends on what kind of cards you have. It is better to have a stacked lineup than it is not to is what im trying to say. In game balancing is random, I could lose to one guy who has no business beating me OT, then ill play him next game and make him rage quit in the 1st period. This exact scenario has happened to me 1000s of times since NHL16. The better player will win more often than not, especially if you know the in game exploits to overcome the balancing, thats why elite players with stacked $ teams will win over 90% of their games. The people on these forums who complain about losing to a lesser team while having a stacked team arent elite players at NHL.
  • Am I the only one that cannot believe the OP copied all these quotes and pasted them in this thread? Wow!
    Once again. I will play anybody with a team of 82's and I will beat you 9 out of 10 times.
  • Maybe i buy glitched copies of the game every year, because my higher rated players always play better than the 82-83s. I'd hate to say it, but I think a lot of the complaints are a result of people thinking that elite players will automatically win against a lesser team and don't try as hard.
  • Youratv
    260 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    He's actually right. Suprised i know. They just patched fifa for the exact thing he described. Placing higher chemistry players together creating a negative chemistry effect.
  • @Youratv do you have a link to this info?


    @Casinator39 After 5 years of the same **** I guess I had enough! ;)


    @BlakeLeafsx11 even if it should proof to be random, it has no buisiness in an online competative game. Let the players skill decide the outcome of games, not some shady in-game mechanics. If I loose a game I want it to be MY fault. :)

  • @Youratv do you have a link to this info?


    @Casinator39 After 5 years of the same **** I guess I had enough! ;)


    @BlakeLeafsx11 even if it should proof to be random, it has no buisiness in an online competative game. Let the players skill decide the outcome of games, not some shady in-game mechanics. If I loose a game I want it to be MY fault. :)

    agreed
  • You're giving far too much credit to the Devs here. Every one of those comments are examples of what happens when the game hasn't synchronised correctly, so one connection is dominant. It's been like it for years and they've still not figured out how to mitigate any difference. Look at some of the glitches posted in here regularly - you think they're capable of creating a complex game balancing engine?

    It's not some evil EA master plan. It's a lack of competence in programming.
  • @eyebrowz84 Fair enough. But yet again the question arises, why does this not occur (atleast with the same frequency) in VS. or EASHL?

    Making an invisible slider for AI related to the teams stats would not be an all to difficult task. Say that team A has an average stat of 85 and team B 92, then team A's AI gets a 15% boost. I could see that being easily implemented. It would also undermine the whole point of teams being Ultimate.

    Kinda where we are now, I suspect.
  • @Youratv do you have a link to this info?


    @Casinator39 After 5 years of the same **** I guess I had enough! ;)


    @BlakeLeafsx11 even if it should proof to be random, it has no buisiness in an online competative game. Let the players skill decide the outcome of games, not some shady in-game mechanics. If I loose a game I want it to be MY fault. :)

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/gaming/526075/FIFA-Ultimate-Team-FUT-Chemistry-Glitch-EA-Sports-RighteousOnix-Boycott/amp&ved=0ahUKEwjk1bbf-sDPAhXEDj4KHapRCf8QFgglMAM&usg=AFQjCNFlke2qDWWOHE3lZlMbDN9AdTq5ew
  • So, what if 2 equally skilled players match up, other one has starting pack team, and other has TOTY team with loads of synergies. Should there be some balancing or the weaker team just get completely slaughtered? This is an extreme scenario, just wondering what people think.

    From my experince, there definitely is a balancing factor in HUT, just go in online versus and take a match between NHL All Star team and AHL team for example. AHL team is quite surely going to get blown out if players are about equally skilled.
  • Youratv wrote: »
    @Youratv do you have a link to this info?


    @Casinator39 After 5 years of the same **** I guess I had enough! ;)


    @BlakeLeafsx11 even if it should proof to be random, it has no buisiness in an online competative game. Let the players skill decide the outcome of games, not some shady in-game mechanics. If I loose a game I want it to be MY fault. :)

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/gaming/526075/FIFA-Ultimate-Team-FUT-Chemistry-Glitch-EA-Sports-RighteousOnix-Boycott/amp&ved=0ahUKEwjk1bbf-sDPAhXEDj4KHapRCf8QFgglMAM&usg=AFQjCNFlke2qDWWOHE3lZlMbDN9AdTq5ew

    That's interesting...
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