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Simulation VS Arcade

Prev1345
RedBull1973JL
741 posts Member
edited October 2016
For five years in a row now (NHL 13, 14, 15, 16, 17) we are hearing the same complaints over and over again, myself included. The skating svcks. Players don't turn properly or quickly enough. Animations control most of the game-play. Any amount of delay/lag results in a bad experience for ONE player. You can out-skill somebody and lose because of poor AI programming or unlucky "randomness." Blah, blah, blah. Anybody who has been on this forum for more than a week knows how the story goes.

So based on that, can a legitimate argument be made that this series NEEDS to return to a more classic "arcade-like" feel rather than EA increasing the randomness and simulation qualities they "TRY" to instate every year? Too often you feel like you are playing against your controller more than you are your opponent, and it would be nice to feel like you are in control of what your players do ALL of the time.

I'm not saying a full-scale arcade game here. You would still need to use "hockey sense" to be successful at the game. You would still have the full set of rules, but the bu!!5h!t we have now needs to go.

We need a game that follows your controller commands 100% of the time.

Replies

  • Skatings fine, carrying on
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • there is 'sometimes' physics to the randomness. I think it just needs some refinement, like that one goal somone posted that puck should have been sent out of the zone, not in the net.
  • They can't decide between 100% physics and 100% predetermined rebounds, possession, etc. Every year we get a mix somewhere in the middle, some years worse than others. This year we got a pretty bad tilt towards the predetermined side, as evidenced by the nonstop rebounds to offensive sticks, much like NHL 13. Here's to hoping that next year will be much closer to physics-based hockey and player vs. player actually meaning something.
  • T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    They can't decide between 100% physics and 100% predetermined rebounds, possession, etc. Every year we get a mix somewhere in the middle, some years worse than others. This year we got a pretty bad tilt towards the predetermined side, as evidenced by the nonstop rebounds to offensive sticks, much like NHL 13. Here's to hoping that next year will be much closer to physics-based hockey and player vs. player actually meaning something.

    That's what I have been hoping for since NHL 13 left a bad taste in my mouth. I will say that NHL 15 and Legacy on old gen probably played the best of ALL iterations of the game since NHL 12, in my opinion...so much so that I keep the 360 hooked up just for that. On new gen there seems to be a lot "behind the scenes" going on controlling the flow of games. I'd love to be wrong on that, but my experiences make me feel as though I'm right. It is brutal trying to play this game with skill this year as you seem to have a better chance just mashing buttons and holding right stick up in the offensive zone as the puck bounces around.

    I bought the game on release day like a good EA sheeple and have regretted my purchase two weeks into its lifespan. I didn't even make it half way from release to the start of the season this year. The Beta played OK and felt like it could be worth it based on that, but we all know what they like to do to the Beta once it becomes the full release.

    The game just needs to be based on skill and control rather than luck and automation. It's a big problem when your controller fights you more than your opponent does.
  • We need a game that follows your controller commands 100% of the time.

    Yea, I'm sick of having my left stick ignored because the game decided that it wanted me to finish some stupid animation I didn't ask for. It feels like too often the game is trying to predict your next stride, but hockey moves too fast for that to work well, so it ends up floundering.

    It's just not fun anymore. They've made the hockey equivalent of a Flight Simulator game. If I have to spend this much time and effort learning how to skate in the engine that EA came up with, why wouldn't I just join another league in real life?
  • I don't care what anyone wants to say about not knowing how to properly use the skating engine. If you're playing defense and watching the play and you're not 100% focused on your own skater at all times and know the tendencies that occur in specific situations, and time when you press and let go of L2 perfectly, you're going to initiate movements that you don't want. It's unavoidable. The skating needs to be intuitive. More control over where our player is facing, and lateral mobility in relation to the puck is a must.
  • We need a game that follows your controller commands 100% of the time.

    Yea, I'm sick of having my left stick ignored because the game decided that it wanted me to finish some stupid animation I didn't ask for. It feels like too often the game is trying to predict your next stride, but hockey moves too fast for that to work well, so it ends up floundering.

    It's just not fun anymore. They've made the hockey equivalent of a Flight Simulator game. If I have to spend this much time and effort learning how to skate in the engine that EA came up with, why wouldn't I just join another league in real life?

    Yup. I want 100% control of my guy at ALL times. I don't want to be stuck in some animation especially the seemless puck pick ups that take over your guy. I'm not sure why EA tries to control our player. Give the user FULL control of their player.
  • The skating is great. Best it's ever been. Learn how to play.
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    Skatings fine, carrying on

    I don't agree with you often, but here I do.
    Agree with operatorasfnck too.

    Skating is good. You can't go full speed pumping your boost then suddenly go the opposite direction without changing your momentum. Should it be easier to make turns? No. Turning is also fine.

    People just have to learn that you can't do certain things on skates that you can do on feet. That's why hockey moves so much different than soccer. Every year the skating gets better and more realistic, imo.
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    Skatings fine, carrying on

    I don't agree with you often, but here I do.
    Agree with operatorasfnck too.

    Skating is good. You can't go full speed pumping your boost then suddenly go the opposite direction without changing your momentum. Should it be easier to make turns? No. Turning is also fine.

    People just have to learn that you can't do certain things on skates that you can do on feet. That's why hockey moves so much different than soccer. Every year the skating gets better and more realistic, imo.

    The skating isn't too bad but the vision control is terrible. That's my biggest gripe with the movement part of the game. As far as actual skating goes, puck carrier agility needs to nerfed, unless you get a suicide pass, any decent player can easily avoid a hit with the possession of the puck.

    I'd say most of the people who think skating is perfect and completely fine only play forward positions, because as a forward, it does feel fine, you can pull off multiple dekes back to back, toe drag the puck to avoid a hit and turn on a dime no matter what your speed is and half the time you can make it to the defense off of a faceoff draw before the defense even gets the puck.

    No problems with any of that as a forward I'm sure.
  • Tier1SOFOperator
    496 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Skatings fine, carrying on

    I don't agree with you often, but here I do.
    Agree with operatorasfnck too.

    Skating is good. You can't go full speed pumping your boost then suddenly go the opposite direction without changing your momentum. Should it be easier to make turns? No. Turning is also fine.

    People just have to learn that you can't do certain things on skates that you can do on feet. That's why hockey moves so much different than soccer. Every year the skating gets better and more realistic, imo.

    100%. The key is to regulate how much direction and pressure you are putting on the left stick. Once you figure that out you'll see how much you can control your player. I think it's awesome. Use light touches on the stick, vice mashing it. In addition you rarely need to use hustle. A lot of people over use it resulting in a loss of control.
    Post edited by Tier1SOFOperator on
  • As usual people misinterpret people's issues with the skating and simply say "it's fine." Talking about the inability to skate full speed and quickly reach top speed in the opposite direction is a grossly oversimplification of what people think of the skating engine. I'm sure some people think that way. The people who are skating at top speed everywhere on the ice, but I and most of the other people I've talked to, and discussed their grioes with the skating engine are like-minded and want to see better low speed control over our skaters with a primary focus on responsiveness, facing the play on a consistent basis without having to fight any sort of spinning, and having the fidelity and fluidity to transfer in and out of lateral movements.
  • As usual people misinterpret people's issues with the skating and simply say "it's fine." Talking about the inability to skate full speed and quickly reach top speed in the opposite direction is a grossly oversimplification of what people think of the skating engine. I'm sure some people think that way. The people who are skating at top speed everywhere on the ice, but I and most of the other people I've talked to, and discussed their grioes with the skating engine are like-minded and want to see better low speed control over our skaters with a primary focus on responsiveness, facing the play on a consistent basis without having to fight any sort of spinning, and having the fidelity and fluidity to transfer in and out of lateral movements.

    Yes of course there is always room for improvement but I disagree with you that TPS is crap and should be scrapped. Last thing I want is floating garbage skating from the past.

  • cogsx86
    787 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    As usual people misinterpret people's issues with the skating and simply say "it's fine." Talking about the inability to skate full speed and quickly reach top speed in the opposite direction is a grossly oversimplification of what people think of the skating engine. I'm sure some people think that way. The people who are skating at top speed everywhere on the ice, but I and most of the other people I've talked to, and discussed their grioes with the skating engine are like-minded and want to see better low speed control over our skaters with a primary focus on responsiveness, facing the play on a consistent basis without having to fight any sort of spinning, and having the fidelity and fluidity to transfer in and out of lateral movements.

    Colon, I have shown, players dont face the play continuously. The only real part that needs to be addressed is when the puck carrier is in the corner, and the defense-men is not able to go North South but at the same time facing east west.

    This is the only piece that EA really needs to address with players who dont have the puck in the corners.

    As for players with the puck, the auto dekes are a joke, and need to be addressed because players have bubbles when they active that auto dekes. This should be addressed.

    But again as stated to say the TPs needs to scrapped is a bit short sited.
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • 100%. The key is to regulate how much direction and pressure you are putting on the right stick. Once you figure that out you'll see how much you can control your player. I think it's awesome. Use light touches on the stick, vice mashing it. In addition you rarely need to use hustle. A lot of people over use it resulting in a loss of control.

    Again we're supposed to listen to someone lecture us on the virtues of this game, even though he thinks the RS is what controls skating. Unbelievable.

  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    100%. The key is to regulate how much direction and pressure you are putting on the right stick. Once you figure that out you'll see how much you can control your player. I think it's awesome. Use light touches on the stick, vice mashing it. In addition you rarely need to use hustle. A lot of people over use it resulting in a loss of control.

    Again we're supposed to listen to someone lecture us on the virtues of this game, even though he thinks the RS is what controls skating. Unbelievable.

    Which ever stick it is **** head!

  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    As usual people misinterpret people's issues with the skating and simply say "it's fine." Talking about the inability to skate full speed and quickly reach top speed in the opposite direction is a grossly oversimplification of what people think of the skating engine. I'm sure some people think that way. The people who are skating at top speed everywhere on the ice, but I and most of the other people I've talked to, and discussed their grioes with the skating engine are like-minded and want to see better low speed control over our skaters with a primary focus on responsiveness, facing the play on a consistent basis without having to fight any sort of spinning, and having the fidelity and fluidity to transfer in and out of lateral movements.

    Colon, I have shown, players dont face the play continuously. The only real part that needs to be addressed is when the puck carrier is in the corner, and the defense-men is not able to go North South but at the same time facing east west.

    This is the only piece that EA really needs to address with players who dont have the puck in the corners.

    As for players with the puck, the auto dekes are a joke, and need to be addressed because players have bubbles when they active that auto dekes. This should be addressed.

    But again as stated to say the TPs needs to scrapped is a bit short sited.

    Literally nobody has mentioned TPS here except for you and operator (and now me I guess), let alone someone saying it should be scrapped. Everyone here agrees that TPS has many good points, but it also has a number of thorns that EA has ignored for far too long either because they don't care, it's not possible to change, or they think it is working as intended.
  • I am probably alone with this, but I'd like there to be only one game style (realistic), and no different difficulty levels at all. If you wanted easier opponents, you'd play against teams from minor leagues.

    I just hate it when on the higher difficulty levels even all the scrub teams play like SC champions.
  • Hotjoint wrote: »
    We need a game that follows your controller commands 100% of the time.

    Yea, I'm sick of having my left stick ignored because the game decided that it wanted me to finish some stupid animation I didn't ask for. It feels like too often the game is trying to predict your next stride, but hockey moves too fast for that to work well, so it ends up floundering.

    It's just not fun anymore. They've made the hockey equivalent of a Flight Simulator game. If I have to spend this much time and effort learning how to skate in the engine that EA came up with, why wouldn't I just join another league in real life?

    Yup. I want 100% control of my guy at ALL times. I don't want to be stuck in some animation especially the seemless puck pick ups that take over your guy. I'm not sure why EA tries to control our player. Give the user FULL control of their player.

    My favorite are the stupid stride dekes that launch solely by LS and RS. Sometimes I actually just want to turn left while holding the puck to the left to open up a lane and then make a quick pass, and not some stupid animation that takes forever. Even worse, is that it queues up my pass to happen immediately after the deke, but not the direction I was pressing on the LS, so more often than not the puck just goes way off target because the stride deke animation makes me freak out for a moment to try and get control back from the game.
  • I hate the puck pickups that drag you an extra 2-3 feet.
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