EA Forums - Banner

Simulation VS Arcade

1235Next

Replies

  • It's always been like that Bull. Passes have always gone through players based on your passing attribute. The playmaker is supper to resemble a player that can thread the needle. And that means passing it through players. Agree with it or not, that's the way it's always been. Unless you've never made your player with over 95 passing in old gen customizing builds.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    It's always been like that Bull. Passes have always gone through players based on your passing attribute. The playmaker is supper to resemble a player that can thread the needle. And that means passing it through players. Agree with it or not, that's the way it's always been. Unless you've never made your player with over 95 passing in old gen customizing builds.

    Through a player legs is one thing, an 100' pass through a perfectly positioned D man that goes through/deflects from his stick right to a breaking offensive player is nonsense and SHOULD NEVER happen. Again there is no defending this video, this is a problem that needs to be addressed.
  • Regardless of why stuff like that happens, it just shouldn't, and EA needs to do something about it. That should be a pass deflection/interception 100% of the time, regardless of the player types involved. The user was in just about perfect position, facing the passer and the pass going by his forehand. Even if that pass is three feet or three inches off the ground, any player type should be able to deflect a pass from that far away, whether they need to use their foot, stick, or glove to do so.

    Every player type should be able to make basic plays, even if they are not strong in that attribute. The player types should augment your play style, not define it.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    CrushNHL wrote: »
    :D:D Only you could completely speculate on every single dynamic of that play, and then declare it all as fact. :D:D

    That's how the mode is built. If you don't know that, then you haven't been playing this series for long.

    'Build 1 trumps build 2 at this but build 2 trumps build 1 at that.'

    If the passing attoebute doesn't go through people, then what does the playmaker do? Body check? Nope. Snipe? Nope. Play defence? Nope. Carry the puck and control the play down low? Nope. Ability to take hits and stay on his feet and even hold the puck? Nope.

    So Tell me how the playmaker is a build that would be effective?

    My thought on your example is this. The Playmaker build could/should be able to not only pass with pinpoint accuracy and a higher speed, but the player should also be able to release the pass quicker and under more "stressful" situations without fail (while being bodied, not facing the receiver, while skating full speed, etc.) His pass will also be able to be handled by the receiver MUCH better than if an Enforcer was the one making the pass.

    It should NEVER be about pucks physically passing through solid objects. That is the wrong way to give an advantage to one player class. There are other "more realistic" ways to achieve that.

    Bingo! You have nailed it on the head.

    Eric's take on this whole subject is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on this forum, huehuehuehuehue :D:D
  • Regardless of why stuff like that happens, it just shouldn't, and EA needs to do something about it. That should be a pass deflection/interception 100% of the time, regardless of the player types involved. The user was in just about perfect position, facing the passer and the pass going by his forehand. Even if that pass is three feet or three inches off the ground, any player type should be able to deflect a pass from that far away, whether they need to use their foot, stick, or glove to do so.

    Every player type should be able to make basic plays, even if they are not strong in that attribute. The player types should augment your play style, not define it.

    I've been busy with work (out of state for last 6 days) and come back to see NOTHING has changed.

    Nicky - To the bolded part, That's exactly what I have been talking about for the last few installments of this game/series. EA has trouble with getting BASIC HOCKEY 101 aspects of the game to work properly and that drives me (along with others) crazy. NO reason for the pass to have not been picked off or deflected away (stick, skate, etc)

    The DEVS say it's a necessary evil (solid objects passing thru solid objects), ok I'll buy that (I understand it is just a video game) but for me it's the timing part of it that bothers me the most. Why does the game get to Decide when a solid object will or will not pass thru another solid object. Is it Situational (PP or PK), is it Time of Period?, is it the Score of the game? **** is it that makes the game decide this pass physically passes thru his Dman (damn near perfect positioning) stick at that moment in time???? We as human players HAVE NO CONTROL over when the Game will let a pass hit a stick and get deflected or physically pass right thru it

    I'll use my situational game clock as an example. My best friend and I are playing a best of 7 series UNRANKED and playing for NOTHING but chirping rights until next game/series (this way the tryhards can't say I'm crying because I won't move up on the precious Leader Boards/Rankings).
    I'm up in series 3-2, up in the game 1-0, 3rd period 14min left. Best friend is on the PP and running a good cycle in my zone. AT 12:28 my winger catches a break and his poke check connects with the puck, knocking it back into the Neutral Zone. Best Friend gathers the puck and proceeds to re-enter my zone and set up the cycle again. AT 11:44 his Dman winds up for a slapper (stick is high in the air on back swing, loose puck just sitting their). My winger poke checks at the puck and low and behold my stick physically passes thru the loose puck that is just sitting there, to add insult to injury, as he begins his forward swing, his stick physically passes thru my Stick and connects with the puck and sends it sailing, gets deflected past my goalie for the tying goal.
    NOW, why did the game decide to allow my poke check to WORK TO PERFECTION at 12:28 but then allow my poke check to PHYSICALLY PASS THRU THE PUCK at 11:44. That's some serious Horse Sheet if you ask me, that is taking the game/situation OUT of my (Human Players) hands, I have ZERO control over when the Game will decide if that works or it won't work.

    And yet EA DEVS / Mods wonder why people claim the game is rigged (Ice Tilt, Momentum, etc). Here's a thought, Hey DEVS/Mods, IF my poke check worked at 12:28 (when my bff HAD Control of the puck), Don't ya think it should ALSO WORK TO PERFECTION at 11:44 when he is in the Back swing of a slapper and the puck is loose and just sitting there motionless?????????????????????????????????????
  • There simply is no defending that video, the puck should not go through his stick or deflect right to the offensive player.

    Yup. That video just shows how messed up this game is. You can be in perfect position with your blade right there but it'll go right through. That's why so many people have had it with this game.
  • We can argue with each other and speculate all day, but if we keep playing this trash we are part of the problem. Stop rewarding a dev team that doesn't listen to its most loyal customer base.

    The problems that need to be fixed are simple: get rid of the "sometimes" logic. Stop playing the game for us. If I'm between the passer and the receiver, that is my puck. Don't auto-saucer it and don't make my stick a non-solid object. My player class doesn't matter. Don't decide when my hits should land and when they shouldn't. The same well-placed hit should land 100 times out of 100. No roll of the dice. It's a player vs. player game. Let us play against each other. Poke checks and stick lifts are positional defensive tools. They should 100% of the time be determined by timing and position. Don't decide that a well-placed poke somehow doesn't matter because it's Patty Kane on the rush.

    Until these are fixed, stop playing. Stop buying into the hype.
  • T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    The problems that need to be fixed are simple: get rid of the "sometimes" logic. Stop playing the game for us. If I'm between the passer and the receiver, that is my puck. Don't auto-saucer it and don't make my stick a non-solid object. My player class doesn't matter. Don't decide when my hits should land and when they shouldn't. The same well-placed hit should land 100 times out of 100. No roll of the dice. It's a player vs. player game. Let us play against each other. Poke checks and stick lifts are positional defensive tools. They should 100% of the time be determined by timing and position. Don't decide that a well-placed poke somehow doesn't matter because it's Patty Kane on the rush.

    I want 100% physics in this game (I don't really care whether they're arcade or sim at this point, as long as they're consistent). But what you're describing here is not what this series has ever been about, nor is it a game people want to play, at least in 1v1 modes. People want attributes to matter. Kane should be able to do a better job of connecting with the open man than Eric Fehr can. Stamkos should be better at picking out the top corner, Hedman better at knocking someone down. This is a simulation of the NHL, and different players should play differently.

    And even if you do away with attributes, there are still going to be (virtual) dice rolls -- how else would you determine outcomes? If I send a shot to the top corner, how are you going to determine , first of all, whether it hits the target and second, whether or not it beats the goalie, other than using a dice roll? Are you just going to say -- if you get to this spot on the ice, you automatically pick out the top corner perfectly? That doesn't seem any more realistic than what we have now.

    The game's problem is not that attributes matter -- they matter in every sports game ever made -- nor is it the reliance on dice rolls. The problem is that there's just no consistency in the way attributes affect the game, and that the game's wonky physics completely subvert any attempt to make this a simulation of real hockey.
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    The problems that need to be fixed are simple: get rid of the "sometimes" logic. Stop playing the game for us. If I'm between the passer and the receiver, that is my puck. Don't auto-saucer it and don't make my stick a non-solid object. My player class doesn't matter. Don't decide when my hits should land and when they shouldn't. The same well-placed hit should land 100 times out of 100. No roll of the dice. It's a player vs. player game. Let us play against each other. Poke checks and stick lifts are positional defensive tools. They should 100% of the time be determined by timing and position. Don't decide that a well-placed poke somehow doesn't matter because it's Patty Kane on the rush.

    I want 100% physics in this game (I don't really care whether they're arcade or sim at this point, as long as they're consistent). But what you're describing here is not what this series has ever been about, nor is it a game people want to play, at least in 1v1 modes. People want attributes to matter. Kane should be able to do a better job of connecting with the open man than Eric Fehr can. Stamkos should be better at picking out the top corner, Hedman better at knocking someone down. This is a simulation of the NHL, and different players should play differently.

    And even if you do away with attributes, there are still going to be (virtual) dice rolls -- how else would you determine outcomes? If I send a shot to the top corner, how are you going to determine , first of all, whether it hits the target and second, whether or not it beats the goalie, other than using a dice roll? Are you just going to say -- if you get to this spot on the ice, you automatically pick out the top corner perfectly? That doesn't seem any more realistic than what we have now.

    The game's problem is not that attributes matter -- they matter in every sports game ever made -- nor is it the reliance on dice rolls. The problem is that there's just no consistency in the way attributes affect the game, and that the game's wonky physics completely subvert any attempt to make this a simulation of real hockey.

    I used to agree with you, but a 100% physics game from EA scares me these days. I don't see them ever being able to accomplish it. Even more than that, I don't think it would be any fun. The number of times you have 3-4 skaters in a group with possession changing every half second is already too high, and I don't think a user could get enough control of their skater to be able to keep possession for too long.

    As far as attributes go, I think Topher is more talking about EASHL, while you're talking about HUT. We absolutely need attributes in HUT, but I'm not sure one way or the other that they're needed in EASHL. I could probably be convinced one way or the other at this point, but they also don't matter all that much now anyways. My club played a few games last night with all enforcers and other than being slower than normal, we were still able to dangle, cycle, and snipe.

    No dice rolls doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though. Even something as "simple" as whether a shot scores or not could have more than enough variables to make the result seem random. Essentially, you draw a goal net on your LS, and this gets smaller or larger based on all sorts or inputs and your shot ends up going exactly in the same spot every time if you have the exact same set of variables somehow. A player stopped in practice mode should be hitting exactly where they aimed, while a player in a real game will have a much harder time getting it where they wanted.

    As far as where your shot actually goes, you could do things like say that the faster your skater is moving, the smaller the net would seem, if you have pressure from an opponent from the left or right, it should push your aim away from them, being on your backhand would also make the net smaller, and being fatigued or off balance would have an impact as well. Then you've got things like how long they've been aiming at that spot, how accurately they hit straight up on the RS, how well they timed it if it was a one-timer, and how long they've had the puck if it was loose or a one-timer.

    Higher shot accuracy would lessen the effects of these variables, and the goalie would have a similar mechanic where higher vision and area of net (high glove, low blocker, etc.) ratings let's them see more of the values to predict where the player is shooting, and screens, moving your goalie, passes, and other things similarly make you more or less able to see the shot as it's coming and react.

    There's nothing that says it has to be a dice roll to get games that don't feel the exact same every time, and while you would be right that glitch shots would likely be more prevalent in this sort of style, simply getting pressure on a player would make it that much harder for them to get a good shot off, and only repeatable if they were extremely good with their sticks and predicting the amount of error in their shot at any given time.
  • We need a game that follows your controller commands 100% of the time.

    Yea, I'm sick of having my left stick ignored because the game decided that it wanted me to finish some stupid animation I didn't ask for. It feels like too often the game is trying to predict your next stride, but hockey moves too fast for that to work well, so it ends up floundering.

    It's just not fun anymore.

    Amen.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    The problems that need to be fixed are simple: get rid of the "sometimes" logic. Stop playing the game for us. If I'm between the passer and the receiver, that is my puck. Don't auto-saucer it and don't make my stick a non-solid object. My player class doesn't matter. Don't decide when my hits should land and when they shouldn't. The same well-placed hit should land 100 times out of 100. No roll of the dice. It's a player vs. player game. Let us play against each other. Poke checks and stick lifts are positional defensive tools. They should 100% of the time be determined by timing and position. Don't decide that a well-placed poke somehow doesn't matter because it's Patty Kane on the rush.

    I want 100% physics in this game (I don't really care whether they're arcade or sim at this point, as long as they're consistent). But what you're describing here is not what this series has ever been about, nor is it a game people want to play, at least in 1v1 modes. People want attributes to matter. Kane should be able to do a better job of connecting with the open man than Eric Fehr can. Stamkos should be better at picking out the top corner, Hedman better at knocking someone down. This is a simulation of the NHL, and different players should play differently.

    And even if you do away with attributes, there are still going to be (virtual) dice rolls -- how else would you determine outcomes? If I send a shot to the top corner, how are you going to determine , first of all, whether it hits the target and second, whether or not it beats the goalie, other than using a dice roll? Are you just going to say -- if you get to this spot on the ice, you automatically pick out the top corner perfectly? That doesn't seem any more realistic than what we have now.

    The game's problem is not that attributes matter -- they matter in every sports game ever made -- nor is it the reliance on dice rolls. The problem is that there's just no consistency in the way attributes affect the game, and that the game's wonky physics completely subvert any attempt to make this a simulation of real hockey.

    I used to agree with you, but a 100% physics game from EA scares me these days. I don't see them ever being able to accomplish it. Even more than that, I don't think it would be any fun. The number of times you have 3-4 skaters in a group with possession changing every half second is already too high, and I don't think a user could get enough control of their skater to be able to keep possession for too long.

    As far as attributes go, I think Topher is more talking about EASHL, while you're talking about HUT. We absolutely need attributes in HUT, but I'm not sure one way or the other that they're needed in EASHL. I could probably be convinced one way or the other at this point, but they also don't matter all that much now anyways. My club played a few games last night with all enforcers and other than being slower than normal, we were still able to dangle, cycle, and snipe.

    No dice rolls doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though. Even something as "simple" as whether a shot scores or not could have more than enough variables to make the result seem random. Essentially, you draw a goal net on your LS, and this gets smaller or larger based on all sorts or inputs and your shot ends up going exactly in the same spot every time if you have the exact same set of variables somehow. A player stopped in practice mode should be hitting exactly where they aimed, while a player in a real game will have a much harder time getting it where they wanted.

    As far as where your shot actually goes, you could do things like say that the faster your skater is moving, the smaller the net would seem, if you have pressure from an opponent from the left or right, it should push your aim away from them, being on your backhand would also make the net smaller, and being fatigued or off balance would have an impact as well. Then you've got things like how long they've been aiming at that spot, how accurately they hit straight up on the RS, how well they timed it if it was a one-timer, and how long they've had the puck if it was loose or a one-timer.

    Higher shot accuracy would lessen the effects of these variables, and the goalie would have a similar mechanic where higher vision and area of net (high glove, low blocker, etc.) ratings let's them see more of the values to predict where the player is shooting, and screens, moving your goalie, passes, and other things similarly make you more or less able to see the shot as it's coming and react.

    There's nothing that says it has to be a dice roll to get games that don't feel the exact same every time, and while you would be right that glitch shots would likely be more prevalent in this sort of style, simply getting pressure on a player would make it that much harder for them to get a good shot off, and only repeatable if they were extremely good with their sticks and predicting the amount of error in their shot at any given time
    .

    That's a very good way of looking at it. Right now there doesn't seem to be a penalty for taking bad shots. For example, I could go up and body check somebody off the puck and he will either shoot as I'm hitting him or immediately one-time the loose puck with PINPOINT accuracy to beat my goalie.

    Another example is a skater skating full speed towards the goal line and just taking a slapper or wrister and squeaking it by the goalie with perfect accuracy. I understand those "surprise" shots do go in, but ONLY once in a blue moon as NHL goalies are usually sound enough in their positioning to keep that from happening.

    I think your theory of using the virtual net being different sizes based on what the player with the puck is actually doing would be a BIG step in the right direction so attributes can matter based on what you are doing and how you do it rather than the computer picking a random number to decide it for you.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    The problems that need to be fixed are simple: get rid of the "sometimes" logic. Stop playing the game for us. If I'm between the passer and the receiver, that is my puck. Don't auto-saucer it and don't make my stick a non-solid object. My player class doesn't matter. Don't decide when my hits should land and when they shouldn't. The same well-placed hit should land 100 times out of 100. No roll of the dice. It's a player vs. player game. Let us play against each other. Poke checks and stick lifts are positional defensive tools. They should 100% of the time be determined by timing and position. Don't decide that a well-placed poke somehow doesn't matter because it's Patty Kane on the rush.

    I want 100% physics in this game (I don't really care whether they're arcade or sim at this point, as long as they're consistent). But what you're describing here is not what this series has ever been about, nor is it a game people want to play, at least in 1v1 modes. People want attributes to matter. Kane should be able to do a better job of connecting with the open man than Eric Fehr can. Stamkos should be better at picking out the top corner, Hedman better at knocking someone down. This is a simulation of the NHL, and different players should play differently.

    And even if you do away with attributes, there are still going to be (virtual) dice rolls -- how else would you determine outcomes? If I send a shot to the top corner, how are you going to determine , first of all, whether it hits the target and second, whether or not it beats the goalie, other than using a dice roll? Are you just going to say -- if you get to this spot on the ice, you automatically pick out the top corner perfectly? That doesn't seem any more realistic than what we have now.

    The game's problem is not that attributes matter -- they matter in every sports game ever made -- nor is it the reliance on dice rolls. The problem is that there's just no consistency in the way attributes affect the game, and that the game's wonky physics completely subvert any attempt to make this a simulation of real hockey.

    I used to agree with you, but a 100% physics game from EA scares me these days. I don't see them ever being able to accomplish it. Even more than that, I don't think it would be any fun. The number of times you have 3-4 skaters in a group with possession changing every half second is already too high, and I don't think a user could get enough control of their skater to be able to keep possession for too long.

    As far as attributes go, I think Topher is more talking about EASHL, while you're talking about HUT. We absolutely need attributes in HUT, but I'm not sure one way or the other that they're needed in EASHL. I could probably be convinced one way or the other at this point, but they also don't matter all that much now anyways. My club played a few games last night with all enforcers and other than being slower than normal, we were still able to dangle, cycle, and snipe.

    No dice rolls doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though. Even something as "simple" as whether a shot scores or not could have more than enough variables to make the result seem random. Essentially, you draw a goal net on your LS, and this gets smaller or larger based on all sorts or inputs and your shot ends up going exactly in the same spot every time if you have the exact same set of variables somehow. A player stopped in practice mode should be hitting exactly where they aimed, while a player in a real game will have a much harder time getting it where they wanted.

    As far as where your shot actually goes, you could do things like say that the faster your skater is moving, the smaller the net would seem, if you have pressure from an opponent from the left or right, it should push your aim away from them, being on your backhand would also make the net smaller, and being fatigued or off balance would have an impact as well. Then you've got things like how long they've been aiming at that spot, how accurately they hit straight up on the RS, how well they timed it if it was a one-timer, and how long they've had the puck if it was loose or a one-timer.

    Higher shot accuracy would lessen the effects of these variables, and the goalie would have a similar mechanic where higher vision and area of net (high glove, low blocker, etc.) ratings let's them see more of the values to predict where the player is shooting, and screens, moving your goalie, passes, and other things similarly make you more or less able to see the shot as it's coming and react.

    There's nothing that says it has to be a dice roll to get games that don't feel the exact same every time, and while you would be right that glitch shots would likely be more prevalent in this sort of style, simply getting pressure on a player would make it that much harder for them to get a good shot off, and only repeatable if they were extremely good with their sticks and predicting the amount of error in their shot at any given time
    .

    That's a very good way of looking at it. Right now there doesn't seem to be a penalty for taking bad shots. For example, I could go up and body check somebody off the puck and he will either shoot as I'm hitting him or immediately one-time the loose puck with PINPOINT accuracy to beat my goalie.

    Another example is a skater skating full speed towards the goal line and just taking a slapper or wrister and squeaking it by the goalie with perfect accuracy. I understand those "surprise" shots do go in, but ONLY once in a blue moon as NHL goalies are usually sound enough in their positioning to keep that from happening.

    I think your theory of using the virtual net being different sizes based on what the player with the puck is actually doing would be a BIG step in the right direction so attributes can matter based on what you are doing and how you do it rather than the computer picking a random number to decide it for you.

    Yep, I understand that mistakes happen in real life, but having my player programmed to mess up 5% of the time when I'm otherwise in a good position to make a play is ignoring the fact that I could have made tons of mistakes that would cause me to not be in position. Even the best players make mistakes without EA's help, and those are the mistakes that should be deciding games, not the ones where the AI goalie lets in a weak wrister 5-hole from the point.
  • Yep, I understand that mistakes happen in real life, but having my player programmed to mess up 5% of the time when I'm otherwise in a good position to make a play is ignoring the fact that I could have made tons of mistakes that would cause me to not be in position. Even the best players make mistakes without EA's help, and those are the mistakes that should be deciding games, not the ones where the AI goalie lets in a weak wrister 5-hole from the point.

    This is the point I've been trying to make for years. Literally years. Human players vs. other human players. We all make mistakes. Don't force them upon us. It should be an even playing field the entire game, and the better player will make less mistakes, take better shots, and score more goals. That's it. People lose games. Stop trying to appease every body. You think games like Counter-Strike get hundreds of thousands of people playing at any given second by appeasing the noobs and making the pros feel like they're constantly fighting against invisible mechanics? No. Better players win, and people love that. People strive to be better players. Let us play against each other. Nothing else.
  • Maybe they should replace the hockey sticks with shovels. Just keep shoveling dem pucks a dat net.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    There are complaints every year, with that said you have to measure by how much fun we have playing this game.

    NHL 09,10,11,12 had complaints, but fun factor was off the charts.

    NHL 13, 14,15 1,6,17 have complaints, but very few people say they are having a blast.

    Since there are always complaints we need to revert back to what's more fun, make NHL more arcade like in the past 09,10,11,12.
  • I had a blast playing 15 on old gen, it was my favorite one. My biggest complaint about it were the glitch goals.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.