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  • poke checking is currently messed up, it was great in beta. you poke checked a puck and it was always knocked from the carriers control. now it's about 25% successful depending on the situation. not sure what was changed but something definitely did.
  • djneohockey
    721 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    CrushNHL wrote: »
    Who is "we"?
    I know many gamers that don't miss the Littmans era at all, including myself.
    Look at the OS.

    If anything the series is still way too flawed with the legacy issues and bad design decisions from that era.

    The size of the online community pre-TPS ('12 and earlier) and post-TPS (13 and later) says it all. Pre TPS=Thriving/Post TPS=Ghost Town.

    I have a different theory. I think people just get bored doing the same stuff again and again. Or play the game that haven't evolved that much... or defend the same cheap tactics that works in the game (from humans and ai)

    That's why offline and sliders are so popular this year. You can tweak the game to something that feels new and fresh, at least for a while.

    Online tho, or on default settings its Nhl 13.5 (or NHL 08.9

    Im not surprised people get bored after 1 week playing beta. After that you saw it all.
    Post edited by djneohockey on
  • poke checking is currently messed up, it was great in beta. you poke checked a puck and it was always knocked from the carriers control. now it's about 25% successful depending on the situation. not sure what was changed but something definitely did.

    Poke check was too good in beta, every class could hit pokes with 99% accuracy the first try, even when out of position. It needed a nerf.
  • @NHLDev

    Hey, Ben!

    Glad to see you back in the grind! I'm not gonna bother bringing up any points I have about the game (they're mostly the same as the ones I had in the topics I created) as this probably wouldn't be the best place to do so.

    I do have some issues I think would need to be addressed regarding the goalies that you seem to think are "ok". Mainly their inability to properly track a fast moving skater across the crease. But that's for another thread and another time.

    For now, again, glad to have ya back! ;)
  • Thanks for taking time out to communicate. I've tweeted several times with no response. Not like I expected one, but I DO expect it to be read and accounted for when making a list of things this game has that needs fixed.

    You've touched on everything I have a beef with save for one thing: AI scoring on it's own team. In the last three weeks, I've encountered some serious garbage that was inflicted on me by my own "robot team". We have enough problems trying to ensure the AI isn't confused or cowering in the fetal position off next to the boards.

    Please watch this:

    http://xboxclips.com/MookStunna/cadf9d87-472f-4e0f-807c-17fc49965151

    Thank You,
    MookStunna
    Chris
  • Goalie problems,
    As stated in the numerous posts above there are serious issues with goalie play. The biggest issues are the opposition bum rushes where you as the get rammed freezing your play/reaction and they knock it in even if stopped the initial shot. It is ridiculous this is no where close to real life play. You cannot rush the goalie knock into the net and get a goal with no interference call or least stoppage of play.
    Trying to cover the puck. The shot is made you stop it and the puck sits there your goalie does not cover even as your are holding triangle and of course the opposition pokes in even though you had plenty of time to cover the puck. This happens on both manual and auto mode.
    Goalie not responsive to your user inputs. The never reacts according to your input. I don't know how many times your sliding to block a cross crease play and goalie slides stops half way or doesn't move at all. Especially if opposition is behind the net going back and forth.
    Garbage goals.....!
    I don't mind being scored on by legit good shots or offensive play. I have made plenty of mistakes that allowed goals those are to be expected. The balance though is severely tilted toward scoring. I get it everyone want to see goals scored but a little more balance to reward good goalie play would nice as well. Clearly with all the posts on goalie play indicate a issue with this part of playing.
    Fix the "game tilt". It seems that once a team gets momentum you're screwed as a goalie even with good positional play.
    Just balance out the game
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »

    This one is even more absurd, since shooter is being bumped from behind and drags his stick through defender's stick, and still puts it exactly where he's aiming. But anyway, if you know what you're doing, this is pretty much gold -- look at how the goalie doesn't even track the puck and move to his left.


    Oh my - that's an interesting clip.

    This showcases that some animations, once triggered, don't seem to have any way of being interrupted.

    The defender hits poke check, and instead of the animation stopping when the player with the puck interferes with the poke check itself - the animation continues with the stick going through the player model.

    So, I think that the game decided the player with the puck 'beat' the defender, but still allowed the poke check animation to continue. This would be one of those cases where the player controlling the defender gets frustrated that his poke check 'goes through' a player rather than being effective. If the poke check animation had halted due to the player legs getting in the way, the sequence would look much better.

    The game has a huge amount of trouble handling interactions between the poke check and the body, and it's made worse by the fact that we can't aim our pokes. Here's an awful example from last night. I'm skating with Kessel, and I want to just reach out and poke the puck away. Shouldn't be difficult -- I'm faster than he is, and puck is well within reach. Poke animation gets delayed from when I hit RB, but even so, at worst it should come up a little short of the puck -- I should still be poking down ice.

    Instead, the game makes me poke through the ice -- literally -- and then through Kessel's body and through the boards, so my right arm somehow ends up behind Kessel. He basically wriggles free -- controlling the puck, which is nowhere near his stick, the entire time -- and ends up setting up an easy goal (which you can't see here) because my other defenseman simply stopped at the top of the circle and let the winger skate past him:



    I know stick-body, stick-board interactions are tough to code, but man, that is just a complete mess.


  • NickRitt87
    42 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Ben,
    Franchise morale is wonky with injuries. Players that are not fully recovered yet able to play become disgruntled if they are a scratch(or you play them and risk further injury). This leads to a severe drop in rating and a trade demand. Thus has been plaguing Franchise since last year.

    Thanks!
    Post edited by NickRitt87 on
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey Everyone -

    There is no way that I will be able to jump into all the threads today and respond to everything but I wanted everyone to know that despite not having a new account since the new forums went active until today, we have been reading and listening to everything that everyone has had to say -- Not only on these forums but all forms of social media, other sports gaming sites, reddit, twitter, facebook, you name it.

    On top of that, there are people that send summaries of the most pressing and talked about issues from the most active channels so there isn't too much that slips by and we have continued to have an ongoing chat with the Gamechangers group on a daily basis.

    That said, I completely understand that you don't want to assume something is read and also want the opportunity for back and forth discussion. Believe me, I have wanted to get a new account going since these forums went live as the timing around the forums going down was not ideal at all when we had decent communication going back and forth heading into launch and had a lot to say about the new game, what we saw from the Beta and all of the work we were able to get onto disc and into the first patch that was available for Day 0.

    As you have seen, our latest patch went up today and along with a few other big fixes, it fixed the stick lift issue that was introduced in the Day 0 patch. Believe it or not, it was a knock on to trying to fix an issue seen during the Beta regarding high sticking penalties. We looked to see if we could fix it through a tuner in the meantime but it unfortunately needed code.

    To be able to get the fixes in this update out, we had to prioritize them above everything else to even get them to you this soon. I know you would have liked to see them fixed sooner but that is just an example of the time it takes and why the list isn't bigger this time around.

    That said, these aren't the only issues we have been tracking or looking at. We are also looking at a new tuner and potential content updates for the future but can't confirm anything at this point.

    For the tuner, we are tracking issues such as goalie precision movement speed, a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck lost to a pokecheck or incidental contact, goalie rebound control, deflections and a few other things. There are some other issues that have been brought up by the community that require code but you can be sure that there has at least been investigation of the top issues that have been called out across all modes.

    As before, we can't confirm anything as being fixed or that it will be a part of the game until it is but we will be transparent when we can be. In other cases, continue to work through the gamechangers if you don't feel like your voice is being heard directly and continue to post on these forums and other social channels knowing that we do read everything and take all of the feedback very seriously.


    Thanks.

    - Ben

    Hi, Ben. I usually don't come on these forums but I saw it and had to use it. There's a few things that I wanted to get across. 1) Passing. Passing is a real burden sometimes, especially when the all-to-often occurrence where I will pass the puck to my winger and they will not catch the pass but instead change off in a line change. 2) Defensemen. I have been playing NHL for a while now (years, 98 was my first), and this is the first time I've seen so many breakaways as a result of AI defensemen getting flatfooted after attempting a hit. Maybe it's just my timing, but as soon as I switch to that player they are in a hitting form and is very simple for the opponent to deke around. 3) Scoring. My God, is this one frustrating. No proven NHL goalie will allow some of the goals to go in (in a real game), but the goals will go in during a game. Weak shots from the point will go in sometimes, I get that. But I personally feel as if it happens too often.

    Anyways, thanks for your time. Say hi to Clappy for me, please.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »

    I know stick-body, stick-board interactions are tough to code, but man, that is just a complete mess.

    That is definitely messy. Hopefully the team can have a close look and figure out what's up with that.

    Thanks for the videos. These go such a long way in helping resolve issues.

    On a first look, I would think it is actually the physics of the hand that is holding the stick getting pushed behind the player since the poke was initiated after the right hand was behind Kessel. When the hand tries to push forward toward the puck, it pushes into Kessels back and since the arm is trying to react properly form the physics solve, it doesn't have anywhere to go but to displace and slide across his back which then makes the stick push out to the right rather than forward.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    @NHLDev

    Hey, Ben!

    Glad to see you back in the grind! I'm not gonna bother bringing up any points I have about the game (they're mostly the same as the ones I had in the topics I created) as this probably wouldn't be the best place to do so.

    I do have some issues I think would need to be addressed regarding the goalies that you seem to think are "ok". Mainly their inability to properly track a fast moving skater across the crease. But that's for another thread and another time.

    For now, again, glad to have ya back! ;)

    Ya, I have been following some of the other threads you have posted in. All good feedback and good video examples of where things could be much better.

    I definitely wouldn't say I am 'ok' with a goalies ability to track a puck carrier. Two issues the team are looking at are puck carrier agility/speed lost when turning/deking and user goalie precision movement speed.

    I am not sure what would be tuned, if anything yet, but we certainly aren't turning a blind eye to how things are playing out.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    That is why we also make you accountable on the shooting side ensuring you have less accuracy if you shoot before settling (after skating/deking/making a move, etc.) or if you shoot at a less than ideal angle where you don't get good leverage.

    But Ben, shooting after a toe drag on a breakaway is a 100% goal right now, even though the logic you just articulated should make those shots go wide -- or at the goalie, rather than top shelf -- a significant percentage of the time. If in fact the game is tuned to make shooters less accurate when they shoot immediately after deking, why does every toe-drag-to-shot in high-level games end up top corner?

    IMO none of what Ben said is reality. I don't notice any problem being very accurate while skating full speed, spinning, back skating, deking, shooting one timers, etc... all from impossible angles where the goalie is in very good position. but yet i can just be sitting still, all alone in the slot and have shots miss wildly same with passes. but seriously i see little to no impact on shooting/passing accuracy while doing any of the things they say affect those things.

    the reason that toe drag deke shot is basically 100% accurate is because that move basically freezing the goalie and allows you to quickly change to a drastically different shooting angle. so many animations just turn this game into a circus and need to go away. that toe drag deke is probably the biggest example. it was much better when it basically took a little skill to manually do something similar and it didn't create some kind of invincibility bubble around you and didn't cause wonky stuff with the defenders/goalies.

    I guess that is where the difference is. These aren't my opinions, these are facts. It may not have as much impact as you expect but all you have to do is go into practice mode with the online default settings set and spin before shooting compared to sitting in a glide to see the vast difference in your shot spray over the course of 5-10 shots.

    Another test is to skate laterally or at a 45 degree angle with your backhand to the net and use the slapshot windup and shot to rotate your player around the puck to take the slapshot. The leverage, power and accuracy you get on that shot compared to skating into a well planned and balanced slapshot is quite different.

    One other simple test is to quickly stick handle back and forth on your right stick backhand, forehand, backhand forehand and shoot before re-settling.

    A regular forehand toe drag doesn't have as much affect as a spin on puck control but there is a difference compared to settling the puck in a glide first. That said, if you are deking the goalie and are in tight on the net, the chance of seeing accuracy differences is different than if you are further out as the puck has less room for error and it would be more the levarage/power that you would notice. And above all that, we can definitely look at the impact toe drags have on shooting some more.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Thanks for taking time out to communicate. I've tweeted several times with no response. Not like I expected one, but I DO expect it to be read and accounted for when making a list of things this game has that needs fixed.

    You've touched on everything I have a beef with save for one thing: AI scoring on it's own team. In the last three weeks, I've encountered some serious garbage that was inflicted on me by my own "robot team". We have enough problems trying to ensure the AI isn't confused or cowering in the fetal position off next to the boards.

    Please watch this:

    http://xboxclips.com/MookStunna/cadf9d87-472f-4e0f-807c-17fc49965151

    Thank You,
    MookStunna
    Chris

    First time I have seen that one. Usually glove pickups always acquire if they solve. Quite the dunk.

    We are looking at AI passing at/near their own net in EASHL as another possible tuner change. Right now they take too many risks with passing towards their net which leads to dangerous plays.

    We did put in a fix this year so the AI won't attempt glove pickups near their net in cases where the would glove the puck and drop it in the crease/net but out above the crease wouldn't fall into that category.

    Out of curiosity, is this just the worst example or have you seen this particular case multiple times? Would addressing the passing towards your own net solve the majority of the issues you are seeing outside fumbled pickups when they are trying to clear rebounds etc which we all know could be better?
  • Speaking of goal line. Is it just me or are way too many goals being scored from there? player accuracy from goal line should be dropped.
    The only way it seems to stop one of these shots is to hug the post, I have been square to the shooter off to the side of the net, only to have the puck go right through me.
    Maybe its just me I dont know.
    Hug post sonetimes works and sonetimes doesn't this makes it much worse.
  • Ohh, am I the only one who didnt have to create a new account on here. All i had to do was login.
  • Ohh, am I the only one who didnt have to create a new account on here. All i had to do was login.

    All I had to do was log in too but all of my posts (over 5,000) were gone, so all of the contributions I made in the past vanished.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Thanks for taking time out to communicate. I've tweeted several times with no response. Not like I expected one, but I DO expect it to be read and accounted for when making a list of things this game has that needs fixed.

    You've touched on everything I have a beef with save for one thing: AI scoring on it's own team. In the last three weeks, I've encountered some serious garbage that was inflicted on me by my own "robot team". We have enough problems trying to ensure the AI isn't confused or cowering in the fetal position off next to the boards.

    Please watch this:

    http://xboxclips.com/MookStunna/cadf9d87-472f-4e0f-807c-17fc49965151

    Thank You,
    MookStunna
    Chris

    First time I have seen that one. Usually glove pickups always acquire if they solve. Quite the dunk.

    We are looking at AI passing at/near their own net in EASHL as another possible tuner change. Right now they take too many risks with passing towards their net which leads to dangerous plays.

    We did put in a fix this year so the AI won't attempt glove pickups near their net in cases where the would glove the puck and drop it in the crease/net but out above the crease wouldn't fall into that category.

    Out of curiosity, is this just the worst example or have you seen this particular case multiple times? Would addressing the passing towards your own net solve the majority of the issues you are seeing outside fumbled pickups when they are trying to clear rebounds etc which we all know could be better?

    Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

    This was in HUT, however, the rest of the wonky AI-self goals have ALL been in EASHL...only two modes I play. I noticed in the EASHL side, when the AI are behind the net, attempting to skate or pass...sit there for a moment, then they wrap it in.

    NOW, there are a couple things I *think* I have figured out here...

    1. Some of where your AI passing issues are directly affected by how one's Breakouts are setup. Anyone curious, read into what each one does--Leave Zone Early, Stay Wide, etc., then look where you are on the ice at this time. Are you playing to the system you have setup? If not, look out.

    2. Some of it can be attributed to a selfish or ignorant person calling for the puck when there isn't a clear line from the AI to the Human. If a Human is way up ice cherry picking, and the AI is behind the net, watch out.

    3. It seems like the AI is trained to run that puck behind the net, then break out. However, they're getting caught up on something different that I cannot deduce, which leads to the puck either being shot at or wrapped -- into a self goal. Typically when a human skater is between the circles and blue line, along the boards.

    I believe in my feed I have more AI self goal videos. I am in no way going to ask you go peruse that and lemme know. I will do my best to try and find those videos also. I will either PM you the links, or post back here.

    Thank You Again,
    MookStunna
    Chris
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Yes, all of the AI strategies in EASHL are set to the most conservative. We were looking at updating them to something more standard in the latest roster update but didn't get there in time.

    For the way most people play, it is probably better to set the strategies to something more aggressive for breakouts so that the AI aren't playing with the puck behind the net without passing options.

    We are also looking at that tuner in regards to passing near/at their net as well.
  • I dont have the time to read through this whole thread so my apologies if it was mentioned, but the entrance props are a massive issue in EASHL that need to be fixed ASAP. The game is almost unplayable because people leave them on for the sole reason of exploiting their placement.
  • Ben,
    Are there any plans to change, tweak, or scrap TPS in favor of a new skating engine all together going forward?

    Thanks
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