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  • D19Box
    89 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Yes, all of the AI strategies in EASHL are set to the most conservative. We were looking at updating them to something more standard in the latest roster update but didn't get there in time.

    For the way most people play, it is probably better to set the strategies to something more aggressive for breakouts so that the AI aren't playing with the puck behind the net without passing options.

    We are also looking at that tuner in regards to passing near/at their net as well.

    @NHLDev A simple fix that'd help all around for those who play EASHL with CPU players and NEEDS to be fixed in EASHL:

    There are NO right handed AI skaters in EASHL. Not one. Every single CPU player is a lefty. It's always been this way. And all goalies are lefties as well.

    This makes most passes going to the right almost always landing on the backhand. Not sure why this is, but there needs to be righties patched in.

    Just that small change alone to the RW/RD would instantly improve all passing, quickness and quality of most breakouts. Offensive zone entry, penalty kill, D-to-D play, passing to the point, cycling, power play, you name it would be so much more fluid and quick.

    We'd all prefer to play with real people but sometimes it just doesn't happen and we're playing 3's and 4's. The simple addition of CPU righties really would help everything immensely.

    (***Also, unless you set it to "leave zone early" the strong side wing/CPU should always get to/head towards the boards for the breakout instead of flooding to the center where the lane is already filled. If a righty wing posts up on his wing breakouts would be fantastic.)
    Visit my NHL/Bruins blog: BostonPucks.com
  • @NHLDev:
    Can you comment on the current state of your EASHL servers? Are they working as intended because our team (as well as many others who have posted on here) are being matched up on the wrong servers leading to laggy, unresponsive games that can give the other team a pretty sizeable advantage. Two things:
    1) Could you look into allowing us to choose between east, west, and europe? Letting the game dictate the "best server" isn't working for us.
    2) Is it possible that the home team captain lag situation from last year is back? Every now and then games that are 16ms are unusually laggy. And this time around it's impossible to know who will be affected because since the day 1 patch came out, the captain is always the same between the dressing room and the ready up screen (contrary to last year where it would choose someone based on some type of algorithm possibly related to their connection)

    Thanks in advance. These issues are plain and simply ruining the game for me and it would be a great relief to know that they are being looked at.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Timing on the forums going down was extremely suspicious in my opinion.

    Here's my two cents if you are actually Ben.

    Now that the stick lift is fixed I'm pretty happy with the game for the most part.

    A few things off the top of my head that I think should be fixed in the next update are:

    1. Goalie skill - There are way way wayyy too many garbage goals, goaltending is terrible this year, they need a buff.

    2. Deflections - They are much too effective and take zero skill to use. Today in a drop in, in the last 20 seconds of the game the other team shot from the point and a forward was skating towards our net, about 6 or 7 feet away with his back to the shooter and he tips it perfectly 5 hole... there was no way he could of seen that puck coming.

    Then it went to overtime and the same thing again, shot from the point that was going about a foot wide to the left of the net, a forward came skating full speed from the left circle to the hashmarks and tips it with the shaft of his stick off the right post and in.

    You should have to be facing the shooter with vision control held, being basically stationary to be able to tip well. Tips never even miss the net in this game.

    3. Hitting bubble - Hitting felt great in the BETA but now it feels like people can toe drag and turn to make checks bounce off again. Even a slight turn away can make hits not register.

    That's all that really comes to mind right now but those are things that would definitely help make the game more enjoyable in my opinion.

    I would hope this would still be your two cents if I wasn't the actual Ben.

    Thanks for the feedback. We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games. It really depends on the defense in front of them and although there are some weak goals from time to time, the teams with the better chances are having much more success. I also like the fact that we are in a place now that if the puck goes in the net, it is a goal and that we have made the goalie more accountable for owning the paint and covering pucks that he feels are dangerous rather than letting teammates carry the puck through him and into the goal as if it didn't happen like in past games. With that though comes a few growing pains and we need to continue to improve control around the goal mouth. The positives far outweigh the negatives though in terms of more black and white conditions.

    For the tuner, we are looking at the success by player rating on deflections and how much speed is taken off the puck the more it changes direction, etc. as there are definitely cases that aren't as intended. That said, we did look at deflections this year from before the launch of the Beta and wanted to reward team play where players were able to get in front. We didn't tune deflections at all after the Beta because we had made a chance to allow the goalies to react quicker to redirected pucks as long as they could see it and had the time (again by player ratings) and wanted to see that impact first instead of tuning them down in two places at the same time.

    The hitting bubble is interesting as there weren't any changes from the Beta other than to improve the calculation for how the puck comes lose when you are hit away from the puck. The balance/physics side is the same. As you play better players over time though and as people get more in tune with the game, you will come across more and more players that know how to maximize their success protecting the puck and keeping the relative speed and solid contact of collisions against them down.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Timing on the forums going down was extremely suspicious in my opinion.

    Here's my two cents if you are actually Ben.

    Now that the stick lift is fixed I'm pretty happy with the game for the most part.

    A few things off the top of my head that I think should be fixed in the next update are:

    1. Goalie skill - There are way way wayyy too many garbage goals, goaltending is terrible this year, they need a buff.

    2. Deflections - They are much too effective and take zero skill to use. Today in a drop in, in the last 20 seconds of the game the other team shot from the point and a forward was skating towards our net, about 6 or 7 feet away with his back to the shooter and he tips it perfectly 5 hole... there was no way he could of seen that puck coming.

    Then it went to overtime and the same thing again, shot from the point that was going about a foot wide to the left of the net, a forward came skating full speed from the left circle to the hashmarks and tips it with the shaft of his stick off the right post and in.

    You should have to be facing the shooter with vision control held, being basically stationary to be able to tip well. Tips never even miss the net in this game.

    3. Hitting bubble - Hitting felt great in the BETA but now it feels like people can toe drag and turn to make checks bounce off again. Even a slight turn away can make hits not register.

    That's all that really comes to mind right now but those are things that would definitely help make the game more enjoyable in my opinion.

    I would hope this would still be your two cents if I wasn't the actual Ben.

    Thanks for the feedback. We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games. It really depends on the defense in front of them and although there are some weak goals from time to time, the teams with the better chances are having much more success. I also like the fact that we are in a place now that if the puck goes in the net, it is a goal and that we have made the goalie more accountable for owning the paint and covering pucks that he feels are dangerous rather than letting teammates carry the puck through him and into the goal as if it didn't happen like in past games. With that though comes a few growing pains and we need to continue to improve control around the goal mouth. The positives far outweigh the negatives though in terms of more black and white conditions.

    For the tuner, we are looking at the success by player rating on deflections and how much speed is taken off the puck the more it changes direction, etc. as there are definitely cases that aren't as intended. That said, we did look at deflections this year from before the launch of the Beta and wanted to reward team play where players were able to get in front. We didn't tune deflections at all after the Beta because we had made a chance to allow the goalies to react quicker to redirected pucks as long as they could see it and had the time (again by player ratings) and wanted to see that impact first instead of tuning them down in two places at the same time.

    The hitting bubble is interesting as there weren't any changes from the Beta other than to improve the calculation for how the puck comes lose when you are hit away from the puck. The balance/physics side is the same. As you play better players over time though and as people get more in tune with the game, you will come across more and more players that know how to maximize their success protecting the puck and keeping the relative speed and solid contact of collisions against them down.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    mikeq67 wrote: »
    I dont have the time to read through this whole thread so my apologies if it was mentioned, but the entrance props are a massive issue in EASHL that need to be fixed ASAP. The game is almost unplayable because people leave them on for the sole reason of exploiting their placement.

    Yes, agreed. This is being looked at.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    CrushNHL wrote: »
    Ben,
    Are there any plans to change, tweak, or scrap TPS in favor of a new skating engine all together going forward?

    Thanks

    We are always looking to improve the skating so will definitely continue working on it. Some of the changes made this year have made playing defense and squaring up off puck much better in my opinion.

    Quite a few changes were made, on top of the core improvements, some others that may sound small are actually pretty big improvements as well. An example of one would be getting a backwards accel with the puck even if you press the Left stick slightly before you press vision control. In the past, the pivot would take precedent and complete before flipping back around. There are a lot of updates like this that went into this year along with the core improvements that were made that all help in the general control you have over you skater.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    D19Box wrote: »

    @NHLDev A simple fix that'd help all around for those who play EASHL with CPU players and NEEDS to be fixed in EASHL:

    There are NO right handed AI skaters in EASHL. Not one. Every single CPU player is a lefty. It's always been this way. And all goalies are lefties as well.

    Yes, this has definitely come up. I will raise it with the EASHL team again along with looking at the default strategies set for EASHL clubs. Thanks.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    D19Box wrote: »

    @NHLDev A simple fix that'd help all around for those who play EASHL with CPU players and NEEDS to be fixed in EASHL:

    There are NO right handed AI skaters in EASHL. Not one. Every single CPU player is a lefty. It's always been this way. And all goalies are lefties as well.

    Yes, this has definitely come up. I will raise it with the EASHL team again along with looking at the default strategies set for EASHL clubs. Thanks.

    I appreciate your response and am glad you're looking into it. Thank you!
    Visit my NHL/Bruins blog: BostonPucks.com
  • .
    NHLDev wrote: »
    mikeq67 wrote: »
    I dont have the time to read through this whole thread so my apologies if it was mentioned, but the entrance props are a massive issue in EASHL that need to be fixed ASAP. The game is almost unplayable because people leave them on for the sole reason of exploiting their placement.

    Yes, agreed. This is being looked at.

    Please bare in mind this is not solely the props. The flags and more importantly the EASHL banners completely obstruct the view of the ice (covering the slot and point completely). It's impossible to defend anything intelligently.
    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD VI / D6 NatioN - Our EASHL games are available here on YouTube and Twitch!
  • "We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games."

    I guess this statement really depends on how you think this game is normally played. You seem to assume the best representation of this game is groups of sixes with top speed human defense. This is the exception, not the norm. It also makes me wonder if they take into account games with human goalies that start AND finish games. Usually one of the human goalies will quit out due to all the junk goals going in.

    And I guess I'm somewhat flabbergasted that you are satisfied with the type of goals going in. They are some of the most random and frustrating goals this series had ever seen. The action in the crease isn't a benefit to the series, it's a disgrace. Telemetry or not, the goals going in this year are way too often weak shots taken across the grain as you track the puck or your own team knocking it in your own net when trying to clear the puck.

    Ben, I know you think this is a step forward, but the majority of human goalies would disagree with you. I don't know how much more plain I can say it, and with as much respect for what you have tried to do with the series, but the past two years have been a pretty big exercise in frustration for many of us.

    It just seems there are way too many animations that have been implemented in the spirit of added realism (i'm looking at you T push), that it has made even the most basic functions almost useless. When the regular post hug and basic goalie movement is rarely used by the majority of the goalie community, something is wrong.

    The Goalie needs more love. I know a good portion of the first patch was dedicated to making things better, but more is needed. Precision speed increase is a no brainer, post to post movement needs even more of a speed boost. The margin of error for across the grain shots needs to be increased to allow for you to be moving to track the skater and not get snipped far side as easily. You shouldn't balance the scores of the game on the backs of the goalies. We're already crippled enough as it is.

    Jtric
  • Youratv
    260 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I interpreted what he said as defense can square up to face the puck? I really don't understand the defensive inprovements unless their explained in lamens i guess cause i honestly don't understand it. And that they gave the puck carrier even more control which if ya read half the threads that's what a lot consider the opposite of improvement, imo the guy with the puck should be equal to whom ever surrounds him in terms of ability not better just because he has it. These are not solely my thoughts, if ya read the threads you'll see discussions questioning why one guy gets an increased amount of agility while all others stay the same. That imo is not an improvement.
  • jtricoli wrote: »
    "We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games."

    I guess this statement really depends on how you think this game is normally played. You seem to assume the best representation of this game is groups of sixes with top speed human defense. This is the exception, not the norm. It also makes me wonder if they take into account games with human goalies that start AND finish games. Usually one of the human goalies will quit out due to all the junk goals going in.

    And I guess I'm somewhat flabbergasted that you are satisfied with the type of goals going in. They are some of the most random and frustrating goals this series had ever seen. The action in the crease isn't a benefit to the series, it's a disgrace. Telemetry or not, the goals going in this year are way too often weak shots taken across the grain as you track the puck or your own team knocking it in your own net when trying to clear the puck.

    Ben, I know you think this is a step forward, but the majority of human goalies would disagree with you. I don't know how much more plain I can say it, and with as much respect for what you have tried to do with the series, but the past two years have been a pretty big exercise in frustration for many of us.

    It just seems there are way too many animations that have been implemented in the spirit of added realism (i'm looking at you T push), that it has made even the most basic functions almost useless. When the regular post hug and basic goalie movement is rarely used by the majority of the goalie community, something is wrong.

    The Goalie needs more love. I know a good portion of the first patch was dedicated to making things better, but more is needed. Precision speed increase is a no brainer, post to post movement needs even more of a speed boost. The margin of error for across the grain shots needs to be increased to allow for you to be moving to track the skater and not get snipped far side as easily. You shouldn't balance the scores of the game on the backs of the goalies. We're already crippled enough as it is.

    Jtric

    As a veteran EASHL/OTP goalie from NHL 11 until now, I could not agree more. Perfectly stated, on all accounts.
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    aside from post to post movement and precision movement sped up a bit, I would have to disagree. Getting sniped far side is a positional mistake, that is easy to make, also easy to fix. Lets just take away all the good scoring chances shall we?

    Quicker shot recovery still top on my list. Especially for the Hybrid goalie as he is most aggressive. I want to be able to move immediately after making a save, unless of course I freeze the puck. More goalie interference penalties. Goals that would normally be waved off because of it should be a penalty.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    jtricoli wrote: »
    "We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games."

    I guess this statement really depends on how you think this game is normally played. You seem to assume the best representation of this game is groups of sixes with top speed human defense. This is the exception, not the norm. It also makes me wonder if they take into account games with human goalies that start AND finish games. Usually one of the human goalies will quit out due to all the junk goals going in.

    You missed the post a few after that where I stated how in that case that line/comment was in respect to AI goalies. He had a bullet around goalie skill so I took that as AI goalies since I felt something about User goalies would be more about control/mechanics since we don't control the skill of the User goalie obviously.

    We are also looking at User goalies but the feedback on control from the community and how they feel is more important than raw telemetry at this point. Since AI goalies are more consistent other than how the attributes impact them, telemetry tells a better story, even though in both cases the team in front can still make a massive difference -- speaking more from a general standpoint.

  • RSall14
    575 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Even though stick lift is finally fixed I believe that defense needs an agility buff. Compared to 16 my defender feels super stiff when making side to side movements in this years game.
  • We desperately need a fix for Props, flags and banners blocking the view of the defensive zone on certain cameras (Ice, Classic). I'm loving the 6s gameplay, but man does this ever kill the game.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    aside from post to post movement and precision movement sped up a bit, I would have to disagree. Getting sniped far side is a positional mistake, that is easy to make, also easy to fix. Lets just take away all the good scoring chances shall we?

    Shots across the grain from the high slot are NOT good shots. Any decent goalie should and CAN stop them, even if they're moving to track the shooter. If you consider that those are "good scoring chances", then any shot taken from anywhere on the is also a scoring chance. It's an exploit, plain and simple. And one that can easily be fixed to allowing the goalies (yes, even the AI goalies get beaten by this quite often, not just the humans) to make the correct save on that shot. Don't push the goalie away from the puck to make a save.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    jtricoli wrote: »
    "We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games."

    I guess this statement really depends on how you think this game is normally played. You seem to assume the best representation of this game is groups of sixes with top speed human defense. This is the exception, not the norm. It also makes me wonder if they take into account games with human goalies that start AND finish games. Usually one of the human goalies will quit out due to all the junk goals going in.

    You missed the post a few after that where I stated how in that case that line/comment was in respect to AI goalies. He had a bullet around goalie skill so I took that as AI goalies since I felt something about User goalies would be more about control/mechanics since we don't control the skill of the User goalie obviously.

    We are also looking at User goalies but the feedback on control from the community and how they feel is more important than raw telemetry at this point. Since AI goalies are more consistent other than how the attributes impact them, telemetry tells a better story, even though in both cases the team in front can still make a massive difference -- speaking more from a general standpoint.

    I feel like AI goalies and Human goalies are equally inconsistent. The main gripe I have is that high percentage scoring areas in this game are too easy to get to. The defense has no way to contain the player with the puck aside from standing in front of him or using his stick to knock the puck away. So it's often up to the goalies (both human and AI) to bail out the lack of defensive ability of the team in front of them. But because these HIGH PERCENTAGE scoring areas usually yield a lot of goals for the offense, it often feels like we're fighting a losing battle. There are some tricks we can use to tip the scales in our favour, but it should come down to breaking the mechanics to prevent what many perceive as "cheese" goals.

    For example, in order to defeat the "cross grain shot" from the high slot, the goalie has to remain out of position slightly and start tracking the shooter a bit later than he normally would. This maneuver however, has the unfortunate side effect of leaving your vulnerable and very flat footed if the shooter anticipates this and works the puck low for a shot at an open side that you can't cover fast enough. I used to have an example, but I can't find it right now.

    And yet, it's sometimes possible to snag shots that are almost impossible for a real goalie to save, which the AI seems to be able to do much more regularly than a human goalie.

  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    aside from post to post movement and precision movement sped up a bit, I would have to disagree. Getting sniped far side is a positional mistake, that is easy to make, also easy to fix. Lets just take away all the good scoring chances shall we?

    Shots across the grain from the high slot are NOT good shots. Any decent goalie should and CAN stop them, even if they're moving to track the shooter. If you consider that those are "good scoring chances", then any shot taken from anywhere on the is also a scoring chance. It's an exploit, plain and simple. And one that can easily be fixed to allowing the goalies (yes, even the AI goalies get beaten by this quite often, not just the humans) to make the correct save on that shot. Don't push the goalie away from the puck to make a save.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    jtricoli wrote: »
    "We are always looking at goalies but the tuning around them currently considers all of their capabilities and goal scoring balance is actually in a decent spot when you look at telemetry and goal scoring over multiple games."

    I guess this statement really depends on how you think this game is normally played. You seem to assume the best representation of this game is groups of sixes with top speed human defense. This is the exception, not the norm. It also makes me wonder if they take into account games with human goalies that start AND finish games. Usually one of the human goalies will quit out due to all the junk goals going in.

    You missed the post a few after that where I stated how in that case that line/comment was in respect to AI goalies. He had a bullet around goalie skill so I took that as AI goalies since I felt something about User goalies would be more about control/mechanics since we don't control the skill of the User goalie obviously.

    We are also looking at User goalies but the feedback on control from the community and how they feel is more important than raw telemetry at this point. Since AI goalies are more consistent other than how the attributes impact them, telemetry tells a better story, even though in both cases the team in front can still make a massive difference -- speaking more from a general standpoint.

    I feel like AI goalies and Human goalies are equally inconsistent. The main gripe I have is that high percentage scoring areas in this game are too easy to get to. The defense has no way to contain the player with the puck aside from standing in front of him or using his stick to knock the puck away. So it's often up to the goalies (both human and AI) to bail out the lack of defensive ability of the team in front of them. But because these HIGH PERCENTAGE scoring areas usually yield a lot of goals for the offense, it often feels like we're fighting a losing battle. There are some tricks we can use to tip the scales in our favour, but it should come down to breaking the mechanics to prevent what many perceive as "cheese" goals.

    For example, in order to defeat the "cross grain shot" from the high slot, the goalie has to remain out of position slightly and start tracking the shooter a bit later than he normally would.




    Or play higher in the crease. Defense has stickcheck, shot block, hitting, and backcheckers. If all that fails something is wrong defensively.

    That moving while the shot is taken needs to be dumbed down a bit if anything. But then cross creases going to be tougher to stop.
  • not sure why that whole post is in quotes.
  • jtricoli
    50 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Ben,

    Thanks for the clarification about the telemetry discussion. I just want to be rewarded for good play in net and not feel like at any moment the game is going to limit me from doing that.

    For example, the lack of precision speed means that the main strategy for a breakaway is too skate as fast as possible towards the goalie and make a quick move to either side to exploit the lack of speed we have to track the skater. The puck tracking built into the game has the goalie always stay square to the shot, which is fine in most situations where we can keep up with the speed of the play away from the net, but in close we will over rotate to square to the puck.

    Unfortunately, because we can't keep up with the skater speed, once they get parallel with our player we end up over roasting to face the puck and exposing half the net resulting in an easy goal in the side of the net. The game controlled those factors more than I did, I can't control how I rotate to face the puck and combined with the lack in speed it makes us play an overly unrealistic style of play.

    Anyway..... goalies need help, but even this simple example shows how small tweaks in one area have ramifications across the entire game. I don't envy your position.

    Jtric
  • Sall0020 wrote: »
    Even though stick lift is finally fixed I believe that defense needs an agility buff. Compared to 16 my defender feels super stiff when making side to side movements in this years game.

    Either that or a slight nerf for the puck carrier, they have too much agility now, thats more so the problem than dmens agility in my opinion. They can turn 90 degrees in a split second just by toe dragging the puck and barely losing any speed, while people without the puck have a wide arc to any turn they make at the same high speeds.

    Bottom line is the puck carriers have way too much of an advantage with the current skating tuner. The only way to combat it is to play extremely relaxed, defensive, positional hockey and let them shoot from the low percentage scoring areas and hope the goalie doesn't let it in.
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