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  • Hey could we have it where poke checks actually knock the puck away again please? Every beta, fantastic at getting the pucks loose. Every full game, ah, we shall just have the puck poked to nowhere and have the attacker simply pick it back up again carry it some more and snipe every time.

    Legit, what's so difficult with tuning how much puck control these guys have?!
  • WealthyFriends
    882 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    ......
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey Everyone -

    There is no way that I will be able to jump into all the threads today and respond to everything but I wanted everyone to know that despite not having a new account since the new forums went active until today, we have been reading and listening to everything that everyone has had to say -- Not only on these forums but all forms of social media, other sports gaming sites, reddit, twitter, facebook, you name it.

    On top of that, there are people that send summaries of the most pressing and talked about issues from the most active channels so there isn't too much that slips by and we have continued to have an ongoing chat with the Gamechangers group on a daily basis.

    That said, I completely understand that you don't want to assume something is read and also want the opportunity for back and forth discussion. Believe me, I have wanted to get a new account going since these forums went live as the timing around the forums going down was not ideal at all when we had decent communication going back and forth heading into launch and had a lot to say about the new game, what we saw from the Beta and all of the work we were able to get onto disc and into the first patch that was available for Day 0.

    As you have seen, our latest patch went up today and along with a few other big fixes, it fixed the stick lift issue that was introduced in the Day 0 patch. Believe it or not, it was a knock on to trying to fix an issue seen during the Beta regarding high sticking penalties. We looked to see if we could fix it through a tuner in the meantime but it unfortunately needed code.

    To be able to get the fixes in this update out, we had to prioritize them above everything else to even get them to you this soon. I know you would have liked to see them fixed sooner but that is just an example of the time it takes and why the list isn't bigger this time around.

    That said, these aren't the only issues we have been tracking or looking at. We are also looking at a new tuner and potential content updates for the future but can't confirm anything at this point.

    For the tuner, we are tracking issues such as goalie precision movement speed, a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck lost to a pokecheck or incidental contact, goalie rebound control, deflections and a few other things. There are some other issues that have been brought up by the community that require code but you can be sure that there has at least been investigation of the top issues that have been called out across all modes.

    As before, we can't confirm anything as being fixed or that it will be a part of the game until it is but we will be transparent when we can be. In other cases, continue to work through the gamechangers if you don't feel like your voice is being heard directly and continue to post on these forums and other social channels knowing that we do read everything and take all of the feedback very seriously.


    Thanks.

    - Ben

    Hey Ben, thanks for taking time to post that you guys are actively reading the forums! Here I have a clip of something that I posted after when you would have read my thread on human goalie animations.
    http://imgur.com/yg65vYf
    This "curve shot" has been around for a while and has always bothered me because if the player needed to rotate to shoot the puck realistically my goalie would have been able to get further over and make a save on it. To be honest goal line shots or any shots below the bottom of the circle are far to accurate as I know if I shoot from between there and the goal line I will hit the net 9 out of 10 times which is way way to often. That angle is one of the hardest shots to hit in hockey.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    That is why we also make you accountable on the shooting side ensuring you have less accuracy if you shoot before settling (after skating/deking/making a move, etc.) or if you shoot at a less than ideal angle where you don't get good leverage.

    But Ben, shooting after a toe drag on a breakaway is a 100% goal right now, even though the logic you just articulated should make those shots go wide -- or at the goalie, rather than top shelf -- a significant percentage of the time. If in fact the game is tuned to make shooters less accurate when they shoot immediately after deking, why does every toe-drag-to-shot in high-level games end up top corner?

    Is this the toe drag deke where the puck is pulled inside? Or is this the toe drag where the skater is gliding and maneuvering the right stick where the puck is up on the toe of the stick?

    This shot:



    This one is even more absurd, since shooter is being bumped from behind and drags his stick through defender's stick, and still puts it exactly where he's aiming. But anyway, if you know what you're doing, this is pretty much gold -- look at how the goalie doesn't even track the puck and move to his left.
    and you don't even mention the part about the puck flying off the stick with no backswing.

    This certainly could be much better, especially around the shot release and with the edition of legs blocking/displacing sticks.

    In reality if this player drove in like this, unless the body on body contact was limiting him, which is this case, it wasn't enough to, his outer leg would prevent that stick from coming inside in the first place.

    We don't recognize this and 'decide the deke should win' and some of those other theories that have been mentioned in this thread but we did add recognition of a pokecheck or sticklift passing through part of the players body before making contact with the stick. This allows us to not allow the stick on stick contact in these cases to make up for not stopping the stick from getting there in the first place.

    That way, it also doesn't always have to trigger a trip or a high stick if the contact is more subtle and/or with less force/leverage but still won't be successful for the defensive player that doesn't have a good position/angle to make the play.

    On the puck control side, along with the physics conditions for a puck to be lost, we do have something that recognizes when a puck is more than 'x' distance (tuneable) from the stick to release it regardless so that we don't get cases like that shot. It is possible that something in how the puck is keyed in that shot release (possibly already comes off the blade in the animation) that the puck doesn't get far enough away from where the game is recognizing as possession. This as I said, should definitely be better and I will look into it more. Incidental contact can stop a player from getting where they intend or hold an arm back stopping the player from getting their stick to where they need to and that is what causes incidental puck loss at times too. In this case, that would have been better than seeing this shot.

    With all that in mind, if it is just the shot animation that is the issue, the puck could have travelled, while in control, closer to the stick on the pull over and the shot just would have occurred a foot more away. Possibly giving the goalie more of a chance but might have been a goal anyways and not looked like 'videogame magic' on the shot release.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Hey could we have it where poke checks actually knock the puck away again please? Every beta, fantastic at getting the pucks loose. Every full game, ah, we shall just have the puck poked to nowhere and have the attacker simply pick it back up again carry it some more and snipe every time.

    Legit, what's so difficult with tuning how much puck control these guys have?!

    This is where all changes have an impact on other areas of the game. One of the biggest issues in the Beta was still the inability to pick up pucks. The fixes has led to more coverage for puck pickups for all players in and around their feet and tight to their body.

    For the next tuner, we are looking at a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck after pokecheck and incidental stick puck loss. Rather than reacting on the dime, it will be more believable that they weren't anticipating losing the loose puck to start attempting to get it back right away. This ability will also vary based on a players attribute ratings so you will see players that are higher skilled reacting quicker than those that don't have as great puck skills.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    stevey1219 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey Everyone -

    There is no way that I will be able to jump into all the threads today and respond to everything but I wanted everyone to know that despite not having a new account since the new forums went active until today, we have been reading and listening to everything that everyone has had to say -- Not only on these forums but all forms of social media, other sports gaming sites, reddit, twitter, facebook, you name it.

    On top of that, there are people that send summaries of the most pressing and talked about issues from the most active channels so there isn't too much that slips by and we have continued to have an ongoing chat with the Gamechangers group on a daily basis.

    That said, I completely understand that you don't want to assume something is read and also want the opportunity for back and forth discussion. Believe me, I have wanted to get a new account going since these forums went live as the timing around the forums going down was not ideal at all when we had decent communication going back and forth heading into launch and had a lot to say about the new game, what we saw from the Beta and all of the work we were able to get onto disc and into the first patch that was available for Day 0.

    As you have seen, our latest patch went up today and along with a few other big fixes, it fixed the stick lift issue that was introduced in the Day 0 patch. Believe it or not, it was a knock on to trying to fix an issue seen during the Beta regarding high sticking penalties. We looked to see if we could fix it through a tuner in the meantime but it unfortunately needed code.

    To be able to get the fixes in this update out, we had to prioritize them above everything else to even get them to you this soon. I know you would have liked to see them fixed sooner but that is just an example of the time it takes and why the list isn't bigger this time around.

    That said, these aren't the only issues we have been tracking or looking at. We are also looking at a new tuner and potential content updates for the future but can't confirm anything at this point.

    For the tuner, we are tracking issues such as goalie precision movement speed, a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck lost to a pokecheck or incidental contact, goalie rebound control, deflections and a few other things. There are some other issues that have been brought up by the community that require code but you can be sure that there has at least been investigation of the top issues that have been called out across all modes.

    As before, we can't confirm anything as being fixed or that it will be a part of the game until it is but we will be transparent when we can be. In other cases, continue to work through the gamechangers if you don't feel like your voice is being heard directly and continue to post on these forums and other social channels knowing that we do read everything and take all of the feedback very seriously.


    Thanks.

    - Ben

    Hey Ben, thanks for taking time to post that you guys are actively reading the forums! Here I have a clip of something that I posted after when you would have read my thread on human goalie animations.
    http://imgur.com/yg65vYf
    This "curve shot" has been around for a while and has always bothered me because if the player needed to rotate to shoot the puck realistically my goalie would have been able to get further over and make a save on it. To be honest goal line shots or any shots below the bottom of the circle are far to accurate as I know if I shoot from between there and the goal line I will hit the net 9 out of 10 times which is way way to often. That angle is one of the hardest shots to hit in hockey.

    Yes, I agree with this for sure. Shot animations and the allowed release angles and the quality of the shot you get are things we want to look further into.
  • Dear NHLDev
    Please, I'm begging you to just take a look and send me some feedback on this question:

    I'll start off by saying I live in Vancouver, BC, and I've been playing EASHL since it started in 09. I've played through the days of Visitor Team Lag (NHL 11), Home Team Lag (NHL 12 & 13), and the notorious Home Team Captain Lag (NHL 16). I'm pretty sensitive to lag and there's definitely something wrong with this game right now.
    In NHL 17 I'm either playing on West Servers (10-16ms) or East Servers (44-50ms). The strange thing is, sometimes I get playable games on East Servers, and sometimes they are AWFUL and they're ALWAYS (44-50ms). The same goes for West Servers. Even though they're always 10-16ms, most of the time I get really smooth games but sometimes I'll get games that lag hard just like the Home Team Captain Lag situation from last year.
    The interesting thing is that it's not just the home team captain that's affected this year. It seems to be random (maybe because the Captain in the dressing room remains the Captain in the player build screen this year rather than the captain being selected between screens based on connection).
    I'd love for an EADev to chime in on this because this is really ruining the game for me. And please don't say it's my connection because it 100% is not.
    Thanks in advance for any response.
  • If you are the real Ben, take a took at these:

    Yes it does say Member and not Moderator!!! Good point!!
  • If you are the real Ben, take a took at these:

    Yes it does say Member and not Moderator!!! Good point!!

    It was already explained that this is the REAL deal; it is BEN ROSS. The account just doesn't have the proper TAG attached to it.
  • Hey Ben,

    What is the difference between authentic hustle and speed burst? I've tried both but I didn't notice a difference.

    Thx
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    If you are the real Ben, take a took at these:

    Yes it does say Member and not Moderator!!! Good point!!

    It was already explained that this is the REAL deal; it is BEN ROSS. The account just doesn't have the proper TAG attached to it.

    You can feel it from body language too hah
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    If you are the real Ben, take a took at these:

    Yes it does say Member and not Moderator!!! Good point!!

    It was already explained that this is the REAL deal; it is BEN ROSS. The account just doesn't have the proper TAG attached to it.

    You can feel it from body language too hah

    Haha... But yeah, I figured he was the real deal by the way he posts his messages.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    stevey1219 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey Everyone -

    There is no way that I will be able to jump into all the threads today and respond to everything but I wanted everyone to know that despite not having a new account since the new forums went active until today, we have been reading and listening to everything that everyone has had to say -- Not only on these forums but all forms of social media, other sports gaming sites, reddit, twitter, facebook, you name it.

    On top of that, there are people that send summaries of the most pressing and talked about issues from the most active channels so there isn't too much that slips by and we have continued to have an ongoing chat with the Gamechangers group on a daily basis.

    That said, I completely understand that you don't want to assume something is read and also want the opportunity for back and forth discussion. Believe me, I have wanted to get a new account going since these forums went live as the timing around the forums going down was not ideal at all when we had decent communication going back and forth heading into launch and had a lot to say about the new game, what we saw from the Beta and all of the work we were able to get onto disc and into the first patch that was available for Day 0.

    As you have seen, our latest patch went up today and along with a few other big fixes, it fixed the stick lift issue that was introduced in the Day 0 patch. Believe it or not, it was a knock on to trying to fix an issue seen during the Beta regarding high sticking penalties. We looked to see if we could fix it through a tuner in the meantime but it unfortunately needed code.

    To be able to get the fixes in this update out, we had to prioritize them above everything else to even get them to you this soon. I know you would have liked to see them fixed sooner but that is just an example of the time it takes and why the list isn't bigger this time around.

    That said, these aren't the only issues we have been tracking or looking at. We are also looking at a new tuner and potential content updates for the future but can't confirm anything at this point.

    For the tuner, we are tracking issues such as goalie precision movement speed, a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck lost to a pokecheck or incidental contact, goalie rebound control, deflections and a few other things. There are some other issues that have been brought up by the community that require code but you can be sure that there has at least been investigation of the top issues that have been called out across all modes.

    As before, we can't confirm anything as being fixed or that it will be a part of the game until it is but we will be transparent when we can be. In other cases, continue to work through the gamechangers if you don't feel like your voice is being heard directly and continue to post on these forums and other social channels knowing that we do read everything and take all of the feedback very seriously.


    Thanks.

    - Ben

    Hey Ben, thanks for taking time to post that you guys are actively reading the forums! Here I have a clip of something that I posted after when you would have read my thread on human goalie animations.
    http://imgur.com/yg65vYf
    This "curve shot" has been around for a while and has always bothered me because if the player needed to rotate to shoot the puck realistically my goalie would have been able to get further over and make a save on it. To be honest goal line shots or any shots below the bottom of the circle are far to accurate as I know if I shoot from between there and the goal line I will hit the net 9 out of 10 times which is way way to often. That angle is one of the hardest shots to hit in hockey.

    Yes, I agree with this for sure. Shot animations and the allowed release angles and the quality of the shot you get are things we want to look further into.

    Alright thanks I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of it. On another note, for human goalie precision movement have you guys thought of making the movement speed adjustable for us? Sort of like how you can change pass assist for players. Then we'd be able to choose a speed we like without giving an unfair advantage to anyone, for example if you chose (say 0-100 scale like Pass assist) 100 you can move very fast but obviously if you are to jumpy you can put yourself out of position.
  • Curious to see anyone's thoughts on this video. Aside from it being a terrible time for a stick lift, the stick never appears to make contact with the opposing skater. Is this a delay issue or is it catching the notorious bubble that players seem to have around them. Thought it was pretty funny as sometimes players will embellish, never thought id see it in a video game. Thoughts?

    youtu.be/nwzB-UqdZUA
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey could we have it where poke checks actually knock the puck away again please? Every beta, fantastic at getting the pucks loose. Every full game, ah, we shall just have the puck poked to nowhere and have the attacker simply pick it back up again carry it some more and snipe every time.

    Legit, what's so difficult with tuning how much puck control these guys have?!

    This is where all changes have an impact on other areas of the game. One of the biggest issues in the Beta was still the inability to pick up pucks. The fixes has led to more coverage for puck pickups for all players in and around their feet and tight to their body.

    For the next tuner, we are looking at a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck after pokecheck and incidental stick puck loss. Rather than reacting on the dime, it will be more believable that they weren't anticipating losing the loose puck to start attempting to get it back right away. This ability will also vary based on a players attribute ratings so you will see players that are higher skilled reacting quicker than those that don't have as great puck skills.

    This would be fantastic if you pull it off properly!

    I often hear "A GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAY BY ****", after a good poke, and the puck never even left the stick of the offensive player. And when you do it gets picked up, or when you get it way clear of the player, it goes against all laws of physics to the next enemy players tape.

    This is probably the most frustrating thing with the game after server stability.
    Why cant you comment on servers/matchmaking/netcode?
    FURY-69-.png
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Hey could we have it where poke checks actually knock the puck away again please? Every beta, fantastic at getting the pucks loose. Every full game, ah, we shall just have the puck poked to nowhere and have the attacker simply pick it back up again carry it some more and snipe every time.

    Legit, what's so difficult with tuning how much puck control these guys have?!

    This is where all changes have an impact on other areas of the game. One of the biggest issues in the Beta was still the inability to pick up pucks. The fixes has led to more coverage for puck pickups for all players in and around their feet and tight to their body.

    For the next tuner, we are looking at a puck carriers ability to react quickly to reacquire a puck after pokecheck and incidental stick puck loss. Rather than reacting on the dime, it will be more believable that they weren't anticipating losing the loose puck to start attempting to get it back right away. This ability will also vary based on a players attribute ratings so you will see players that are higher skilled reacting quicker than those that don't have as great puck skills.

    This would be fantastic if you pull it off properly!

    I often hear "A GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAY BY ****", after a good poke, and the puck never even left the stick of the offensive player. And when you do it gets picked up, or when you get it way clear of the player, it goes against all laws of physics to the next enemy players tape.

    This is probably the most frustrating thing with the game after server stability.
    Why cant you comment on servers/matchmaking/netcode?

    Ben is a gameplay producer, not an online guy, he may not know the answers to the online questions. It technically isn't his job.
  • In my Franchise, I can score 10 goals and the other teams goalie that started plays the entire game. Not once has the backup came in after any amount of goals against. I'm playing on PS4 btw.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1300 posts Member
    edited October 2016

    Ben is a gameplay producer, not an online guy, he may not know the answers to the online questions. It technically isn't his job.

    Even so, you'd think he could present the question to the dev team members who know, and then come back with answers, no? It's called communication, but I know it's not their forte.

    I feel it's fairly futile discussing online mode's gameplay issues, until they get the online connections to a decent level. Because that has a huge effect on gameplay.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    If this is the case, I feel that puck control should be maintained for only a short window of time. Possibly 1-2 seconds worth of animation frames, and then puck control should take a nose-dive.

    This would mean using the right stick in conjunction with glide would still result in highly accurate wrist shots/passes, but would also mean you'd need to get the shot/pass off right away or else you're at risk for losing the puck almost instantaneously.

    This would force users to re-enter skating animations rather than just holding the puck to the side and gliding around.

    Yes, please.

    The puck control is lower as you are deking, so right at the moment you first move the puck to one side, it is a bit lower and if you keep deking back and forth it is lower and lower (with the effect depending on attributes).

    If you have the puck over on your forehand in a glide, you have decent balance and good puck control. That is why settling into a glide allows for shot accuracy but if you quickly deke over, it can have an impact on your shot. Rolling way back isn't as balanced of a position and it has an impact on your shot as well and a backhand in nature isn't as good as a forehand shot.

    A player gliding has more balance than a skating player so you need a bit more relative speed in the collision to knock them off balance/over but pushing a player away from the puck will make it harder for them to control. If you just hit them incidentally or only get them to stumble slightly, they can keep control of the puck.

    The bigger issue is the lateral acceleration or speed that is kept when turning tight when in a glide. That is something we are looking at. The tuning we have looked at so far though has hurt lateral accel where you can't turn as sharp -- that isn't what we want. You should be able to turn based on your players abilities but just lose the correct amount of speed based on how much you are carving off.

    I understand the principle, but in practice it doesn't always turn out that way:

    http://xboxclips.com/VeNOM2O99/721cd96e-fad5-448a-9652-9b1823180a6c

    As you can see, deke into shot, goal. No gliding. This type of deke is probably the most prevalent method of scoring online right now. It works at an alarmingly high rate of success. Now that was with Couture in HUT. I've also pulled it off with a Defensive Defenseman in Club games on EASHL. And one of them I managed to lodge it top corner off the deke, on a backhand shot. Dekes into shots are too accurate.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    jtricoli wrote: »
    Ben,

    Thanks for the clarification about the telemetry discussion. I just want to be rewarded for good play in net and not feel like at any moment the game is going to limit me from doing that.

    For example, the lack of precision speed means that the main strategy for a breakaway is too skate as fast as possible towards the goalie and make a quick move to either side to exploit the lack of speed we have to track the skater. The puck tracking built into the game has the goalie always stay square to the shot, which is fine in most situations where we can keep up with the speed of the play away from the net, but in close we will over rotate to square to the puck.

    Unfortunately, because we can't keep up with the skater speed, once they get parallel with our player we end up over roasting to face the puck and exposing half the net resulting in an easy goal in the side of the net. The game controlled those factors more than I did, I can't control how I rotate to face the puck and combined with the lack in speed it makes us play an overly unrealistic style of play.

    Anyway..... goalies need help, but even this simple example shows how small tweaks in one area have ramifications across the entire game. I don't envy your position.

    Jtric

    Yes, we are looking at the speed for a next tuner. Have you tried using the butterfly to post hug once the shooter commits and using the slide into the butterfly post lean to take away the side they commit to?

    If you drop to butterfly early, you can get burned for sure but that is often the case in any game of hockey.

    I realize matched with seeing something on screen and reacting compared to doing it reactive on real ice is different but I am curious how the slides into post lean work for you or not. I know some goalies are using those and the rs slides fairly well.

    I've been encountering a problem with slides off a post lean, in that when I'm about to get to the other post, my goalie will stop dead in his tracks and leave a foot wide gap between his foot and the post:

    http://xboxclips.com/VeNOM2O99/9ae01de0-d260-4121-a868-efd81ba3cac3

    Also, can we do something about the suicidal AI?

    http://xboxclips.com/VeNOM2O99/9aaf697a-0118-4fbd-a529-41e4dcbeec98

    Think that was a fluke? Nope...

    http://xboxclips.com/VeNOM2O99/effc49a5-07d5-4b36-b768-14bb692070eb

    Also... Wow... Just wow! I couldn't stop laughing when this happened. Though I'm really crying on the inside. :tongue:

    http://xboxclips.com/VeNOM2O99/aa432104-183a-46a3-bdb6-a2111c774ee2

    Can we goalies PLEASE cover the puck?

    How does ea take this guy seriously? He says shot deke and the guy doesn't glide. 🎃🎃🎃🎃? When you go into that deke, it puts you into a glide. It's still a glide.

    Unless that kind of glide gets removed from the equation, I don't get what his guy is showing in that first video.
  • Did the producer guy go into hiding again?
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