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  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer



    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »

    Ben is a gameplay producer, not an online guy, he may not know the answers to the online questions. It technically isn't his job.

    Even so, you'd think he could present the question to the dev team members who know, and then come back with answers, no? It's called communication, but I know it's not their forte.

    I feel it's fairly futile discussing online mode's gameplay issues, until they get the online connections to a decent level. Because that has a huge effect on gameplay.

    To be honest, the only real part of my job in relation to these forums is to be able to listen to community feedback and take that into consideration with all of the other forms of user experience testing we do and the telemetry we capture and use that as part of the process to inform decisions in gameplay balance, tuning and future work/features. I choose to visit the forums myself rather than read the reports because I feel I get a better core understanding of the discussion rather than just reading issue bullets.

    I also choose to write on these forums because I enjoy talking about the game, want people to know they are heard and in some cases to dispel conspiracy theories if I feel it will guide future discussions towards better suggestions and feedback rather than further speculation about things that are not true. And that is coming form someone that loves conspiracy theories.

    If a post on these forums relates to another area, the first thing I do is copy it and send it to that areas producer to ensure they are aware of it. If I am curious about something myself, I will often engage in the conversation about it -- for example, I was speculating myself why one game a 15ms connection may feel good for someone and then the next eashl game they have at 15ms may not feel as good. Personally, I haven't felt that difference at home -- If I notice the connection isn't as good, it is normally due to a higher average ping but all in all connections have been really good for me this year so I can only take what other people are saying and try to understand what they are feeling/seeing.

    I haven't had any discussions with the online engineers first hand about these topics yet so I don't have any info about my theories or any responses from their side at this time but the online producer is aware of what people have asked and now has the opportunity to discuss with his team and look into the issues.
  • The_B_0_G
    593 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Hey Ben

    Any thoughts on why block in fighting isn't working this year? Only the dodge works. Are you guys aware of this?
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    To be honest, the only real part of my job in relation to these forums is to be able to listen to community feedback and take that into consideration with all of the other forms of user experience testing we do and the telemetry we capture and use that as part of the process to inform decisions in gameplay balance, tuning and future work/features. I choose to visit the forums myself rather than read the reports because I feel I get a better core understanding of the discussion rather than just reading issue bullets.

    I also choose to write on these forums because I enjoy talking about the game, want people to know they are heard and in some cases to dispel conspiracy theories if I feel it will guide future discussions towards better suggestions and feedback rather than further speculation about things that are not true. And that is coming form someone that loves conspiracy theories.

    If a post on these forums relates to another area, the first thing I do is copy it and send it to that areas producer to ensure they are aware of it. If I am curious about something myself, I will often engage in the conversation about it -- for example, I was speculating myself why one game a 15ms connection may feel good for someone and then the next eashl game they have at 15ms may not feel as good. Personally, I haven't felt that difference at home -- If I notice the connection isn't as good, it is normally due to a higher average ping but all in all connections have been really good for me this year so I can only take what other people are saying and try to understand what they are feeling/seeing.

    I haven't had any discussions with the online engineers first hand about these topics yet so I don't have any info about my theories or any responses from their side at this time but the online producer is aware of what people have asked and now has the opportunity to discuss with his team and look into the issues.

    It's good that you do, and I am sure we all appreciate it, but at the same time it seems unfair that you're the only conduit to the devs we have on this forum. That's not fair to you nor us. And I guess it's not realistic to expect you can respond to all questions, as there are so many of them and of various topics.

    But online experience would seem to me to be the top priority, because of HUT and EASHL etc. I would think the dev team did all they could to 'fix' it, as it seems to be riddled with issues. Yet, we've heard nothing of this. I've read elsewhere that the team has been unable to replicate some of the issues people have which seems odd. One would think you'd have the tools to monitor this sort of thing?
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »

    It's good that you do, and I am sure we all appreciate it, but at the same time it seems unfair that you're the only conduit to the devs we have on this forum. That's not fair to you nor us. And I guess it's not realistic to expect you can respond to all questions, as there are so many of them and of various topics.

    But online experience would seem to me to be the top priority, because of HUT and EASHL etc. I would think the dev team did all they could to 'fix' it, as it seems to be riddled with issues. Yet, we've heard nothing of this. I've read elsewhere that the team has been unable to replicate some of the issues people have which seems odd. One would think you'd have the tools to monitor this sort of thing?

    We do have the tools and we are able to track the game sessions, etc.. We get crash reports, telemetry, you name it. That said, unlike gameplay, where the shot code is the same for everyone, and if someone finds something, we can test it out and find it, the connection that someone has, their isp, the users connected in that particular session, what their brother was downloading upstairs, etc. etc. can all change the online experience.

    I am not saying those things to say that problems are all on the user side, just to say that it isn't apples to apples as there are more variables than just the code.

    We work closely with the gamechangers on certain issues as well.

    More than anything, when the online team has come on these forums in the past, it has only been frustrating for people as they can tell you they are working on something and getting info from people that have issues and trying to monitor their accounts to look for leads, etc. but until something is fixed, they don't really have much to say. On the gameplay side, we can discuss theories around controls, talk about the subjectivity of exploits, etc.. It just isn't really the same for online.

    What specifically would you want to know about the online experience that you aren't getting?

  • Well, to begin with - the connection quality bar and screen. How's one to read it? When it says connection quality is 'good' what does it mean, is it referring to your own connection, or does it apply to the opponent's as well, or a combo of these? Would it be possible to have more precise information about your connection and the opponents connection separately, it would make it easier to determine at whose end the issue lies, if connection isn't perfect?

    Then there's the 'fat man' lag experience, is this something you've been able to duplicate? Because on this forum some members even doubt this exist and claim never having encountered. I guess it's somewhat subjective and hard to prove in videos alone.

    Then there's the HUT related complaint some Swedish and UK players have toward us Finnish players, namely that their connection is always super-laggy and unresponsive with Finnish opponents running circles around them. There's a whole thread about this in the HUT section. I tried playing a couple games against Uk player (being a Finn) and there were issues, but the sluggishness was all on my side. But that was invite a friend type of game in HUT and vs., so I am not sure if it counts.

    Those I can think of for starters, I haven't really played HUT online, mainly EASHL.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Do you experience that sluggish feeling in EASHL only or do you also experience it in peer to peer games? And if so in peer to peer games, is it only when the ping time is high?



  • Mostly EASHL, but like I said I haven't played HUT much yet, in fact one game outside invite a friend. It was laggy but with clear stuttering and ping curve had nasty jumps here and there, so it was just 'regular' bad connection in that case.

    In the two or three invite a friend HUT games, I just there was no jerkiness at all, pretty smooth, but I was always late, slow and with bad puck control. And curiously with one fight, I couldn't land a single punch.

    I will be playing more HUT now, and I am sure others will be able to chime in with their experiences.

    Oh yeah, in many EASHL games I have encountered a situation where the net battle (triangle button) just doesn't work, even if I was in correct position to an opponent, and in front of goal. Just no effect, not even the instigation which you usually get when you press the button only momentarily. Is this known thing?
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    We intentionally didn't want net battles to feel sticky like they did on last gen with set 2 player animations that forced the other player to take part. It could be that the other player is leaving at just enough of an angle that you can't tie them up/hold them up. We want to improve the assistance now that we know the exits can work as expected so that a player doesn't have to commit as much to engage in situations like that.

    Out of curiosity, have you tried extended stick lifts by holding the stick lift button down like you do Y/Triangle for net battles? And if so, have you had more success with those solving/engaging than net battles?
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1300 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Maybe so, but I remember that the opponents were just standing there and not moving. Have to pay more attention.

    I learned the habit of not using x for stick lift, extended or otherwise, since it was reported to be buggy. So I've got to re-learn to use it. I have managed the extended stick lift a couple of times in EASHL, as I recall. But I can't say if they occurred in same game as the non-functioning net battle or not. Have to keep an eye on this as well. I do play d-men a lot.
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Ok thanks. If you feel you get more info and/or have more feedback, we are all ears.
  • Sure, thanks for your time and interest! :)
  • To me the X button extended stick lift success rate is much higher then the triangle tie up button. This is for offline and also EASHL. I'll try the triangle button and it does nothing, then I will hold X and it works.
  • WRX02227 wrote: »
    To me the X button extended stick lift success rate is much higher then the triangle tie up button. This is for offline and also EASHL. I'll try the triangle button and it does nothing, then I will hold X and it works.

    I get stick tie up to work almost every time but I haven't gotten triangle tie up once yet.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1300 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an idiot for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    EXACTLY! I notice this most when on the breakout, pass to me going wide, and my guy goes offside trying to automatically reach/skate for the puck even when I'm pulling back to stay onside... Frustrating...
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Foofeenue wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    EXACTLY! I notice this most when on the breakout, pass to me going wide, and my guy goes offside trying to automatically reach/skate for the puck even when I'm pulling back to stay onside... Frustrating...

    We would like to add skate drag pickups similar to how the skate drags work in the right context right now when you let up.

    When you get pulled into the pickup attempt, it is after the pickup has already solved in most cases. Right now, we can branch pickups to other pickup types based on input changes for example, changing a glide into a turning pickup to keep momentum through a puck but once a pickup has tried to solve, we aren't really doing anything to help you cancel it. If you are pretty deliberate, you can avoid picking up though -- I am sure you have seen people do this by skating around an oncoming player looking to hit them when they expect they are going to pickup a loose puck -- but if you get within range, the pickup will try to solve.

    The other thing we have talked about adding is a dummy button to let a pass through which could also be used to 'not pickup the puck' in cases where you want to cancel the pickup or not attempt one in the first place.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    We would like to add skate drag pickups similar to how the skate drags work in the right context right now when you let up.

    When you get pulled into the pickup attempt, it is after the pickup has already solved in most cases. Right now, we can branch pickups to other pickup types based on input changes for example, changing a glide into a turning pickup to keep momentum through a puck but once a pickup has tried to solve, we aren't really doing anything to help you cancel it. If you are pretty deliberate, you can avoid picking up though -- I am sure you have seen people do this by skating around an oncoming player looking to hit them when they expect they are going to pickup a loose puck -- but if you get within range, the pickup will try to solve.

    The other thing we have talked about adding is a dummy button to let a pass through which could also be used to 'not pickup the puck' in cases where you want to cancel the pickup or not attempt one in the first place.
    For the most part I think the pickups are better this year. We have more control now with the addition of the ones where your player adjusts his stick while you still have control over your skating, as compared to last year where the pickup completely removes control from the user for the duration of the animation.

    The worst cases are still the ones where you are head manning the puck to someone who is right near the blueline, you often still get a pickup that you can't control and that player will skate offside trying to position himself to receive the pass.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Foofeenue wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    EXACTLY! I notice this most when on the breakout, pass to me going wide, and my guy goes offside trying to automatically reach/skate for the puck even when I'm pulling back to stay onside... Frustrating...

    We would like to add skate drag pickups similar to how the skate drags work in the right context right now when you let up.

    When you get pulled into the pickup attempt, it is after the pickup has already solved in most cases. Right now, we can branch pickups to other pickup types based on input changes for example, changing a glide into a turning pickup to keep momentum through a puck but once a pickup has tried to solve, we aren't really doing anything to help you cancel it. If you are pretty deliberate, you can avoid picking up though -- I am sure you have seen people do this by skating around an oncoming player looking to hit them when they expect they are going to pickup a loose puck -- but if you get within range, the pickup will try to solve.

    The other thing we have talked about adding is a dummy button to let a pass through which could also be used to 'not pickup the puck' in cases where you want to cancel the pickup or not attempt one in the first place.

    I understand the logic behind what you are saying. But there is another issue we are referring to not related to going off side due to a pass reception/puckpick up sequence in progress. I believe it was in relation to my character in my own D zone while another teammate currently has the puck and the breakout is initiating. It seems for some of us the game/AI is registering "breakout" and skating our players to their designated breakout spots as per our Strategies Setup on its own. It seems to only happen when my player is receiving zero input from my controller on my end, that's when the game takes over.

    Also, a dummy option would be great. I swear in NHL 17 I saw an AI player jump over a puck to let a pass go to a teammate in the Neutral Zone one and only time, but I remember thinking how cool it was.
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