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NHL 20 Patch Details April 3rd

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  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    I made a thread on this as well. The game has to be treating us like an AI for the second or so this happens. This usually happens to me when another teammate is breaking out with the puck in our own end. Annoying as hell that this is not fixed this year. Pretty sure I remember a dev commenting on this exact issue on the old forums.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    Sall0020 wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    I made a thread on this as well. The game has to be treating us like an AI for the second or so this happens. This usually happens to me when another teammate is breaking out with the puck in our own end. Annoying as **** that this is not fixed this year. Pretty sure I remember a dev commenting on this exact issue on the old forums.

    Yes, I commented on it last year as I ran into once in the live environment when player locked as well. It is a very hard case to repro. We made some changes around breakouts and didn't see it in our testing and I personally haven't run into it this year so we thought it went away with the breakout changes... Obviously that isn't the case.

    I will talk to our QA team again to see about getting a repro case. I too feel that it has something to do with the breakout logic and the AI vs human control but that hasn't been proven yet.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Sall0020 wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am at home now, so this isn't from an expert opinion in online but from what I know the connection bar is your own. In peer to peer games, this should be the same for both players. If you are playing EASHL, it is your connection to the server you are connecting to.

    Forgot to ask about this, but if in EASHL the connection bar is your connection to the server, how is it measured? Is it an average of all players on your side, is it the lowest speed of any of your player connections or what? Or is it just your personal connection (just like in HUT except that is pvp)?

    And what happens if your team's connection to the server is good, but the opponent's is bad? How does the game compensate for the slower team? Stands to reason one side or another would be affected negatively?

    Oh, and in EASHL sometimes your player does stuff or moves in a certain direction even though you're not touching your pad, what's the cause of that (is this a known issue)?

    My goodness. So happy to hear someone else acknowledge it. I swear I brought it up numerous times on the old forums and half the people told me I was an **** for it. I have an OK video of it. I also would like a dev to comment on this. @Sgt_Kelso does it happen a lot on the breakouts for EASHL for you? That's where I see it the most

    I made a thread on this as well. The game has to be treating us like an AI for the second or so this happens. This usually happens to me when another teammate is breaking out with the puck in our own end. Annoying as **** that this is not fixed this year. Pretty sure I remember a dev commenting on this exact issue on the old forums.

    Yes, I commented on it last year as I ran into once in the live environment when player locked as well. It is a very hard case to repro. We made some changes around breakouts and didn't see it in our testing and I personally haven't run into it this year so we thought it went away with the breakout changes... Obviously that isn't the case.

    I will talk to our QA team again to see about getting a repro case. I too feel that it has something to do with the breakout logic and the AI vs human control but that hasn't been proven yet.

    Glad you're on top of it, Ben.
  • there are various scenarios where it seems like AI programming takes control of your EASHL player. i've experienced all the ones mentioned here. I've also experienced some crazy ones. For instance, i was right wing up on right boards in neutral zone but had let go of controls to wait for puck that was being carried up the left side. I was facing towards the puck (backskating) but had come to a stop. All of the sudden my guy skated towards the puck, horizontally through the neutral zone and then when he got close to puck carrier he turned and went up into offensive zone with the puck carrier... all without me touching anything. I've had dozens of similar experiences in 16 and 17 but this one was the most elaborate. Felt like maybe i should just get some popcorn and watch EA play for me.

    not to mention 1000s of faceoffs over past 2 years where i just forgot to even pick up the controller and yet my guy does some specific/random faceoff win.

    it's items like this that make me think whatever causes this might also be the cause for why sometimes it feels like i'm in a fight for control and others it feels like i have total control and everything's smooth as silk.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    KoryDub wrote: »
    I noticed there's a new animation where players lift their leg to let a pass through.

    Would be pretty cool to be able to button map that.

    Also, a dummy option would be great. I swear in NHL 17 I saw an AI player jump over a puck to let a pass go to a teammate in the Neutral Zone one and only time, but I remember thinking how cool it was.

    Yes, this was added contextually when we know the pass receiver was already targeted to be someone else and that player ends up in the lane. That way they can ensure they don't let the puck just hit them in the skate. The goal was to make it user controlled but we didn't get there yet.


  • KoryDub wrote: »
    I feel I can recreate this with some level of consistency. I'll see if I can and post videos.

    Yeah. I think I could have a few videos after a night of playing. But I think the issue that you'd have to take me at my word and believe I'm not touching my controller when I say "see. right there. my guy is skating I swear I'm not touching anything." Would need a camera for your hands as well.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    KoryDub wrote: »
    I feel I can recreate this with some level of consistency. I'll see if I can and post videos.

    Yeah. I think I could have a few videos after a night of playing. But I think the issue that you'd have to take me at my word and believe I'm not touching my controller when I say "see. right there. my guy is skating I swear I'm not touching anything." Would need a camera for your hands as well.

    If you can recreate it consistently, we would just need to know your repro steps. To fix it, we need to recreate it on a debug build so that we can see what code/function is firing to cause it. A video is good but if you can help breakdown what causes it that may lead to it (actions you are doing, strategies you are on, position you are playing, etc.) that would be really helpful because it feels extremely rare until we get those repro steps.

    Thanks.
  • Socair
    2368 posts Game Changer
    I feel there's a correlation with the seamless puck pick up animation and holding L2/LT and being in a glide or stationary. Definitely is when in your own zone and a teammate has the puck and you are in a potential pass reception position.
    NHL Series Game Changer & Volunteer Moderator
  • Are there any plans to address players freezing up after failed chop attempts? Seems to happen a lot when you go for a chop but get hit or someone picks the puck up before you can finish the animation.
  • Please don't break offense because you are unable to make a working defense. Don't listen to the people here that would turn eashl into Bob's beer league.

    Professional hockey players can do all the things that some people here cry they shouldn't be able to do. the problem is in this game while trying to defend you're basically like a guy with two left feet, a broken right arm, no hand eye coordination and blind as a bat.

    Fix defense. Start with giving them tools to defend against cuts, getting rid of animation bubbles, etc.., making stick checks/lifts work as they should and stop allowing pucks to just go straight through defenders so often (should be like 5% but currently probably closer to 50%)

    The problem isn't that people can weave through a crowd the problem is that defense can't stop them or at least take the puck away... Stop breaking what works because you can't fix what doesn't. Work on what doesn't until you get it right.

    I dont find a problem with Defense at all, aside from the inability to burst a bubble on occasion.

    Defense is the hardest position to play.

    The problem I believe is that the users believe one defensive move should be enough to get the puck. In some cases this is true, but more often then not, against good players/teams a series of defensive plays are required to get possession.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    We intentionally didn't want net battles to feel sticky like they did on last gen with set 2 player animations that forced the other player to take part. It could be that the other player is leaving at just enough of an angle that you can't tie them up/hold them up. We want to improve the assistance now that we know the exits can work as expected so that a player doesn't have to commit as much to engage in situations like that.

    Out of curiosity, have you tried extended stick lifts by holding the stick lift button down like you do Y/Triangle for net battles? And if so, have you had more success with those solving/engaging than net battles?

    Tried it and yes more successfull then triangle.
  • Please don't break offense because you are unable to make a working defense. Don't listen to the people here that would turn eashl into Bob's beer league.

    Professional hockey players can do all the things that some people here cry they shouldn't be able to do. the problem is in this game while trying to defend you're basically like a guy with two left feet, a broken right arm, no hand eye coordination and blind as a bat.

    Fix defense. Start with giving them tools to defend against cuts, getting rid of animation bubbles, etc.., making stick checks/lifts work as they should and stop allowing pucks to just go straight through defenders so often (should be like 5% but currently probably closer to 50%)

    The problem isn't that people can weave through a crowd the problem is that defense can't stop them or at least take the puck away... Stop breaking what works because you can't fix what doesn't. Work on what doesn't until you get it right.

    I dont find a problem with Defense at all, aside from the inability to burst a bubble on occasion.

    Defense is the hardest position to play.

    The problem I believe is that the users believe one defensive move should be enough to get the puck. In some cases this is true, but more often then not, against good players/teams a series of defensive plays are required to get possession.
    NHLDev wrote: »
    We intentionally didn't want net battles to feel sticky like they did on last gen with set 2 player animations that forced the other player to take part. It could be that the other player is leaving at just enough of an angle that you can't tie them up/hold them up. We want to improve the assistance now that we know the exits can work as expected so that a player doesn't have to commit as much to engage in situations like that.

    Out of curiosity, have you tried extended stick lifts by holding the stick lift button down like you do Y/Triangle for net battles? And if so, have you had more success with those solving/engaging than net battles?

    Tried it and yes more successfull then triangle.

    Stick lift tie up is the way to go, I havent gotten triangle to work once yet.
  • eric57664
    240 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Adding a dummy button to not receive a pass, I feel it is going to add problems to the game and get interference calls not being called properly and teams exploiting this.

    And then if that happens, I can see ea adjusting the distance in which an interference call becomes one and when it doesn't when someone uses this dummy button and then see that interfence calls come too often. It will basically take away from the suicide pass being a bad pass.

    If people are going to throw suicide passes, as a hitting d player, I like to stand up players that get that pass. So adjusting it would only break this. I guarantee it cuz it's ea programming this. lol.

    Be careful what you wish for. We know how other features have turned out on their first few years.
  • Too many features, not enough consistency.
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    eric57664 wrote: »
    Adding a dummy button to not receive a pass, I feel it is going to add problems to the game and get interference calls not being called properly and teams exploiting this.

    And then if that happens, I can see ea adjusting the distance in which an interference call becomes one and when it doesn't when someone uses this dummy button and then see that interfence calls come too often. It will basically take away from the suicide pass being a bad pass.

    If people are going to throw suicide passes, as a hitting d player, I like to stand up players that get that pass. So adjusting it would only break this. I guarantee it cuz it's ea programming this. lol.

    Be careful what you wish for. We know how other features have turned out on their first few years.

    Yes i can see the calls increasing, but if the puck is near the player or the player was able to play the puck and failed it should not be called interference. Which is how it should be now.
    They even seemed to take out the steamboat rule for finishing checks, to some extent. sometimes its called sometimes its not.

    Same thing with icing, if the skater slows up or the goalie leaves the crease to play it, even if he fails to touch it icing should be waved off.
  • About the unwanted / involuntary movements, I play d-man a lot and I encounter this more often there. Sometimes it's a struggle just to stay put in front of your own goal, because the idiot keeps trying to dash behind the goal all the time... or something else equally brilliant. It's like someone else was controllign my player.

    Incidentally, about net battles - would it have been impossible to map it and the extended stick lift on different buttons, like Square and Circle? It's very inconveniet to have the instigate fight function on the same button, as it often leads to unnecessary penalties. Sometimes in EASHL, it either doesn't work, or the button pressi is somehow uneven, and you get in trouble for it.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    About the unwanted / involuntary movements, I play d-man a lot and I encounter this more often there. Sometimes it's a struggle just to stay put in front of your own goal, because the **** keeps trying to dash behind the goal all the time... or something else equally brilliant. It's like someone else was controllign my player.

    Incidentally, about net battles - would it have been impossible to map it and the extended stick lift on different buttons, like Square and Circle? It's very inconveniet to have the instigate fight function on the same button, as it often leads to unnecessary penalties. Sometimes in EASHL, it either doesn't work, or the button pressi is somehow uneven, and you get in trouble for it.

    ⬛️ & ⚫️ are used for line changes. How would you do those actions when playing a single player mode like Hut?
  • Oh yes, forgot about them. Well, I guess we're stuck with the current setup then.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    About the unwanted / involuntary movements, I play d-man a lot and I encounter this more often there. Sometimes it's a struggle just to stay put in front of your own goal, because the **** keeps trying to dash behind the goal all the time... or something else equally brilliant. It's like someone else was controllign my player.

    Incidentally, about net battles - would it have been impossible to map it and the extended stick lift on different buttons, like Square and Circle? It's very inconveniet to have the instigate fight function on the same button, as it often leads to unnecessary penalties. Sometimes in EASHL, it either doesn't work, or the button pressi is somehow uneven, and you get in trouble for it.

    You are getting accidental fight requests when going for net battles?

    It feel intuitive to have a quick stick lift as a tap of stick lift where an extended one is to hold it.

    For instigate fight, we made it less quick by moving it to a multiple tap system. If you are trying to hold Triangle or Y, it shouldn't ever end up causing a fight instigate. It will also continue to try and solve a net battle as you have it held down, so you don't need to keep pressing it multiple times.

    I haven' heard of accidental fights thus far, but if that was the problem, we could make it even more specific to ask for and accept fights. We just knew that even though it was on a single press before that people would tap it fast multiple times anyways so it seemed intuitive to move it to that.
  • Sometimes I've got instigate, sometimes nothing happens when I keep the triangle pressed.

    It varies between games apparently, but as I've used the function less and less because of the issues, my obeservations aren't really current. I will try it out more in future games.
  • I and everyone I know cannot get on tonight, keep getting errors =[
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