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T-Pushes or Precision?

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So here it is, my first video in what I hope becomes a regular series which I'll dub "Venom's Crease". Obviously, the topic discussed in the video is regarding the differences between Precision Movements and Regular or T-Push movements in the game.

Let me know what you all think!

Replies

  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Content was good. Video examples were good. Clear and concise (once we realize what the video is about).

    Only problem for me is your editing skills. Alot of times you have the impression that the video is freezing but you realize it is just a pause in the video. Makes it feel jittery and laggy. Tighten up where your video segments merge and should help alot with the fluidity of the videos.

    The topic, imo, should have been more about if you do not use precision movement (regardless of on or off) then you will always be moving in t-pushes. Then explain why always moving without precision is bad and makes it near impossible to square up or get in position. Precision on or off is just a matter of preference. Do you prefer to press a trigger for precision movement, or do you prefer to press a trigger for T-pushes? In the end, it does not matter which preference you choose. They both offer the exact same possibilities but depend on different finger movement. So in essence, the video should have been more along the lines of when to use precision movement, and when to use t-pushes.

    Other than that, pretty much a good job.
  • Thanks for the feedback!

    Yeah, I noticed the jitter too, but I quickly realized it was doing that every time the puck was being carried by the defense outside the zone so it "reset" the play.

    I had two clips of 5 minutes each in practice mode using both types of movements and in almost every segment there were pauses like that. I decided to just leave them in as is (there's only like 2 pauses) and get the video published quickly as I wanted to get a word in right after the tuner came out.

    My next video is going to be a tutorial for how to move around and stay in position, and it's mostly going to be using practice mode footage again, so I'll keep your suggestions in mind.
  • Good luck for your video series. :)
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Thanks guys. Really looking forward to help the Goalie community move forward.
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    If you're not using Default controls and using both T push and Percision combos you are gimping yourself as a Goalie. T pushes tend to be a bit clunky but that's usually side to side. T pushes are a must use when on the post and the puck comes out to the high slot/ point. Percision movement is extremely important to use to track the shooter/puck carrier. Also, its important to maintaining the proper angle for when you need to use T push to gain depth on a shot.

    You speak of hybrid control system. They have all the tools you need now to have that system. It's just manual. Be it may, one tool might be a little clunkier than the other. The tools are there. I promise you if you start to flirt with the default combo system they have you'll start to see the benefits of playing this style a lot. It has a lot of moving parts but the saves you dream of making or want to make in this game will start to happen. More time and practice is all that's needed.

    To many people are stuck in the old ways. Is it fair that we Goalies need to do more than a forward? No that's why it's way more glorifing to play goalie and play well. It's straight up HARD.

    I challenge all Goalies to get out there and try using both tools. Find out if you like Percision on or off. I find off allows for a faster Percision but sometimes your T pushes aren't as smooth since holding L2 to toggle Percision off allows you to be set prior to moving so it's a bit more accurate.

    It's an evolving game. The days of 6'8" goaltenders are over. Sitting way back using size over movement, angles, vision and skill are done. Get up off your **** and get a little aggressive on your reads people. Live a little.
    Post edited by SilentCricket26 on
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Thanks for the reply.

    Well, let me answer that by asking you a question. What do you think is more effecient:

    1. Using Default (Precision OFF) movements and holding the LT (Precision Movement modifier) 90% as you track the play in your zone.

    or

    2. Using The old system (Precision ON) and Pressing the RB (T-push) only when you need it, like when you come out of your net to challenge a shot?

    For me, since goalies only need to use t-push movements about 10% of the time during a game, I'd say that having precision movements on by default makes more sense. And it's not just me, it's about 98% of the Human Goalie community that thinks this way. Even the Gamechanger for Goalies (Jonlol) plays this way.

    If you think that the new goalie mechanics are better for you, then more power to you. I think that BOTH should be used. Which is why I suggested a hybrid system where we don't have to be holding combinations of 50 buttons at awkward times.

    We're goalies. We need to have fast reactions to make a save. If I need to hold the RB, then hold the LS one way, while holding the RT and squeeze the LT to make a cross crease save... It's too complicated. It's not intuitive.

    I don't want easy. I want knowledge of the position and skill to mean something. We already don't have any control over what type of save animation we get, even when we're in good position because, HEY!!... Sc****s gotta score sometime, right? If the movements of the goalie could be done a little more automatically and intelligently, so that we can actually concentrate most of our efforts on following the play in front of us. We can't be spending 75% of our attention on our goalie on screen, because we have to fight with the controller just to get the correct combination of buttons to press to make that ONE save we need to keep our team in the game.

    Controlling and Moving the Goalie shouldn't be akin to trying to solve a puzzle box.
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    i prefer Default with Percision off. It just feels faster when I'm holding L2.

    I also think that because you say you use T push 10% of the time you aren't actually reading and reacting to the angles of the play. I'm constantly T pushing to the top of my crease on slot or blue line shooting opportunities. If the shot doesn't come right away I use Percision to lose depth on my angle because it usually means the skater is looking to pass. I feel the fact that I'm already aggressive as he receives the past i can now pay attention to other skaters because I have the angle and depth I need to stop that shot right as he received it not afterwards.

    So I think using Percision only will always make sure you never are at the right depth/angle and always a step behind the shooters options. Specially since the game rewards you with saves at being at the right angle and depth at the right time now.

    i disagree on the fact you think it's one or the other when it's about IMO using both together to react to a play. I agree that 90 % of my movement is based in Percision movement but it's that 10% T push movement that actually allows me to make that save the 98% of you complain about.

    Just to clarify, I've just started to play with T pushes so much more over the past week or so. The results I'm having are really good. So these comments might come off as if. "I'm been doing it this way for years, im right your wrong". No, it's just that I now believe this is a valid style if not better than the old. ( clunky and buggy but affective).
  • @VeNOM2099

    When do you actually use T push? Like you, I use the alternate control set up with precision on by default, but hardly ever use T Push. Only time I use is when opponent is entering the zone and do a cross ice pass at the blue line before entering the zone...I T push then bc precision is still too slow and shuffles slowing to the other site when you tracking the puck carrier that just received the pass before entering the zone, and if they decide to just shoot from the blue line you will get sniped since your still adjusting to track the puck carrier.

    I kinda wanna try using T pushes in cross crease situations, since Ben was saying it's really useful and that's the reason its on the left trigger for the new controls. Do you ever use it to stop cross crease shots? Is it even successful at stopping cross crease shots, bc its hard to predict where you will exactly end up if you T Push all the way. Being out of position like that is just asking for trouble against good teams that cycle.

    Gl with your series.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I use it pretty much like you describe yourself using it (with the alternate controls).

    It would be useful against cross crease one-timers, but as you can see in the video, the main problem with Non-precision movements is that it makes you t-push for every single little movement; forwards, backwards, sideways. You can't be turning your buddy into a t-push all the time like that while the opponents are moving the puck. And holding DOWN a button all the time to get the precision movements is not ideal. Heck, even pressing down on a button to do t-pushes with the alternate controls is not ideal, especially since like all the functions of we have at our disposal, it takes a full second for it to activate it by holding down the button that long.

    We shouldn't have to put that much thought into what combination of buttons we're holding/pushing while we're trying to keep square to the play. We should just be able to concentrate on what's going on in front of us, period.

    As you can see during the PRECISION movement portion of the video, I can stay square and in front of the play pretty well using only precision movements and butterfly slides when needed. The few times I use the t-push during that segment is when going to the side or coming forward out of my net to challenge a possible shot.
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I'm no means an ACE at this since I'm just an average goalie and this is new to me too.

    That being said I use Default controls without perscision movement on. So that means I'm holding L2 for Percision and letting go for TPush. I think my Percision movement is actually faster in this form and it cuts down on holding a lot of. buttons at once when on the post.

    ON THE RUSH:

    I'll TPush to the top of my crease when I see that the puck is past half ice and coming down through the offside circles. If outside I'll sit back and wait to see the passing option or slightly come out to take away near side. If the puck carrier continues down the side boards I'll be looking for passing options and I'll have my TPush ready to go. If he continues down the boards he has a few options and most of them the TPush is required to make a save. So, he tries a cross crease I'm butterlying and T pushing with L1 to hopefully get far side. Another option is the trailer forward. Which is usually on the puck carriers inside shoulder or close to that line. If he passes back I TPush up my crease since I'm covering the near side already and if he's looking one timer it's gotta be a off the post snipe or far post. Inwhich going up with TPush will save both types of shots if done fast enough. ( the delay shot or block pass can screw this up)The initial puck carrier can also stop and curl back and hit a trailing backdoor defense man. This is a tricky one because of how clunky and buggy the TPush is. Up Fine even left and right but when going diagnol it can get rough. To much left and you'll get sniped coming back the other way. To high, and you'll have no chance back door. So I tend to use Percision and stay back until I get a better understanding of where the angle the defenseman is coming in is. However using a TPush here once the angle is established is good or use Percision to make a save.

    While moving in T Push to cut down angles your goalie will make save opportunities even when he looks **** doing so.

    CYCLE:

    On any pass up the side boards or grabbing the post I've got TPush ready to go to be aggressive. While teams cycle I'll use Percision here a lot since you get skaters skating everywhere with the puck. A lot of TPush up and Percision back in this attack. I'll use T Push here a lot to stop defense to defense one timers. If the puck is in the corner I'm standing on my post. If it goes up to the defense I TPush up my crease and immediately start to back up with Percision UntiI have both defenseman covered. If he passes I should already be close to the middle of my net. Using Percision or if I already have the angle a T Push to get up high and in the butterfly top stop the shot/deflections. If he keeps the puck and walks in. Just a quick TPush puts you right back on his angle and you start your Percision movements and reads all over again.

    I'm not sure if this was easier said then done. Or done easier than said. But I am having success on these plays more often. Which in reality are the hardest to get in position. Odd man rushes, breakaways, and bad rebound goals are always gonna happen. This IMO is a style that will give you more control over some of the shots we know we should be making but can't because the Percision movement is to slow.

    Just Practice a lot. I did BAP for a bit just to get use to the up the side boards and the low/high near side one timers the CPU does a lot. I also noticed a jump in my position score. If your in position to make the save more often. EA MIGHT let you make that save
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    I normally get 80 or above for positioning. Even in games I lose. I've even gotten a 90 score after losing 3-0 one night.

    I've played the position in real life. Positioning is the one thing I've pretty much have on lock. I don't even have to look at my goalie on the screen, I know where I am at all times. But that's because I use precision on by default and I need it to be on by default because I'm very mobile in my crease. That's how I like to play.

    That said, I'd like to see a video of people playing a REAL GAME online using t-pushes by default. So far the goalies I've seen do it online have had HORRIBLE games (and usually quit or make their teams quit after 3-4 goals in 10 seconds). I'm certainly not talking about this like I never tried it myself. I remember spending a full week playing with the Default movements in NHL 16 (before the devs added the possibility to toggle precision ON). Granted, I spent much less time doing so in NHL 17, but I think I played about 3-4 games with it before I went back to Precision ON all the time.

    It's just not as intuitive and conductive to playing properly in front of the net. At least that was my experience, but again, if someone says they are able to do things with ease under the default movements, I'd dearly like to see and hopefully learn something.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I normally get 80 or above for positioning. Even in games I lose. I've even gotten a 90 score after losing 3-0 one night.

    I've played the position in real life. Positioning is the one thing I've pretty much have on lock. I don't even have to look at my goalie on the screen, I know where I am at all times. But that's because I use precision on by default and I need it to be on by default because I'm very mobile in my crease. That's how I like to play.

    That said, I'd like to see a video of people playing a REAL GAME online using t-pushes by default. So far the goalies I've seen do it online have had HORRIBLE games (and usually quit or make their teams quit after 3-4 goals in 10 seconds). I'm certainly not talking about this like I never tried it myself. I remember spending a full week playing with the Default movements in NHL 16 (before the devs added the possibility to toggle precision ON). Granted, I spent much less time doing so in NHL 17, but I think I played about 3-4 games with it before I went back to Precision ON all the time.

    It's just not as intuitive and conductive to playing properly in front of the net. At least that was my experience, but again, if someone says they are able to do things with ease under the default movements, I'd dearly like to see and hopefully learn something.

    Default off simply means you need to press L2 to have precision. No one said it means you CAN'T use precision. So I don't get what you're getting at here. Are you saying people don't know to use L2 when precision is not set to default?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    No, I mean that having to hold down a button to do something "most of the time" isn't as intuitive as pressing a button when you NEED to do it.

    Does that make more sense?

    EDIT: Also, my point is that precision movements are better at keeping you squared to the play nearly all the time, while t-pushing will often turn your goalie away from the play which isn't ideal when moving around in the crease.
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    I'll broadcast my drop in gameplay this afternoon. Again, I'm no all star goalie. .780 save % and 4.00 GAA in drop in but you be able to spot the t pushes. It is highly unlikely to get a team that cycles in Drop but if I do. You'll see the benefits of T Push.
    Post edited by SilentCricket26 on
  • I'll broadcast my drop in gameplay this afternoon. Again, I'm no all star goalie. .780 save % and 4.00 GAA in drop in but you be able to spot the t pushes.

    Sure champ. Should I ask someone who works at twitch to send me the link to your stream or should I just umh... Use the Force?

    (BTW, I'm joking and being sarcastic... I'm just looking for you to provide the link to your stream, buddy! :wink: )
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Silentcricket67. I'll be play BAP and Club for awhile. It has more chances to showcase the T Push than drop ins
    Post edited by SilentCricket26 on
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Cool, I'll follow your channel and look forward to see how you do. Thanks.

    EDIT: on a side note, you could turn on ARCHIVE VIDEOS on your twitch channel that way people can watch replays of your stream on demand if they feel like it. I think the videos stay on the server for 7 days and then they're deleted.
  • goalie was nerfed like everything else in this game. change for the sake of change and now here we are.
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