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Alienating the Long-term Fans

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  • kezz123
    647 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I'm seriously done with these **** that think they now the sport simply because they play a video game of the sport which doesn't even represent the sport accurately. The physics in this game are a joke (at best), rebounds that go in directions that make absolutely no sense scientifically are routinely the cause of bad goals, for the sake of appeasing these type of "hockey fans" that think games that end 1-0 or 2-1 are "boring".

    In an NHL game, scoring per game on average should be around 2.00 to 3.00, not 4.00 to 5.00 like it is now. Scoring percentage should be around 10%, not 20% like it is now.

    Ben said that the game settings are set so that a game in NHL 17 that has 15 shots fired in 4 minute periods is like having 30 shots fired on net in full 20 minute periods. That's fine.

    But shouldn't the goals scored also follow this percentage? Why are we seeing 5-6 goals scored per game if the shots per game represented in the video game are halved? Shouldn't we be seeing 2-3 goals scored at most??

    NHL 17 could use having 2 or 3 goals per game lower on average. It won't kill the game. On the contrary it'll make things more exciting.

    There are a few things that come into play when tuning the game. We look at the real world of hockey, we listen to feedback from people playing the game and we learn from the recent and past history of hockey videogames. We take all of that into account when looking at authenticity, game balance, fun factor, etc.

    When I say fun factor, we also consider both sides of the puck. People often say that we cater to players that want to score easily but we spend just as much time on offense and defense when looking at game balance -- updating and tuning mechanics to get the right balance. As you have said yourself, we have shown in our offline tuning that we are aware of the different levers needed to tune the current games mechanics to get more arcade or more full simulation experiences. However, as you mentioned, the time of the periods is a big factor in that as well.

    Our aim for online games is to get over 40 combined shots in a game. Looking at the real world of hockey, we know that we could aim for 60 but then we probably wouldn't be able to have incidental contact on and/or defensive tools like the pokecheck as effective since a lot of the extra minutes in hockey are spent in the corners and battles for loose pucks in congested areas. Having those puck battles and loss of puck when you play good defense, keeps shot totals lower and thus the shot averages go down.

    That said, we still aim for about 6-7 combined goals per game. Pass reception ability is a bit more forgiving than it should be and shot accuracy when fully in control is probably a bit higher as well (you can refer to our full sim settings for what we would do if the period times were double what they were for online defaults at the moment). Other sim communities have found good settings for longer periods as well.

    So with that, we know our shooting percentages have to be 15+ percent.

    Right now, our online averages are 5.96 combined goals per game, 39.71 shots per game and 15 percent shooting. So they are all on the bottom end of what we are aiming for, which we see as a good thing because we have made a choice to give people the tools to contain on defense.

    That said, it all depends on how people play. There are people out there that shut teams out consistently and there are others giving up 7+ goals.

    NHL 13 was the first game I was the gameplay producer for and we often had 1-0 games online. I am sure many of you remember that. I learned from feedback that this wasn't going to work overall. We also listened to the core EASHL community last year when players felt they were missing open nets too often and that bobbling pass receptions was really hurting the team game. As we improved defensive control in skating, pokechecking, improved incidental contact, low relative speed hitting, adding net battles and extended stick lifts, etc., it opened the door to tune some of the offensive pieces so that if you were open and have found space, you weren't as physically accountable for perfect facing for clean pass receptions and would have an easier time hitting open nets when shooting compared to games like NHL 13 and 16. With good defensive coverage though, you can shut teams down fairly well.

    So many questions....so many things irritate me with this response. But all these things I knew deep down. And I also appreciate you taking time to have a dialogue. Once the frustration is out of the way, perhaps solutions can be found.

    I think however that you are over-analyzing and its leading to problematic design.

    Reaching your "target stats" can be done in 2 ways...the right way or the bad way. I can promise you its done the wrong way right now. And the amount of hardcore players leaving the game is a statement to this. if your game was more fun or better balanced or more of a simulation, your hardcore players would stick around. My team and most of my friends who all quit playing your game all play real hockey weekly. So we are not just couch potatoes who do not understand hockey or fun.....we are not the type to stop playing the game we love because we moved on to another game. its our passion and not a month goes by where we dont talk about how much we miss playing the NHL game together and then jokingly ask each other if we should buy it and then just laugh the joke off. That may sound harsh but if you look past that, its a painful truth about your current product.

    Despite all your good intentions.... I Sincerely believe your heart is in the right place when developing the game, its just not working the way you intend it to.

    Its no coincidence that TONS of people always praise nhl94 or nhl 10-11 and not NHL 98 or nhl15. Its because those games did many things right. the "feel" of the game. Not sure what the "stats" were back then but the game was truly fun.

    There is also the fact that people come in with different skill level. One team may have all "nhl level human players" while another may have 1 nhl level player and 2 peewee level players. Your matchmaker will never be good enough to account for all that and the scores should vary greatly based on skill level, not on some artificial build in systems that makes it harder to score.

    I do understand looking at stats and trying to balance around it but again, there are different ways to interpret stats. I do not believe you guys are doing it right. For instance, I asked you before to pull the stats from 11 on how many goal difference in average there were each game and how many in say 16. Why are the goal difference between teams so much lower now? Is that healthy? Does it mean that all teams just happened to get better at the game or does your game system now reward good players less for being good and bad players more for being bad? We all know the answer to this by now but those stats would have helped you see this sooner. And make changes accordingly.

    I guess im just rambling now and I could go on and on but i hope this helps


  • Assisted_6 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    You guys really like to jump to conclusions. There is nothing in the game that allows goals on a certain number of shots. When I post those numbers, it is to let you know that we are aware of the numbers and how our tuning impacts them.

    You could take 100 shots and never score, or you could take 5 shots and score all 5.

    Shooting, passing, goalie reaction, body contact, etc. are all based off unique models. Add puck physics to that equation and you have control over your own destiny relative to everyone else that plays the game.

    Regardless if we tune things to be more or less forgiving, if you take the real world of hockey into account, and maximize your chances based on what you know of the real world sport, you will increase your chance to score. However, if you get a chance from the slot, and from a twitch perspective, don't know how to settle properly, identify where the goalie is cheating more and have the ability to shoot to that location, you still may not score. If you take shots where the goalie is screened, or get him moving more so he can't settle, you increase your chance to score. If you shoot back against your momentum or just after spinning around, you are going to have far less accuracy than if you settled. Anyways, you guys know the deal, the list goes on.

    And that inconsistency in shots is the problem. My club total for the year is probably around 120 wins and around 5 losses, and we mainly play computer goalie. Like you said there are games we could take 5 shots and score 5 goals, then the next game we could get those EXACT same chances in the same situation and none of them go in the net. The reason the game is struggling and there is so much negativity is its too random.

    Im gonna expand on this and say...
    Remove defense from NHL and let offense cross crease it at will.
    See how often the goalies make the save.
    Not to say they never do. But the percentage drops drastically . When they do save it...its WOW exciting. Why? because nobody expected them to save it.

    In this game, you managed to make it so that when you completely undress the defense, you "expect" the goalie to stop whatever amazing scoring opportunity you throw at him. Thats not right. it gets old really fast. ESPECIALLY when the opposing team turns around and rush your zone...panics at the blue line because of GOOD defensive play and just throw a backhander at the net which turns into a goal somehow...rebound or clean goal....your faith in the game starts dropping fast. Because the better you are, the less likely you are to take these trash shots yet, these trash shots have just as much chances of going in than the amazing one timer after beating the D.


    Whats the point of completely undressing the opponent if you are rarely rewarded?

    I much rather the days when you missed the net more (how often do you see an NHL player miss a mostly open net on a cross crease because they couldnt get good stick on the puck?) and had goalies let in more goals that they should and get the WOW when they made a nice unexpected save.

    It also rewarded people based on beating the other team's defense vs mostly just hoping to beat the goalie more each game.
  • kezz123
    647 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Question for NHLDev.

    Love the conversation about NHL 12 for example, here is many old schooler complaint. NHL 09, 10, 11, and 12 the EASHL community and leagues were off the charts. It was never more fun to play this game back then. There was something so right with how the game played, it was just flat out fun to play!!! Since NHL 13 and the implementation of TPS (the birth of sim), ever since year by year the EASHL community has suffered greatly as fewer players from previous years came back, year by year they gave up on the game as EASHL just isn't as fun as it used to be. My question is you have to realize this, yes? That EASHL has lost it's flair/fun? The days of Kontenders, white knights, fearless, composure, ninth wonder, cross crease cheese, unbreakable cycle, reservoir dogs, and countless other top clubs and all their members played religiously day in day out all year round until the next years game came out, then repeat another year. Something happened at NHL 13, the game became less fun, (more real) but less fun.

    What is EA's stance on bringing this fun back to EASHL??? Please don't tell me its gone forever and you aren't bringing it back, it was a noble attempt to redirect the game to a sim, but you lost the fun factor. I understand there are people who like the game as is, but I can tell you as someone who's played the 09/10,11,12 year games and kept playing 13,14,15,16,17 and I'm not telling you something you don' t already know, this game does not have the fan following it once had, not even close, it was a cult, addicted NHL EASHL players 4 to 6 hours a day/night, every day. This is not the case anymore, doesn't EA want that fan dedication back?

    Please explain in terms of fun factor from old school to new school, thanks..

    Yes, it is an interesting debate. It is easy to draw a line in the sand there as that is when the game changed the most. However, it is hard to say if EASHL for those particular teams was still building in popularity in 12 still and just fell off in 13 or if it had already declined. I mean, we can look at the telemetry and we do, but trying to just talk on a high level here.

    When the game changes, it is going to appeal to different crowds in nature. However, the glory days of something can purely be when something is brand new as well. It is definitely our goal that all of our community likes the next game as much or more than the last as well as bringing in new players to the community. I remember a lot of complaints back then though that have been addressed in the changes made -- the grass can be greener looking back but I am not sure it isn't the changes in gameplay alone that necessarily lead to some players playing less games than they once did.

    This isn't me passing the blame and saying it isn't gameplay since our main job here is to continue to make the game as great as we can and conversations and comments like this definitely get noticed.

    As a side note though, you may even want to look at outside telemetry such as how many hours a week someone has for videogames over an 8 year span of their life. It may just be different teams these days that can put in the same hours as those original teams from NHL 09 and it could be that those teams spend more time on twitter and snapshot to communicate with each other than us old school guys do on forums. Kinda joking but there is some truth to it.

    The bottom line, regardless of year is that fun is subjective. We see it within our game changer discussions in terms of what is important to work on next, how people would tune the player classes, etc.

    I can tell you with 100% accuracy...ill die debating this....what happened precisely.

    in 12, you nerfed the defense....because "defense was too easy in 11" and that STARTED to turn off people by creating an inbalance in the game but this wasnt enough by itself to turn off people completely. But I do remember that the game got a little more frustrating to play then.

    in 13 you added TPS AND Spiderman goalies all at once. So you made 2 changes at once that made it harder to score....both because TPS made positioning and scoring harder and the goalies made more stupid saves they had no business making. that was A HUGE downer. add to that the defense was impacted even harder than offense by this. This is when the cycle of goalies bailing out bad team and defense started and where a mediocre defense is ok since the goalies are so strong. Where the majority of human goalies are worse than their AI counterpart. and human offense not being rewarded as much for their plays. You just made all 3 positions less fun and rewarding to play. BOOM. jackpot.

    had you kept the skating as is and add spiderman goalies, the gameplay may still have been fun while reducing goals a bit but the spiderman goalies would have been a lot more beatable on good scoring chances with the old skating. or Vice versa....harder to skate and setup golden chances but goalies remain as weak as before. But you had to do both. HUGE mistake and we have suffered since.

    THEN you went and break / remove vision control....*drops controller* now we are at 3 items that make scoring harder and lets just avoid discussing defense anymore at this point...


    Another non-gameplay change that is a HUGE factor in the decrease in popularity of your game:
    Dressing rooms. When you decided to remove the dressing rooms (my memory fails me here as to when you did, was it 12?, you killed many large clubs. Clubs were forced to split up in smaller club so that they could play at the same time instead of benching a bunch of people. It killed something special, something magical...it REALLY hurt EASHL and the community. You divided the community. Why? To prevent a handful of kids abusing multiple dressing rooms to play more combined games than others for leaderboards. There were like 2-3 other perfectly good fixes to this issue but you took the worse. Arguably a bigger design mistake than TPS and spiderman goalies and control vision combined. And one you have yet to resolve.

    What you did was force players to split clubs in clubs of 6-8 players. Then these players not being able to play when others were not on.....as a result playing less....losing interest.....and the vicious circle continues. Greatly impacting the amount of 6s games that teams played. How you not see the chain reaction of this change and how much damage it did to your game is astounding to me.

    There you go...you understand why your game's popularity sank over the year...
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    kezz123 wrote: »
    the amount of hardcore players leaving the game is a statement to this. if your game was more fun or better balanced or more of a simulation, your hardcore players would stick around.

    I've been playing this series since 1993. I still play every game, every year - almost every day.

    The whole "Hardcore players are leaving the series" is grossly overstated and frankly, it's not true.

    I would agree that many of the hardcore players like myself may be frustrated and disappointed in certain aspects of the game - but any player that's had the NHL series a part of their day to day life for the past 20 years is not 'leaving this game' - they're just playing it with a nagging sense of frustration from time to time.

    Now - is that a commentary on the game itself, or does it have to do with the competition within the game being more and more intense. Losses mean more and come with more frustration.

    Something to think about.

    I don't know that anyone can really say with any certainty whether the hardcore players are leaving the game, except for maybe EA. Even then, they'd have to dig pretty deep into telemetry data to get that info out of the game. Maybe take the top 10% of players in terms of games played for each game mode, and then see how that number grows for each release as the months go on.

    Neither side can say much more than their anecdotal experience with the game. I tend to agree with Kezz that the game is losing players, and that's mostly because my team's games played has dropped each year. We still have exactly the same people, and our schedules aren't all that different than they were back then, but because of the frustration we get when playing NHL, we're more likely to play something else if everyone is on and more likely to stop playing NHL once we start because we get so frustrated with the game.

    I'm honestly not even sure if anyone from my club will buy the next game if EA doesn't introduce some major changes. We would literally play 10pm-6am sometimes, even 6+ months after release, but now we're lucky to play even a couple hours without someone signing off of going to play something else. EASHL was so good back then, we bought FIFA 11 just to see how well the club mode worked.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    kezz123 wrote: »
    the amount of hardcore players leaving the game is a statement to this. if your game was more fun or better balanced or more of a simulation, your hardcore players would stick around.

    I've been playing this series since 1993. I still play every game, every year - almost every day.

    The whole "Hardcore players are leaving the series" is grossly overstated and frankly, it's not true.

    I would agree that many of the hardcore players like myself may be frustrated and disappointed in certain aspects of the game - but any player that's had the NHL series a part of their day to day life for the past 20 years is not 'leaving this game' - they're just playing it with a nagging sense of frustration from time to time.

    Now - is that a commentary on the game itself, or does it have to do with the competition within the game being more and more intense. Losses mean more and come with more frustration.

    Something to think about.

    Put the word "hardcore" aside for a moment, are you privy to the amount of game sales/returns of NHL 17? I know I'm not...but clearly there are FAR LESS people playing this game than there were 4-5 years ago.

    Either the Esport of hockey has completely died off or gamers simply haven't enjoy this product in recent years. Can you blame them?

    Everyone hoped for a revolutionized version of hockey to coincide with the release of the new consoles back in 2014. We didn't get it in 15, obviously (that game was a joke). We got some resemblance of Esport hockey in NHL 16 but, again, the game was joke. Third time around and guess what??...the game is still garbage for so many reasons.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Given the title of this thread, I just want to get in a little representation for offline/franchise type of player seeing as there is a dev responding here. I know you EASHL guys have a lot of gripes and I'm not trying to get in your way or change the focus, but I consider myself a "long term fan" and I'm curious about the direction for franchise-mode.

    I have to say, relative to past EAS NHL titles, full-sim/10 min periods in '17 is the best I've played. It took a little getting used to, but I've had some great games thus far. I was really surprised by the ebb and flow to the game. It really does, in a condensed manner, mimic a real game.

    The gameplay supports the overall "length" of the game very well. I feel as if I'm doing the right amount of attacking and defending and it's just because I'm playing the game to win (as opposed to just playing and hoping the game will finish in the context of reality). My point is, by games end, win or lose, the game has simulated enough instances of real hockey that it's evoked my emotions, good and bad, proportionately. And given the "tuning" of the gameplay, 10 min periods allow enough hockey to be played for a storyline to develop and a sense of accomplishment with a winning outcome, and for lack of a better term, a sense of "well I had my chances" on the losing side .

    Now, let me get to the gripes (in no particular order):

    The A.I. - Learning to play with them is one thing. I mean, they have their tendencies/patterns and learning and adapting to them can only help. But there are just too many things that they've been doing for too long that I'm really growing too tired of...

    What I call the "Neutral Zone Shuffle" really needs to be addressed. This is where the A.I. team has the puck in the Neutral Zone and does this silly dance until they can walk in. They don't dump the puck in, they don't regroup like even bantam and **** teams are taught to, they just twerk around until all my A.I. teammates have gathered at our blue line near the center and A LOT of space magically opens up on the wings for them. What's more, is that their very hard to get a body on at this point. It's been this way for a few iterations now. In '17 you can actually poke it away from them, but because all your teammates are discussing their plans for after the game (I think that's what there doing, I can't figure out why they've all gathered in one spot), the puck just goes to another opposing A.I. player and we "rinse and repeat".

    If proper regrouping can't be accomplished then dumping should be the only real option left. There shouldn't be those kind of options in the Neutral zone with 5 defenders back. It just shouldn't happen, but it happens every game it's getting really tiresome.

    "Where is he going?! Where the bleep is he going?!" This refers to A.I. players just wandering off, over skating simple plays, being behind offensive players for no reason. Some specific examples would include: weak side forward on a PK. Every time I take control of the puck side forward on a PK, my A.I. teammate always has to follow me and it's not that I've gone too far in a wrong direction. I'm within reach of the opposing forward on the boards and the point man, but here comes my teammate right to where I am. I don't get it. What's more, a 5-on-3 PK is even worse. They have no sense of what to do. To be fair though, PP units don't know how to set up a 5-on-3 either. Again, it's been around for too long, and it's really getting old.

    More can be said of the A.I. (like how the all of sudden they just start ignoring passes), but let's move on.

    Stats are good. Goals, shots, PP/PKs, all good. Hits are low when playing games. Not that we need more hitting, but it's seems a hit only counts if you destroy a player rather than remove him from the puck. This goes for both human and A.I teams.

    If you play all or most of your games in a franchise/season mode, stats like hits and faceoffs aren't comparable to the rest of the league because simmed games are based on real life percentages and not within the parameters of the actual gameplay. I take 30 to 40 faceoffs per game and all other teams (through the sim engine) take 60 to 80, giving them what looks like very inflated numbers. Scaling appropriately needs to be implemented or just don't bother tallying those stats because there's no point to analyzing how you measure up to the rest of the league.

    Player likeness... There's like seven players on my team that all look the same, and their not the Hanson brothers. I understand it's a difficult task to scan players, but the effort with generic faces is really killing the emersion. What's sad is, with the options available for generic faces, so much more "likeness" can be accomplished. We could use some more face types, but it isn't that bad. Through the create-a-player, I re-did the Islanders (just to see, because I can't edit player appearances) with generic faces and got some really good results. We need to be able to edit appearances for players with generic faces, because games like FIFA and the Show have been much better at this for a LONG time. If you don't have an intern capable of this, give me the data base and an editor and I'll do it for free. Gladly. This aspect has just been too bad for too long, and again it's wearing me down.

    Some things for Franchise mode, like: how about giving us the ability to add pre existing injuries like they do in the Show. I mean the Show and other sports titles have a lot real life things you should be copying.

    Overall, it's a good game. It has a lot of key things in place, but there's too many old problems that are to redundant and tiring. I mean, I really hate dealing with the Neutral Zone Shuffle and it's been around for too long.

    So, as a "long term fan", I'd like to know where EA stands on Franchise type modes and if Full Sim, 10 min periods are going to be a standard and continue to be tuned and worked on within those parameters. Are this long standing issues fixable? Are they even issues on your end?

    Appreciate the unique perspective. This board is definitely more heavily weighted to that of the EASHL community. We see a similar view as yours more commonly on the Operation Sports forums. At the end of the day, that is one of the hardest parts of the job. The one thing that connects us all is an interest in hockey but what a hockey videogame should be, is different for all of us since different factors are used to quantify success.

    The addition of presets and the gameplay slider work we did was an attempt to be able to reach more styles of hockey that people are after. As has been mentioned in this thread, we have talked about offering those different experiences for online play -- one of the things I liked about GM Connected was the ability for people to play on any of the game styles we had tuned -- I would like to see that taken even further where people could share Custom Presets to play online with. The changes open up some doors for us to possibly go that way.

    All that said, when we worked with the Gamechanger group, we wanted to expand the group to better represent more styles of play. We added a goalie to the group, a full sim fan, some core HUT players, etc. to expand to the group of core EASHL players that we have and even there we expanded our EASHL representation to even more of the core league members. On top of that, we also do a lot of consumer insight testing and User Research sessions/play tests to get both veteran and new users in to play our different modes, give feedback on paper prototypes/feature ideas, etc.

    We take those perspectives into account as we are deciding on the feature set, developing the game and looking at tuning/patches for the game.

    At some point, we need to make tough calls and pick a direction but ultimately, we are aware of what all the different groups would like to see from the product when we make those calls.

    Many of the things you have called out have been discussed. Speaking specifically of Gameplay, the AI issues are something of specific interest but they are also some of the toughest things to get right -- realistic human hockey players.

    Ill be honest, we can disagree and sling crap at you all day but I, for one, really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us about this stuff.

    I understand your job is hard and that in comparison to other EA titles you have limited resources. This game is close. Honestly, its really, really close. It just needs a few things addressed.

    In my personal opinion it needs to lose the tug boat feeling while not reverting back to the ballerina skating of the past. Perhaps my request isn't possible considering its impossible to cater to all of us.

    One thing I do think is possible is making the players pass harder (no hockey player, at any level, passes slowly. We were taught, at a young age, throw a firm pass), maybe implement a pass meter and have the transitional skating moves be more quick. I was taught how to skate by a world class instructor (Marianne Watkins, look her up, she does a lot with NHL players and teams). You can reach top speed in 2-1/2 strides and that's from a dead stop.
  • KoryDub wrote: »

    I've been playing this series since 1993. I still play every game, every year - almost every day.

    The whole "Hardcore players are leaving the series" is grossly overstated and frankly, it's not true.

    I would agree that many of the hardcore players like myself may be frustrated and disappointed in certain aspects of the game - but any player that's had the NHL series a part of their day to day life for the past 20 years is not 'leaving this game' - they're just playing it with a nagging sense of frustration from time to time.

    Now - is that a commentary on the game itself, or does it have to do with the competition within the game being more and more intense. Losses mean more and come with more frustration.

    Something to think about.

    While I don't have the numbers to back it up (and it doesn't seem like you do either), I can tell you that as a player (and team) that put in over 2000 games a year in EASHL until current gen, we have given up on the game and stopped buying it.

    I'm speaking for at least 7 people when I say that and know I'm not the only one. We have a similar situation to another person that stated they still play games regularly, but joke about what the NHL series has become. It just feels like the NHL series is just surviving on HUT at this point.
  • A good way to look at this is thru example.

    The game as it is today, if you are lucky enough to set up a tic tac toe play without turning over the puck or having it deflected the goalie saves the one timer a ridiculous % of the time. Then just to have the other team skate over the blue line, get pressured, then take a wild shot out of fear just for it to deflect or rebound right to his teammate for a goal. You can go the whole game where one team dominated TOA 12 min. to 3 minutes, mostly with great set up chances and no goals to show for it, and lose on 30 wild shots that result in 3 goals from deflections and rebounds.

    The point is the game is no longer under our control, and control is not rewarded. You have a better chance to win throwing 40 shots on net from everywhere than taking 10 perfect shots. What fun is a game when it comes down to who can throw the most garbage shots on net? There is no fun in this, the fun part is controlling a cycle setting up tic tac toe plays.

    In the glory days 09/10/11/12 you could do both, throw pucks on net and control a cycle for nice plays, but those who could control the game and get the best scoring chances on tic tac toes, backside one timers, etc. would not only win, but dominate the game. Control = rewarded, today randomness is rewarded.

    All years have their set of flaws, so with that in mind there is never a perfect game.

    However with all that said, if you look at NHL 11 for example, can you find a more fun game to play than NHL11? Hitting was incredible, ability to cycle and hit teammates cross crease for beautiful tic tac toe plays was off the charts fun!!!

    Lets get this fun back EA!!!
    Hardcore does not equal sim players, hardcore = people who play 4 or more hours everyday regardless if its more arcade or not.

    There is no argument, it is fact, NHL 09/10/11/12 EASHL was incredible, was fun, was addicting, was competitive, was awesome. Please bring this back!!
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    A good way to look at this is thru example.

    The game as it is today, if you are lucky enough to set up a tic tac toe play without turning over the puck or having it deflected the goalie saves the one timer a ridiculous % of the time.

    This is the main reason the 1v1 modes turn me off completely in EA's NHL, and it's been true for a long, long time (except maybe NHL 10 and NHL 16, which were the year of the one-timers). You can set up a perfect play, move the entire defense out of position, have the goalie at your mercy and somehow, the puck will miss the net, or hit the post, or the goalie will recover and make a miraculous diving/sprawling save. And not just once but many times in a row.

    Then the opponent will skate back on the lone rush he gets in the period, weave right, weave left, fire a weak wrister cross-grain and your goalie won't stop it.

    I just can't be arsed to play HUT, VS. and even Draft Champions anymore. I spend most of my time trying to stop what should be low percentage shots from the boards or just past the blue line, when I should be playing solid hockey. And then things degenerate into how many cheese goals can each of us get by the opponent to win the game?

  • I've been an avid NHL gamer since 1994 Sega Genesis, buying the game every year since. I have to say that I agree so much with all the things said in this thread like Clunky TPS, server stability/load, and mainly dumbing down the game and creating less and less of a skill gap. The introduction of EASHL was the best thing to happen to the series, it's the only game mode I've played since NHL 12 and when it works well and everything coalesces it's one of the best multiplayer gaming experiences you can have. HUT is fun and a good concept but with the money involved its hard to make a competitive scene out of it so most people are collectors or just play for giggles which is fine all games have payable DLC nowadays to stay afloat but your main focus should be multiplayer gaming like EASHL.

    Server stability has been plaguing this game since the 360 days, it's honestly a joke how bad the servers are at peak play times. I live in NY and have incredible internet, I almost never have latency or that "heavy feeling" on any other game it's practically non existent on other games but NHL every night I play you can bet on that 75 percent of the games I play feel terrible. It doesn't matter what I do with my network/router, it's 2017 for crying out loud.

    Now you guys dumb down the game, making the pace of players slower and deking so ineffective that next to no one uses it. I mean it was bad enough in 16 when you take away our last gen deking mechanics and replace it with these **** one touch dekes but now those are rendered next to useless unless you have the proper build to use them. All this leads to horrible gameplay when you add in the clunky skating and most notably server stability which plays a massive part in results. On most nights I want to pull my hair out from the frustration of playing this game. In all seriousness do you guys properly test the game online 6v6 with server load or just go by Local LAN tests and expect it to work the same way.

    NHL 17 has been the worst iteration in the series thus far you guys have literally sunk your fangs into this game and sucked the life out of it, it's only November and the club scene is next to dead. This club and player customization is a welcome addition but no is going to bother with the game if it feels horrendous and is a chore to play. Sure a year end tourney might help in that regard but GAMEPLAY and SERVER improvements need to be made a top priority over anything else to reinvigorate this dying game mode. ITS NOT FUN ANYMORE EA, MAKE NHL FUN AGAIN.
  • I just find it funny how most come here and say, they dont find the game enjoyable. The only reason people come here is because they want someone to scratch there back. Most will admit the forums arent very active. IMO its because you have less people complaining about the game. Just look at this thread, its all the same people commenting.


    As for numbers in the past 2 weeks, COD, BF1 both 2 of the biggest games have come out. But at night the numbers havent really dropped off 13-16k. Which has been the norm for years.

    To bring it back to the level of enojoyment Its because the game has become tougher, when something is tough in life, its harder to have enjoyment, for most. I personally enjoy it more because I love the adversity. But I suppose thats why , in life, I have more success in anything I have ever done compared to most.

    Especially club because this year it is harder to abuse the game, like it was abused in previous years. No more glitch shots being exploited, better defensive tools, no more forced passes going threw 5 guys all the time, hitting knocking the puck carrier off the puck, forcing players to move the puck more and quicker etc etc the list goes on.

    All these things make the game play more realistic. Is it realistic ? No of course not but has it gotten more realistic ? Yes and IMO more enjoyable. The same could be said with my friends. I have a hand full of friends, that played junior with me, they love the game for being more realistic. They actually play more then me now, and more then other years because of this.

    EA has given the user the defensive tools finally. Which most have a hard time adapting (passing the puck more, using your teammates, playing better defensively) I dont play the game as much as I used to either.

    But yet I love this game..........you know why ? I have grown up and matured as Im sure most others have as well, so your not playing the game as much.


    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    I just find it funny how most come here and say, they dont find the game enjoyable. The only reason people come here is because they want someone to scratch there back. Most will admit the forums arent very active. IMO its because you have less people complaining about the game. Just look at this thread, its all the same people commenting.


    As for numbers in the past 2 weeks, COD, BF1 both 2 of the biggest games have come out. But at night the numbers havent really dropped off 13-16k. Which has been the norm for years.

    To bring it back to the level of enojoyment Its because the game has become tougher, when something is tough in life, its harder to have enjoyment, for most. I personally enjoy it more because I love the adversity. But I suppose thats why , in life, I have more success in anything I have ever done compared to most.

    Especially club because this year it is harder to abuse the game, like it was abused in previous years. No more glitch shots being exploited, better defensive tools, no more forced passes going threw 5 guys all the time, hitting knocking the puck carrier off the puck, forcing players to move the puck more and quicker etc etc the list goes on.

    All these things make the game play more realistic. Is it realistic ? No of course not but has it gotten more realistic ? Yes and IMO more enjoyable. The same could be said with my friends. I have a hand full of friends, that played junior with me, they love the game for being more realistic. They actually play more then me now, and more then other years because of this.

    EA has given the user the defensive tools finally. Which most have a hard time adapting (passing the puck more, using your teammates, playing better defensively) I dont play the game as much as I used to either.

    But yet I love this game..........you know why ? I have grown up and matured as Im sure most others have as well, so your not playing the game as much.

    Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions on the game, and I'd probably agree that if everyone were taking the approach that you are when playing NHL there would be fewer complaints about the game not being enjoyable. The problem is that I (and probably many others) don't want to come home from work and have to keep working when I play games. I want to be able to zone out a bit, relax, and not have to worry about every tiny detail on the ice at all times.

    I've been quite successful in my professional career as well (seriously, you should see my media room), but when I play games, I don't want to have to treat it like a career.
  • More/better defensive tools is ****.

    As a forward in the offensive zone I can poke check and stick lift quite easily and rarely receive a penalty.

    As a dman in my defensive zone it's much harder and usually inconsistent which results in a penalty.

    That's **** and unfair.

    On the PK its sometimes harder to clear the puck than it should be whether I'm attempting a hard slap shot or a long flip. I find the offensive team stops those way too much. Like when an opposing player jumps way up in the air which is completely unrealistic.

    The offensive side/aspects of this game are way to easy and advantageous compared to the defensive side/aspects.

    These things can be filed under the minor annoyances category.

    What needs to change is the FEEL and control of playing this game when you don't have the puck.

    The game controls well and FEELS good when you have the puck. 45 cuts, 90 cuts, stride dekes, RS deking all FEEL good to control. You have complete control over those things, they require specific inputs and respond well.

    The FEEL and control when you don't have the puck is a **** mess. It is clunky, feels like a chore and has been garbage since NHL 13.

    Nail the FEEL of control without the puck and you instantly have a great game again (server/latency issues aside). Everything else wrong with the game becomes minor annoyances at that point.

    Make this game FEEL good to play again 100% of the time, not just with the puck, and the fun factor is immediately back.. Eh bud? o:)
  • It's not that the controls feel like **** when you don't have the puck, it's the the agility of the player with the puck is BOOSTED.

    Make the player with the puck move like a player WITHOUT it and things will normalize.
  • Isnt the FEEL of skating without the puck almost entirely bad because of lack of proper vision control?
  • We all wish we had Cogs version of the game :smiley:
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    Isnt the FEEL of skating without the puck almost entirely bad because of lack of proper vision control?

    As a simplified explanation, yes.

  • "Isnt the FEEL of skating without the puck almost entirely bad because of lack of proper vision control?"

    Indeed that is a big part of it, classic vision control was key to always being able to correct yourself and maintain control over your skater. Classic vision control is key to controlling your skater without the puck. We need to remove backwards skating and put classic vision control back in, classic vision control is much more important and is used way more often than backwards skating is anyways, people hardly use backwards skating anymore, its a wasted button/action, bring back classic vision control.
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