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Alienating the Long-term Fans

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  • NHLDev wrote: »

    trust us when we tell you, TPS hurt the game and the fan base. at the very least, it had alienated anyone who had somewhat mastered the 09-12 years. there was no motivation to keep playing since no one really asked for a new skating engine in the first place. personally, i just spend that time i used to dedicate for NHL on other games now like GTA or whatever new shooter is out.

    I definitely get the point about people who had mastered the game during those years. That said, there were a lot of people that complained about figure skaters and a new skating engine should be a welcome addition to a hockey game. It is always a risk to advance core tech in your game but I think that is something teams should always be looking to do where it makes sense. The decision to move to a new skating engine was decided before I started on gameplay so I can't take credit for that call but the majority of my job with skating that year was to figure out how the new skating engine, the tuning, etc. was going to fix issues people had with the old skating model -- accountability was a big part. I think it is great that pivots are actually a part of the game and that you can manage your gap by understanding when to skate forwards and pivot to backskating and that you then need to choose when to pivot and commit rather than just sliding sideways across your skates. Sure there are places where it can be better but that was the case with the old model as well which had hit some limitations to advance further.

    Overall, it brought fresh life to the series and some people adapted and embraced the change and others as you mentioned decided that they didn't have that mastery anymore and moved on rather than seeing it as another piece they could master above their competition.

    We have snipers but if shooting people with guns is what you are after, I am not sure any skating engine will make a difference there.

    i was just tapping on your point about gaming less 8 years later. not true in my case, i'm just allocating more time to other games. during the 09-12' years i pretty much ONLY played NHL. those gaming hours just go into different games now, because i don't enjoy NHL as much as i used to.

    i still have fun with NHL, but when TPS was introduced, instead of wanting to tackle it and master it or whatever, the backwards skating everywhere just didn't make sense or appeal to me over the old agility and vision control. when it first came out everyone would just skate backwards all the time, if you want to be decent now, you better know how to enter a zone skating backwards. that's not really hockey in my opinion and is just another tool that is abused. we basically traded in figure skating for backwards skating. figure skating is more realistic and fun in my opinion.
  • Thanks ben for spending some time in this thread. As a eashl only player since 09, I have to say I have been disappointed with every offering after nhl 12 (although playing 1000+ games per year, and all year long I could be slightly off on the exact year). This is not to say the game has not had areas of improvement, however, many of the things I have found game breaking are still in the game, holding it back from improving overall on a year to year basis.

    The jump to this generation was the most disappointing of all. I honestly can't see a single thing you guys are doing on this generation that you were not able to do on last generation. Maybe it's stuff under the hood. Would you be open to sharing what the power of the current systems has allowed you to do with the game that couldn't be done before? For example, puck carriers being able to hide the puck through the boards has been in the game since 09. I thought for sure the boards would be solid this gen and players would not be able to hide the puck through the boards, exploiting the game, and being rewarded by drawing tripping penalties. This game feels like a last gen game to me still.

    Have to say I fully agree here.
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    Hotjoint wrote: »
    The NHL series isnt fun to play anymore, thats what its come down to. Ea wont give us 100% control of our player. Its frustrating and a chore to play. My team used to be hardcore players, we barely play anymore and it looks like we might stop buying NHL all together.

    Can't wait for COGs and strategg to come in and say "real hockey" and "don't let them shoot from the boards" you know, because these two are hockey experts....

    I mean, the amount of stuff I've learned from these two is amazing. I'll make sure to tell the Prep defensemen I work with thos year to give up the middle of the ice, because we don't want them taking weak wristers from the boards, because those will certainly result in huge rebounds in the middle of our slot. Lol...

    hey can you show me where I can find the clips where a weak wrister from the boards gives a huge rebound into the middle of the slot ?

    I got you COGS, right here. Not just once, but 17 times in a row on weak, unscreened shots.



    I'll be waiting for y'all to tell me how that's exactly where an NHL goalie should be leaving those rebounds, even though I've already demonstrated how easy it is for a goalie to use their stick to knock pucks into the corner. This is something I can do even on some relatively hard shots in real life. If the puck is along the ice and I can track it the whole way, I have a pretty good chance of putting that puck into the corner or to an area I think is safe.

    Fast forward to 3:18, then 5:00 then 7:20, (this one shows exactly what your doing the best) and 10:10


    oh look weak wristers from the side boards, middle of the ice and all over and huge rebounds. Watch the shots that hit Holtbys pads. You guys make me laugh.



    So apparently, your best example is a player taking a shot from between the circles? You're normally better at this COGS. I'm disappointed. By all means, make some GIFs or something of the huge rebounds on shots from the point you're talking about, but it doesn't negate me getting 17 rebound shots in a row on shots that I could direct to the corner in real life.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    trust us when we tell you, TPS hurt the game and the fan base. at the very least, it had alienated anyone who had somewhat mastered the 09-12 years. there was no motivation to keep playing since no one really asked for a new skating engine in the first place. personally, i just spend that time i used to dedicate for NHL on other games now like GTA or whatever new shooter is out.

    I definitely get the point about people who had mastered the game during those years. That said, there were a lot of people that complained about figure skaters and a new skating engine should be a welcome addition to a hockey game. It is always a risk to advance core tech in your game but I think that is something teams should always be looking to do where it makes sense. The decision to move to a new skating engine was decided before I started on gameplay so I can't take credit for that call but the majority of my job with skating that year was to figure out how the new skating engine, the tuning, etc. was going to fix issues people had with the old skating model -- accountability was a big part. I think it is great that pivots are actually a part of the game and that you can manage your gap by understanding when to skate forwards and pivot to backskating and that you then need to choose when to pivot and commit rather than just sliding sideways across your skates. Sure there are places where it can be better but that was the case with the old model as well which had hit some limitations to advance further.

    Overall, it brought fresh life to the series and some people adapted and embraced the change and others as you mentioned decided that they didn't have that mastery anymore and moved on rather than seeing it as another piece they could master above their competition.

    We have snipers but if shooting people with guns is what you are after, I am not sure any skating engine will make a difference there.

    i was just tapping on your point about gaming less 8 years later. not true in my case, i'm just allocating more time to other games. during the 09-12' years i pretty much ONLY played NHL. those gaming hours just go into different games now, because i don't enjoy NHL as much as i used to.

    i still have fun with NHL, but when TPS was introduced, instead of wanting to tackle it and master it or whatever, the backwards skating everywhere just didn't make sense or appeal to me over the old agility and vision control. when it first came out everyone would just skate backwards all the time, if you want to be decent now, you better know how to enter a zone skating backwards. that's not really hockey in my opinion and is just another tool that is abused. we basically traded in figure skating for backwards skating. figure skating is more realistic and fun in my opinion.

    Yea, that's pretty much my story too. NHL has just been getting played less and less for the past few years now. It's not that the game is too difficult to figure out, it's that I just don't have fun playing the style of play you need to us to win. It's boring and monotonous.
  • We appreciate the replies. But I'm blown away that EA programs the shooting to be higher for the account of 4 minute periods. I highly disagree with that decision. I just don't understand why they go the route of in between a sim and an arcade. It's a sure way to frustrate literally everybody.

    I want for just one year, for EA to use the realistic sliders settings and force the arcadey people to adapt for once. In FIFA, the shooting mechanism is quite realistic. You have to set up the body before you shoot. I don't know why NHL can't do this. And it frustrates the living hell out of me to the point of where I don't even play the game every night anymore. I can drop this game for weeks and never come back to it or get a craving to.

    Yet I have fun with the realistic sliders. Unfortunately the only time I can play them is against the same boring AI which I've learned to exploit after the first couple weeks. Then I do things like tell myself not to use hustle to make it more fun. Then I get bored again.

    For one year could we please use realistic sliders online? As the main setting. Legit.

    You're already killing your fan base so I don't know how it would hurt. No boosted shooting, puck control, cheesy passing mechanics. Just skill.

    And I honestly don't know how you can play online vs. 3 years ago I would spend hundreds of hours playing it and every year after year it becomes more lucky and more lucky to win games. I have played 4 games this year and I'm glad I quit because the one game I lost was against a guy who literally went for hits the entire game and his goalie posted the most unbelievable game. He basically abandoned defense and I couldn't win. But he played with a faster team, abused speed burst and was able to skate past the blue and snipe with no set up snap shots. I knew right then and there it was time to give up on vs.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    We appreciate the replies. But I'm blown away that EA programs the shooting to be higher for the account of 4 minute periods. I highly disagree with that decision. I just don't understand why they go the route of in between a sim and an arcade. It's a sure way to frustrate literally everybody.

    I want for just one year, for EA to use the realistic sliders settings and force the arcadey people to adapt for once. In FIFA, the shooting mechanism is quite realistic. You have to set up the body before you shoot. I don't know why NHL can't do this. And it frustrates the living **** out of me to the point of where I don't even play the game every night anymore. I can drop this game for weeks and never come back to it or get a craving to.

    Yet I have fun with the realistic sliders. Unfortunately the only time I can play them is against the same boring AI which I've learned to exploit after the first couple weeks. Then I do things like tell myself not to use hustle to make it more fun. Then I get bored again.

    For one year could we please use realistic sliders online? As the main setting. Legit.

    You're already killing your fan base so I don't know how it would hurt. No boosted shooting, puck control, cheesy passing mechanics. Just skill.

    And I honestly don't know how you can play online vs. 3 years ago I would spend hundreds of hours playing it and every year after year it becomes more lucky and more lucky to win games. I have played 4 games this year and I'm glad I quit because the one game I lost was against a guy who literally went for hits the entire game and his goalie posted the most unbelievable game. He basically abandoned defense and I couldn't win. But he played with a faster team, abused speed burst and was able to skate past the blue and snipe with no set up snap shots. I knew right then and there it was time to give up on vs.

    Our shot model is also based on how we have broken down real world shooting. Player attributes play a role and so do the physical factors that go into taking a shot. If you are settled and square, you will have much more accuracy than if you are shooting against your momentum at an awkward angle.

    On the Full Sim style setting, each of these factors have a bit more weight but all the factors are still the same and still weigh heavily on the realistic side. Try and take a spin around slapshot against your momentum from out near the point vs settling into a glide in the slot and you will see a huge difference in accuracy.

    The differences between preset 3 and 4 are actually pretty subtle in each sub category but overall, they have an impact on the game as a whole.

    I definitely wouldn't say the default online settings are for 'arcadey people'. From this thread alone, you can see the responses from people who preferred the fun factor of the earlier games and don't find the push for realism to hit that level of fun for them where I have heard from many people like yourself that would like to see it go even further.

    This subjectivity for fun factor isn't unique to us. Look at shooters -- Some people like Call of Duty, some like Battlefield and some like Arma. Or for racing -- Some people like Mario Kart, Some like Forza and some like iRacing.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    We appreciate the replies. But I'm blown away that EA programs the shooting to be higher for the account of 4 minute periods. I highly disagree with that decision. I just don't understand why they go the route of in between a sim and an arcade. It's a sure way to frustrate literally everybody.

    I want for just one year, for EA to use the realistic sliders settings and force the arcadey people to adapt for once. In FIFA, the shooting mechanism is quite realistic. You have to set up the body before you shoot. I don't know why NHL can't do this. And it frustrates the living **** out of me to the point of where I don't even play the game every night anymore. I can drop this game for weeks and never come back to it or get a craving to.

    Yet I have fun with the realistic sliders. Unfortunately the only time I can play them is against the same boring AI which I've learned to exploit after the first couple weeks. Then I do things like tell myself not to use hustle to make it more fun. Then I get bored again.

    For one year could we please use realistic sliders online? As the main setting. Legit.

    You're already killing your fan base so I don't know how it would hurt. No boosted shooting, puck control, cheesy passing mechanics. Just skill.

    And I honestly don't know how you can play online vs. 3 years ago I would spend hundreds of hours playing it and every year after year it becomes more lucky and more lucky to win games. I have played 4 games this year and I'm glad I quit because the one game I lost was against a guy who literally went for hits the entire game and his goalie posted the most unbelievable game. He basically abandoned defense and I couldn't win. But he played with a faster team, abused speed burst and was able to skate past the blue and snipe with no set up snap shots. I knew right then and there it was time to give up on vs.

    I definitely wouldn't say the default online settings are for 'arcadey people'. From this thread alone, you can see the responses from people who preferred the fun factor of the earlier games and don't find the push for realism to hit that level of fun for them where I have heard from many people like yourself that would like to see it go even further.

    Ben, what most of these people are complaining about though is not the general push for realism but mainly the fact that TPS makes controlling their player a chore and thus "less fun". They want more twitchy, responsive controls especially for defense to counter the responsive, twitchy controls players with the puck already enjoy, and they (wrongly) peg it solely on the skating engine.

    I'll say it once again, if you guys set the preset for online games to FULL SIM and thereby tone down the unrealistic agility enjoyed by the players with the puck, you'll see a lot less complaining about the TPS. Trust me...

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Ben, what most of these people are complaining about though is not the general push for realism but mainly the fact that TPS makes controlling their player a chore and thus "less fun". They want more twitchy, responsive controls especially for defense to counter the responsive, twitchy controls players with the puck already enjoy, and they (wrongly) peg it solely on the skating engine.

    I'll say it once again, if you guys set the preset for online games to FULL SIM and thereby tone down the unrealistic agility enjoyed by the players with the puck, you'll see a lot less complaining about the TPS. Trust me...


    Cant disagree with reducing the puck carriers "unrealistic agility" compared to players without the puck.
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • cogsx86
    787 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    Hotjoint wrote: »
    The NHL series isnt fun to play anymore, thats what its come down to. Ea wont give us 100% control of our player. Its frustrating and a chore to play. My team used to be hardcore players, we barely play anymore and it looks like we might stop buying NHL all together.

    Can't wait for COGs and strategg to come in and say "real hockey" and "don't let them shoot from the boards" you know, because these two are hockey experts....

    I mean, the amount of stuff I've learned from these two is amazing. I'll make sure to tell the Prep defensemen I work with thos year to give up the middle of the ice, because we don't want them taking weak wristers from the boards, because those will certainly result in huge rebounds in the middle of our slot. Lol...

    hey can you show me where I can find the clips where a weak wrister from the boards gives a huge rebound into the middle of the slot ?

    I got you COGS, right here. Not just once, but 17 times in a row on weak, unscreened shots.



    I'll be waiting for y'all to tell me how that's exactly where an NHL goalie should be leaving those rebounds, even though I've already demonstrated how easy it is for a goalie to use their stick to knock pucks into the corner. This is something I can do even on some relatively hard shots in real life. If the puck is along the ice and I can track it the whole way, I have a pretty good chance of putting that puck into the corner or to an area I think is safe.

    Fast forward to 3:18, then 5:00 then 7:20, (this one shows exactly what your doing the best) and 10:10


    oh look weak wristers from the side boards, middle of the ice and all over and huge rebounds. Watch the shots that hit Holtbys pads. You guys make me laugh.



    So apparently, your best example is a player taking a shot from between the circles? You're normally better at this COGS. I'm disappointed. By all means, make some GIFs or something of the huge rebounds on shots from the point you're talking about, but it doesn't negate me getting 17 rebound shots in a row on shots that I could direct to the corner in real life.


    https://makeagif.com/0QtlBB

    https://makeagif.com/xQA3RJ

    https://makeagif.com/AGjhOy

    https://makeagif.com/dRIj8j

    https://makeagif.com/oXlmVi

    https://makeagif.com/csCAIT

    https://makeagif.com/F5K90Z

    https://makeagif.com/bGTTLv


    https://makeagif.com/oVEiew
    Post edited by cogsx86 on
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    .
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    What I mean by that is that a defender can understand the different physical conditions and take those into account when defending. They don't need to commit as much when the offensive player isn't as big of a threat to score and can use factors such as incidental contact to their advantage.

    How are we supposed to take physical conditions into account and consistently use incidental contact to our advantage when stuff like this happens all the time? It goes from a 1v3 situation to a goal because the puck carrier makes a literally impossible play, thanks to dragging his stick through my defenseman's body with no impact at all, and a puck that stays magically magnetized to his stick.


    It is definitely tough to see bugs like this. Incidental contact should have made the puck come free and forced him to play a pickup. However, I wouldn't suggest to rely on incidental contact in a situation like this -- the player should have played the body instead. Incidental contact will be more effective if you occupy space and the player tries to get through you rather than skating through the stick since it doesn't displace the stick and the puck will keep going when it comes free.

    That said, the puck should have been free in this clip but even so, the only difference is that Lucic would have played a puck pickup since we don't move the stick with incidental stick contact, we just make sure the puck comes free.

    When I talk about the game, I am not saying that you can't find clips where there are bugs. I am just saying from personal experience and a lot of testing that we improved numerous situations quite a lot when it comes to incidental contact and I believe that having it on is far better for defenders than not, despite there being issues, such as the one in your video, where it doesn't work as intended. The defender can still play the game as if they only have body checking and pokechecks if they wish and treat incidental contact as a bonus and offensive players will still be at more of an advantage if they deke in such a way that doesn't rely on bugs in incidental contact detection.

    Personally, I use incidental contact as a tool quite a bit though.





    "Bugs like this"??? This is the game online. I completely agree with Bmh. Traffic yields this sort of garbage all the time for the puck carrier. Physics is a pull of the slot machine in this game (along with way too many other things), and "should have made the puck come free" could be your slogan ... followed by "try to 'play a pickup'" on defense.
  • cogsx86
    787 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    lllll
    Post edited by cogsx86 on
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • Yes, very appreciative for NHLDev to spend some time here, breath of fresh air to get feedback.

    I would like to continue the discussion of fun factor of the old games NHL 12 and before vs. NHL 13 and beyond.

    As you can see with other posts there are still quite a few old schoolers hanging around, and that is the point, most of them would not have left if the game was more fun to play. It sounds silly I know, its just a game, but man it was such a fun game!!!!! back then.

    The responsiveness is exactly the issue with NHL 13 and beyond, I believe this is all on TPS. Love the concept of TPS but where the wheels fall off is this is not real life first person perspective where you calculate your next move in real time to adjust for momentum ,etc. instead its a video game with 6 inch tall characters in 3rd person, you can't judge special awareness in real time accurately enough to account for momentum, etc. you end up jamming the controller in the direction you want/need to go and you get caught against momentum, stuck in mud, etc. because of a quick second decision based on space closing down on the ice on a tv screen. Also, any kind of latency (regardless of who's fault) that compounds the non responsiveness issue.

    Point is, regardless of the try hards boasting how they have "mastered TPS" nobody can in reality, some are better than others, too many variables = many mistakes per game.

    This all comes down to being a video game, games are supposed to be fun, since NHL 13 and TPS games have been a stress out grind, pushing on and jamming controllers harder and harder trying to get your skater to react or speed up, etc.

    I would suggest, like when you came out with Legacy, please consider releasing an EASHL only game based on NHL 12 and earlier skating engine, in fact if you could remake NHL 11 on next gen for EASHL only mode would be ideal as that was a great year/game.

    EA has a great opportunity here to have a test subject year, case study, laboratory trials per say to release a game one time using old skating engine, now after playing NHL 13,14,15,16,17 you would have a great sample size to determine the reaction to this old gen remake to determine if there was new buzz and new excitement generated to redefine the direction of the game.

    Its not always about being complex with more bells and whistles, it can be just about fun.
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    Hotjoint wrote: »
    The NHL series isnt fun to play anymore, thats what its come down to. Ea wont give us 100% control of our player. Its frustrating and a chore to play. My team used to be hardcore players, we barely play anymore and it looks like we might stop buying NHL all together.

    Can't wait for COGs and strategg to come in and say "real hockey" and "don't let them shoot from the boards" you know, because these two are hockey experts....

    I mean, the amount of stuff I've learned from these two is amazing. I'll make sure to tell the Prep defensemen I work with thos year to give up the middle of the ice, because we don't want them taking weak wristers from the boards, because those will certainly result in huge rebounds in the middle of our slot. Lol...

    hey can you show me where I can find the clips where a weak wrister from the boards gives a huge rebound into the middle of the slot ?

    I got you COGS, right here. Not just once, but 17 times in a row on weak, unscreened shots.



    I'll be waiting for y'all to tell me how that's exactly where an NHL goalie should be leaving those rebounds, even though I've already demonstrated how easy it is for a goalie to use their stick to knock pucks into the corner. This is something I can do even on some relatively hard shots in real life. If the puck is along the ice and I can track it the whole way, I have a pretty good chance of putting that puck into the corner or to an area I think is safe.

    Fast forward to 3:18, then 5:00 then 7:20, (this one shows exactly what your doing the best) and 10:10


    oh look weak wristers from the side boards, middle of the ice and all over and huge rebounds. Watch the shots that hit Holtbys pads. You guys make me laugh.



    So apparently, your best example is a player taking a shot from between the circles? You're normally better at this COGS. I'm disappointed. By all means, make some GIFs or something of the huge rebounds on shots from the point you're talking about, but it doesn't negate me getting 17 rebound shots in a row on shots that I could direct to the corner in real life.

    GIFs
    https://makeagif.com/xQA3RJ
    Can't really tell how high that shot was. Probably hit the high part of the pad, and I'm alright with that. Pretty much all of the shots I showed were along the ice though

    https://makeagif.com/0QtlBB
    https://makeagif.com/AGjhOy
    Surprise, a goalie in a rapid-fire drill doesn't always get set for the next shot. This is completely different from the predictable wristers like the ones I showed.

    https://makeagif.com/dRIj8j
    https://makeagif.com/oXlmVi
    https://makeagif.com/csCAIT
    https://makeagif.com/F5K90Z
    https://makeagif.com/bGTTLv
    https://makeagif.com/oVEiew
    Wow, shots from the high slot and closer can generate rebounds! We already knew that, and I have no problem with a team generating rebounds from those positions. It's when a player is literally touching the boards at the point and anything he puts on net will generate a rebound. For a number of the shots I took, I wasn't even using RS to wind up on the shot.

    I feel like you're trying to turn my argument into saying that all rebounds should be tuned down, but that's not at all what I'm trying to say. My problem is that rebounds don't get much less likely when the position and shot speed get worse. Dumping garbage shots on net because you can't beat the defender shouldn't reward the team with a loose puck in the slot so consistently as if you were taking one-timers from the slot that the goalie.
  • why do you respond to this troll??? he seriously just wasted time making gifs of guys shooting during warmup. that immediately should tell you everything you need to know... he's a joke not to be taken serious.
  • he is just trying to get you tube views :lol:

    something really needs to be done about the players having a bubble that deflects/stops hit entirely from very physical and agressive builds. I know this is goalie thread but this will help them too.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    trust us when we tell you, TPS hurt the game and the fan base. at the very least, it had alienated anyone who had somewhat mastered the 09-12 years. there was no motivation to keep playing since no one really asked for a new skating engine in the first place. personally, i just spend that time i used to dedicate for NHL on other games now like GTA or whatever new shooter is out.

    I definitely get the point about people who had mastered the game during those years. That said, there were a lot of people that complained about figure skaters and a new skating engine should be a welcome addition to a hockey game. It is always a risk to advance core tech in your game but I think that is something teams should always be looking to do where it makes sense. The decision to move to a new skating engine was decided before I started on gameplay so I can't take credit for that call but the majority of my job with skating that year was to figure out how the new skating engine, the tuning, etc. was going to fix issues people had with the old skating model -- accountability was a big part. I think it is great that pivots are actually a part of the game and that you can manage your gap by understanding when to skate forwards and pivot to backskating and that you then need to choose when to pivot and commit rather than just sliding sideways across your skates. Sure there are places where it can be better but that was the case with the old model as well which had hit some limitations to advance further.

    Overall, it brought fresh life to the series and some people adapted and embraced the change and others as you mentioned decided that they didn't have that mastery anymore and moved on rather than seeing it as another piece they could master above their competition.

    We have snipers but if shooting people with guns is what you are after, I am not sure any skating engine will make a difference there.
    The issue isn't the fact that the game changed and people had to relearn the skating aspect of it.

    The issue was, and still is, control. The game FELT great to play in 'the glory days'. The issues that came with TPS were, and still are to this day, 100% about control and the way the game FEELS to play.

    TPS makes the game FEEL clunky, and has since it was introduced. You can make the best game ever made but if it FEELS clunky you will alienate a lot of players.

    This is the most important aspect of every single video game ever made. The control and the FEEL. NHL has FELT clunky/bad to play since TPS.

    The clunky/bad feeling of control in this game is the #1 reason why people dislike it and are playing it less and less.

    People don't need customization and all that jazz in EASHL, although it is great can't argue that. EASHL could be the most basic and bare bones mode and people would play it all year if the CONTROL and FEEL of the game was good again.

    Look at a game like rocket league. Super simple, super high skill ceiling, and it FEELS great to play. Imagine if you had to constantly tap LT in order to orient your car in the direction you want, and it would still sometimes spin out of control. That is what NHL is like since TPS.

    Make NHL FEEL great to skate and control your player again and 95% of the remaining issues become minor annoyances that you can chip away at in the coming years.
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    The issue isn't the fact that the game changed and people had to relearn the skating aspect of it.

    The issue was, and still is, control. The game FELT great to play in 'the glory days'. The issues that came with TPS were, and still are to this day, 100% about control and the way the game FEELS to play.

    TPS makes the game FEEL clunky, and has since it was introduced. You can make the best game ever made but if it FEELS clunky you will alienate a lot of players.

    This is the most important aspect of every single video game ever made. The control and the FEEL. NHL has FELT clunky/bad to play since TPS.

    The clunky/bad feeling of control in this game is the #1 reason why people dislike it and are playing it less and less.

    People don't need customization and all that jazz in EASHL, although it is great can't argue that. EASHL could be the most basic and bare bones mode and people would play it all year if the CONTROL and FEEL of the game was good again.

    Look at a game like rocket league. Super simple, super high skill ceiling, and it FEELS great to play. Imagine if you had to constantly tap LT in order to orient your car in the direction you want, and it would still sometimes spin out of control. That is what NHL is like since TPS.

    Make NHL FEEL great to skate and control your player again and 95% of the remaining issues become minor annoyances that you can chip away at in the coming years.

    This sums up why most people are quitting the game, couldn't of really said it better myself.

  • Zeroshift wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    The issue isn't the fact that the game changed and people had to relearn the skating aspect of it.

    The issue was, and still is, control. The game FELT great to play in 'the glory days'. The issues that came with TPS were, and still are to this day, 100% about control and the way the game FEELS to play.

    TPS makes the game FEEL clunky, and has since it was introduced. You can make the best game ever made but if it FEELS clunky you will alienate a lot of players.

    This is the most important aspect of every single video game ever made. The control and the FEEL. NHL has FELT clunky/bad to play since TPS.

    The clunky/bad feeling of control in this game is the #1 reason why people dislike it and are playing it less and less.

    People don't need customization and all that jazz in EASHL, although it is great can't argue that. EASHL could be the most basic and bare bones mode and people would play it all year if the CONTROL and FEEL of the game was good again.

    Look at a game like rocket league. Super simple, super high skill ceiling, and it FEELS great to play. Imagine if you had to constantly tap LT in order to orient your car in the direction you want, and it would still sometimes spin out of control. That is what NHL is like since TPS.

    Make NHL FEEL great to skate and control your player again and 95% of the remaining issues become minor annoyances that you can chip away at in the coming years.

    This sums up why most people are quitting the game, couldn't of really said it better myself.
    Without a doubt this is 100% the biggest issue with NHL since TPS.

    Imagine rocket league FELT like your car had a flat tire or you were driving on a rim the whole time, even though you weren't.. It would not be a successful game.

    This is what NHL is like since TPS. It simply doesn't FEEL good to play. Solve this issue of FEEL and control and you instantly have a good game again.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev

    Please respond to the non-responsiveness/poor control complaint of this game please.

    This is real, not made up....

    Rocket League is a good example by the way.
  • EVerk81
    164 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Question for NHLDev.

    Love the conversation about NHL 12 for example, here is many old schooler complaint. NHL 09, 10, 11, and 12 the EASHL community and leagues were off the charts. It was never more fun to play this game back then. There was something so right with how the game played, it was just flat out fun to play!!! Since NHL 13 and the implementation of TPS (the birth of sim), ever since year by year the EASHL community has suffered greatly as fewer players from previous years came back, year by year they gave up on the game as EASHL just isn't as fun as it used to be. My question is you have to realize this, yes? That EASHL has lost it's flair/fun? The days of Kontenders, white knights, fearless, composure, ninth wonder, cross crease cheese, unbreakable cycle, reservoir dogs, and countless other top clubs and all their members played religiously day in day out all year round until the next years game came out, then repeat another year. Something happened at NHL 13, the game became less fun, (more real) but less fun.

    What is EA's stance on bringing this fun back to EASHL??? Please don't tell me its gone forever and you aren't bringing it back, it was a noble attempt to redirect the game to a sim, but you lost the fun factor. I understand there are people who like the game as is, but I can tell you as someone who's played the 09/10,11,12 year games and kept playing 13,14,15,16,17 and I'm not telling you something you don' t already know, this game does not have the fan following it once had, not even close, it was a cult, addicted NHL EASHL players 4 to 6 hours a day/night, every day. This is not the case anymore, doesn't EA want that fan dedication back?

    Please explain in terms of fun factor from old school to new school, thanks..

    Yes, it is an interesting debate. It is easy to draw a line in the sand there as that is when the game changed the most. However, it is hard to say if EASHL for those particular teams was still building in popularity in 12 still and just fell off in 13 or if it had already declined. I mean, we can look at the telemetry and we do, but trying to just talk on a high level here.

    When the game changes, it is going to appeal to different crowds in nature. However, the glory days of something can purely be when something is brand new as well. It is definitely our goal that all of our community likes the next game as much or more than the last as well as bringing in new players to the community. I remember a lot of complaints back then though that have been addressed in the changes made -- the grass can be greener looking back but I am not sure it isn't the changes in gameplay alone that necessarily lead to some players playing less games than they once did.

    This isn't me passing the blame and saying it isn't gameplay since our main job here is to continue to make the game as great as we can and conversations and comments like this definitely get noticed.

    As a side note though, you may even want to look at outside telemetry such as how many hours a week someone has for videogames over an 8 year span of their life. It may just be different teams these days that can put in the same hours as those original teams from NHL 09 and it could be that those teams spend more time on twitter and snapshot to communicate with each other than us old school guys do on forums. Kinda joking but there is some truth to it.

    The bottom line, regardless of year is that fun is subjective. We see it within our game changer discussions in terms of what is important to work on next, how people would tune the player classes, etc.

    trust us when we tell you, TPS hurt the game and the fan base. at the very least, it had alienated anyone who had somewhat mastered the 09-12 years. there was no motivation to keep playing since no one really asked for a new skating engine in the first place. personally, i just spend that time i used to dedicate for NHL on other games now like GTA or whatever new shooter is out.

    Asking a Dev to "trust us" that the TPS is broken and useless is, in fact, useless. Proof is in the sales. I highly doubt they monitor online-user activity, but the clearest way for the Devs to see the game failing to sustain it's fan-base over the last eight-nine years is to look at the sale numbers.

    Guaranteed there's been a HUGE drop in sales since the inception of the Next Gen consoles. Doesn't mean EA profits have dwindled because as far as I know HuT packs bring in a ton of profits.
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