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Human Goalie Issues/Additions for NHL 18/NHL 17 Patches

jonlolol
151 posts Game Changer
This is just my opinion on what needs to be fixed and what the priorities should be. That doesn't hold any more weight than your opinion, so please give your feedback or post anything significant I missed.

There are a couple of my own personal ideas mixed in here and a lot of your great ideas mixed in here (i love the goalie precision movement speed slider suggestion, genius).

Again, these are just my thoughts and none of this is guaranteed to be fixed or put in the game, but some of this is possible for any future patches if there are any.

Excuse the grammatical and spelling errors: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jo-lGu0Y-9Glrv9ZYeUgsnb40fRwfY4I9vIxXEGlH8g/edit?usp=sharing

Replies

  • I agree with most. I think goalies should get sniped on good shots in good positions (unless they overplay it and it can hit a shoulder or something). However not with the ridiculous accuracy shooters have now with terrible shooting angles resulting in picked corners every time. Less than half of shots in the NHL are very accurate corner picked shots.

    I want to be able to be sniped if I don't play aggressive enough to have the shoulder get on the puck. If a player picks a corner from high slot, that should be rewarded. About one in five goalies will stop that puck and it's usually because they're aggressive enough to cut off angles.

    I want a game that rewards you for being aggressive and kills you for not being aggressive.

    But that means that we need rebound control. This is the worst year ever for rebound control. By far. Fix it. Add in animations for it. Slow shots result in nothing plays in the NHL. Make that in the game.

    Also, slow down pass speed or make pass reception ease on bullet passes lowered significantly. You lower pass speed and shooter accuracy, then lower goalie reaction speed. It will make a beautiful game.

    And obviously fix the bugs and cover puck animations
  • jonlolol
    151 posts Game Changer
    One thing to add to the list is rebound control as you said – it ties in with goalie tracking the puck. I fly to the top corner of my crease when I use the RS on rebounds.

    It's good to get an idea. A lot of stuff has been beaten to death already so most of the issues are know, but sometimes its nice to just tidy it up into a list.
  • Add differentiation of goalie classes please
  • stevey1219
    36 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Here is a post I made on poke checks for goalies:

    "Not sure if this has been touched on much but I believe giving human goalies the ability to move and make saves while using the manual poke check (not the diving one) would go a very long way with helping give us the tools to make better plays when players are near us. It would be like how players can now continue skating while using a poke check. This could be used on breakaways, inclose dekes, to poke the puck away from in front of us, block cross ice passes, ect."


    Also a note to be discussed for tips. Human goalies never react to a tip (in game), like ever, they don't adjust their save animation even on 2mph shots that get tipped unlike in the NHL where at least they react to them (doesn't mean they save them all the time). Also I have seen maybe 1-3 tips ever in this game get tipped wide of the net, if it is getting tipped it should not be hitting the net 99.9% of the time.

    Another note which was kind of touched on was bad animations. In particular ones where your goalie makes 80's type standup saves even when you are holding the butterfly button/trigger to go down and the animations where your goalie moves a limb inwards then back out, often times moving their glove, blocker, pad, ect. out of the way of the puck.

    *I should not that 6v6 high level play is not balanced well ATM and this causes problems for goalies. Puck control and shot accuracy from bad angles are way to high compared to the defensive and I guess goalie tools we are given, this results in scoring chances that would otherwise never happen, for example the whole holding the puck out along the boards (stick goes in through the boards and somehow they can still control the puck while using their body to protect it) until someone A.) hits you B.) pokes you or C.) board plays you (best solution ATM). The problem here is that even after the latest tuner update A and B both result in the person being checked getting the puck back 9/10 times because they either fall on the puck, basically covering it until they get up and retrieve it again, or they simply start the pick up animation before the defender finishes their poke check, hit, ect.
  • jonlolol
    151 posts Game Changer
    Add differentiation of goalie classes please

    This was sort of hinted at this with the positional vs athletic goalies. I think it's time to move on from hybrid/standup/butterfly, but yeah a little bit of differentiation would be nice if we keep them.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    I can add a few things:
    • Goalie Interference: There aren't enough calls being made when players ram into the goalie. Goals being called back on interference are a bit better, but goalies are pushed around too often without any repercussions. Also, since we are no longer allowed to defend ourselves against players that come into contact or harass us after the whistle, I'd like to see some type of deterrent system put in place for players that like to hit/slash/shoot at the goalie after the play is whistled dead. I was thinking of putting "tokens" on players that do this and after they accumulate a certain number of them (3 to 5 tokens should do it), they get a penalty. After the game, the tokens reset.
    • Save Success Modifier/Penalty System: Right now the system seems to work on if a goalie is set versus if he is in movement. So moving, even if only a very small distance, gives the goalie a penalty on his save success while standing still boosts it. I'd like to see a slightly more fair system where positioning relative to the net + shot angle will reward goalies that know how to be in position and cover their angles (whether they are set or moving) and punish goalies that don't by either staying too deep in their net or play too aggressive (thus NOT covering their angle or positioning correctly).
    • Cross-Grain Saves: Ever since the pre-release update I have yet to see goalies make saves against the grain. Players are able to snipe us by shooting cross-grain. Why can't goalies make saves that way too? Goalie can move one way and make a save towards the other side. I see it all the time. Heck, I used to do it all the time myself. Granted, controlling the rebound (unless I somehow scooped it into my trapper) was difficult and i'd likely set myself up for a juicy rebound goal. But I'd be able to make the 1st save at least.
    • Goalie Classes Attributes: I would like to see the class attributes reworked to make more sense. Butterfly class should have mid range REFLEXES, high PUCK CONTROL and low ATHLETICS. Hybrid Class should have high REFLEXES, mid range PUCK CONTROL and mid range ATHLETICS. Stand Up Class should have mid range REFLEXES, low PUCK CONTROL and high ATHLETICS. The rest of the attribute modifiers should stay the same as they are (high/low coverage, vision, aggression, etc).
    • Stick Saves on weaker shots: Goalies in this game don't use their stick often enough, especially on weaker shots, to redirect them towards the corners or on to his upper body. This would help reduce the number of juicy rebounds given, especially on lower quality shots.

    That's all I can think of for the moment.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Ran across this issue for the first time last night:

    http://xboxclips.com/TheCreaseTV/f0d116f5-a212-488d-9922-6ed779b5416b

    http://xboxclips.com/TheCreaseTV/f0d116f5-a212-488d-9922-6ed779b5416b

    On the 2nd clip, it was a pass towards me rather than a shot like in the 1st clip, but a goalie should NEVER try to play the puck with his stick standing up like that near the net. Ever! Luckily only the first instance resulted in a goal, the only goal I gave up in the entire game... so much for my SO bid.
  • I would like for us to be able to choose 2 stances that we can switch to during a game. Toggle between stances. A larger stance should affect every aspect of the position. Meaning, during a post hug, the far side pad should be close to the far side post than the current stance. Would make it alot harder to snipe lower corners, but should make us more vulnerable to high shots.

    Paddle down needs to be reconfigured. I would suggest RS down, but coupled with the butterfly button. Sometimes we want to press say 7 o'clock to slide back and sideways, but the position of the RS is slightly off so goalie does a paddle down instead of a slide. Even pressing at 6 o'clock we should get a more aggressive slide back into our crease on the RS.
  • I would like for us to be able to choose 2 stances that we can switch to during a game. Toggle between stances. A larger stance should affect every aspect of the position. Meaning, during a post hug, the far side pad should be close to the far side post than the current stance. Would make it alot harder to snipe lower corners, but should make us more vulnerable to high shots.

    Paddle down needs to be reconfigured. I would suggest RS down, but coupled with the butterfly button. Sometimes we want to press say 7 o'clock to slide back and sideways, but the position of the RS is slightly off so goalie does a paddle down instead of a slide. Even pressing at 6 o'clock we should get a more aggressive slide back into our crease on the RS.

    That's a good idea. Heck... I'd like to be able to back up to the goal line and not have a damned force-field push me about 1 foot away from it and slide me left or right when I push against it. Same when I try to come out to challenge a breakaway, there's a force-field about 2 feet in front of the crease which, again, slides me left or right when I push up against it.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I would like for us to be able to choose 2 stances that we can switch to during a game. Toggle between stances. A larger stance should affect every aspect of the position. Meaning, during a post hug, the far side pad should be close to the far side post than the current stance. Would make it alot harder to snipe lower corners, but should make us more vulnerable to high shots.

    Paddle down needs to be reconfigured. I would suggest RS down, but coupled with the butterfly button. Sometimes we want to press say 7 o'clock to slide back and sideways, but the position of the RS is slightly off so goalie does a paddle down instead of a slide. Even pressing at 6 o'clock we should get a more aggressive slide back into our crease on the RS.

    That's a good idea. Heck... I'd like to be able to back up to the goal line and not have a damned force-field push me about 1 foot away from it and slide me left or right when I push against it. Same when I try to come out to challenge a breakaway, there's a force-field about 2 feet in front of the crease which, again, slides me left or right when I push up against it.

    I asked 3 times why there is still that wall at the goal line. NEVER got a response. Pretty weird if you ask me. Makes me think they have no clue why it's there, or how to get rid of it...
  • It's pretty blatant it's there. I mean... All you have to do is push your goalie against the net and see how you're always about a foot away from the goal line. Same with when you come out of your crease, keep pushing forward and you'll hit an invisible wall.

    So annoying...
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    It's pretty blatant it's there. I mean... All you have to do is push your goalie against the net and see how you're always about a foot away from the goal line. Same with when you come out of your crease, keep pushing forward and you'll hit an invisible wall.

    So annoying...

    Yea. Too bad it doesn't favor short side sniping :pensive:
  • What's funny about that (actually, it's kinda sad) is that standing still as a goalie nearly beats all types of shots. Cross-Grain B S shot from the point? Just stand perfectly still and your goalie will stop 100% of those. Then another mook from the other team comes along and tries the same thing, as if saying "Obviously the other guy didn't do it right, here's how you do it!"

    Nope... I'm standing perfectly still at the top of my crease. Shot saved! And again, and again, and again... It's like watching a merry-go-round full of mentally challenged baboons taking turns flinging their poo at you.

    It's exasperating! :disappointed:
  • One problem I'm having is I face less than 10 shots a game offline with the minutes set to 5 and the Ai set to all star
  • It is difficult to tune goalies' abilities to reflect real life because as of right now, defense doesn't have the autonomy to reliably play zone defense (whether it's stopping passes with skates,being able to strafe and follow the puck carrier without a lot of fussing, etc.) in a way that reflects real life defense. It's all different. If you want to make slot shots say, reliably go in around 35% of the time, shots off the rush (snipes) to go in more, no one wants blow outs. At least I don't.

    A problem that urgently needs to be fixed are plays near posts. It's a neverending issue. I have a few suggestions that I think (may) be possible to implement.

    Firstly, butterfly post-hug's seal needs to be refined and the animations need to be expanded. Whether it's shrugging your shoulders up on a sharp-angle shot, a reliable poke check to stop those guys who try to cut from the post to the middle to get a far-side shot (seriously, RVH is supposed to be good for regulating rebounds reliably and giving you an easy way to free up your stick to prevent low-to-high passes and cuts towards the net) and I've found when you are trying to get to your post and someone shoots before you are there, you use the post-hug animations which prevents your ability to stop anything on the side you were trying to hug, which seems counter-intuitive. Post-hug anims need to happen when you're on your post, nowhere else.

    Secondly, goalies need to use their elbows and arms more in animations to stop high shots, and I think the reason this hasn't happened is for some reason EA has made goalie anims without chest protectors on. This drastically changes coverage and the way the goalie reacts, which might also explain why the glove saves in this game look weird. We need a reliable smother on shots to the chest/near the pants to prevent rebounds, and more saves in general that make use of the fact that chest/arm protectors cover more space. Goalies in EA NHL seem to play small. MORE GOALIE ANIMATIONS PLEASE.

    This unrelated suggestion might be really idealistic and I'm guessing it'd take a -lot- of coding but I'd like for them at some point to make save anims that work purely with momentum and cooperate with where you're moving, instead of making you stop. Goalies generally open up when they're moving and at the same time are very good at covering a lot of space in less than a second because of the fact they fluidly push and extend limbs before a shot is taken as a form of block. The R3-stick, basically, but it needs expanding on and the manner of the push needs to change depending on where the expected shooter is relative to them. So for example, if you're going for a cross crease you'll almost try a splits to anchor to the other post, raising your glove/blocker to cover as much net as you could. Then you'd raise/lower glove/blocker to react to the shot taken, whether it's sealing below the armpit, trying to stop it from sneaking over the pad...

    Here's a few desperation saves that look a little different but kind of get at what I mean. The important thing is playing to where the intended pass is, which is currently difficult and probably shouldn't be. So if a guy passes and you press your R3, your movement and fluid save should take into account where it anticipates the shooter will be when he shoots, with where you move your R3-stick affecting your path towards squaring up to the shooter, so that it adds some skill to it (depending on where they are, pushing diagonally up may increase chances of saving by covering more of the net aggressively, moving diagonally back when you're already aggressive and the shooter is on the backdoor makes the save more of a slide-to-post desperation save, etc)
    A really long-winded explanation, I know, but I guess my point is, we need modernized desperation saves, damnit. The game especially on the goalie-side needs to look more like the modern game in all of its' glory, and one of the big draws to the game are the acrobatic, unreal splits saves that goalies routinely make during the course of games. With how the game is moving to Threes at least for an E-Sports excitement aspect, I think the goalies need to look exciting as well while staying true to the position.
    Twitter: @RileyMiner
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