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EA Dev, TPS needs to be better or else this game will never reach potential

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  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Calling it now, in 2 more years the ice rink won't be wide enough for our players to turn around on, we will have to do a 3 point turn whenever we want to change what end of the ice we are skating towards. At least they broke vision control to allow us to skate in reverse when we end up having to do those 3 point turns, ea was thinking ahead

    Let's be real here, It isn't getting worse..

    They've tried to address it the last couple years and haven't succeeded but it has been an improvement, a slight one but an improvement nonetheless.

    So in other words it is better than it was, eh bud? o:)

    I would say skating is mildly better than it was the last couple of years. But it still feels worse to me than it did on last-gen. And I think one of the real frustrations here, given the massive increase in processing power in the new consoles, is that so little progress has been made.

  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Calling it now, in 2 more years the ice rink won't be wide enough for our players to turn around on, we will have to do a 3 point turn whenever we want to change what end of the ice we are skating towards. At least they broke vision control to allow us to skate in reverse when we end up having to do those 3 point turns, ea was thinking ahead

    Let's be real here, It isn't getting worse..

    They've tried to address it the last couple years and haven't succeeded but it has been an improvement, a slight one but an improvement nonetheless.

    So in other words it is better than it was, eh bud? o:)

    I would say skating is mildly better than it was the last couple of years. But it still feels worse to me than it did on last-gen. And I think one of the real frustrations here, given the massive increase in processing power in the new consoles, is that so little progress has been made.

    Ya i'd probly agree old gen tps felt a little better, but I haven't played old gen in 3 years so I can't say for certain anymore.

    We are new gen now old gen is irrelevant anyway. I don't think processing power has anything to do with making slow movements/pivots/facing/strafing feel good. If done right they could make these things feel good even on 360/ps3.

    These aspects of tps have certainly improved since the jump with 15 but those improvements are almost negligible due to the state of failure these things still remain in.
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Calling it now, in 2 more years the ice rink won't be wide enough for our players to turn around on, we will have to do a 3 point turn whenever we want to change what end of the ice we are skating towards. At least they broke vision control to allow us to skate in reverse when we end up having to do those 3 point turns, ea was thinking ahead

    Let's be real here, It isn't getting worse..

    They've tried to address it the last couple years and haven't succeeded but it has been an improvement, a slight one but an improvement nonetheless.

    So in other words it is better than it was, eh bud? o:)

    I would say skating is mildly better than it was the last couple of years. But it still feels worse to me than it did on last-gen. And I think one of the real frustrations here, given the massive increase in processing power in the new consoles, is that so little progress has been made.

    Ya i'd probly agree old gen tps felt a little better, but I haven't played old gen in 3 years so I can't say for certain anymore.

    We are new gen now old gen is irrelevant anyway. I don't think processing power has anything to do with making slow movements/pivots/facing/strafing feel good. If done right they could make these things feel good even on 360/ps3.

    These aspects of tps have certainly improved since the jump with 15 but those improvements are almost negligible due to the state of failure these things still remain in.

    Agreed. The new gen consoles horsepower has nothing to do with it. TPS just isn't tuned properly and overall does feel like a mess, unless you have the puck. Then all the auto animations kick in and you can dangle for days. Even goalies feel extremely horrible, clunky, and cumbersome.
  • giphy.gif
    Just look at this video. Look at that dam player. How is this acceptable? Its been like that for 5 years now..

    Facing the play properly/strafing/t-pushing isn't a hard thing to do in hockey. 10 year old house league kids can do these things.

    Can you actually control your skater enough to avoid this? You bet you can. But it FEELS like a chore. It FEELS clunky.

    It's probly one of the worst things you can have in a video game, clunky/chore like feeling control.
  • This old geezer agrees with mr ot's post 100%..........best post you ve ever made in my opinion sir!
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    img]https://media.giphy.com/media/g5PfodSV76F0Y/giphy.gif[/img]
    Just look at this video. Look at that dam player. How is this acceptable? Its been like that for 5 years now..

    Facing the play properly/strafing/t-pushing isn't a hard thing to do in hockey. 10 year old house league kids can do these things.


    Obviously we've been talking about this for the last 3 years -- in NHL 15, AI players constantly turned their backs on their play, particularly in the offensive zone. And in all that time, I've never really understood why it's so hard to get it right. I mean, look at that clip. Why doesn't he simply pivot to the left when he skates into the slot, and then pivot back to the right as the puck moves up and to the left point? It's such a basic part of skating.
  • Wonder why Ben hasn't come in here and responded hmmm B)
  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Ryujinsum wrote: »
    Wonder why Ben hasn't come in here and responded hmmm B)

    You never see him in posts like this

    Never say never. I read the majority of the posts. I have told you guys before that your voices are heard regardless if I post in every topic or not.

    There isn't much need in me jumping in to write down the things I personally see that could be improved from the video because we do that all day at work anyways.

    You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence.




  • djevulsk
    76 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Ryujinsum wrote: »
    Wonder why Ben hasn't come in here and responded hmmm B)

    You never see him in posts like this

    Never say never. I read the majority of the posts. I have told you guys before that your voices are heard regardless if I post in every topic or not.

    There isn't much need in me jumping in to write down the things I personally see that could be improved from the video because we do that all day at work anyways.

    You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence.




    I guess its not just about getting your opinion on the matter, its about if this will be solved for the game and is something that the development team is actually looking into.

    Many can have thoughts/opinions of things, but if there is no action to enforce it, its not very relevant to the game either.

    Like you say "You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence." .. sure, but what is the development team doing about it? Will it be fixed? Has it been planned into your patch-development cycle?
  • NHLDev we all appreciate you coming on and responding, especially when the game is being criticized. We know this is your day job and you take pride in your work so it is likely difficult to not respond with less than kind words sometimes.

    Given all that, please try and convey to whoever it needs to be conveyed to that the skating engine simply does not provide a fun gaming experience. It may be more realistic and true to physics, and that aim is commendable, but when it is at the expense of fun that is a problem in a video game. I am by no means an expert (i'm just some guy), but if the game reverted back to the NHL 12 skating engine and worked from there I guarantee people will be more happy with this game. The rest of the game has gotten a ton better. The TPS engine is holding back the game. It could, and can, be amazing.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Ryujinsum wrote: »
    Wonder why Ben hasn't come in here and responded hmmm B)

    You never see him in posts like this

    Never say never. I read the majority of the posts. I have told you guys before that your voices are heard regardless if I post in every topic or not.

    There isn't much need in me jumping in to write down the things I personally see that could be improved from the video because we do that all day at work anyways.

    You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence.

    Correct. And this problem isn't just for AI, it's for humans too.

    Like I said, you can deal with it and for the most part avoid doing what that AI is doing in the clip, but it just FEELS so clunky and takes way too much effort.

    This is something that should be easy to do and FEEL smooth. It shouldn't FEEL like a chore. Anytime controls in a video game start feeling like a chore, something is terribly wrong. This is one of the worst things you can possibly have.

    We've dealt with this for 5 years now. 1 year of this is unacceptable, but 5? There's no words..

    This is a major aspect of your game that players fight with constantly every single game. Almost every time the puck is being worked around in a teams zone, players off the puck are fighting with this stuff, bad movement/clunkiness.

    There needs to be proper facing the puck/strafing/t-pushing built into TPS. We've had to endure 5 years of these important aspects of skating almost completely missing from the game (I say almost because Precision Skating beginning in 16 was an attempt to solve this issue. No one uses it though because it simply isn't good enough).

    We've had to endure 5 years of this clunkiness. This is easily one of the biggest blunders in NHL series history and I've been playing them since the mid 90's.

    Just look at that herky jerky skating. That crap is probly expected and acceptable during early development of a new 'engine' like TPS, but it has been in your game for 5 years now.

    Absolutely unbelievable this has been allowed to remain in such a state of failure for so long..
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    " You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence."

    We need less pivots on topic, please focus on the terrible "feel" of TPS and how to fix this for EASHL online modes. We are all in agree TPS is more "real", however there is also a large agreement that TPS/skating in general since TPS was introduced has zapped all the fun out of game, NHL DEV, please stay on topic on this very discussion.

    What internal discussions are the developers having about fixing the skating engine so it's more responsive? Please talk about that specific issue, you've read 1,000's of TPS is terrible, game is clunky, a chore posts since NHL 13, you gave it a good run, TPS is advanced cool stuff in theory, but it doesn't and hasn't played well in reality, please address this issue by explaining to the community future direction on control/responsiveness/skating = bring back the fun in this game.

    Thank you.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    " You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence."

    We need less pivots on topic, please focus on the terrible "feel" of TPS and how to fix this for EASHL online modes. We are all in agree TPS is more "real", however there is also a large agreement that TPS/skating in general since TPS was introduced has zapped all the fun out of game, NHL DEV, please stay on topic on this very discussion.

    What internal discussions are the developers having about fixing the skating engine so it's more responsive? Please talk about that specific issue, you've read 1,000's of TPS is terrible, game is clunky, a chore posts since NHL 13, you gave it a good run, TPS is advanced cool stuff in theory, but it doesn't and hasn't played well in reality, please address this issue by explaining to the community future direction on control/responsiveness/skating = bring back the fun in this game.

    Thank you.

    I don't think you're going to get the answer you want on this. Anytime it is discussed we get a drawn out answer that basically comes down to 'we have a specific vision for the game, and it isn't what you want'. We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    "We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?"

    I don't disagree with that, however the voices have never been as loud or as many as now about this topic of "anti TPS", that is progress, that is a movement, that is what we need to inspire EA to finally listen and do something about it.

    NHL DEV said they can tune TPS, why not tune it all the way down to remove as much weight/momentum as possible and let us play like that for one month and get feedback how everyone either enjoyed it or didn't, then go from there.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?"

    I don't disagree with that, however the voices have never been as loud or as many as now about this topic of "anti TPS", that is progress, that is a movement, that is what we need to inspire EA to finally listen and do something about it.

    NHL DEV said they can tune TPS, why not tune it all the way down to remove as much weight/momentum as possible and let us play like that for one month and get feedback how everyone either enjoyed it or didn't, then go from there.
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?"

    I don't disagree with that, however the voices have never been as loud or as many as now about this topic of "anti TPS", that is progress, that is a movement, that is what we need to inspire EA to finally listen and do something about it.

    NHL DEV said they can tune TPS, why not tune it all the way down to remove as much weight/momentum as possible and let us play like that for one month and get feedback how everyone either enjoyed it or didn't, then go from there.

    Since most years this game is a living piece of software that receives a major update in September, there really should be an experimental zone where the devs can release extreme tuner changes to test some stuff out, like what you suggest above, or dropping puck control to 0 or all kinds of things. That way they can test some stuff for the next release. We could play offline or EASHL games with these tuner sets and give feedback.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    Ryujinsum wrote: »
    Wonder why Ben hasn't come in here and responded hmmm B)

    You never see him in posts like this

    Never say never. I read the majority of the posts. I have told you guys before that your voices are heard regardless if I post in every topic or not.

    There isn't much need in me jumping in to write down the things I personally see that could be improved from the video because we do that all day at work anyways.

    You guys are right, the A.I. defender could have looked much better in that sequence.




    I really don't like the way you worded that. To me it seems like your essentially saying yes this play is bad and we'll fix it, that's great. What that also tells me is you aren't going to change the whole cause of these issues aka TPS. I could be wrong but that's what it seems like to me.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?"

    I don't disagree with that, however the voices have never been as loud or as many as now about this topic of "anti TPS", that is progress, that is a movement, that is what we need to inspire EA to finally listen and do something about it.

    NHL DEV said they can tune TPS, why not tune it all the way down to remove as much weight/momentum as possible and let us play like that for one month and get feedback how everyone either enjoyed it or didn't, then go from there.
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "We have had countless threads discussing the issues with the skating and it hasn't been addressed in how many years now?"

    I don't disagree with that, however the voices have never been as loud or as many as now about this topic of "anti TPS", that is progress, that is a movement, that is what we need to inspire EA to finally listen and do something about it.

    NHL DEV said they can tune TPS, why not tune it all the way down to remove as much weight/momentum as possible and let us play like that for one month and get feedback how everyone either enjoyed it or didn't, then go from there.

    Since most years this game is a living piece of software that receives a major update in September, there really should be an experimental zone where the devs can release extreme tuner changes to test some stuff out, like what you suggest above, or dropping puck control to 0 or all kinds of things. That way they can test some stuff for the next release. We could play offline or EASHL games with these tuner sets and give feedback.
    I too don't understand why they aren't a little more experimental.

    August would be a good month to experiment with some different tunings, no one really cares about the game anymore at that point.

  • Agreed that TPS is a problem. Skating is way too clunky and frustrating. The addition of TPS and the new skill stick has removed the creativity and enjoyment from the series for me. No control that you used to have. Always fighting the controls.
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